The latest on Dion Phaneuf, Mike Richards, Taylor Hall, Eric Staal, Johnny Boychuk, Cody Franson, Ryan O’Reilly and more.
Could the Oilers trade Taylor Hall or Jordan Eberle?
SPORTSNET: Elliotte Friedman reports colleague Damien Cox claims the Toronto Maple Leafs have opened contract talks with pendings UFAs Cody Franson and Mike Santorelli. Both could be dealt if new deals cannot be reached before the trade deadline. The Detroit Red Wings seek a top-four defenseman with a right-handed shot and could have interest in Franson…Friedman believes a swap of Dion Phaneuf for Mike Richards makes sense for the Maple Leafs and LA Kings. He thinks the Kings might consider it but not the Leafs at this point. Phaneuf has a list of 12 teams he can be traded to but others could be discussed…Friedman suggests a swap of David Clarkson for Richards but doubts the Kings go for it…The New York Islanders and Johnny Boychuk are discussing a new contract. Boychuk is eligible for UFA status in July…The Vancouver Canucks and defenseman Chris Tanev have started contract talks…The Winnipeg Jets and Michael Frolik’s agent could start contract talks when the Jets travel to Los Angeles…The Edmonton Oilers might not be interested in trading forward Matt Hendricks…The Carolina Hurricanes will make one more attempt to re-sign pending UFAs Andrej Sekera and Jiri Tlusty…Friedman also reports the Oilers, Hurricanes and Arizona Coyotes are unlikely to accept an Eric Lindros-like offer for their first-round picks, which could potentially be first or second overall at this year’s draft…He also believes the Oilers will consider trading Taylor Hall or Jordan Eberle this summer…Friedman’s colleague Jeff Blair doubts Carolina Hurricanes captain Eric Staal will waive his no-movement clause and accept a trade to the Maple Leafs.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: If Franson and/or Santorelli decide they want to test this summer’s UFA market they’ll be traded by the March deadline. The Wings could have interest in Franson but GM Ken Holland has made it clear he’s not overpaying for rental players, so no first- or second-round picks, top prospects like Dylan Larkin or Anthony Mantha and no good young players like Tomas Tatar…I usually respect Friedman’s opinion, but I’m puzzled by his persistent stumping for a Phaneuf-for-Richards deal. Kings GM Dean Lombardi has pointed out he’s got limited cap space, plus he must re-sign notable free agents like Tyler Toffoli, Tanner Pearson and Justin Williams this summer and Anze Kopitar next summer. Adding Phaneuf only eats up precious cap space. And I can’t see the Kings doing a Richards-for-Clarkson swap. There’s no freeing up salary there. Besides, better the devil you know than the one you don’t…Wouldn’t surprise me to see Boychuk re-sign with the Isles, as they’ve become a top team in part because of his presence. I think the Isles are prepared to reward him handsomely…It’s almost impossible in today’s NHL to see “Lindros-like offers”. The league has changed considerably in over twenty years. No way the Oilers, Hurricanes and Coyotes part with their current first-rounders…Unless Hall or Eberle demand to be dealt, trading either guy will be yet another example of how poorly management the Oilers are…Eric Staal is much happier in Carolina than he would be in the hothouse of Toronto.
NICHOLS ON HOCKEY: TSN’s Bob McKenzie believes lots of team will have interest in Carolina Hurricanes defenseman Andrej Sekera if he becomes available by the March trade deadline…He suggests Arizona Coyotes blueliner Zbynek Michalek could make a good rental defenseman for the Tampa Bay Lightning, who just lost Matt Carle to injury for several weeks…McKenzie speculates the Chicago Blackhawks, St. Louis Blues, Montreal Canadiens, Anaheim Ducks and New York Rangers could be suitors for Arizona’s Antoine Vermette…Colleague Darren Dreger doesn’t think the Winnipeg Jets are a fit for Colorado Avalanche forward Ryan O’Reilly.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Like Dreger, I don’t doubt the Jets had early interest in O’Reilly and they do have depth in quality blueliners to offer up, but O’Reilly’s UFA status next summer and the expense to re-sign him probably takes them out of the equation.
OTTAWA CITIZEN: Wayne Scanlan reports Senators GM Bryan Murray has received calls from rival GMs interested in long-time Senators Chris Phillips and Chris Neil, as well as pending UFA blueliner Marc Methot. Murray said there’s nothing imminent and before considering moving Phillips and Neil he would have a long discussion with them first. He also said he’s still seeking a top-six or top-three forward, but discounted his chances of landing Colorado’s Ryan O’Reilly. He remains hopeful of re-signing Methot.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Phillips and Neil won’t land a top-six forward. Neither will Methot. At best Murray might find a rental player. If he seeks a player with more term on his contract it’s going to cost him a good young player of his own, or a top prospect or his first round pick.
ESPN.COM: Pierre LeBrun believes the Pittsburgh Penguins would like to add a fourth-line forward…The New York Rangers seek a bottom-six forward who can play center or wing, and perhaps a depth defenseman. Given the New York Islanders depth, they aren’t expected to make significant moves at the deadline
Nonis won’t trade Clarkson, not because of the contract, but because he is slowly becoming what was hoped from him. Which is a gritty grindy player that battles. Yes the contract dollars is awful, but it is what it is. As for Phaneuf/Richards rumours, that would be entertaining, as both do need a change of scenery. Nonis should be going hard after ROR.
If Nonis can manage to trade Clarkson anywhere for anything he deserves to be considered for GM of the year…good luck Dave.
Never say never. Gomez was unloaded by both the Rangers and Montreal, and his contract was considered untradeable.
Wasn’t unloaded by Montreal, it was bought out.
No, no – Garth Snow WILL be GM of the Year. This is a crazy league you know.
Read yesterday a clarkson for semin trade. Clarkson has more term but less money per year. Semin is a healthy scratch for hurricanes. Doubt it will happen. Also people think the leafs can’t play d or try now imagine if they had semin
This may sound crazy but I make that deal all day long if Im the Leafs….if the Canes would take Clarkson, try Semin out for a year if he doesnt work out buy out the last 2 years for far less than the bonus money included to the cap hit if buying out buying out Clarkson… 2/3s of 7 mil for 4 years for a Semin buyout is better than the 4 years of over 4 mill and then an extra couple years on top of that for Clarkson. In the long run they would rid themselves quicker of Semins deal.
I was thinking the same – 11 goals so far. Didn’t Nonis say he was hoping for 15-20? He’s headed right there…
Still think he needs to do it this year and 15-20 goals next year and then with 5 years left, if the cap goes up significantly, and they hold back some salary then they can trade him for nothing.
Clarkson for Richards? Never happen…Phanuef for Richards? Depends if it’s a deal to dump salary or if the Leafs realistically think Richards will make them better. If they do trade for Richards, my gut says it’s cause they’ve talked to Kadri’s agent and he’s looking for a deal similar to or bigger than Clarkson’s.
I think Stall showed everyone the other night that he has no interest in going to Toronto (at least as long as Phanuef is around). Question is if Sekara has no interest in returning to Colorado, do the Canes have any interest in Phanuef for the long term as he’d be one of the better dmen available.
I think Shanahan needs to be in discussion with Bernier’s agent, and see what Bernier is looking at for a contract. With really only one season as legitimate starter with “elite” numbers (.923%) and a fairly average season so far he hasn’t really earned himself a raise. So if he’s interested in 2yrs @ $3.5/season then resign him. Otherwise he becomes a bluechip trade piece that could return a top prospect or mid/late 1st round pick from a team looking for goaltending. If the Leafs are truly considering a rebuild then Bernier becomes expendable. He could also be the easiest to move of all Leafs at the moment, and would signal that Kessel, Bozak and Phanuef (unless Franson’s contract demands are too high) will probably be playing somewhere else next season.
I like Friedman, he is excellent at his job but the Richards for Phaneuf deal doesn’t work for the Kings at all. He is only looking at it from the Leafs perspective. Let me explain what it looks like from the Kings point of view. First off, the Kings have cap issues right now and moving forward, so how do they justify adding $2+ million more in Phaneuf? what happens if Voynov comes back this year, which is still possible btw. They need to keep cap space around just in case Voynov does come back, not use it up in a Richards/Phaneuf swap. Second, how do you bring in a guy with the reputation Phaneuf has and have him making just as much as Doughty and more than every other Kings player (including Kopitar and Carter), only to have him as a 3-4 d man? Last but not least, remember it was Darryl Sutter who couldn’t wait to get Phaneuf out of the Calgary locker room cause he was a cancer. Phaneuf didn’t get along with anybody including the coach and GM Brent and Darryl Sutter. So I highly doubt Sutter will want him in LA.
And I havn’t even mentioned once his horrible contract, I’m not saying he is a terrible player, just not worth $7 per, more like $5 per. So if I’m the Kings I would rather pay underachieving Richards $5.75 million per than an underachieving Phaneuf $7 mill per.
Sorry Elliot, the only way this makes sense for the Kings is if the Leafs retain salary. And before you Leaf fans try and torch me, I haven’t missed a Kings game in years and know them inside and out, but I also live just outside TO and haven’t missed many Leafs games either.
Well the Kings better do something fast as they are slipping out of a playoff spot and West is a tight race. They need to start putting pucks in the net or they will be sharing golf clubs with the Leafs at the end of regular season.
Well I’m not too worried about it, we have two cups in three years. It’s not like they all forgot how to play hockey, they are tired and beaten up from playing the most games out of any team in the last 3 years. They will be back next year and be a force, no matter what happens this year.
PHANEUF & RICHARDS
You guys have to be more business savvy !!
Phaneuf has more value on the open Market than Richards does.
All Lombardi is looking for is a BUYER!!!!
He then can either flip Phaneuf to a team he has another deal pending with for a different package that may have made better sense with L.A. than it would have with the leafs because of an additional player involved by L.A.
Lombardi does not have to keep Phaneuf and there are teams that want him ….where as the asking price for Phaneuf was to high for the Leafs ….Lombardi can dump him for draft pick and OR prospects ……WITH NO ISSUES WHAT SO EVER …..Lombardi knows this !
Lombardi is a smart cookie
This will never happen.
When was the last time a player who was under performing, paid $7 million plus/per was traded? not once, but twice in a season?
Why would Lombardi even entertain that?
It sounds ridiculous, because it is. The Kings are not going to do you a favor and trade for Phanuef, just to try and peddle him off somewhere else.
Its Lombardi using a better asset to get to the ends of his means …dumping Richards salary and getting an asset that can bring him a better asset back than Richards would have.
This is very plauseable and what Lombardi is think !
For example :
What if Lombardi went to Colorado and said hold on before you trade Orielly Iam getting Phaneuf.
Just say the Leafs are asking for Orielly for Phanuef !
Lombardi can say Iam getting Phaneuf for Richards.
I want 2 second rounders 2014 & 2015 and a depth prospect from the Avs
this allows the AVS to keep Orielly for another deal more important ….they still get Phaneuf and L.A gets $5.5 cap hit off the books ! and moves Phaneuf for a greater trade than they would have been able to get back for Richards .
100% TOTALLY PLA– USEABLE !
Jezus gary, easy on melodramatics please, you make it seem like the guy shouldnt even be in the league…is he over paid? ya but fact is Richards going down the road is no prize either. You and King there make it sound like an overpaid third liner who plays easy minutes and still dosent produce on a good team should be heading to the allstar game. There are a lot of reasons people are not breaki g down Lombardis door for the honor of having such a player on their team…dont kid yourself.
@Shticky
I have never said Phanuef does not deserve to be in the league.
I have asked you before to stop putting words in my mouth, and I am asking you to stop again.
I have stated repeatedly, that Phanuef to LA just does not make any sense to the Kings.
NO team is going to trade for Phanuef and trade him again in a separate, prearranged deal. Players with his contract hit and term aren’t normally traded in season, let alone twice.
I can see Phanuef being traded….it will end up being either for a package…like a pick (not a first) and a lesser prospect with salary being held by Toronto, or for a player with term left, but maybe a few years less.
Any trade involving Phanuef would have to make sense for both sides, and that’s my problem with LA…..he just doesn’t fit into their system/ cap structure…..and I also believe that Sutter and Phanuef have a history that neither would want to revisit.
I know the Kings are against the cap…but I do watch a lot of Kings games as my son is a huge fan. The Kings had their chance to get rid of Richards for nothing but money, and they passed. Bad move? Good move? I don’t know…but I just don’t see how Phanuef helps the Kings with their cap issues.
Can we all just agree that there is no permutation of this trade that works? I don’t see how Richards falls into the plans for Toronto and I don’t see how Dion’ salary works for LA.
Considering the Kings had their chance to get rid of Richards and they passed and are now up against the cap, are borderline ready to bench him, and the most player they likely can get for him is Phanuef…I’m going to go out on a limb and say “Bad move”.
gary,
Agreed that Lombardi would not trade for Phaneuf and then a week later after he played a few games trade himagain.
However, with all the big names and contracts rumoured to be moving, a three way trade would not surprise me at this point.
something like Phaneuf to edmonton, richards to toronto and yaks to LA.
Or maybe
kessel to Pittsburg, ROR to toronto and one of pitts d prospects to Colorado
With picks and other prospects flying about.
the two trades are kinda goofy that i suggested but I wonder if we will see anything like thisin the near future. With teams lolooking to movie salary and not take much back and having a hard time finding a good fit.
i just do not remember the last three way trade in the NHL…..
As much as Dion is a TO scapegoat he is still work horse. Much more valuable than Richards
The Kings would have to keep half of Richards salary+ all of Dions to make that trade even come close to happening
@ds…
So why in hell would the Kings trade Richards, pay half his salary, and pay Phanuef’s full salary?
Also how would they add all that salary with them up against the ceiling?
Another not well thought out scenario.
The whole trade suggested by Surfer dude is a drug induced hallucination dont get me wrong.
@gary
there was no way that trade would ever happen anyways. i was just saying why would the Leafs ever trade a 20 minute Dman for a broken-down-early center? my point from Leaf view… maybe IF Richards salary was down to 3mil and Dion off books. and yes its all not going to happen!
Hey I got an idea for all you Leafers, why doesn’t LA and Tor do nothing and just keep Richards/Phaneuf. LA will continue being a cup contender and WINNING cups, while Toronto can continue missing the playoffs EVERY YEAR, so their fans can spend a lot of money on sweaters that they can throw on the ice. Works for me, so please don’t forget what organization is pathetic and desperate and what one isn’t.
Dion only got an 8% raise frim his last contract(which was agreed upon by Darryl Sutter) so he recieved a low raise from his last contract, he may be overpaid now but in 2-3 years top dmen are going to be making north of 10 million so the contract will make a lot more sense then.
Very good points C.King. I think Richard’s role on the Kings can be replaced. The one thing that Phanuef does bring with all his faults is that the opposing team is aware that he is on the ice, the hit could come at any time. Furthermore, he can drop the gloves, contribute to the power play and has a higher point production than Richards this year. So my question to you is; In your opinion does Phaneuf bring more value to the Kings as compared to Richards? No sarcasm here, just looking for your honest feedback since you do have an informed opinion.
Just as an FYI, I as a Leafs fan would much rather hold on to DP as opposed to having Richards on the team. Neither is a solution but I see Phaneuf at 7 million a better value than Richards at 5+
mdz….And thats the problem with Phaneuf, I would rather him stop with all the big hit attempts and try and actually play defense, you know the position he is getting paid HUGE money to do.
I am not sure why all the Leafs fans are getting so defensive? Not once did I say that Richards is more valuable, all i said is I would rather have a struggling Richards over a struggling Phaneuf because there is over $2 million per year difference in them and LA is a cap strapped team.
I wasn’t suggesting that you said Phaneuf has a lower value. I’m asking if in your opinion he would be more valuable.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think this deal works at any level and I hope this isn’t the direction the Leafs go in, similar to how you don’t want anything to do with this as a Kings fan.
But if we were to consider value for two players, both of whom are overpaid; who is the lesser of the two evils?
just like Toronto is eating Clarksons at 5whatever the kings can eat Richards at 5hatever phaneufs contract is just bad
Leafs cannot trade Dion until they can find someone to play his minutes. He’s a “B” defenseman, paid like an “A” player. But he’s with us, as long as Tronna has no player to play his time effectively.
Friedman has been sitting to close to Kypreos too much, apparently stupid is contagious.
Yeah I used to respect what he said … Kypreos is the absolute worst!
I don’t think Kypreos is dishonest, the problem is he only has about 75 IQ points to work with remaining from his punching bag days.
kyp is basically a tool of certain GM’s he thinks he’s getting insider info but really they are feedng him stuff so he yaps his mouth about it no matter if it makes sense or not. he’s a tool. just like Cox. I’m just surprised a bit by what firedman is saying these days. Richards for phaneuf? how i that supposed to happen? maybe since capgeek closed down Elliot is at a loss for numbers? LOL
He also spent years working with Healy. That kind of stupid had to have rubbed off on him a little.
Healy last night – man I thought I was going to vomit. They guy never shuts up
Was I the only one questioning why he is so obsessed with Karlssons hair? It was odd creepy and unnerving all at the same time…
Lots creepy about Healy – I like Simpson a lot better. We need to being back Gary Dornhofer.
I have gotten a similar sense from Drager of late. He has certainly been pumping a lot of Leaf perspective over the last few months. The main problem with Pheneuf and Kessel is the conracts they now have. Pheneuf would be fine as a second pair d man but is being paid and played like a #1. Kessel would be a great addition for a team but is being paid like the #1 star. As an Isles fan I wouldn’t want Kessel, not because of his reputation or the perception of his one dimensional approach but rather because if you pay him that much how much do you have to pay JT, Okposo, etc. It also makes it impossible to maintain the depth that the Isles have which is a huge part of why they’ve been successful.
All part of the Sportsnet Amateur Hour – and, just think, we only need the mute button to watch hockey for, oh let’s say, the rest of our natural lives. Enjoy!
Wings won’t give up a 1st or 2nd round pick or a promising young forward (Tatar, Nyqvist) or either top prospect (Mantha, Larkin) to add a rental d-man. Note to Detroit’s brass… you got to give to get.
I don’t see Detroit as a contender this year. Going forward with Nyqvist, Abdelkader, Tatar, Larkin, Mantha plus a few more seasons of Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Howard and Kronwall means that the Wings under Babcock (I’m sure he will re sign a long term deal) will be contenders for years to come. If I wasn’t a Leaf fan, I’d have to be a Wings fan. Yes you need a little help to shore up the D, but from where I stand (as a Leaf fan) the Wings are going to be a dominant team for years to come. But if you are really short on D, I’ll give you Phanuef for any one of the Wings I mentioned above.
Sorry, that should have read “I see Detroit as a contender”
I agree they are a contender, especially if their veteran core of players can (finally) stay healthy. Are they one top 4 d-man away from winning Lord Stanley’s cup? Quite possibly. And if you need a top 4 d-man now, you’ll need one next year and beyond.
Friedman has been drinking the Koolaid for a while now. I’ve never found him to be very credible or drop any real knowledge when talking trades. Its more speculative junk.
I just don’t get why we are working to resign guys now. What message does that send? Hey guys we are having one of the worst seasons and experienceing another monumental collapse, I was just hoping you wanted a raise? If only it were like that in the real world….
Kadri’s having a solid year and so is Franson. If Kadri is only asking for $4-$4.5 then he should get signed. Same for Franson, but a bit higher.
I’m all for the blowup, but those guys are worth more signed than unsigned as long as Nonis doesn’t Clarkson their deals.
Kadri will want atleast what Clarkson is making, this is where that contract of Clarksons is really going to start haunting the Leafs.
If I am Kadri’s agent Im starting at 6 a year and settling at just a little over 5.
No, because Kadri is an RFA for three more years – Clarkson was a UFA. He needs to look at the Gardiner deal. If he wants a little over 5 for RFA years, he’s getting moved. Hopefully.
They shouldnt move him, am I the only one who thinks he hasnt really had a fair shake in TO?
No…no you are not lol…
RE: Kadri / Franson / Bernier
I see negotiations starting at 5 mil (leafs) and 6mil (agents) and agreeing on 5 mil x 5 yrs, if not next option is bridge contracts, then trades
Kadri is on my personal “untouchable” list as long as he isn’t looking for $6 mil +. Bernier on the other hand may turn into a premier trade chip at the deadline.
Holland didn’t build the Red Wings to were they have been for the past two decades by being stupid.
“where they have been …” Lyle, you GOTTA do something about that faded text before we hit “send.”
I agree that you have to give to get but you don’t give up a quarter pounder for a McDouble. It’s lunch time and that’s the best analogy I could come up with
You bet Scott, quality players are not entitlements.
” … I’m puzzled by his (Friedman) persistent stumping for a Phaneuf-for-Richards deal…” Friedman is a homer Lyle, and when things sink as low as they are, wishful-thinking takes over among elements of the TO media. ‘Twas ever thus.
Good lord, Is there another organization in the NHL thats ALWAYS wanting to add a winger in some way more then Pittsburgh?
That voyanov won’t be coming back. They must know that. If a deal is made for phaneuf or any other dman it’s written in stone. If he is found guilty he serves part of his sentence then he’s deported. They need a second pairing pp guy. Phaneuf can be that but so can a lot of other players.
If Voynov isn’t deported the Kings are stuck with him. Skill or not, there aren’t many guys in any dressing room (or GM’s) in the NHL that will want to play with him after what he did. If anything he will have a target on his back and will quickly find out what it’s like to be on the receiving end.
It never seemed to affect Bobby Hull’s career. According to
Dan Bernstein CBS Chicago.com Senior Columnist
“Hull’s second wife, Joanne, whom he wed in 1960 and divorced in 1980, told an ESPN documentary in 2002 that she “took a real beating” at his hands. She described an incident during which Hull “threw me in the room, and just proceeded to knock the heck out of me. He took my shoe – with a steel heel – and proceeded to hit me in the head. I was covered with blood. And I can remember him holding me over the balcony, and I thought this is the end, I’m going.”
You can’t say Voynov is not coming back. He hasn’t had his day in court yet, and last I checked, it was innocent until proven guilty.
Phanuef is not the answer for the Kings. I can see them going after Yandle, for less money before Phanuef. If they need a dman.
Have you spent a lot of time in a dressing room? Maybe I’m a little older than these guys, but in my experience, that sort of thing (even the implication of it) would have led to the dressing room quickly turning against him. It isn’t (wasn’t) tolerated, and it can quickly sour a team dynamic having that sort of atmosphere around you. Even if he’s innocent, he’ll be sent to the KHL at the earliest possible opportunity.
You mean like how Colorado quickly traded Varlamov last season cause his teammates couldn’t stand him being there, after he stomped on his wife’s chest? Oh wait he didn’t get traded, and his team mates had his back.
Again LA won’t be getting rid of Voynov if he is innocent, why do you think LA is struggling this year? Voynov is an EXCELLENT d man, almost impossible to replace. Put it this way, if he played on the Leafs he would easily be there best d man, thats how good he is but you dont here much from him cause he plays behind Doughty.
NO he isn’t. He’s good, he isn’t an all star. And if LA is struggling, it has nothing to do with Voynov. That’s just stupid coming out of your mouth now…
“And if LA is struggling, it has nothing to do with Voynov. That’s just stupid coming out of your mouth now…”
I had to read that twice and then wonder if you did the same before submitting it. Because the question that immediately pops into mind is ” how do YOU know so positively that the loss of Voynov has nothing to do with LA’s troubles? (and there’s no “if” attached to that).
I recently heard Pier re Maguire say that the loss of Voynov AND Willie Mitchell and his veteran presence in the dressing room has hurt LA more than anyone realizes. And with all due respect, I’ll put credence to Maguire’s views far quicker than someone describing himself as LeafsMedic.
7 million is too high for a point man on the 2nd PP unit. I agree with Matty that Yandle will be a better rental of sorts, then again; Yandle costs a lot more than Phaneuf in a trade. I don’t see either of these working. By the same logic Franson would address the need better while the Voynov situation clears up.
There has been a lot of negative talk here about any thought of Kessel going to Arizona as they “aren’t interested” in big cap hits and are rebuilding. But if the Coyotes are considering giving Vermette at 33y/o between 6-7 million a season when he has only averaged 36 points a season over the past 5 years(whereas Kessel has averaged almost 36 goals a season) would it not make more sense for Arizona to spend the extra 1-2 million for a 5 year younger player that has double the output as Vermette? Kessel wouldn’t be the answer in Arizona, but he could be a piece of the puzzle that makes them a playoff team. Hanzel is a decent C and add in a prospect (likely not Domi) the deal could work well for both clubs. Gagner would probably do well with Kessel on his wing. As a Leaf fan I personally have no interest in bringing Yandle to Toronto. I don’t see him as an upgrade on Phanuef and he’ll be looking for similar money.
The difference is that Vermette plays their system, and they know what they have, and would not have to give up anything but money for a guy who fits and plays their system.
To get Kessel, they would be giving up a package, plus paying more salary. It doesn’t make fiscal sense for a team that has had money issues like Arizona. Not to mention the well known “issues” that comes with Kessel.
I just don’t see this happening. I could see Arizona talking to Colorado or Edmonton for a key young forward.
If Philly blows it up this summer, I could see the Coyotes and Flyers making a bit of a trade with Schenn or Couturier involved.
And what system is that? “How to come in near the bottom in the West?” Arizona is in need of a rebuild as much as the Leafs are. Vermette at $6-7 million makes no sense what-so-ever when compared to Kessel at $8 million. Why would cash strapped team pay a little more money for Kessel? Cause like him or not he is a game changer…Vermette isn’t going to win games, Kessel, on occasion has won games for the Leafs. If Arizona feels they can put a good supporting cast with Kessel he makes a lot of sense. According to Forbes Financial, each round of playoff hockey generates between $5-$8 million dollars for the franchise. While the Leafs still make money with mediocrity, cash strapped teams turn the best profits when they make the playoffs.
What are the well known issues that come with Kessel?
Hes uncoachable Dino come on man everyone knows that, thats what the coach that has been out of work for 3 years and not even interviewed for about 20 other jons around the league said…its all Phils fault that Wilson is still out of work. Thats what all the experts say…
Ahhh yes the Ron Wilson say whatever I can to get air time interview, my bad.
He’s perceived as a butterball who clearly pays little or no attention to conditioning … and that isn’t going to improve as he gets older. He’ll be 34 when his $8 mil cap hit runs out. Apparently, all those Leafs fans proposing all these trades see it the same way … but they never really explain why they are so anxious to see him go. Just wondering …
I think its a pretty even split really, and again funny how a guy do far out of shape is one of the quicker guys in the league.
Finally before lumping Leaf fans in to “all those Leaf fans” like the whole fanbase is packing his bsgs you may want yo remember 1 just jow big that fan base is could account for a very loud large portion of the talk
2 How much of the fsm base pay no attention to anything else that goes on in the NHL because they are devout Leaf fans doesnt necessarily make them hockey fans, and they condider guys like Healy and Kypreos O’NEIL Waters Stellick (alll former Leaf peeps) next to infallible due to them being former employees and take their words as gospel. The same mentality that explains some love of Cherry.
the thing that gets me is how bad defensively he is!! he just doesn’t give a crap what happens in the leafs end! leaf fans I understand stick up for him but its ugly when you look at some of smaller contract guys playing 2 way games and he floats around the ice? an example is max “patches” in montreal 3.5 million less more goals than phil this year and last plays the pk and is a plus player! is phils contract very bad or max very good?
Here is an important distinguishing factor. There are Leaf fans who want him to stay; let’s leave them out of the conversation (me being one of them). There is another part of the fan base that would like to see him traded. Why? Because he is the Leaf that brings the most back in an effort to rebuild.
There is a very small amount of Leaf fans who would like to see him go because he is a cancer or a fatty or whatever adjective you would like to use.
This is a rumors website and the forum you comment on is a discussion board. Kessel comes up in speculation so his value can be judged not because Leafs fans want to get rid of him and relieve themselves of this so called cancer for the dressing room. Its a team in turmoil so that speculation can be cast over anyone.
mdz… you didn’t answer my question is kessels contract very bad or is patches contract very good?
Patches is good ($4.5mill) but he also didnt have Kessel like numbers when they were negotiating. There is no way the Leafs could have signed Kessel for $4.5mill at all.
Patches is on a good contract but he also plays for a very good team. Kessel does have more points than him which is an important detail left out by you.
Max p is a career 0.68 PPG and Kessel is 0.79PPG. There is a difference there. Also, Max P was recently noted as the best value contract in the league. No one is saying that Kessel has the best contract in the league.
You can try to compare kessel’s contract against Eric Stall too, does he have no value? He’s a minus player with significantly lower point production.
So while I agree that Kessel does not have the contract value of Max P its also a convenient comparison on your part.
Kessel has more points that Oveckin at this time; does that make Ovie zero value? He earns more than Kessel and produces less points, yikes, the Capitals couldn’t give him away if they wanted. We both know thats not true.
The entire debate revolves around a suggestion that Kessel is immoveable and has minimal value. That’s just not true.
If you say that about Clarkson or Lupul, yes, i’m with you.
so as a leaf fan who would you rather have patches or kessel? kessel at .11 ppg more than patches and 8 million or patches at 4.5 million also a penalty killer? and if you were nonis and bergivin offer patches straight up for kessel would you do it?
He’s Very Bad defensively (at times)
Since coaching change, I noticed him:
1. Staring in the sky, rather than focused on game (all the time)
2. Fall down trying to turn, reach with his stick, and fall down to stop a turnover he made to Ottawa player that was 5 feet away already from his feeble attempt
3. 2-3 times, he noticeably was going the opposite direction when the whole team (new system) were all going the other way.
4. Doesn’t hit or takes hits on purpose to make a play
Nothing major and I don’t recall many times were Kessel actually cost the game. I do recall many occasions that he won games. All mistakes above are correctable and coachable over time. Up to the end of the season is enough time to make those hard decisions everyone screaming for.
Also, it seemed to me that vs Ottawa, some of his teammates didn’t even consider him on the ice at times and would pass elsewhere.
I think the leafs should connect a rope from kessel + gardiner to winnik during practices ala the dog whisper. Problem solved
He’s perceived as having a poor attitude….which wasn’t helped by his recent “interviews”.
He is also known for not really having a good fitness level….which is not good for an athlete.
I coach hockey, and there are just some kids that have a lot of talent…but just don’t listen. I have a player on my current team that I would say is uncoachable. He is a very good player, but he just won’t listen. He is very frustrating.
Kessel comes off like that.
I have to believe the Flyers are quite interested in Yandle.
No..they are not.
Please elaborate!
Ok…
The flyers are right up tight against the cap. They already have 8 dmen on their roster, not including Manning and Lauredson.
They have an extremely overpaid defence:
Coburn: $4.5
Streit: $5.25
MacDonald: $5.0
Schenn: $3.5
Grossmann: $3.5
Timmonen: $2.0
Del Zotto: $1.3
Shultz: $1.25
Colaiacovo: $625
Total: $26.92 million.
They can’t get rid of most of these guys with out “incentives”…as most are way over-priced for what they bring.
As far as moving forwards? Who?
They don’t have a true top 6 …Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn(?), …
They have multiple guys making multiple millions on the third and fourth lines: Lecavalier, Umburger(that’s almost $10 million between those 2..both with 3 years still left), Read,…and then we are into AHL callups, and European league finds.
They are stuck with this mess for at least the next 3 years, while Hextall fixes the cap issues. Yandle doesn’t fit cap wise, and would cost what little talent they have.
The Flyers have 4 highly touted defenseman prospects in the minors..Morin, Ghost, Hagg, and Sanheim. None of these guys will be ready for the next 2-3 years to start playing, let alone being an impact player.
Yandle would not want to come to this mess….it is bigger than what is going on in Arizona. Therefore, I can’t see him staying if he did come to Philly via trade.
The Flyers are about to go full rebuild I think, and Yandle will want no part of that.
The Flyers are not going to give up what it will cost for Yandle for one season…so No..they are not interested.
Here is to hoping the Rangers do not give up on JT Miller and send him packing for veteran bottom 6 forward or depth D… they do not have many chips to trade. Zuc could stick around for the playoffs even if unsigned
I wouldnt mind if the ducks got a hold of Vermette for the rest of the season. Not that Rakell isnt doing a good job in the 3rd/4th center role. But Vermette can easily slide into the LW spot next to Kesler, and can be the default center if Kesler gets thrown out of the circle. That would then not have to worry about getting Getzy out there in crunch time for the “Just in case second center”.
Neil and Phillips to TBAy for a pick &or prospect , both guys play a big role in the Ottawa community and would likely like to retire in a Senators jersey….but from a hockey perspective they both have a year maybe two left max and play reduced minutes now. TBAy can use depth on defence and some grit for the playoff push and playoff rounds.
I am sorry at this point Ottawa just has to “Let it Go” and start moving some of these guys, for years they’ve been touted for their prospect pool, but instead of opening up chances for guys they’ve tried to ride out the same guys… either long time veterans (Phillips & Neil) or guys then ended up being busts even though they were promising (Greening & Smith).
Move Phillips and Neil, grab back w/e draft picks they can net you and give them a shot at the cup, Tampa would probably love Phillips and his experience on their back end. Do the same with Greening & Smith and don’t expect much for them at all.
I don’t mind the idea of signing Marc Methot, he has been solid since coming back, but if you can’t get a contract by the deadline he is one of the best available D on the market at that point, so take advantage. Then put out some feelers of Michalek during the off-season and see if anyone is interested. Next year give some of your young guys a chance or see if you can find a top 6 forward to help you out using those young guys/ufa.
Suckers! The Leafs are worse…better get rid of Karlsson and Anderson before you start winning some games and dont pick in the top 10…its the only hope for ever improving. *sarcasam*
Fully agree. It goes back to Alfie a couple of years ago. Comes up to the end of the contract and they should have moved him out for some value rather than risk losing him for nothing (by FA or retirement). The Sens do have some decent youth on this team to build around, but it is laughable to think the team as is is a contender, much less a playoff team. It’s just time to rebuild. They have a Karlsson and Lehner on the back end and the Turris/Ryan/Hoffman up front to build around – moving Neil or Philips won’t bring you top end guys, but could bring in the prospects and picks needed to rebuild. If that’s the case, they can play a huge role in shaping the future of the team. Besides, they could be brought back for a last year or even a last skate down the road.
AJ You are very mistaken. Ottawa is a very young team, and I think with our current squad we are very close to the playoffs. We have lost a lot of games by close margins this year. We have 9 ot losses, translate those into wins and we are in 8th. I like Murrays decisions. Neil and Phillips are on their swan songs, Michalek is gelling with his line, and we have great youth in all positions. Our d is looking better and better, but I do think we need one more top 6. Greening is gone, smith and Legwand probably should go, but Stone, Hoffman, Zibby, and Lazar all have bright futures and don’t forget we have Paul. Even Pageau has been playing awesome. Keep Methot and Gryba and with Cowen Karlsson Ceci and Wiercoch we have a young and prosperous d.
Up until this morning I’ve been on ROR to Toronto band wagon. But thinking about my above post in regards to Vermette…If Vermette signs for $7 million because some GM is being an idiot, then I can’t see ROR (based on his past negotiations) having any intention of entertaining extensions before he becomes a UFA unless it is upwards of $7.5 x 7 years. He’s a good player, but if he is awarded that contract and stumbles one season, the Toronto media will absolutely destroy him. Also, even though he has had one 60+ point season, his career avg is just over 0.50 pts per game. Kadri is a 0.65ppg career so far and some in the media are already calling for his head. “Intangibles” aside, 15 years from now when we look back and compare the careers of both Kadri and O’Reilly I’m not so sure that they will be very different. O’Reilly will earn more money than Kadri, but O’Reilly has already earned more money than Duchene, and I would take Duchene in a heart beat over O’Reilly.
Here is my thought on ROR…would he be good for the Leafs? Definitely. Is he a true number 1? Ehh mabe in a Backes kinda way, not sure thats elite…Sakic I would think knows a thing or 2 about good centers, ROR is on a bad defensive team not playing much center, now if he is such a great fit as a shutdown center why would a team as bad defensive like the Avs not even really entertain the idea of playing him there? I like the idea alot of picking him up, but only if its a decent deal…not sure if the speculation is true that Rielly plus is going the otherway it makes much sense….I too am on the fence at that point with RORs contract.
ROR only has 26 pts this year… Less goals than David Clarkson…
So perhaps offering Kessel to Arizona for Hanzel and a prospect (Domi would be nice, but not likely) such as Gormley who is getting a taste of the NHL this season would be enticing to the new ownership.
Domi is too much? I think the Leafs would want more, like their first instead of Domi.
Domi is a 2nd or 3rd line winger – Hanzal they think they have already in Holland.
I don’t know why you would trade an elite winger like Kessel for that package.
I’ve always liked Hanzel. Big body, good skater, has some talent (maybe not as much as I’m giving him credit for) and always seems to be involved in the game. Gormley has top 2 potential. It was more of a starting point for a trade than a complete package, and more to illustrate how I feel Arizona would be better with Kessel than resigning Vermette.
I remember a few short years ago, during the Burke era Philly was trying to dump Carter and Richards. If I remember correctly Richards was rumored to Tor for Kulemin. But Kulemin was on Burkies untouchable list.
I call BS on this, there is no way Burke wouldnt have made that trade.
I think my Rangers are 1 big winger/center away from being a complete team…
Gotta like Detroit, with their “we want quality but we don’t want to have to pay for it” philosophy. Pony up, Kenny
Phaneuff for Richards makes no sense, Two teams with big need for major change are toronto and Edm A phaneuff bozak and reimer for 1st round pick and prospect makes more sense
The only way that MIGHT happen is if you swap Reimer with Bernier. Then MAYBE Edmonton crawls out of the bottom three. But realistically Edmonton is moving their draft pick unless it is to move up a spot on the draft (ex. They want to move from 3 or 4 to 2. Trade their pick plus Eberle for Eichel).
That is $13.5mill in salary how does Edmonton take that on without shipping salary out?
Phaneuf – $7mill
Bozak – $4.2mill
Riemer – $2.3mill
1st round pick – O dollars
Shockingly for a team in perpetual rebuild, Edmonton actually has some terrible contracts they could send back to Toronto. Remember these are the clowns who were going to sign Clarkson for even more than the Leafs did!
What contracts?
Benoit Pouliot @ $4mill – talk about un-tradable
Purcell @ $4.5mill – maybe
Petry is gone but they have Yak and Shultz to sign
Fayne or Nikitin are also unmovable, the rest of their RFAs and UFAs are all a million or under and so they arent going to get a whole lot of cap relief if you ask me.
On I guess I forgot to include Fasth and his $2.9mill cap hit but still looks bleak if you ask me.
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy…..I swear someone is reading our posts in the Leafs room. What I saw against the Ottawa Senators last night is how this team was playing in the short season, when they had Komorov the first time! Phaneuf fought again! Kessel played his guts out! Gardiner actually lived up to Leaf’s brass high hopes! All of them brought it in the second half of the game. Dion was damn lucky Neil didn’t confront him, and I think that stint in the dressing room was intentional to diffuse the situation. McLaren or Orr must be brought up if the Leafs are going to have any chance of getting into the playoffs. What would have happened if Phaneuf would not have gone to the dressing room to start the period? Neil would have went straight after him a soon as Phaneuf left the box and joined the play. Neil would have clobbered him, and then what? Clarkson would have stepped in…and then what? Clarkson off on another suspension, Phaneuf out of the game with a broken face. And the score would have been 7-1 Ottawa. Gone are chances for trading Phaneuf, another regular out of the line up (Clarkson’s suspension, for doing something and standing up for his captain.) Orr or McLaren could be a healthy scratch against Detroit…BUT NOT AGAINST CHRIS NEIL! Even if the Leafs manage to salvage the season and win every game from here till the end, we as fans cannot trust this core and it’s captain. They’ve displayed some of the worst “uninspired hockey” of any Leaf team since I have been watching. They had me fooled against Boston, when they had the Bruins on the ropes in the third. I thought this team was for real. And it’s like real life, sometimes you gotta build a solid foundation, instead of “filling in the cracks” expecting the basement not to leak in the spring. This involves some hard decisions, some sacrifices and sometimes getting less back when trading away marquis players. It’s like I said 3 or 4 days ago, Darryl Sittler was the “Man of Steel” (Sports Illustrated, circa 1979), Dion should have been playing like this from the start, hard gritty, angry! But Sittler had Tiger Williams to jump in and help him out,Pat Boutette, heck even Lanny would jump in there, Turnbull…Unfortunately for Dion he has lost us fans concerning his leadership and I do sort of feel bad for him and Kessel always being singled out, but not too bad, they make pretty good money, get to travel and eat in fine restaurants. I am looking forward to what happens be it INSPIRED play by the Leafs current team (hurry back Lupul, Komorov), or waving good by to some players that might get to drink from the cup on another team. Come on Shanny ring those phones or wring some necks!
Orr and McLaren are long long long long long long gone.
In other words they arent around anymore.
To say it another way, they are no longer members of the current team.
To add Orr and Mclaren are NOT Toronto Maple Leafs.
Yes Phaneuf is a pansy…slew-foots a guy and then starts taking cheap shots at him…what a pansy…Neil or Gryba wanted to destroy the sucker. Disappointed he never got what he deserved. Maybe next time….There is no way any other team in the NHL will trade for Phaneuf..he is despised in the league and his contract to what he is worth is ridiculous…I feel sorry for Leaf fans for having to cheer for Phaneuf and Kessel, both are just obnoxious and are carcinogenic.
No mention oh the spear from Michalek? Amazing how details are conveniently left out.
Michalek took a few cross checks while on the ice before he countered with a spear. Not much for spears and slew foots, but that’s the way it went.
I kinda feel sorry for Phaneuf , he is just about on the verge of imploding. Leafs are underachieving , he is the captain , everyone knows how under the microscope you are in TO. He is the guy , as captain, that has to keep his chin up and try to say the right things, be positive but it’s getting tougher and tougher. His post game interviews are harder and harder to watch he is searching for words. Sure he’s a pro and gets paid big bucks but you can tell he hates to lose. Best thing for him would be a trade out of Toronto.
They are listed on the Marlies Roster on the Marlies’ home page. I admit if they are not on the Marlies Team then why are they listed??? Long gone to the Yukon? Seriously Dino, is this true they are no longer part of the Marlies???
Your right they are, I should been saying there is no place for either in the NHL. My bad, but I highly highly doubt either of them ever see the NHL ever again. Thats another I’ll eat a sock type situation.
Orr is a scratch most nights I believe and I thought McLaren was playing gor the Orlando Solar Bears or whatever regardless no they are not really Leafs anymore those days are done. Why would anyone think 2 guys that cant even play regularly in the AHL is a good idea on an NHL team?
Don Cherry are you willing to strap on the skates one last time? I can’t believe Orr and McLaren are no longer in the organization.
Hi Assbackwards, I agree, attach the cord to Winnik.
But also Clarkson seems to have found his game, I wouldn’t trade him even though there is much hate on him since his arrival. You might agree with me, maybe not. What was perceived as stupidity (and it was to a degree), when he came from the bench last year and jumped into a ma-lay…this is the heart and soul type player that should be considered core. He comes to the defence of other players. And he needs to be in front of the opponents net at ALL TIMES when he is on the ice and the puck is being cycled. The Leafs didn’t pay him to score goals AND I believe there is some resentment from other players on the team(when he was on the bench last year he looked lonely). Forget the falling around, if he can bring it, step up and show some grit as a form of leadership like he did against Ottawa last night, if he can bring that most nights, then I say there is hope. It is obvious that it is all about attitude toward your teammates, supporting each other and giving a hoot. If the Leafs played like they did last night, every night, I wouldn’t be talking about it here. And Don Cherry says, “Don’t throw them under the bus, its a nightmare”…I disagree, either Shanny rings phones or wrings some necks. The ones who are capable of leading in some way need to use there particular skill set to jump start it, sending Gardiner in with the puck is what they should have been doing all the while! Just make sure Bozak or who ever is on the ice is cover his behind if the rush falls apart. You know…get him to watch some Bobby Orr tapes, Paul Coffey. But if they all get traded in the end, hey I’m for it. I just want to see the Leafs win the cup. So that’s it. I won’t be posting anymore of my Go Leafs Go, I’ve vented and I feel better now. Thank you Spector’s Hockey 🙂 And all the best to everyone in 2015! May the best team win.
hey, ya I agree…I like Clarkson but not for 5 mill. 3.5 – 4 mil x 5 years. It is a shame Burke gave up on his commitment to long term contracts but that was the trend and leaf media/fans demand playoffs.
Clarkson is a playoff player but core isn’t. Unfortunetly leafs with Clarkson yet to experience playoffs. This was that year.
I was rooting for them to succeed this year; now I say rebuild as they should have done right after acquiring Kessel, that was the true mistake, not trading for him.
The problem as I see it, with the leafs and hockey is this “new nhl”…nevermind the rules/salary crap… it is based on offense (wins/shootouts/power plays)during regular season…gone are the days of goaltending/shutouts/sound defense(trap)/tight checking and fights…You know, Hockey! and now, a lot of shinny teams (like the leafs) qualify for playoffs based on offensive points (shootouts) and more playoff built teams don’t make it (like NJ). Typically the shinny teams get knocked out 1st round as normal and playoff teams dominate their pussy asses.
Burke choose to go this route as really that’s all there was available and he was banking on qualifying for the playoffs via shinny players. Problem is the leafs are the shinny team that either doesn’t qualify or exits first round. Yes they are young, show promise but sadly they also imploded 2-3 times.
It all starts with good management (ala Bowman); sound decisions (player selection / salary) and commitment to no longer dish out stupid salaries unless you prove yourself 1st, even if your at bottom of the league as a result.
So basically, building a shinny team probably will get you to the playoffs and knocked out, but a playoff team (if they make it ) will do good.
Which one do you prefer?
So Dreger is saying that Kadri is seeking between 4-5 million a season over an unknown term. If this true, locking him up for at least 5 years @ $4.5 could be a solid signing for the Leafs. I’d be willing to bet that Kadri may even take a “hometown” discount. Hopefully Shanahan has had an opportunity to sit down with Franson and clear the air. Franson has earned his salary this year, and it would be nice to see him take a 3-4 year @ 4.5 as well.
Then offload some dead weight in the summer, and sit back and watch at least another 2 seasons of mediocrity.
Phaneuf will never be a King as long as Lombardi is the GM. He has stated since he took over the job in LA that he wanted to build a culture. Dion would never fit into that culture. It would not matter if it was Dion for Clifford (just using him as an example) and the Leafs retained salary.
One of the biggest reasons Richards is still a King is that he is winner and a solid part of the group that has won together over the last three years.
As for Kessel, he is a pretty good offensive player. However, Toronto does not have team around him and does not look like it will for a while. The reason Chicago was able to keep a guy like Kane and win is that they had a leader in the dressing room like Toews and had built up a quality group that could make up for the defensive short comings of an offensive star.