Maple Leafs trade speculation spikes in the wake of their coaching change, plus the latest Martin Brodeur, Paul Martin, Milan Lucic and more.
Could the Leafs shake up their roster by trading core players like Phil Kessel?
THE GLOBE AND MAIL: Cathal Kelly believes the Toronto Maple Leafs should trade Phil Kessel, suggesting the Leafs only star sets the tone for the Leafs room and consider his “public numbskullery” a corrosive example to the other “incipient knuckleheads” in the dressing room. He also cites former Leafs coach Ron Wilson calling Kessel unreliable. Despite Kessel’s obvious talent, Kelly believes the winger should be traded for the long-term health of the Leafs. “Trade Kessel. Decide who his worst cronies are in the room, and trade them as well. The structure needs extensive repair, but it’s the culture that requires a tear down”, write Kelly.
Kelly’s colleague James Mirtle believes the real challenge facing Leafs president Brendan Shanahan is deciding between a “de-build” or a full teardown of the roster. He notes the Leafs can’t buy a first-line center or top defenseman via free agency (and none are available this summer) while trades are difficult given the Leafs questionable trade bait. He recommends dumping players like StĂ©phane Robidas, Joffrey Lupul, Tyler Bozak and Roman Polak, even if it means taking on bad contracts which expire sooner, eating half the salary of David Clarkson’s contract, and exploring what they can get for Kessel and Dion Phaneuf.
NBC SPORTS:Â Jason Brough cites comments made by Leafs GM Dave Nonis in his press conference yesterday announcing Carlyle’s firing that the players are moveable and none of them had full no-trade clauses.
NICHOLS ON HOCKEY: TSN’s Darren Dreger believes all the Leafs, including core players Kessel, Dion Phaneuf, James van Riemsdyk, Tyler Bozak, Nazem Kadri and Cody Franson, are now “potential trade targets”.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Everyone’s got suggestions but the reality is there’s no magic cure for the Leafs. If the idea is to blow up the roster it means at least another five years of missing the playoffs, and as Mirtle points out, there’s no guarantee at the end of it the Leafs will be a better team.
Kessel’s contract is expensive but despite the sniping at him from Wilson and others he would attract interest in the trade market, though the Leafs won’t get fair value in return. Same goes for Phaneuf. That’s not saying the Leafs shouldn’t gauge their trade value, but don’t expect a hefty return for either player, plus the Leafs could be forced to absorb part of Kessel’s and Phaneuf’s salaries to make the deal work, especially given the uncertainty over next season’s salary-cap ceiling.
Dumping Robidas, Lupul, Bozak and Polak are more realistic moves, as is offering to absorb half of Clarkson’s remaining contract if it’ll make him more attractive on the trade block. Before going off willy-nilly, however, Shanahan and Nonis must see how the club performs over the remainder of this season under their interim coaches. They must also decide upon who will become their new full-time head coach before engaging in any significant roster changes.Â
SPORTSNET: Elliotte Friedman reports Boston Bruins GM Peter Chiarelli dismissed a report claiming he was close to acquiring Arizona Coyotes center Antoine Vermette and poured cold water on recent speculation Milan Lucic was available…Word is the Minnesota Wild aren’t counting on Josh Harding making a return this season. GM Chuck Fletcher remains committed to Darcy Kuemper as his starter. Fletcher and Sabres GM Tim Murray recently denied a report claiming goalie Jhonas Enroth could be headed to the Wild.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Chiarelli may not be close to landing Vermette but it’s believed the Coyotes center is one of the players the Bruins GM remains interested in…Not surprised the Bruins don’t want to move Milan Lucic…I think Harding’s playing career is over. Multiple sclerosis is taking its toll upon his performance.
NJ.COM: Rich Chere lists Jaromir Jagr, Michael Ryder, Tuomo Ruutu, Jacob Josefson and Marek Zidlicky as the five players the club should trade before the March deadline.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Of these players, Jagr, Zidlicky and Ruutu should attract the most interest if the Devils decide to move them.Â
STLTODAY.COM: Jeremy P. Rutherford reports Blues GM Doug Armstrong says goalie Martin Brodeur will stick with the club for the time being. Brian Elliott recently returned to the lineup and Armstrong wants to give Jake Allen a break.
TRIBLIVE.COM: Josh Yohe reports Paul Martin’s teammates hope Penguins management can re-sign him. Martin is eligible for UFA status this summer.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Martin’s salary demands and the Penguins cap space will determine his future in Pittsburgh. His current salary is $5 million per season, and the Penguins have limited space next season.Â
Wilson on Brady and Walker
Wilson with some great things in this interview. Said Kessel is a great player and is someone who needs to be better insulated…Wilson said same yesterday, people focused on negative.
All purely professional sounding and taking things totally out of context on Kelly’s part…but Kessel saying a member of the media is an idiot is numbskullery, and the rest of the Leaf players are knuckleheads…yep reporting at its finest, nothing but cold hard facts there.
Granted Phil should not have called the guy an ‘idiot’ on camera, but the question was incredibly stupid. How would any player react to someone asking ‘are you uncoachable’? Apart from a few exceptions, the hockey press is LAME. They ask ridiculous or uninteresting questions that don’t lead to thoughtful or relevant responses. The worst trend in on-camera interviews lately is the “How important was it to win this game…?” or “How important was it to get Player X back in your lineup tonight…?” What can anyone say to that? On what scale? The tired response is always, “It was Huge, blah blah…”. Maybe someone should answer “Well, it was 2 points same as the game two nights ago.”
Any team that drops 8 million on Phil or one dimensional, anti leaders like him is destined to spin it’s wheels and will NEVER win in todays NHL. Your highest paid player simply needs to bring more to the table than what Phil brings. Trade him ASAP. His value diminishes with every passing day.
Patrick Kane says hi….he is waiving at you with his 2 rings and 10 million dollar contract in his other hand….go on tell me how un one demensional he is, or how mugging a cab driver is what leaders do.
Patrick Kane does backcheck if you didn’t know
He also his insulated by other better defensive players.
comparing kane and kessle all around game is not a good comparison shticky kane atleast knows where his own end is and does backcheck!
Good point but bad comparison. Kessel being traded would signify a rebuild. They should probably do it. Either go all in or all out. Mediocrity acheives nothing.
Give it up Schticky! kessel wont get more than a second, too much baggage. Do you even watch him play? pathetic. leafs have no Trade able players!!!! They need to blow it up!!!!!!!
Toews/Keith = Core
Kane/Sharpe/Hossa/Seabrook= All star Support
Everyone else is a piece that fits really really well because of the above players.
Never hear JT or Keith in trade rumours. Dion or Kane and whomever are mentioned the odd time.
Leafs do not have core players that you build around. Not one.
Hawks are a great team with a solid core, all star first liners that don’t have to be in the media spot light, and all around amazing support. As a Leaf fan i would love half that roster or one of Keith or Toews.
Maybe if the Leafs had Seguin and Hamilton things would be different.
But its not and we are back at the drawing board being told another 3-5 year “rebuild” or “fix”, for the hundredth time in the last 12 years.
Nothing new at this gong show.
The only way the Leafs will be able to trade Kessel is for them to carry at least 30 percent of his salary.
Trade Kessel to Edmonton, JvR and Franson to Colorado, Kadri and Gardiner to St. Louis, Bozak+ to San Jose…and whatever we can salvage from Phaneuf.
To Toronto: Eberle + 2015 1st (Edmonton’s) + 2015 1st (fr.Pittsburgh)
To Edmonton: Kessel
To Toronto: ROR
To Colorado: JvR + Franson
To Toronto: Oshie
To St. Louis: Kadri + Gardiner
To Toronto: Marleau
To San Jose: Bozak + 2015 2nd
Aww come ON. Let’s be realistic. Not one of those trades is viable from the other team’s perspective. Not one.
Yeah Not sure Toronto will want Eberle and draft picks for Kessel. That is a serious rebuild.
I also don’t think Edmonton will give up a chance at MacDavid or Eichel for, well, anything.
However I guess this option can be countered and maybe a deal can be reached both sides can agree to.
Kessel is a better offensive force than Eberle in my opinion so you’d think something else other than Eberle would need to go Toronto’s way. Alot of the guys posting here crapped over me saying that a late round 1rst isn’t very valuable so Eberle, Pittsburgh’s 1rst and ……blank/s? to Toronto for Kessel.
Really cause I think the Leafs are getting robbed in that Kadri Gardiner for Oshie deal….
Of course you would.
Oshie is a premier top line player.
Kadri is out, and a second liner, future RFA.
Gardiner is a lead weight, and not worth his salary.
No matter how you twist the number Shticky. He is simply overpaid for what he brings.
I also don’t see a need for Gardiner in St.Louis, and there is no fit for Kadri in the top 6.
Yes. I don’t think Kadri would crack their top 6.
Kessel is a good player. He is not worth Eberle, and a first this year.
I would imagine San Jose could get better than Bozak and a pick for Marleau. C’mon….that trade scenario is not even doable to NHL15.
JVR is a great player, and I would love him back in Philly. However….I see this trade as a get rid of Franson move, and as a UFA in the summer, this deal would break down to JVR for ROR….and I can’t see Colorado making that trade…not when other clubs could offer more for a talent like ROR.
Highly doubt any of these trades make it past the laughing stage.
Premier top line player player? Oshie is 28 years old and has 2 seasons over 50 points…no I dont see it, Kadri is 24 years old a center playing less minutes and outproducing Oshie this year, on pace for around 50 points which would be 2 50 point seasons and has out produced Oshie over the past 3 years at 24 years old yet he is not as premier? Continue to bash if you would.
Oshie also plays for a coach who does not tolerate prima donnas and who will not hesitate to sit even a star if he thinks that player is not giving 100% – both ways. When was the last time Kessel was held back from a shift or two, let alone a press-box seat? Maybe under Julien in Boston.
How does Oshie help the Leafs? Didnt realixze he was such a defensive gem? Wanna see some adv stats of Oshie he isnt really anybetter thsn many of the guys the Leafs have and produces less sooo…. yes a 24 year old 50 point center for a 28 year old 50 point winger is a trade I dont think any would be in a hurry to make regardless of who they are or what line they play on.
Ill just leave Georges meandering between Oshie and Kessel alone….lol
Which proves the best approach is to say nothing when there’s nothing substantive to say. Bottom line – stars do sometimes need their egos checked at the door.
@Shticky….
Oshie has also been injured this year, is an Olympian, and has been producing over a point again now that he is healthy.
He has 11 points in his last 9 games. He has produced at almost a 75% point to game rate since he came into the league.
Ask around….who would you rather have…Kadri or Oshie.
I am more than confident most would take Oshie.
You have to be the biggest Leaf pimp of all time. No player is better than a Leaf, and don’t question it, or else…lol
I respond to many posts, and point out the lack of common sense in them.
I post a lot about the Leafs, as the Leafs fans seem to think there team who just fired their head coach, having cap issues, no set #1, bad contracts, and some decent players is worth more than proven, all stars and Olympians.
This is SPECTORS blog, not a freaking Leaf blog, and covers all the teams. Yourself and other Leaf fans take it upon themselves to try and make it all about the Leafs, and propose ridiculously one-sided trade proposals. When a fan answers and responds with their point of view….you try to correct us. You will not change mine and many others minds on the value of the Leaf players. They just simply are not worth what Leaf fans state.
ya shticky you wouldn’t dump gardiner and trade kadri for oshie??? give your head a shake you must be drunk lol what a joke
Wow !!!!
Oshie is a premier top line player?
Oshie is not even close to a point per game player. Oshie’s #’s are not the much better then Kadri’s plus Oshie plays on a much better team. Also the Leafs would be giving up a C or a winger. Then add Gardiner to that deal and it becomes a horrible deal for the leafs. Kadri also has 15pts in his last 16 games not including the game where he got hurt. If Oshie was Canadian he would not have been on Canada’s C team radar. Just because you hate the leafs doesn’t make every Leafs player brutal. I am a Leafs fan and I thing Kessel is a useless player that can only do one thing.
To Toronto: Eberle + 2015 1st (Edmonton’s) + 2015 1st (fr.Pittsburgh)
To Edmonton: Kessel
That deal will never happen in a million years.
ryan…. gardiner at over 4 million a yr the leafs would gladly move him
Ha, the leafs are going to get 2 first round picks, one which could be mcdavid AND Eberle all for just kessel and his giant contract he only EARNS half of?????? Mactavish is terrible at his job but NOONE makes that deal. I wouldn’t even trade Eberle for a Kessel straight up. Eberle has an affordable long term contract that is very tradeable if needed. You trade for kessel and you’re stuck with him.
What if in the Kessel for pens 1st, edmontons 1st and Eberle the Leafs retained half of Kessels salary. Edmonton gets a proven 35+ goal scorer for 7 more years at 4 million. Looks a little better now.
Why stop there??
Polak and Reimer to the preds for Webber and Rinne and 2015 first
Holland to the pens for Crosby and 2015 second
Lupul to Tampa for Stamkos
Robidas to the kings for Doughty and 5 first round picks!
no one wants your garbage players and even less teams want to give you their stars.
Congratulations on posting the mist useless comment of the day Paul. Your wit is awe inspiring
Are you vying for #2, mdz? Paul’s trade suggestions are ridiculous, but explain why on earth Edmonton would deal Eberle and two 1sts (one of which could easily be McDavid or Eichel) for Phil Kessel. The last thing the Oilers need is another soft, one-dimensional forward.
I think Paul’s suggestions were merely out of sarcasm because the OP LeafsAdvocate was posting such ridiculous trades.
I’m not saying those trades are great in anyway. Other than jvr and franson for ror. The aves should be all over that.
eberle and 2 firsts are ridiculous.
Hmmm, what’s more pointless, the original comment or the comment pointing out its uselessness? Your plea for attention is as pathetic as the leafs defence is.
Leaf fans for the most part, over value their players due to the mass media coverage and have a delusional view of what they can get in trade returns. Odds are that if you want to get someone off of your team, other teams won’t want him either. Take that into consideration when making trade proposals because right now the leafs would be dealing from a position of weakness. They don’t really have anything a lot of teams would want right now other than picks and prospects(which they don’t have many of).
If you would spend any length of time on this board you would know that I have never put up a ridculous trade proposal.
Your over exaggerated comment wad ridiculous and unnecrssary. If you think a trade proposal of jvr+franson for ror is comparable to the junk you responded with then you must know something the rest of us don’t.
U don’t want any moves as of yet, if I did I would make the recommendation myself
mdz why would Colorado trade oreilly for jvr and franson who is a ufa this summer and will get way more than he is worth? Colorado would never do that unless franson was under contract and even than they defensive dmen and franson isn’t that!
why does the truth hurt/ he’s telling the truth you leaf idiots think every player you have is great and is worth so much when infact you have more garbage and junk than almost any other team in the league kessel is overrated and nothing special to write home about when he actually scores forty goals and wins a scoring title or acually scores more than crosby,stamkos,tavares,pacioretty we’ll talk
I want some of whatever LeafsAdvocate is smoking. These trades are laughable man. Eberle, and 2 first round picks for Kessel? I mean don’t get me wrong, Kessel is a great player but you really think his value is that high after all that has gone down in the media the last 24 hours plus the former coach basically coming out and saying he is uncoachable. Come on man, at least put up some fair proposals.
wow….. 2 1sts and Eberle for Kessel. I thought id seen all of the ridiculously lobsided trade talk…. until now. Thats just TERRIBLE. At least TRY and be realistic.
Dream On! No way would that happen as Kessel isn’t worth THREE first round picks and especially not including a player like Eberle. Yakupov maybe. You don’t trade a potential Generational Talent of McDavid/Eichel pick for a guy that was just undressed in the media by his former bench boss.
Kessel can play, I cant deny that, but to move him after words like that being brought to light will not garner the return you are after.
We don’t want kessel. Keep your own garbage
hahahahaa put the crack pipe down quit dreaming and give your head a serious shake and wake up! yur trade is laughable if your getting the oilers 1st rd pick morgan reilly is going to edmonton along with jvr and bernier nylander kesseland more the oilers aren’t going to hand you eberle and macdavid and pittsburgh 1st for that the junk your offering … god you leaf fans need a dose of reality
Can you let me in on what you are smoking? I am telling you right now, there is no player on the Leafs that will get a 2nd round pick in return. Forget JVR for ROR or kessel for Eberle, wake up people!!! your team sucks and all your players do too!
Even Edmonton wouldn’t make the same mistake toronto did in giving up 2 first rounders for kessel and Eberle?? At least Eberle is a true Canadian boy not some less streaky american..lol
Give your head a shake no one including edmonton wants Kiddy Kessel
Why does your highest paid player need to be “insulated”? Problem is Phil is a complimentary piece getting paid like a stud. That’s why he needs to be insulated. And that’s the core of the problem. His former coach also said Phil wasn’t reliable. WOW! Your highest paid player can not be relied on? Julien, Wilson, Carlyle…none of them could get Phil to play a complete game.
Leafs would be better served trading him and letting another team mis manage their cap. Get the 8 mill back and try again in the summer.
Do you know ehat insulate means….Bossy was a great winger Lafleure was a great winger Kane great winger same as Voracek they were insulated by guys like Robinson Potvin Trottier Lemaire Toews…teams that won with great wingers but didnt solely rely on them, and would have found it more difficult to win with out them…he cant be the or winger cant be the only position of strength. Thats insulation. Kane is insulated by Toews Keith Hossa…they dont need to rely on Pat Kane putting up 80 +points a year to be successful. Insulstion is layers.
It is the Same with Hall. Insulation isn’t there. I agree completely Shticky
Schticky,
Well put.
I agree with this, you know what team could insulate, and get the most out of Kessel night after night? You probably guessed it, Pittsburgh. They have assets they can give, either medium term, or players that could help you stay in the playoff hunt this year. They have ways to get the cap space opened up. And Kessel would have a much easier time of it in Pitt, where he wouldn’t be THE guy. Perhaps he wouldn’t even be in the top 3 there.
You could do a short/medium term deal like:
Martin, Kunitz, Kapanen, Harrington for Kessel
That gives the leafs a lesser, (but still pretty good,) wing replacement, a top 4 D upgrade, and two guys who can play as early as next year (also wing and D). I know it doesn’t help the C spot, but you certainly get a solid haul of NHL or nearly NHL talent.
Geeze… the thought of having Kessel on Crosby or Malkin’s wing is frightening for those who don’t cheer for the Pens. Thankfully I think it would be too difficult to make happen to make it probable.
Would love to see Kessel on the Pens. The Pens should have taken him over Staal in the draft. If Toronto wanted a center back I would also be willing to part with Sutter while keeping Kapanen
Sutter & Doumoulin? Sutter & Harrington? The Leafs wouldn’t do either of those and the Pens aren’t dealing Pouliot … Kessel would look sweet with either Pens centres but I hear he’s a malignancy in the room … Pens got rid of Neal for that same reason …
I don’t often comment on trade talk and I wasn’t going to now, but really???? No one wants Kessel, Kadri or Phaneuf, if they are traded it will be for a bag of pucks and a hundred thousand welcomes. The leafs are in a bad position, no tradable players, no blue chip prospects, fans over valuing players, they need to blow it up. I cant believe that every player that comes up in rumours is automatically going to the Leafs. No one likes the Leafs!!!!! No one wants your players!!!! wake up and smell the coffee!!!!
Kapenen is Going no where but on the pens roster in a year or two. And at best Kessel is only worth Martin, second round pick, and mediocre prospect at best and this is with Toronto keeping 2 million on their books.
Ok then Kessel for a UFA and a second round pick plus the Leafs hold salary..no 300 hundred replies about how offside Pens fans are about rridiculous trades? lol ya its just Leaf fans…
I’ll bite, he’s worth a lot more than that. Honestly the scenario where he goes to Edmonton is only ridiculous because of how high their 1st pick will be. Two mid to late first rounders and Eberle for Kessel is about right. Close at least.
Yet Toews is the “C”… would that not make Kane the insulation? I know Kanes Skill set is top notch , but in the end who would the Hawks have to choose first : JT or Kane?
I agree, but i feel Kessel is not a guy to “surround with insulation” but rather should be part of the insulation to surround someone more charismatic and perhaps with a different skill set. Phil needs out of the spotlight and to be able to do his own thing. Unfortunately for the Leafs, they have traded all chances aways to develop such players, unlike other clubs who kept this picks and capitalized : (Hawks, Pens, Kings)
They both ,ake 10 mill and are both the hoghest paid guys on the team, Kane isnt going anywhere anytime soon…you are being to literal. Having a great winger doesnot mean the team is built wrong, having no D and qiestionable centers does.. The team has a little more depth than last yar bit compared to the good teams aroud the league look at the D men Look at the centers…all the top 2 li es wingers weere the same one way type player…the roster os built wrong.
Thats what i was saying, unlike the Hawks, the Leas just didn’t build right. Drafting is the way to go and the Leafs still have not figured it out.
You are comparing two all time great dynasty teams from the 70’s and 80’s to the modern day TML. Ok then. Game wasn’t not played the same back then as it is today. Not at all.
Question…would any former coach of Lafleur or Bossy or even Kane say they were unreliable?
The “insulate” term is a nice trendy hockey word these days to excuse crap play. It’s all about winning for me and Phil doesn’t bring enough to a winning formula to justify an 8 million dollar cap hit. He comes off as more interested in getting his ice time and stats vs. winning hockey games.
You like him as a player and I don’t. I will never be convinced that you win with core players like this. You seem to think it is possible. We will never agree on the value of this cat so it is what it is.
Insulated, are you building a house or commenting on hockey, get your head out of the sand please, it’s embarrassing…………..
If Kane was the only guy on the Hawks he too would be the highest paid player…how successful do you think they would be? Think if he blocked shots that would help? Its not Kessels fault that the rext of the roster is built wrong.
Well said, the Leafs “core” is a problem, but only in the sense that some of the Leafs in that core shouldnt be there! Kessel is a keeper and I dont care what others say- what a joke- you think Ovechkin is any different- personality aside. They get paid to score not to back check! I really dont want to hear how difficult it is to acquire a number 1 centre. I am certain that if Kadri and Gardiner were offered for Oreilly it would be done…I would rather overpay for a potential room changer than get fleeced on trading Phil kessel away…
either way Shanahan needs to speak now- slow this down..
Holy crap batman.
You will not get ROR for any combination of Kadri (injured) and either of Franson (ufa) or Gardiner(AHLer with a huge NHL contract)
You say ROR is a game changer. Do you not think the Avs know this? Do you not think the rest of the league would have offers that are better than Kadri and one of the 2 dmen you offer?
I also highly doubt Kadri is a Roy kind of player, and I again don’t see where Kadri would fit into the top 6…with Duchene, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Iginla, I just don’t see him fitting there.
Also..the salary would not work, as the Avs would be giving up a $6 million/per year hit, and taking on Kadri(3.3+? on new deal) and either Franson or Gardiner.
I can see the cap hit for the Avs being well over $7 million for any combination of Kadri/ Gardiner/ Franson.
To me, that is way too much money for players that just don’t fit the team and it’s makeup.
Really? You think the AVS want to pay 6 million long term for a guy they have had contract issues for 4 years who is on pace for 45 points? They have a glaring holes at D and depth at centre…All the sudden every Leaf player is worth nothing? Franson will be sought out this summer…
Oreilly is a Leaf game changer- not a gamebreaker- the leafs would pay 6 mill because they have no one like him- the AVS not so much..
You will never win with Ovechkin either. Two peas in a pod. The team concept is lost on both Phil and Ovie. Talent out the wazooo but a complete train wreck in terms of mental toughness.
here are some other complimentary pieces.. Ovechkin, Perry, Kane…yes complimentary not heart of the team..Brett Hull Jari Kurri all complimentary ..we need strong way two way centreman…
Perry not the heart of the team? Seriously.
The Ducks are built on Getzlaf and Perry and they are the heart of the core.
I and others said this a while ago however it has been reinforced with recent events. That along with all the changes in the Leafs management and roster they need to find away to reduce the media onslaught on their players or no free agent will want to go there unless they over pay for them.
It is mind boggling the blunt/abrasive questions asked of the leaf’s players shortly following losses and events like coach firings Ottawa recently let Maclean go after which I did not see Clouston on air trashing the players, I did not see the players attacked in interviews, I did not see reporters writing things like “public Knumbskullery”‘ and “incipient Knuckleheads”, and I didn’t see personalities come on TV to simply air poison over the team as if this was some high school spat.
I am by no means suggesting the media should be denied access to the players but surely certain media personal can be denied and their employer be asked to send someone else and the barrage of abrasive questions can be held off a period of time after a major event to allow tempers to cool. Even if that means to deny the media access to the player a 24 hrs following a loss.
I wished Kessel and Pahneuf attacked back a lot more in their Interviews but that would be ” Knumbskullery” or as I rather put it mind boggling flabbergasness”.
Jeff you are 100% correct with your statement. I think Shanahan needs to form working relationships with a couple reporters giving them unfettered access in exchange for not taking things out of context. This way the responsible reporters get stories the others don’t get.
That said there needs to be a cultural change throughout the Leaf organization. The focus needs to get to the hockey being played on the ice and a coach that will be able to institute the appropriate play style. Babcock would be great but I don’t think that will be possible.
In regards to the players it is my opinion that Phaneuf is the only one incapable of filing the role that his salary dictates.
Jeff, i would take it a step further and limit access.
why are media allowed into the dressing room after every practice?
Immediately after the games?
It should be a press conference after the game.
sports media has no rights or “freedoms of the press” this is entertainment and sports media is in the same category as TMZ.
Think about it, almost all of it is based on rumors and opinions.
anyways i am now on a rant, so i will stop.
See, I see it completely different.
These guys are pro’s..being paid millions of dollars to be a face of the team. Every team in the league has reporters interviewing players in the dressing room.
Look at Crosby in the playoffs a few years ago, spouting off about how he “hates the Flyers”.
The press and the reporters come with making millions of dollars for playing a sport.
What Kessel needs to do is answer with no comment.
Protecting the players or banning the press from the locker room is not a solution. I am sure there is an agreement with the league on how the press is to act, and the rules and restrictions are put into place by the NHL, not the TML.
Banning the press would probably lead to fines by the league, and would just cause a larger riff between the team and press.
The Leaf players need to take classes on PR, and answer things in a civil manner. I watched the Kessel interview yesterday, and the questions come with the territory of making $8million a year.
He needs to suck it up, and act like a pro, not a spoiled brat kid who didn’t like the question.
If the press was banned from the locker room, the fans would be the first to complain about the lack of coverage.
Go figure…gary sees it differently, did you watch the interview Gary? He said I dont think so, then was kinda taken back by the question feschuck, then says “so you dont think you are hard to coach?” A second time…thats where it started asking a dumb question guy answers it Feschuck doesnt like the answer so ask the dumb question again…he is an idiot, Phils right, same as calling a guys mom about his injury (Reimer) Feschuck is a tool.
Kessel is supposed to be a pro and the face on the Leafs……his reaction was wrong.
Period.
I did state above that I watched the interview. Kessel was standoffish from the get go.
He doesn’t like the question, he should answer no comment, or go ask the coach…not answer with your an idiot.
Yes the reporters are overbearing. Yes it was the same question reworded, but Phil needs to be the pro here, and respond as the face of the franchise, not calling reporters names.
Jeezus
Giroux drunk and gropes cop = professional
Kane mugs cabdriver = leader
Kessel calls a reporter an idiot for being an idiot = unprofessional bad leader
I have not said that the Kane and Giroux incidents were professional. They most certainly was no, and they got scorched for it in the press.
Same goes for Kessel.
I really dislike how you put words into my posts.
I never said anything but Kessel should be rising above, and his antics/ actions yesterday, on camera…made him look pretty stupid.
The press isn’t going to go away.
Kessel needs to act like rep of the team, and take the high road. That was tasteless on his behalf yesterday.
Gary,
I get what you are saying.
though i have never been able to understand that because someone gets paid more, they should put up with dehumanizing behaviour because they get paid more.
The argument that “you get paid 8 million, so suck it up” isgarbage.
Pay me $8 million, and I’ll answer any question as many times as you like.
It comes with being a highly paid, professional athlete.
It is like movie stars saying they have no privacy, and then showing up on the red carpet.
I am not saying the questions where right, or that the repoerter is a great guy.
However…the coach was just fired, and the previous coach says something Kessel doesn’t like. He needs to respond with no comment.
His reaction was wrong. The response and name calling from a “pro” was an embarrassment to his team. The reporters are part of the whole NHL life. He isn’t calling the reporter an idiot when he is asked about scoring, winning or a rich contract. Only when he doesn’t like the question(s).
@Gary, What kind of questions is “So you don’t think you are hard to coach?” What kind of reporting and interviewing is that? What response do you expect to get from any player? You think the player would respond with, “Duh…ummmm…yeah I am a numbskull, I get by on my own naturally talented and gifted. All the coaches I had since I was playing from the age of 5 to now didn’t do a single thing for me as I am to difficult to coach and I am here all on my own merits and no one anywhere not one single coach was able to coach me.”
come on man the question was stupid. Sports media is turning in to the papparazi or inquirer.
A more professional question would of been. “Your former coach Ron Wilson was quoted yesterday saying that you are not coachable and that you effort lacks for stretches of time in between great hockey, Would you like to address those comments?”
Then the question becomes one regarding Ron Wilson not the player himself and the player can either say he doesn’t agree and is sorry to hear Wilson feels that way but never got that impression from him in the past…blah, blah blah.
Instead they launch attacks in the form of questions with responses predictably irritable.
If I was Kessel I would of responded with “How am I to know if I am difficult to coach, I’m not the one coaching. I just play and do my best to understand what my coaches want.” But really it is a stupid question to ask a player.
I saw and enterview with Babcock and he said he knew Randy for long time and could not remember a time when a Hockey Person who played and coached as long as Carlyle, who won a Stanley cup as a coach and won the Norris as a player, was ever treated so poorly. Do you think Babcock is going to risk his reputation of being a great coach by going to Toronto where the media is allowed to unfairly rip ones reputation apart. Not I from these interview with Babcock I am convinced their is no way in Hell Babcock is going to Toronto not for any kind of money.
These so called sports Journalist make a mockery of journalism. It is going to cost the Leafs in their ability to acquire players. These players are professional athletes who get paid millions to play the game not to handle the public like politicians.
Here! Here!
Exactly right. Hey Gary he did answer the question and then the idiot asked it again. It was a ridiculous question, should of never been asked perhaps if you can pay attention long enough you can try to make an intelligent statement some other time.
The questions were stupid. I give you that.
But Kessel needs to take the high road, say no comment, or I’ll leave that to your judgement….not get into a confrontation with him, and call him an idiot.
I expect multi-million dollar athletes to act as the representatives they are supposed to be, not calling reporters names.
The guy from the press is paid to ask the stupid questions….Kessel could have/ should have said…”NO COMMENT”
at CT…phuck you.
You just don’t like what I am saying.
He could have answered, I already answered that.
No comment.
Instead he chose to get into a confrontation, on camera, that ended with him calling the reporter an idiot.
The report may just be that, but Kessel has to rise above this. The question is there because of a former coach saying he is uncoachable…….that says a lot.
His response was an embarrassment to the Leafs.
Period.
I understand what your saying Gary. Kessel would of been better served by saying “No comment.” However being under the constant onslaught of rediculous questions is obviously tiring on him and the other players who are likely in their minds trying the best they can to improve the team but are failing. Add on top of that the stress of losing your job. For a player like Kessel he will likely be employed else where but some won’t be employed at all. Also the attack on ones reputation as a public figure and the stress of constantly failing are all things that will make one emotional and cause random outburst.
Media personal know this. They go into interviews trying to generate that response. I ask again. What kind of question was that? The reporter was basically setting Kessel up. Kessel should of realized this yes and said no comment.
So the solution is for the Maple Leafs to ban a reporter like that from the dressing room immediately after games. Not ban all reporters. The public will still get their taste of blood. The reporters employer can be told to send a a reporter who shows their players respect. They can after any bit of information they like but purposely degrading their players in public is not tolerable.
Yes I personally believe the reporter was attempting to generate that very action from Kessel and he did.
I hate it.
And relly Phil ,ade it pretty clear ot was more about how that “reporter” does that to every guy on the team…so really he wasnt just sticking up for himself he said iy was about the team…how many of those guys or for that matter some other players around the league didnt probably smile about that and text or said way to go buddy…funny no one of the media asked say a guy like Reimer how he feels about Kessel today. Pretty sure they would view it different.
Gary,
I agree that Kessel was unprofessional in his name calling. No doubt.
i have also heard very few professional questions to NHL players in media scrums.
mostly the same unthoughtful questions over and over. That’s why i personally would prefer a press conference.
I also personally think that there is too much media saturation. When the penguins won the cup and there was so much media out there that they couldn’t even take a lap around the rink and had to do a loop in the neutral zone, the game lost a lot of the lustre for me.
i just think that there is a better way to do it and I don’t think the fan experience will suffer much.
again, i hear what you are saying, I just feel that for the amount of the info gleaned in all this media hounding in the locker room that gets back to the fan is really all that interestin unless there is an incident.
just my opinion though.
happy Wednesday
That should say “is not all thatinteresting”
Yes I agree they need to be “INSULATED” buhahahahahaha!!!!
What gets me is that the guy that is responsible for the cap mess appears to be getting away scot free and that is Nonis.Nobody else is responsible for overpaying Clarkson,Phaneuf and others.While they are not in the playoffs for sure they are in the hunt to make them and it doesn’t make sense to blow it completely up.As a life long Leaf fan I’m just as frustrated as everyone else but starting over again is not an option.Besides how’s it working in Edmonton?
I agree, the Leafs are having trouble improving their roster because Nonis gave out huge money for second line talent. One of the problems facing the Leafs is the same as Washington and Edmonton are experiencing – teams today are built around centres, not wingers. These teams can only obtain big 1st line centres via the draft (nobody will trade them) so that’s a few years until they are ready for the NHL.
Not to worry. Dave Nonis will be gone before the draft – one of Shanahan’s guys will replace him.The Leafs travel to Death Valley (California) and St. Louis in the next couple of weeks – let’s see how far out of a playoff spot they are at that point – and then the run to the trading deadline will determine if Toronto will be buyers or sellers. I wouldn’t count out Horachek as the next Head Coach and I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t make player moves until season’s end. It’s on the players now to show what kind of character they have and, who knows, the guys might play hard for the duration, just to prove people wrong. Stranger things have happened.
The De-Build (great phrase Mirtle) is what I’ve been spouting to any sports radio folks I could tweet at.
While there are those here who I’m sure are happy to dump on anything associated with the Maple Leafs, the core players do have value, and can be moved out for prospects and/or picks if you’re willing to take back another team’s Clarkson’esque contract. It goes (almost) without saying that any bad contracts you take back would need to be shorter than the one you’re sending the other way.
In that vein, were I the GM, I would try to find competitive teams to send the following players to.
Kessel, Phaenuf, Bozak, Lupul, Robidas, Reimer, Polak
The players I would retain as an interim core:
Kadri, Reilly, Bernier, JVR, Gardiner, Holland, Komarov, and one year contract over-performers who would resign at a decent number/term.
Naturally, any combination of prospects/picks that could possibly come back would correlate to the talent and contract they’re acquiring, and the headaches we’re easing on their end by taking back contracts they wish they had a do-over on.
Tragically, I suspect MLSE will continue to live in denial, and never commit to an actual rebuild, leaving this team in the morass. I’ve been watching since 93 (damn you Gilmour lol), and I’ve not seen it once yet.
The media is for fan entertainment and really should have little impact on actual players performance. Are some questions stupid? You bet but guess what….stupid media questions get asked all across the league. The Toronto media has nothing to do with Phil’s inability to play both sides of the puck. He could play more responsible and harder in his own end. Surely now multiple coaches have tried to get him to adjust his game and stop cheating in the D zone. But he doesn’t give a sh*t and chooses to play his way. The media isn’t the issue here. It’s the makeup of the team and how the cap has been poorly managed.
Why would the Oilers want Kessel?? If they are to trade with TO, it would be for Franson. EDM already has a talent, 1 dimensional,arrogant winger in Hall…dont need Kessel there!
I have no problems with how Kessel is with the press, just not his thing, also have no issue with Ron Wilson saying Phil plays two weeks on and two weeks off. The leafs are one of the highest scoring teams in the league but lack defensive reliability. Now your not going to get Toews out of Chicago but can you get Bergeron out of Boston. A top line center who plays better in his own end and would help cover up for kessel lack of defensive awareness. Not sure what the price would be even if you could get him (fransen, Bozak). It would be a start in the right direction to help change the mindset in the room.
Bergeron, I’m sure, has a no trade-no movement clause in his contract and even if he did waive it to go elsewhere do you seriously think that, at this stage of his career,he would waive them to go to Toronto?
Not sure why you think you could get Bergeron out of Boston. I am pretty sure that him and Hamilton are the only real untouchables in that organization. Why in your right mind would you give up on undoubtedly your next Captain.
The point was a player like Bergeron is what is lacking in Toronto. They have lots of offense but no commitment or accountability to the defensive side of the game. The Leafs need a cultural change in the dressing room and on the ice, by getting an two way center who is committed defensively first and also good on the draw is the direction the leafs should go and they might have to over pay to get it.
What threw everyone off was your direct question “but can you get Bergeron out of Boston …” which is significantly different than “a player like Bergeron.” Having cleared that up, there aren’t too many C in the league “like” Bergeron and none of those are going to be made available to the Leafs for anything they have to offer which, unfortunately for them, combines some talent with a whole lot of cap money over long periods.
Trades are like Unicorns……I’ll believe in them when I see them.
How many players with partial no-trade-lists have the Leafs on it?
And the Leafs are much entertaining with Kessel on the team than without…As much as fans are on him they sure get excited when he is flying down the wing.
He is no Sundin but the Leaf fans appreciate Mats ALOT more now than they did when he was playing for them.
Nonis likes to bring up that no one has a full no-move. I’m guessing that means they submit a list of teams each year they’d accept a trade to, or over the summer months they’re movable. Those are the only limited no-move arrangements I’m aware of (from other contracts, not Toronto’s)
if you trade the core, Phaneuff, Kessel, Lupul, whoever else you put on the list all you do is put that added pressure on Kadri, JVR, Gardiner and Reilly. So next year you can say to trade away THAT core, and on it goes. If you blow up the team every few years you never get anywhere, you keep the good you have and complement it. As Schticky said about Kane, he couldn’t carry a team, why is Kessel supposed to carry this team? Mogilny didn’t carry the Leafs when he was here, same kind of player and looked pretty good next to Sundin. they need to add, not get rid of all of their assets for picks and prospects that could maybe work out in 5 years. Whoever thinks it’s a great idea to trade away an allstar forward, top 10 in scoring and pay part of his salary for the privilege of trading him away? That’s crazy. Much of this is driven by Toronto media, Cathal Kelly saying Kessel is a numbskull, Rosie DiMano saying Kessel has no heart, no grit and no hockey IQ, and the fans buy into it. this is a town that booed Larry Murphy when he played here. Theor Fleury said he went to the Rangers when Toronto offered him a contract because of the media…there are issues, and overreactions by media, fans and management don’t help anything.
It is the exact same thing as Hall’s situation. Kinda neat the parallels that develop as the year goes on.
Someone posted the other day that thousands of fans can’t be wrong when the thousands state the problems with Players like Phaneuf and Kessel. So the problems must be valid. Kessel is uncoachable and Phaneuf is not a leader and very much a pylon. Yet the propaganda from the media influence people’s beliefs which certainly makes it very easy for thousands of watching fans to be wrong. They see the game, watch the player’s form their opinions which are already being created around the mold from the ideas placed in their headds from watching the media chew this team up. They then go home and have their views and ideals twisted again by the onslaught of poisonous coverage.
Propaganda is a powerful tool and I am positive that many in the media are actually posting articles in the hopes it drives the public to force the moves they want to see.
It’s funny because I always notice it in the comments here. if the leafs are playing well and the news and rumours are about other teams there many times aren’t a lot of comments. If something bad with the Leafs happens the comments explode, the day after the Nashville loss (9-2) there were over 60 comments in the rumours section, trading away all of the Leafs. I think the media tries to stir things up because there is so much attention on the Leafs. I don’t see a lot of trade scenarios and arguing here over the Wild, or even the Habs which have as passionate a following as Toronto. I don’t know, I’m a Leafs fan, but it seems to me that negative Toronto stories drive a lot of NHL press, and people who hate the Leafs always seem to know a lot more about Toronto than they do about other teams…it’s interesting anyway. And having said that, I read all the stuff in the Star about the Leafs, even though it’s all negative. 🙂
@tml_gm
Theoretically, If you can accept that this core (now an overused word) that hasn’t figured out it after three coaches isn’t the right composition to progress towards a championship, don’t wait until they’re broken down and worth next to nothing. You could include Lupul in that statement now perhaps, but he’s still valued by other teams apparently.
Trade away veteran talent while they still have solid value, and let the kids play as you draft and develop.
As for pressure on Kadri etc, I’d rather them get the ice time and keep learning and growing. Toronto’s not likely to get a ‘generational player’ like McDavid, but they may get a Tavares or two drafting near the top. As they mature you can attract free agents, etc.
I’m a fan of the team, but it’s like a relationship where it’s just not working anymore. It’s time for renewal.
@tml_gm
I agree with you about Kessel btw, he wasn’t brought in because he was a media darling.
My desire for a rebuild has nothing to do with Kessel or any one player.
the thing is they are all kids, I don’t feel like double checking but think that Lupul is the only one over 30. My thing is that there is no patience in Toronto, why would there be with Kadri? everyone was saying they should trade him almost as soon as he started playing regularly in the NHL because he wasn’t working out…I don’t know what the answer is with this team, believe me I’m as frustrated as any fan but I don’t think you throw everything away, they’ve done that already…lthat’s why they were paying Darcy Tucker until this year. I don’t envy Shanahan or Nonnis their jobs….well I do envy their paycheques…it’s a tough job, a tough situation and a brutal environment to try to turn things around in.
@tml_gm
I hear you. Sometimes it just doesn’t work out though, and I just feel that Toronto needs to accept a full rebuild, as the Salary cap won’t allow them to spend their way out of a jam anymore.
How do u add if u have so little to offer?
I’m not a Leafs fan, but I did watch the HBO Hockey Program last winter that followed the Leafs around. You can clearly see that players like Kessel and Kadri are kind of cocky And then you add in Dion Phaneuf and I’m sure you have an interesting locker room. I said last year after watching that program you have a lot of guys that hang together and you have a bunch of loners and that doesn’t make for a good team. Here we are a year later and this is exactly what seems to be happening.
Well since Kessel’s name is out there now, why not Kessel to Colorado straight up for ROR? Throw in a draft pick to the Leafs if ROR doesn’t resign.
ROR is going to want about the same amount of money and term as Kessel, buy he plays C. Kessel on a line with Duchene and Landiskog would be phenomenal. Plus he wouldn’t be the centerpiece of the team (which it’s obvious he does not enjoy) and could focus solely on scoring goals.
And it works from a CAP perspective as well. Colorado can afford him now and can afford to keep him for the duration of his contract.
So they’d have a 1st line centre, though I’m not sure how much better than Kadri he is, but now you don’t have a high scoring winger to play with him…I think this would just cause a different, but equally as serious problem.
Kessel for ROR is an over payment if you ask me.
What about Kessel to Winnipeg for E-Kane and Big Buff or Bogo?
Doesn’t address the need for a C. ROR is a good C and although it is an overpayment as proposed, maybe Colorado does something more to sweeten the pot. Throw G prospect Pickard into the deal maybe as TO has no solid G prospects at the moment…
No I am gonna say my trade makes more sense, ROR is a good player but I am not 100% sold on him being a number 1C or realistically he would be playing C in Colorado.
Kane and Bogo would be a cap hit of closer to 11 million I believe. Not really worth it to me. ROR hasn’t proven he’s a no 1 I agree, but I’d be willing to give him a chance. As for high scoring wingers? I think JVR fits that bill just fine. Might not be a 40 goal scorer, but is good for 30. They’d also still have Phanuef and Bozak as trade bait. Why not throw them at Winnipeg for E. Kane?
I’d also consider sending Kessel to Minni to play with Parise for Could and Pominville.
The Leafs would need to shed some salary to make it work I agree (Or Winnipeg would have to hold some less likely), but I would rather pay Kane and Bogo 10.4 a year and fill two holes then struggle to sign ROR for around 7-8 million or risk losing Kessel for basically nothing a year later.
Then what do you do with Kadri and Bozak?
I wouldnt be so quick to trade Kadri, I would want to see how well he did with a more offense friendly coach before i ran him outta town.
I am a Kadri fan, and unless he is looking for a deal bigger than Clarkson’s would be happy to see him resign long term. He is an offensively gifted player that made the effort to learn and play Randy’s system. As a result he has started to become (note the word “started”) a balanced 2 way player with 20+ goal/30 + assist a season potential. That isn’t a bust, that’s living up to draft potential. He arguably has the potential to score more points, but at the cost of poor defensive play and higher risk (think Spezza) type plays. The fact that he has turned away from these in order to be more complete shows that he is maturing. Those of you who bash him cause you think he should have 70 pts every season don’t realize he probably could, but only at the expense of what I’ve discussed above.
Agreed. The answer is in-house, I think. Kadri has definitely taken a step up this year and the team needs him back asap. The long-term answer is Kadri with Kessel. Once that happens, the need is for a strong two-way centre for the second line. ROR would certainly be a great fit but a ton of other teams have ROR in their sights as well. I’d like hear other options for a dependable second-line centre.
Like I’ve said above, I like Kadri for a lot of reasons. But he’s the Leafs No 2 C of the future. He isn’t the big body to carry the play into the offensive zone and hold the play down low. His offensive flare is more the kind that does best when he’s on the move, fast hands fast feet. A Sundin, Getzlaf, Thorton he is not. What the Leafs want from the 1C spot is a big player that can hold the puck in zone when the wingers aren’t in position giving them a chance to make plays.
Bibeau has a chance to become very good.
I’d do Kane and Bogo for Kessel. Thats not horrible for either considering how the Jets have been playing lately. No tjanks to Buff tho.
Or Colorado could run a 1st line of Duchene/Landiskog/+ and a second line of MacKinnon/Kessel/+ and potentitally have two of the best lines in hockey.
Avs need D not problematic players n big salary
Would be kind of neat to see how Kessel would react to the coaching of Patrick Roy!
They’d need to resurrect Job to find someone with enough patience to coach Kessel. Roy would wind up throttling him.
@leafsmedic you should be the next GM of the leafs, your trade scenarios are so laughable… You’ll be laughed out of the job within hours of taking the job 🙂
Feel free to offer up your opinions. Can’t think that I’ve ever seen anything relevant or that’s ever sparked any conversation come from you in the past. Actually, not sure I’ve ever even seen anything you have ever posted period…must be cause they weren’t worth remembering.
Leafs r in a mess. No quick fix so expect a lot of pain n start a rebuild asap. Every team dealing from weakness in the cap era rarely does well. Drafting n developing is the only answer. Say what u will but only choice there is.
yeah, you’re right, Toronto can never make a decent trade…they really got hosed on Schenn for JVR. I’d rather have Stajan and Hagman than Phaneuff, +6 and 22 pts this year, and he onloy plays like 24 min a game, I miss Stajan. Wish they hadn’t made that awful Bernier trade, they’d be better off with Scrivens…
don’t forget the kessle for seguin Hamilton and knight or rask for raycroft or when they traded the 2nd overall pick ( scott nidemeyer ) lol
Segan worked out well for Boston, I don’t think that was a bad trade. But now please point out the team that has never made a trade they regret? Maybe Philly? My point was that Toronto has made many good trades, so for people to say that Toronto can’t make a decent trade is garbage. and hey, you forgot Courtnall for Kordic.
ya the kordic one was bad too lol! I was just pointing out that they have made many bad ones too!
Kinda off topic but Capgeek shutdown is tough news , whenever I try to conjure up possible trades I referred to the site to make sure the cap implications worked. I hope life works out ok for the founder.
Effective immediately, Jan. 3, 2015, CapGeek.com has permanently ceased operations. This sudden decision is made with a heavy heart and is due to the personal health of CapGeek.com founder and director Matthew Wuest. While this decision may raise many questions, it is requested that you respect Matthew’s privacy and wish for no media or purchase inquiries. Thank you for your co-operation and understanding at this difficult time.
Yeah this is old news ( A few days atleast :0 ), that NhlNumbers.com is a nightmare if you ask me.
Agree Fergie, Capgeek is a big loss. Hope the founders health concerns are resolved favourably.
On my blessed Leafs, I have finally come to the conclusion that we need a number one centre, and we need to trade whomever and whatever to get one. Kessel is a complimentary piece. He is not supposed to carry the team. I do not necessarily think Kessel has to be traded, but we need a number one bonafide centre, whoever that may be, and however we need to get one.
I tried to think of the last team to win a cup that did not have a dynamic number one centre like Crosby, Datsuk, Kopitar, Toews, Getzlaf, Bergeron, Andreychuk,Sakic, Niewendyk, complimentary players and solid goaltending. The Leafs once had Sundin, but never enough complimentary players and solid goaltending at the same time. Leafs have the complimentary players and solid goaltending. They need a number one centre. Find a way Shanahan…
You are 100% correct this is something many of us have known for years. Montreal had the same problem back when Kiovu was on the team even up till now. Always having two great 2nd line Centres and forcing one to play as a top line guy where they were not quite suited for the positions.
In general. (there are likely few exceptions) Wingers do not make other players around them better. That is something lost when comparing a Centre to a winger. Centre’s due to the nature of their position are the forwards that can make other forwards better. Toronto needs a top end Centre. If it cost them Kessel than fine. But Kessel is a great player that is taking to much of the blame for a roster that is not constructed properly or simply lacking in areas.
Leafs have needed centres for awhile. Many teams r always on the hunt for top 2 centres. Drafting is the way n trading for them is more than rare these days.
Here is the thing that absolutely drives me nuts about Toronto fans. They think their players are wOrth everyone’s best prospects,players, and picks mean while they can’t win with what they have.
I think everyone in Toronto needs to really look at how worthless there players are really. Only one worth any top pick or player is jvr
The thing is as a reaction everyone who isn’t a Leafs fan autimatically says that they are garbage. They’ve made it to the pros, they aren’t garbage. But I do believe that they are sometimes in the middle. Kessel is the third highest goal scorer in the past 3-4 seasons, he isn’t crap. Phanuef is a plus player, playing big minutes on a crap defence, he isn’t crap (maybe in over his head though). Kadri is a 24 yr old avg .66ppg, hits, draws penalties, and can get under your skin. He hasn’t turned into a star 1st line C, but his D game isn’t the worst and he is a regular 20 goal scorer…again not crap. Reilly is a 20 yr old playing 18-20 min a night, has 12 points and is a minus 3. For a kid learning to play in the pros, not crap. Franson is in the top 20 for points by a D, top 10 in hits, shoots R (for some reason a trait in demand) and is a plus 5 on a crappy D.
These guys aren’t crap, individually they are all decent to above average players. But as a team, they don’t mix well. Beer and Wings mix well, Red wine and Wings, not so much. But on their own both quite good.
My point is these guys on other teams, with better chemistry have the raw talent to succeed. GM’s in the league know hockey, and they aren’t blind to this. If the Leafs go looking to trade their bigger players they’ll find willing partners.
Agreed. Tell me that if Kessel wasn’t available there wouldn’t be like 29 teams interested….yeah, nobody wants a guy on pace for 80 pts who hovers just under 40 goals every year and is 25 years old, obviously he is garbage. And look at Phaneuff’s numbers, which are a little better than Doughty’s, and say he’s garbage. Leaf haters always know everything about the team and by default say all the players are terrible. Having said that, there are no big trades anymore…which is why Toronto got Bernier for Scrivens and Fratten. every trade of a big player is because of term or salary, there aren’t really any equitable big trades anymore…and Toronto isn’t dumping Kessel for draft picks.
ya but leaf fans are always throwing out garbage trades that totally benefit them that’s the problem there players aren’t garbage just aren’t as good as leaf fans see them
that’s a bit more reasonable, look back in the comments and you see stuff like all their players are garbage and all Toronto players are worthless, nobody would want any of them. Most times when someone proposes a trade here it isn’t something that would happen, it always favours the team the person making the comment supports. So to be more realistic I propose Colton Orr for Claude Giroux.
the players aren’t garbage but some of the contracts they were paid makes them ” garbage” cause it makes them tough to move
Hey I am a die hard Sens fan coming to Kessel and Carlyle’s defense. Don’t lump all the Leaf haters in one basket. I don’t cheer for the Leafs but I can put aside my fandom and attempt to analyze the situation fairly even if my ultimate conclusion is wrong.
But as I said over and over. All this is just opinion and the right answer isn’t really out there. We can just voice our thoughts.
Coming ftom thr guy who thinks Paul martin and a second for Kessel if the Leafs hold some salary seems fair…
Better then trading 2 current roster players and half the future for a player that isn’t even needed on this pens roster.
Every GM in the cap era is playing poker n Ops know what cards they hold. Best hopes for the Leafs r TDL deals for prospects n picks.
Saying this player for that player r pre cap deals n hardly apply to today. When its broke u gotta start over if want long term success. So r the Leafs close to contention or not is the Q. Its obvious they r not. Bite the bullet n get on with it. Fan outcry needs to force MLSE to do it. If they do not then its the bottom line n not the fans that matter. Next 2-6 mths will say which IMO.
Bet on Nonis getting fired as well.
What does anyone think about trying to package Kessel for Malkin as long as Connor brown and Morgan Reilly aren’t part of that package
you got my ears perked.
Pass whatever ur smokin this a way pls
Please tell me you hit your head recently.
Rebuild the leafs. Please god rebuild the bloody leafs. Full and absolute tear down. No one isn’t available. Kessel, phaneuf etc. all gone. Keep salary if need be to get firsts or second. How about moving Kessel to calgary for Bennett and a first. Less than what they paid for him but who cares, just get rid of him. Phaneuf can go anywhere. Keep 1 million (500k less than last years salary when teams reportedly wanted him) and move him for a second. Just move these guys out. Get rid of who you can now and at the trade deadline for whomever. Jeez why do we have to always go through this. Middling team, not good enough. Maybe first round fodder if they make the playoffs. They will sell out every game even if there is a rebuild.
A little off topic but I was wondering, to Leaf fans, what they think of Connor Brown? I’m not a Leaf fan but I’ve been following him for a couple years and he’s made major strides in his game. He’s not big guy but he sure knows how to put up points. Tore the OHL up last year and Rookie of the month in December for the AHL. Just wondering where you think he fits in, if you’re excited, what value you place on him? ect.
If he can work on his strength and conditioning, add another 15lbs and continue to put up solid numbers this season I see him challenging for a spot in 2016.
On an additional note, I’d love to see the Leafs bring Gary Roberts on board the management team. Assistant coach, or maybe athletic conditioning coach. I know he runs a successful training facility for young players next door to the ACC, but I’m pretty confident that he could be persuaded to step up and dedicate that training regime to the Leafs. Shanny, if you’re reading this, the man has been a Leaf fan for a long time, long before he played for them, and he has a track record for making those around him push themselves harder than they thought possible.
Trade the Leafs to Las Vegas n rename them the Bandits since they r rip off.
Give Toronto an expansion team so they can start over finally.
Start a new futility streak or get it right. Only way is a do over since a lifetime only lasts so long.
Is it unthinkable to move Phil to either Minnesota or Colorado? I was thinking
We get duchene and they get phil and a second. We get our center of the future for around the same cap hit. Colorado is also stacked at centre so why not.
Or phil to minny for Vanek and granlund? Or Phil for granlund plus? Phil goes back home to a quieter market where he isn’t raped in the media because lets be honest, he’s not built for this scrutiny.
Thoughts?
I had posted similar earlier. I thought Kessel for ROR or Kessel for Pominville and Coyle.
the minny ones aren’t terrible but no way col gives up Duchene for kessle not a chance
I am not questioning Kessels value, but from the Avs standpoint ….I don’t think they will be looking for a scoring winger in return for ROR or Duchene. They will be looking for a d-man. This trade makes perfect sense for Toronto, but really makes no sense for Colorado at all.
I think Duchene is too valuable to Colorado for them to trade him for Kessel (regardless of the 2nd).
The other trade surprised me in that I don’t think it would be good for Toronto. Granlund has a ton of potential but Vanek is the last player a media-frenzy team with fickle fans like the Leafs needs. Vanek would be an absolute whipping boy and would be demanding a trade or have fans demanding a trade in no time. Granlund will likely never be as good an offensive player as Kessel already is, although a talented young center like Granlund would help the team a lot.
Normally I don’t comment on the neverending Toronto trade rumours since they already dominate this site and, y’know, 29/30 of the league involves non-Toronto teams. But this trade rumour made me think a little so I thought I’d offer my two cents.
Wow. Leafs are still in the playoff picture. Don’t jump !
I would be more worried if I were a Flyer fan. Berube should not buy any green banana’s. I believe no major deals are going to happen. I will say though there was a reason Phanuef was traded out of Calgary for virtually nothing. It was not for on-ice reasons and Iggy straightened it out. Ask Craig Conroy.
agree with phaneuf iggy don’t take crap
I would not give you a box of rotten Bananas for any Leafs Players
I believe the Globe & Mail should trade Cathal Kelly, as I believe , he sets the tone for the newspaper with his his “public numbskullery”!
I do not see the Leafs doing a rebuild. I see the Hurricanes doing a rebuild. What would it take, without including Kessel in the deal, to pry Staal out of Carolina?
Greening for Clarkson straight up.
Yes Clarkson is a much better player but we’re taking back more term and $$.
We can fix Clarky.
You guys can bury Greening.
The Toronto media is equivalent to English Tabloids. SO toxic. Ruined so many good coaches. You’ve had AMAZING COACHES. WTF Leafs?
Leave Phill alone. He does his job.He gets points. So what if he tells off the newspapers they deserve it. They need to make a few adjustments. Get some hitters and forecheckers. The leafs lost there grit T.O hockey needs hits. We don’t hit we lose.
What they should do is find that clown who signed Clarkson for that kind of money and fire his @#!. And as much as i don’t want to admit it the should trade Lupol and gardiner. They have Reilly i think he is going to be better