The latest on Dion Phaneuf, Phil Kessel, Antti Niemi, Jaromir Jagr, Daniel Winnik, Erik Condra, Malcolm Subban and more.
Rumors from TSN’s insiders.
Could the Sharks still move Antti Niemi?
TSN: Darren Dreger reports it’s possible the Toronto Maple Leafs could move Dion Phaneuf before the trade deadline but doubts it will happen because of his contract. He also expects attempts to move Phil Kessel could drag into the offseason…Pierre LeBrun reports the Winnipeg Jets and Pittsburgh Penguins could target Leafs forward Daniel Winnik. …Dreger doesn’t expect the New York Rangers will trade pending UFA forward Mats Zuccarello if he’s unsigned by the trade deadline…The Nashville Predators intend to continue contract talks with pending UFA center Mike Fisher, but he won’t be traded at the deadline…LeBrun told TSN 1290 the San Jose Sharks are taking calls on pending UFA goalie Antti Niemi. The Sharks are hanging onto a playoff berth by a slim margin, LeBrun believes they want to make the playoffs but also replenish on the fly.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Nothing really new here, though I will suggest that as long as the Sharks are in playoff contention they won’t move Niemi. A free fall in the standings between now and March 2 could change that.
Latest on the Devils.
NORTHJERSEY.COM: Tom Gulitti believes the New Jersey Devils are likely to be sellers at the upcoming NHL trade deadline. Potential free agents Jaromir Jagr, Scott Gomez, Marek Zidlicky, Steve Bernier, Michael Ryder, Martin Havlat, Jordin Tootoo and Mark Fraser could be available. Jagr, Zidlicky and Gomez could be their most intriguing rental players.
NJ.COM: Rich Chere reports Jagr doesn’t see any reason for the Devils to retain him at this point. Though he stresses it’s not as though he doesn’t feel wanted and isn’t requesting a trade, Jagr can’t help the Devils make the playoffs this season. Zidlicky and Patrik Elias claim they haven’t been asked to waive their no-trade clauses.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Jagr and Zidlicky are goners at the deadline. I doubt Elias is going anywhere. GM Lou Lamoreillo is very loyal toward certain players and I doubt he’ll ask Elias to waive his no-trade clause.
Avalanche and Coyotes talking trade?
THE DENVER POST: Terry Frei reports Colorado Avalanche GM Joe Sakic and Arizona Coyotes GM Don Maloney were observed sitting together during the morning skate before last night’s Coyotes-Avalanche game at the Pepsi Center. Frei notes Coyotes defenseman Keith Yandle has been a fixture in this season’s rumor mill and the Avalanche are in need of a quality defenseman.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: My thanks to “Shawn” for sending this in. Maybe Sakic and Maloney were talking trade. Maybe they were discussing a swap of Yandle for Ryan O’Reilly. Or maybe they were just shooting the breeze. As Frei points out, there’s no way to know what they were discussing. Nobody overheard their conversation.
Bruins showcasing Subban?
THE BOSTON GLOBE: Amalie Benjamin reports the Bruins have called up goaltender Malcolm Subban, leading to speculation they could be showcasing the promising netminder for a trade.
NICHOLS ON HOCKEY: TSN’s Bob McKenzie acknowledges anything’s possible but believes the Bruins don’t want to move Subban.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: The Bruins prefer to retain Subban, but Tuukka Rask is entrenched as their starter. If they get a decent offer they’ll listen, but I’ll be surprised if Subban moves.
Other notable rumors.
NBC SPORTS: Ryan Dadoun reports of speculation the Toronto Maple Leaf seek two draft picks for Daniel Winnik, perhaps two second-round picks or second and a third rounder.
OTTAWA SUN: Don Brennan reports forward Erik Condra could be the Senators most tradeable asset.
DELAWARE ONLINE: Dave Isaac reports the Philadelphia Flyers recent improvement won’t turn GM Ron Hextall into a buyer to improve their playoff chances. While making the postseason would be great, Hextall is keeping his eye on the future.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: That’s a big departure from Hextall’s predecessors, who weren’t shy about deadline wheeling and dealing. Hextall definitely doesn’t want to sacrifice his futures for a quick fix.
I do think Daniel Winnik is a servicable player and one a playoff team might add to bolster their team for a playoff run, but COME ON!—-any team could have signed him as a UFA lats summer, now suddenly in a year with a thick draft the same teams that passed on him want to pay a 2nd AND a 3rd?
Believe me after that Paul Gaustad for a first rounder a few years ago, anything is possible, but I have to believe that this is more about sportswriter Ryan Dadoun being out of touch with the market.
Ummm….bill….Ryan Dadoun is reporting that there is speculation that the leafs are asking for 2 picks. Not that Winnik is worth the two picks or that the Leafs will actually be offered two picks for Winnik. These are just rumours. Not facts. It does not surprise me that a team will set the price high while a buyer sets it low then they negotiate at meet in the middle.
Out of touch with the Market? He hasn’t said what he believes Winnik is worth at all.
If anything I see the Flyers as a seller and Hextall’s priority will be getting Timonen on the ice for 2-3 games before the deadline to show he is healthy and moving him and his expiring contract to a contender for a draft pick or prospect.
Phaneuf and Kozun to Dallas for Oleksiak, Cole and a 2nd rounder. Dallas takes the whole contract, they can afford it with Cole, Horcoff and Peverly coming off the books next year.
Your dreaming. Where is the benefit to Dallas?
A 3/4 overpaid D man for a A level prospect and a draft pick?
So in a year when Eakins and Nichushkin need to be resigned to significant raises Dallas is strapped by Phaneuf’s salary?
Not going to happen.
As it stands right now Dallas has over 20 million next year to use to resign Eakins and nichushkin and to fill out bottom six spots. They have more than enough to take phaneufs contacts…not saying they will or should but they absolutely could. Good start with the trade, I love that oleckiak kid. Dallas gets a number 2-4 dman who cN eat minutes for them. He is an upgrade over the likes of demers, Goligoski etc. I would maybe throw in reimer or a goalie prospect. It sucks for them because they could add Crosby and still have little chance of winning with letonan in goal
Dallas has no need for Reimer….they have Lehtonen as their starter, and just brought in Enroth.
Just because Dallas has $20 million next year, doesn’t mean they are in good shape. Benn only has 2 more years, and you know he is getting a raise from $5.25 per.
They have only 4 dmen on their roster signed for next year, and 4 UFA’s at forward. They have 24 million between 4 players: Benn, Lehtonen, Seguin and Spezza…if they add Phaneuf to that, they have over $31 million on 5 guys….can’t see Nill doing that.
Just makes no sense from the Dalls perspective.
And don’t give me the crap they need Phaneuf because they have only 4 dmen signed for next year…they do not need his contract. They can fill out their roster with UFA’s or through their system, and still have money there for Benn, and other players.
Dallas is going to need to replace at least 2 of thier high priced UFA’s with better talent and that will likely cost them 10 m. The goal in Dallas is to be a playoff team.
Dallas can pick up Paul Martin, Meszaros, or Michalek for far less money than Dion and get better D or for the same money as Phaneuf they can get Mike Green.
Thanks Matty. Ya I’m high on Oleksiak too, kid’s a beast. I think Phaneuf gets a rough ride in TO. I agree he’s overpaid by at least a million, but his +/- has always been impressive considering how inept the team’s been defensively, and he munches major minutes against the oppositions best players. Kozun is a good pick up too, he would’ve been on the team this year if it wasn’t for injury. But I don’t think Reimer gets it done, I don’t think anybody picks him up for anything. Him, Clarkson and to a lesser extent Lupul and Bozak are pretty untradeable do to the fact the stink something awful this year. Cheers!
“Darren Dreger reports it’s possible the Toronto Maple Leafs could move Dion Phaneuf before the trade deadline but doubts it will happen because of his contract.” How’s that for covering one’s “rumor butt?” Lots of teams have – or will have – the cap space to take on Phaneuf’s contract. That’s obvious after even a cursory scan of the salary structures. The question is, why would they? That’s a long time to be paying a $7 mil a year cap hit for a player whose defensive woes are well enough catalogued in TO to have earned him the “Pylon” tag. Dream away, but there is NO way they wind up dealing him unless the Leafs hold back a significant annual portion of the $7 mil. It just is not going to happen, same as they will find no takers for Clarkson and Mr. IR, Joffrey Lupul, a good offensive gamble at maybe 3 years and $2.5 mil per but not at $5,250,000 for the next 3 years. These are Nonis mistakes that they are stuck with, especially in an uncertain cap world.
I’m have no idea how the math works out. Don’t dispute that Dallas may have 20 million of free cap space. But I look at the Roster and see Players like Benn, Seguin, Spezza, Nichushkin and Goligoski with the need to upgrade their goaltending and I find it hard to think a team will put the burden of Phaneufs contract on themselves. It’s not the 7 million that worries me. Its the 7 years at 7 or what ever it is.
Agreed, and Benn is up for renewal in 2 years. Nill is not a dumb gm, and he is looking to the future as well as the current.
Spezza Hemsky Moen…..that is all
@Shticky:
care to elaberate:
Spezza Hemsky Moen…..that is all
Just saying those were some guys that didnt have the best of reps and questions about them and their value yet Nill (the smart GM) took the chance on them. I am not arguing Phaneuf for this guy or that guy, just saying those were guys thst had questions and Nill took them on and even signed them to fairly big deals….
I guess schticky he could move those guys out to fit in Phaneufs contract but It still seems to be a big commitment to make for that many years.
Nil is a gambler… sometimes he wins sometimes he loses.
I think the stakes on this one are just too great even for Nil.
The differences being, Spezza is a C with 44 points in 56 games and aside from Vermette not many of those are floating around? Hemsky is signed at a cap hit of $4 for just 2 more years while Moen is a $1,8800,000 cap hit for the same period. That’s a far cry from $7 mil for the next 7 years for a D who can’t turn left.
Just say’n E Kane had some questions, Seguin had some questions Vanek had some questions Dubnyk questions Rick Nash had a bigcontract and questions Gaborik had questions Callahan had injuries Luongo huge contract moved Ryan Miller Vanek again had questions, everyone has questions yet they all move, and some here it doesent matter
who you mention if its a Leaf or where you
say they are going, the peanut gallery chimes
in with no that will never happen…lol Franson to Nashville? With their D? Oh no he will never fit there…
with the exception of Dubnyk (Dubnyk??) the players you mention had significant track records and none had the injury history of Lupul (and I LIKE Lupul as a player) nor the reputation for leaky defensive play that haunts Phaneuf. I have no doubts whatsoever that both would be easy to deal even now IF they weren’t saddled with those salaries and term. THAT’S what is going to make it virtually impossible to move them.
Significant track record? Like top 5 point producers in the game? No injury history like Hemsky and Gaborik? Oh how quickly we forget. Kessel put up 80 points last year,and “slumping badly” is likely to put up around 30 goals 6 seasons and over 50 points again this year…7 out of 8 seasons (including the lockout) 262 points past 280 games no track record there?
…but keep banging that drum about the same thing over and over again instead of any kind of normal conversation.
Leafs should be trying to package Lupul and polak together to the Ducks for sourey, bourque and a pick, and also at the draft should try and move kessel to Arizona for domi and their 1st, then ship out bozak, dion, and bernier to the oilers for their 1st
The Ducks could use Lupul but only for a prospect or a pick.
Bourque is another player you don’t want around a young rebuild.
It would be a great add for Anaheim. A good vet who takes pucks off the chin on d to help the young guys continue to get better next year. Lupal would help them a lot….if he stays healthy. Anaheim gas so much cap room but I would still try and move stoners 3.25 to toronto. Would empty another contract anaheim doesn’t need and would probably add to the pick toronto would get. Kind of insurance for when Lupal missed 30 games with amazingly random injuries
Lupul has been through Anageim twice already. Can’t see it a third time with his extensive injury history.
They can find the production elsewhere…Buffalo? for less of a risk.
Did you seriously just propose that Bozak and Phaneuf and Bernier would be enough to get the (likely) #1 overall pick in this year’s draft?
I’d love to come up with a counter-proposal which would somehow justify the Leafs getting that pick from Edmonton, but unless they win the lottery, the Leafs won’t be getting the #1 pick. They don’t have enough in the cupboards.
Yeah, I wouldn’t make that trade if I were EDM, even if Bernier weren’t RFA. If that pick turns out to be McDavid then that is a bad move for EDM.
Sorry, to clarify even if the pick isn’t McDavid it’s a bad move, they’ll have one of the top few picks.
Do you Leafs fans know anything about the other teams in the league? Arizona is NOT trading picks and prospects to anyone, especially for Kessel. Their new owner just came out publicly and said that he is fully committed to a rebuild, followed by Maloney saying everyone except Doan is available. If that’s not enough for you, then look at the expected number 1 pick for 2016, its Austin Mathews who is from the Phoenix area. The Coyotes will be getting a very high pick this year and will be selling off others pieces in the summer to go on full tank mode for 2016. So again I repeat, Arizona will NOT be trading away picks and prospects for Kessel, and there is zero chance Leafs land Domi.
Um, 1 guy said that and nobody agreed with it so why are you saying ‘you leafs fans’?
Because 50% of your fans grossly overvalue the Toronto players and bring the rest down. Not saying your one of them but I have found that 50% of your fellow Toronto fans are brain dead and know nothing about hockey or I doubt life as well.
Not to generalize of course, right?
OH MY GOD give it break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kessel is not going to get you Domi and a top 5 pick from Arizona.
You will be lucky to get a decent pick and a blevel prospect with all that Phil brings. At this point he is an $8 million dollar player..paid to score goals, and he isn’t doing that currently (2 goals in 10 games). He has issues with the press and coaches, and plays poor defensively.
Domi is ranked as the top prospect attached to an NHL team not in their lineup, and the first will be a top five pick.
Your equation of Kessel = Domi and the 1st does equate.
Be glad to get rid of the headache and salary, and dump him. If you expect a better return then salary will need to beheld.
I don’t believe the Coyotes are entertainming moving Domi or the pick, so your arguement is basically pointless.
Wow…he has 4 goals in his last 25 games.
$8 million sniper.
Kinda ridiculous to consider a 25 game sample of a player on a team in turmoil instead of looking at the last few years of production. I get that you aren’t a fan of Kessel but lets be fair here.
“Since returning from the Sochi Olympics late last February, Kessel has scored just 27 goals in 78 games, including the 21 in 56 this season.” from a Longley article on Feb 14.
How many points? Considering he still has 47 points in 57 games so far this year with a brutal Jan I am not sure how much a bad month on a bad team counts towards a career.
A 7 mill dollar guy has 37 goals in his past 120 games *cough* Bobby Ryan *cough*
I hadn’t seen Ryan’s name mentioned anywhere … but since you brought it up, yes, that was a mistake by Murray. As far as I’m concerned, he plays the game more like a C and is at least a 2-way F. If Cameron had any sense he’d put him at C. But Ryan is not a subject here.
Hi Bmac,
I am starting a hockey team, wilk you be my GM? Please?
Florida leaves TO tonight with Phaneuf, Jokinen, Gardnier and leaves behind 2015 1st, 3rd, Kulikov, Pirri.
Florida has $2.5 million in cap space, ….they are taking on $12 million from Toronto and sending back $4 million?
Tell me…does you dream also include buddles turning elephants and marching?
Not a chance in hell does Florida give up all that for that return.
Jokinen isn’t worth anything next to a bottom tier draft pick. Gardiner is paid as a top 4 dman, yet he is AHL at best at this point.
We know how most feel about Phaneuf.
Plus as mentioned above…salary just does not work.
So let’s turn the tables and give a trade proposal that would work the other way.
Florida leaves TO tonight with Rielly, JVR and the leafs first, not Nashvilles’, and leaves behind Bergenheim, Flieschmann,a 3rd round pick, and Jussi Jokinen…so that the Jokinens can play together even if they aren’t related.
Sound fair?
It’s the kind of one sided crap the Leaf fans spout.
The comparison of the two trades isn’t realistic at all Gary. However, yeah, the trade is far too lopsided in the Leafs favor.
For the initial proposal by Kaboom; No need to ‘exchange’ Gardiner and Kulikov; I’d rather keep Gardiner at this point. Jokinen probably won’t be going back to Florida and is realistically only worth a 6th or 7th rounder if that.
Phaneuf isn’t worth a first especially with Campbell on the Florida roster.
The only way Phaneuf goes to Florida is with Campbell coming back and florida adding a prospect/pick.
But….Campbell brings more to the table than Dion, and is only signed through next year.
If I were Tallon, I wouldn’t do Campbell straight up for Dion.
Been looking at the Flordia angle for Kessel Kessel.
Almost assuredly Bolland would be coming back Toronto’s way in exchange for Phil’s bad contract.
With the money part of things looked after Gudbranson is likely doable.
his bad contract is always mentioned, can you please point out a top 5 scorer who get les? And please don’t bring up Paccioretti, he is on an early RFA deal which is always for less money, his next contract will be in the same neighbourhood as Kessel’s, probably more than Kessel’s.
Well today he is 43rd today, so did 38 people pass him last night?
Vanek brings the same game Phil does for 6.5 M.
Patches is locked up until 18-19 so I don’t think that is a pressing issue. By then Mtl will see if Pacioretty has delivered.
Contract dollars matter. Kessel is not value for dollar spent deal with it. Analytics showed before Kessel was resigned that he was not worth the money.
Sorry, meant top 5 over the last several seasons. He is having an off season but still has 24 goals and I think 44 points on a disastrous season. Are you seriously saying that if Kessel had become UFA he would have been signed for 6.5 or less? I understand you don’t like him, but come on you can’t actually believe that. Scoring has value, his salary is not out of line with comparable players.
Look this is not about disliking Phil. Look everybody else on that end of salary scale is a leader that has a work ethic. Kessel is not a leader. He is a Vanek, a Pavel Bure in other words an incredibly skilled scorer but he has never been a leader.
And yes if Phil would have dug in his heals Toronto should have let him go. Phil got a contract that a Stanley Cup winner should get for just simply making it into the playoffs.
That is just bad business.
the leadership stuff kills me, I can’t say because i’m not in the room so I don’t know how the other players look at him. Is OV a Stanley cup winning leader? I know he makes more than Kessel and was I think -35 last year, but has improved this year. Stamkos won any cups? Crosby has 1. It doesn’t work that you only pay guys after they win a cup or there’d be a lot of cup winning 3rd liners making $7M and a lot of non-cup winning 40 goal scorers making $2M.
Actually Kessel has 21 goals not 24, that is good for 23rd in the league.
Yeah, I clarified that I meant over the last several years, but please just read the part you like.
please show me where you corrected yourself and said he only has 21 goals????????
That’s right you didn’t, so i did
the point was he’s in the top scoring over the last few years. yes, I said 24 goals right after I said he was having an off year. so yes, I said 24 and it’s 21, so ignore the part where I said he’s having a bad year, like I said just read the parts you like.
tmlgm…you only look at the good things kessel does he gets points we get it you love him! but geez he brings very little else to the game! if he gets moved he will get a decent return but its not gonna be as much as a lot of ” leaf lovers” are expecting he is very one dimensional
Yeah Jello, I think you’ve said that a few dozen times. Ok, what is realistic if you are the judge of things?
I think it will be similar to the kesler,seguin and spezza trades! and I have heard you say about kessels points more than a dozen times but you have never brought up anything else about him and that’s what everyone is trying to explain to you
It’s pointless to discuss this with you, you hate the Leafs and just say the same things over and over. If they trade him I guess we’ll see what they get.
Boston got hosed in the Seguin trade, I think everyone is willing to admit that so how do you think that should be the going rate? 1 team gets hosed so they all should?
tml_gm…its no use arguing with you you love the leafs and just keep saying the same things over and over! we will wait and see what happens! I can use the same point you just did!! lol
I have to disagree with you there Russ. Kessel is a much better player than Vanek. I’d be looking a Patrick Kane as a comparable. Similar skill set, age, salary and neither back check very well. Kane has had more playoff success and has better hands, but Phil has more speed and a better release. But the style and point production are there. I’d can see most people taking Kane over Kessel, but it’s a better comparison imo.
Except for the fact Kane is in the top 60 of the league in take-a-ways (Backchecking) and Phil is around 250th.
That is a HUGE difference.
Look at CORSI’s and Offensive and defensive zone time and right there you will see the difference.
You can say Kessel is like Kane all you want but the stats say otherwise.
The stats say he is almost identical to Vanek.
Kessel n Kane comparable?
Wake up lol
Less is lazy n does not take over a game or backcheck.
Can you please point out another top 5 scorer making 8 million per who when he isn’t putting up offense is useless to his team? Fact is if Kessel isn’t putting up points, he brings nothing to the team while most of the others do. His contract isn’t bad for a top scorer but it is bad for someone that doesn’t bring anything else if he goes into a slump. You need an 8 million player to bring more then one thing…faceoffs (yes I know he isn’t a center), hits, toughness, leadership, defense…something!!
How about assists? Over the past few seasons his assists are up close to his goal total, which is an improvement from early in his career. If you flip that whoa re the 40 goal guys who backcheck? the problem isn’t that he, apparently, brings nothing when he isn’t scoring. the problem is the team can’t do anything when he isn’t scoring. it seems to be a specifically Toronto expectation that he be a one man team, he isn’t. Nobody scores every game, the team has to work without relying on that. But Pat Kane isn’t backchecking, or winning faceoffs, or hitting, or scoring every night, but he has a good team to support that.
When I said offense it means assists too. This is about Kessel not the team. If he doesn’t put up points he is useless period. He doesn’t bring anything else to the table for a hockey team. I knew you were going to bring up Kane. I don’t like his contract either. Kane is 2nd on the Hawks in takeaways behind Hossa (yes he has more than Toews). Kessel is 12th on the Leafs. A case could be made that Kane is better defensively and he’s money in the shootouts. So a case can be made that Kane can bring more then just offense. Can you make one for Kessel?
well said krowalled… im not a huge fan of kanes contract either but the 2 cups definitely helps lol
Nope, I said he is a pure scorer with lots of speed. What I am saying is that is what scorers go for. If you’re saying Kane is worth more because he’s godo in shootouts, well maybe that’s why he makes more than Kessel, I don’t know how much value that is as Kessel is undeniably terrible at shootouts. Anyway, I’m not saying he’s the best player in the league, he’s a scorer who makes what a scorer makes. it’s a role a team needs, you can say he’s worthless when he’s not scoring, maybe so but he scores a lot and makes a lot happen in the offensive end, which in my opinion is valuable.
Kane is in the top 60 of the NHL in takeaways…have to say this actually surprises me and he’s tied with a guy like Bergeron and one behind Datsyuk (although Datsyuk has played 13 less games). So he can’t be as bad defensively as people make him out to be. Kessel is 217th in the NHL right now in takeaways for the record. Babcock would hate Kessel. Guys that don’t play a 2way game in Detroit either ends up not playing or playing on the 3rd or 4th line…just ask Weiss. Tatar started last year as a healthy scratch for the first 9 games and then was put on the 4th line for a while with 2 grinders that couldn’t score into an empty net.
I cant believe kane is that high in takeaways either but that says he does something better than kessel when they don’t have the puck
By the way my point isn’t that Kessel is worthless but that the fact that it is the only thing he brings with a high salary drops his value a bit in my eyes and probably in the eyes of NHL GMs. There is also the factor that bringing in a high salary player like that can upset the salary structure a team has. Let say Detroit traded for him and then Nyquist or Tatar get more points then him for some reason…what do you think those guys are asking when their contracts run out? Some teams don’t care about those kinds of things but the Wings do. They likely don’t want to pay anyone more then Datsyuk or Zetterberg unless they bring more to the team then those two do.
Boy oh bboy plus minus and takeaways…lol
so now takeaways don’t matter shticky?? lmao keep flip floppig
Since we are on the topic.
Lets say Kane > Kessel.
I’ll assign arbitrary values to this and lets assume that the values are give or take 1.
Say Kane is ranked a 10 and makes 10 million.
Say kessel is ranked a 7 and makes 8 million.
(we have to be realistic here and can’t just say that Kane becomes an 11 and kessel a 6 – Kane isn’t nearly twice the player Kessel is)
Now lets consider what Kane would get in a trade; assuming a ranking of 10. If your answer is 2 firsts and a prospect on a Value/contract size ratio of 1; then lets apply the same standards to Kessel. Does he become worth only a prospect and 2nd rounder?
He doesn’t……..
Let’s be realistic in trade proposals. The answer isn’t that he is worth 2 firsts and a prospect – but the answer isn’t the other end of the spectrum where people suggest that he is worth nothing and the Leafs would be lucky to unload his contract.
Just for the record, Kessel has never scored 40.
His highest goal totals came in 11/12 & 13/14 when he got 37, and hit 36 in 08/09. Next to that he floats in the low 30’s.
Guess you could refer to him as a 35 goal scorer.
In fact, his yearly average is only 30.3 goals.
I even swayed the numbers for the Leafs. I took total number of games played and divided that by 82, instead of just saying 9 seasons. He has played 643 games. Divided 643 /82 and got 7.8. Rounded up to 8 seasons. I think that is fair.
The lockout year he played 48 games, and has the rest of this season and 3 other seasons where he only played 70 games. That’s why I only counted the 8 seasons as well.
I divided 243 goals by 8 seasons worth of hockey and his average in 30.3 goals per year.
I don’t think he qualifies as a 40 goal scorer.
So a 30-35 goal scorer that has issues, a huge contract, and no defensive cares…..not what I call a huge catch worth multiple big pieces.
Just saying…flame on, friends.
….or you could refer to him as a .79 ppg guy over 600 games, but go on…
The point is, Shticky, that the KLeaf fans ALWAYS refer to Kessel as a “40-goal” scorer……and he isn’t. The numbers back that up.
So a 30 goal scorer, no defense, percieved issues requiring “insulation”, and a huge contract.
Yeah…I can see every team lining up for that mess.
Kessel just sucks for what he is paid, and for what the Leafs gave up for him.
Russ the ship on Bolland has sailed and if the best the Leafs are going to get back is Bolland at a mill more than they wanted to pay them a 4 D man and a prospect that they have enough of like Grimaldi or Trocheck 2 smallish 2 Cs to go along with Kadri Hollad Leipsic Nylander Carrick Smith and the group of smaller centers thst are there it aint happening,. If Bolland was to come back Kessels salary isnt an issue, say what you want about the cap all day but Bollands contract is far and away worse than Kessels, just because its cheaper doesnt make it better or easier. With in 2 years Bolland is a buy out, Kessel wont be.
If Bolland was part of the deal the cost of Kessel would be much higher than what you think it would be, besides the Bonus money I am not sure even Clarksons deal is as bad as Bollands, Bolland has a higher cap hit. They have the same points and Clarkson has 10 goals, Bolland has 3…5 more years of Clarkson 4 more of Bolland which equals about a season and a half of games played for a guy who has missed more games than he has played over the past 2 seasons now.
Huh, I thought Clarkson had the worst contract ever signed in the history of contracts….followed closely by Phaneuff and Kessel.
I am not disagreeing 1 bit that Bolland’s contract is horrible and there is where the player(s) coming back to TO are the quality you want for Kessel.
Gudbranson is that future stud D man the Leafs need. Tallon said earlier this season that he may be willing to part with a couple of his young D men for the right deal.
This is likely one of the very few circumstances where Phil’s value can be realized.
Take Kessel out of the equation Russ…what realistically does a package of Bolland Gudbranson and an AHL center get ya?…only thing I can think of is a dial tomr…it would be similar to a package og Carrick Clarkson and Polak
Gudbranson is a young Johnny Boychuck with a better offensive potential.
Gudbranson was selected third after Sequin and Hall.
Defensemen mature slower than forwards. Look at Mark Giordano in Calgary… Possible Norris trophy candidate at this point and he was never drafted.
Ekblad, Suter and Doughty are freaks in that they were able to be plugged in so quickly. Most D stars don’t find their way until they are 25ish. It is also why their careers last longer.
Gudbranson will be a #1 D one of these days soon so I guess I should ask what is your problem with him?
Russ I live in Kingston, I seen Gudbranson play for 3 seasons before he was drafted…I think he may have put up 20 -25 point with the Fronts in junior he is not ever going to produce points, not that there is anything wrong with that but what you see is what you get with Gudbranson. I was shocked he went that high in the draft.
Looking at it now in his rookie season 22 points in 63 games, sophomore season 23 in 41 games, and 34 in 44 games in his draft year.
Boychuck in Junior had 12 in 66 in his rookie year, 40 in 70 games in his sophomore year, and 26 in 40 games in his draft year.
Gudbranson went to the NHL the next year where as Boychuck stayed in Junior until he was 20 then spent 5 seasons in the AHL.
I think my assessment of Gudbranson was accurate.
Right so leave the comparison out of it for a sec, a guy (Gudbranson) avg 25 points points a game in jr and suddenly he is going to just start to produce? Quit picking and chosing your comparables…look at what the majority of D men who produce at the same level have come to do. He is a good defensive D man, thats fine but it doesnt necessarily mean that they are going to start producig
points. Regher Scuderri Orpik, didnt just suddenly start producing and some such as
Bouwmiester produced less at an NHL level
as their career progressed, generally more
often than a guy like Boychuk. Just because
there is 1 guy out there doesnt mean thats
the normal thing to do, and you continue to
do it, by comparing guys like Gudbranson to
Boychuck and the compare Kessels contract
to Pacoretti’s
Your funny Shticky you expect people to swallow your crap with no relevant data. Then when somebody does put facts, numbers and comparisons in front of you that you don’t like, you throw your toys in the air and yell “YOUR WRONG!”
Sorry does not work that way.
Regeher jr numbers 23 pts 14 pts 34 pts…didnt turn in to boychuk despite being a first round pick
Schenn jr numbers 11 28 29 pts early first round pick not likely to become Boychk
Komisarek early first round pick 13 30 36 points…
Rostislav Klesla 14 24 45 points No Boychuk early first round pick…I could go on and on
and on just because Gudbramson was a big D man drafted early doesnt mean he is the next Boychuk it doesnt mean he gains a scoring touch. More often than not they dont, D men who put up points generally put up big points in junior, Ekblad Rielly Murray Sutter Weber all put up points their whole career it didnt just suddenly happen.
Shticky again.
Gudbranson is a strong skater, has an above average powered slap shot, and has been NHL capable since the age of 18. PPG wise Erik peaked at just over .75 in junior.
Regehr played 64 65 and 54 games with the best ppg at .6 on a loaded Kelowna lineup. Regehr also has a sub par slap shot. BTW Regehr has been a defensive powerhouse since he came into the league.
Luke Shenn 60 72 54 games at just over 0.5 ppg in his best season.
Shenn’s skating has been an issue since he was prospected in Junior.
Klesla and Komisarek never played in the CHL therefore not able to be compared. Klesla again was a poor skater and Komisarek was a marginal NHLer all the way around.
Where are the comparisons to NHLERS with similar skillsets.
Not that it matter Russ you have your mind made up but Klesla played in Brampton, and you say i dont like facts yet look at the excuses your using…if a player plays on a stacked team it would make sense he would put up some points,what difference does it make where they play Junior hockey 7f they are high picks, if you are using the excuse
they are playing weaker competition, would
it not make sense they produce more? Ive
seen a tonne of Gudbranson he will never be
a point producing D man I give you all kinds
of examples that it doesnt necessarily
translate you say I am wrong meanwhile you
produce one example of a guy who has really
come on and act like thats the normal way
things go…you say people overvalue players
then on the next page you say Eberle and
Yaks are probably worth Subban and Price?
Forget it russ Im done banging my head
against a wall, you said all you need to lol
Gudbranson has been compared to Weber, Burns and Suter but I chose to be more consevative.
His scouting reports often mention Stevens and others but I choose to go the middle ground and you grind and grind trying to get others to concede to your personal views.
I notice again that you did not mention why you choose players lacking obvious skills.
It is either intentional or you are a hockey neophyte either way it is not flattering for you.
Russ, your right on Gudbranson and if panthers want to trade the Id do it.
Id trade Kessel + Asset to get him; I’d even trade Morgan Reilly + asset.
I think highly of both leafs (stars not super stars); I watch them every game
I seen Gudbrason one game – I’d trade whole team for him. Id trade whole pittsburg team for him and Ekblund
Not many people have that sort of impact in one game — points aren’t everything
ohh and sthicky right too .. he prob won’t be point producer.
If he plays like I seen 0 points 100 huge hits…by kessel
The only bad thing about Kessel’s contract is the limited no movement clause. Which may hinder the Maple leafs strength in dealing him. There is not a team in the league who would not pay a player that produces how Kessel produces the money that Kessel makes.
The issue now it seems is if one of these teams with cap room is willign to trade for Kessel will kessel accept the move.
OH com’on!!!!!!
There are many teams in the League that wouldn’t touch Kessel in the salary cap era.
Philly, Boston, Habs, Vancouver, LA, Tampa, Washington….
the list goes on and on.
In my opinion, there is maybe 2-3 teams that
a) have the desire to take on Kessel
b) have the cap space
c) Kessel would accept a trade to
He is going to be a hard move in my opinion.
A 30 goal scorer who brings little to nothing in every other aspect of the game…no defense, no leadership, and percieved “issues”
He is cancer. Maybe on the open market more teams would take a shot at Kessel, but given his contract, attitude, trade clause, and an incomplete game….I just can’t see it.
I think that Florida probably has interest in Kessel. They should be looking for scoring. But I don’t know if Kessel is the guy they want to build this young team around. I don’t see how he makes Florida a better team. It’s not like Florida (although improved this year) are light years ahead of Toronto. If Kessel isn’t the guy to build around in Toronto, I’m not sure why he’d be the guy to build around in Florida. Maybe he benefits from the anonymity of a small market?
A small market might help him, but he doesn’t seem to be bothered by the press, they are more bothered by him. Not sure any team would build around him, I think he’s the kind of scoring help you need with an established leadership which I don’t know if Florida has. If he was on a team where he was just expected to go out and score, like Pat Kane is, then I think he’d be hugely valuable. Not that I’m saying any of these teams want/need/could fit him, but he’d probably be best suited on a team like Chicago, Pitt, Ana, SJ where they have strong leadership and he could just play his game. Again for the selective readers I’m not saying he is or should be going to any of those teams, just trying to say the type of situation I think he’d do best in.
Well from my view point if Florida picks Up Kessel he is a piece built around their young Centre’s and that Ekblad guy you may have heard of. Florida will not be building around Kessel like the leafs tried to do. It is never a good idea to build around a winger. Ask Washington how many cup finals they been to building around OV. But When you have good young Centres to build around added a proven Goal scorer like Kessel seems wise to me.
Sorry, wasn’t trying to say Florida wouldn’t work, was trying to make the point that I don’t think you build around a scoring winger…so I guess I agree with you. I think expectations are too high for him to carry Toronto, he’d be better somewhere with a stronger centre group. I’ve said lots of times if Toronto had ever gotten an elite centre the first thing they’d need is a guy like Kessel, and maybe that’s where florida is now.
When I said I wasn’t sure if Floriday had that, I honestly meant I don’t know if Florida has that, I don’t watch them too much. But they are obviously a team trending upwards.
@Jeff,
I completely disagree. When you have a player that is signed to that contract you are forced to build around him. Bjugstad is already getting an increase next year and Huberdeu is a rfa. What happens in 2-6 years from now when all these promising young players are due raises,(Barkov, Ekblad, Kulikov, Gudbranson etc.) ? Florida, unlike some of the other bottom dwellers, seem to be on the right track. I think taking Kessel on helps scoring but hurts their future. And do you really think they are anything other than marginally better tomorrow with Kessel in the lineup?
So by the logic of your arguement would you state a team who acquires Phaneuf would be forced to build around him and not add him to a core already established. I can understand the money Kessel makes hindering your ability to add him to an core you are building around. I don’t see the logic of only building around a player due to his salary.
@Jeff,
I think you just answered that question yourself. Taking on a cap hit of 7-8 million dollars on a team without an established core is FORCING you to build around him. I don’t see the cap growing in leaps and bounds over the next 3-4 years. Kessel or Phaneuf are tough trades to make today. Do you think 3-4 years (when these 18-19-20 year olds are still developing) is going to make it easier if the cap ceiling remains stagnant?
@Jeff
You are bang on. You don’t build around wingers. You build around very talented Centers and D.
Kessel is not the core in Flordia but he would definitely bring the most out of the core.
In regards to Kessel damaging their future they already have that in a contract with Bolland. If Kessel goes to Flordia, Bolland and his contract will come back to TO so in that regard Flordia is in about the same position.
NYR Id also say with some of the guys in the Panthers room Phi isnt the guy…not really in a leadership role, just go out and score
And again as far as Phils contract goes the Leafs could either eat some of it or take back a contract or 2 just cant see giveing him away, there would have to be something in it. Fla will be built around Ekblad Barkov Bujstad not Phil, and with guys like Mitchel Luong Thornton Jokinen and Upshall while they are still there Phil having anykind of leadership role or having to deal with media very much. I could see Kessel actually fitting in well there but again they wont give him away, sure Campbell or Bolland could come back but at that point the contracts are pretty ballanced out (if it was Bolland especially, thats Kessel for 2.5 mill for the next 4 years and very little real money after that) there has to be something in it for the Leafs and players who are ahl guys and spare parts wont be enough. No one is saying that Phil isntexpensive or there wont need to be money held or a contract coming back, of course there will be but at some point if money is close, the next step is to realize the guy is one of the top RW in the game…there is going to need to be some return on that. Ppg inthe playoffs leading scorer in the olympics, nvm the past 3 years being a top guy in the NHL.. All the rest is nonsense one way blah blah blah, he does what he is supposed to score goals and sets up plays better than most. You dont get guys like him everyday, he is gonna cost something
I think Florida could use scoring, and Kessel would help tremendously. But when I say “build around” , I’m not really talking about a leadership role. I mean the structure of his contract makes him a guy you have to build around. Whether they say it out loud or not….it is what it is…. If Kessel were traded to Florida today, he would have the longest most expensive contract on the Panthers. (He and Lou end the same year). The #1 and #2 centers are Bjugstad and Barkov, who both could benefit from time rather than Kessel. I think Florida could bring in cheaper alternatives with shorter term in the off season without risking future cap nightmares. I think sending back Campbell is not going to help Florida. They can wash their hands of him next year. I think the Panthers trading for Phil, will ultimately cost a (or a couple of) Huberdeu, Ekblad, Barkov, Kulikov, Bjugstad etc down the road. I’m not knocking Phil, I’d say the same thing for any young team willing to take on a similar deal of any other player similar to what Kessel will bring. Overall, I don’t think Florida is a better team with Kessel.
Florida is light years ahead. They started rebuilding earlier n Leafs finally taking the plunge. Now that Tallon is allowed to spend the young guns will shine.
kessel to florida makes most sense him by himself or in a pkg of players
kadri and reamer to oilland for yakapov and 2nd rounder this yr
jvr to pens for 2 prospects and downie
BTW
to oilland
gilbert tinordi fucale, prospect and 1st round draft choice
to habs
yakapov, eberle and petry
As much as I’d love to have JVR as a penguin I can’t see the pens making that trade. Plus the pens would have to move salery in that deal to make cap space.
For the 1000th time…if the Oilers had interest in Riemer they would have moved on him by now.
Instead they have chosen Fraith, Scrivens, Bryzgalov and others over Riemer.
He is not an improvemnt over Scrivens in any which way.
At least Scrivens has an NHL record under his belt. Next to that, the two are pretty even.
So why trade for Riemer.
And don’t give me the crap about the Leafs bad defensive play….this is the Oilers who are worse than the Leafs.
Yakopov has been putting up numbers in the last 10 games, and looks inspired to play. He is still very young and the upside is tremendous. I don’t see the Oilers trading Yak anytime soon.
I wouldn’t do the Montreal trade either, as Yak (already stated), Eberle (top line player on a bad team), and Petry will get a nice return at the deadline.
The Habs would love to drop Gilbert, and granted it is a first rounder, but it would be near the Pitts first they got for Perron, and tyrading Eberle away for future prospects is not going to wow the Oiler nation.
Where is the logic on this site? (next to Lyle and some posters who don’t view the NHL is rose colored glasses)
Dallas fans would love Phaneuf… That said for half the salary.
I’m not a huge fan of Phaneufs contract….but 3.5 million? There are 5-6 guys in the league making near that kind of money.
sorry but this trade makes no sense for the oilers. They are at the point they want to start seeing progress, this trade proposal sets them back 3-5 years.
Who plays right wing for the oilers after trading both yak and ebs?
What need does gilbert, tinordi or fucale address? They have good d prospects (maricin/klefblom/nurse) who are just breaking into the NHL this year or in nurses’ case, next. That is 1/2 of the D. They need vets to support them, actually they need a top pairing dman.
The Oilers have a fine goalie prospect in larent brossoit.
AHL Stats this year:
15-9-2 2.55 gaa and 919 save %
by comparison, Malcolm Subban
10-10-3 2.47 gaa and 920 save %
Now I am not saying he will be better a better pro than Fucale or subban, simply stating that a goaltending prospect is not a top priority for Edmonton just yet.
The only way the oilers trade a hall, eberle, or yakupov is if it is in a deal that lands them a top pairing dman or a combo of a starting goaltender and 2 line center.
What is wrong with keeping Phil in Tor for the rebuild? He is still pretty young and is a top 10 scorer. Unless Tor gets back an elite prospect and a 1st round pick it doesn’t make sense to me. Lots of teams have 8 mil players, his contract isn’t that bad. He produces, sometimes not consistent, but who does in this league?
The problem is his production will keep the leafs from truly bottoming out. Instead of picking 1-3 for a couple yrs they end up in the 5-10 range.
Nothing at all but the fans have turned on him and it may seem a poisoned environment for him so perhaps it is best to move on. Also if toronto can’t get a really good package of draft picks and/or young grade A prospects for him they may decide to keep him and work the PR personal hard.
I don’t believe that the fans have truly turned on Phil. It’s never been clearer how much the Leafs rely on Kessel. As soon as he stops producing the Leafs stop winning.
I don’t think the Leafs need to trade Kessel but trading him and getting the expected return is what will help the Leafs in the long term (rebuild).
Now what he is worth is up for discussion. Speculation ranges from a high return like a 1st, top prospect and roster player to a top prospect and a bad contract back. If GMs offer closer to the top of that range then Kessel gets moved; if no one is paying that price then the Leafs hold on till next year’s TDL or draft day 2016 and so on
Mark you have listed the best scenario for the Leafs. Draft a good center, encourage and support Kessel on improving his game/ conditioning.
Then if you are still hell bent on trading him do so when he is having a good season.
The only MUST go this year is Phaneuf to show the team and fans that you are taking a new direction.
Nothin wrong at all Phil stayin put IMO. Bernier n Gardiner has to go.
Kessel gets such limited respect. Swap him for Patrick Kane and watch the Leafs fans+media begin to talk about how over-rated Kane is…
It’s a Toronto thing, people used to talk like this about Sundin, Gilmour Wendel Clark, Darryl Sittler, etc. etc. Booed Larry Murphy off of the ice when he was a Leafs, just the way it is unfortunately.
Your right. However respect is earned. I believe Kessel is better than his critics say he is and Toronto will get a really good package in return for him. Players of his calibre don’t pop up every day. Yet his lack of respect stems from horrid Toronto Management who failed to build the team properly.
Agreed, the problem is not having a good centre to build around in my opinion. I’ve said lots of times if they got an elite centre the first thing they’d need is a guy like Kessel to score 30-40 gals. Even with all the talk I’d rather they kept Kessel short of a great offer. I think it’s time for Dion to go, though I actually think he’s much better than the credit he gets. Franson was on the radio in TO after the trade saying he’d like to resign back here after the season, if they can get him back I would, if they move out Dion….even make Franson captain. I don’t think this team is the total teardown the media says it is, you have guys like Reilly, Kadri, Gardiner , Kessel, JVR…all are young and are valuable. Problem is everyone wants to blow it up every couple of years, so the cycle continues.
I disagree.
The lack of respect comes from the holes in his game for a player paid at the top end of the league.
Add in his personality….which is perceived to be difficult, and you get a one sided player who has “issues”.
An $8 mill player should not need insulating. He should be the face of the franchise, and he should be speaking with the press as a rep of the team should be doing.
That is why Phil doesn’t get the respect of other high paid players.
im kinda with you there, ds, but instead of talking overrated Kane, I’d like to see how celebrated Kessel would be if he had Kane’s spot.
I’d even say the same if Phaneuf were in LA and Doughty in TO that the praises would be way different.
Talk about these “superstars” contracts all you want and how bad it is, but in my belief superstars like Kessel and Phaneuf and Kane and Doughty and the likes are complimentary pieces, not cornerstones. Well worth it if they have an environment that flourishes. If not, your career will be an individualized and victimized. Regardless what environment you are tossed into. Forest before the trees that the masses of dummies REF– USE to focus on.
Ummmm, actually Doughty is a cornerstone piece and was one of the main reasons the Kings won TWO cups and Canada won TWO golds at Olympics. Please don’t put Doughty in the same sentence as Kessel and Phaneuf, he is so far above those two its a huge insult, and to compare him to Phanuef shows how delusional Leafs fans are. WOW!
Actually what is delusional is taking one person’s comment and attributing it to every single leafs fan.
Everyday day I come on here and read the most ridiculous trade scenarios ever imagined, and Guess what tml_gm? Every single one of them are from Leafs fans, and its not just one or two of you, its every god damn one of you.
OK, where’s my delusional trade? I did say if I were Edmonton I wouldn’t trade my first round pick to Toronto, am I delusional?
No tml-gm you are not delusional, that’s actually a very smart comment, but I don’t have an archive of all your comments, so I can’t say the same for the other days. You know what though? read the comments today and tell me how many dumb, delusional Leafs comments there are? Then you will see what I’m talking about.
There are a couple that aren’t realistic from Toronto, there’s one unrealistic from Florida. yesterday someone suggested Lac and Higgins for Reinhart and a 2nd or Lac and Biexsa for Druin…nobody spouted off about all Vancouver fans or all florida fans. If you don’t like something why can’t you respectfully comment on it? Dont’ lumpe veryone together, and if it makes you that mad why are you reading?
Leafs fans are as delusional as you are with Leaf hate sometime Canadian King. Lets have a look at the supporting cast for Doughty both forwards and Defensemen…..
Also, lets not bunch up all Leaf fans as one entity – respond to the guy making the proposal. You aren’t the be all know all that is hockey, I don’t need to look far back to know what you considered Richard’s value at and where he is now.
You don’t know everything and your radar has been proven to be off
Just one thought. When most teams rebuild they do not hit the salary cap as the roster should be filled with cheap prospects on entry level deals. In theory this should leave a lot of cap space to absorb bad deal/large contracts for 3-4 seasons. A rich rebuilding teams like the Leafs could afford to eat bad contracts for assets. If the rebuild works as hoped the bad contracts will expire as the prospects become RFAs.
Brandon
even thou the leafs are rich they have very little cap space to play with so before they acquire drafts choices and prospects they have to get rid of some of those big contracts which are very hard to do unles you take a bad contract back
just saying
Many people talk about the Leafs taking on parts of Kessels and Phaneuf’s contracts in order to trade them. Now both run for another 6 years so that is between the 2 of them 7 m or so being paid when your young core is starting to become UFA’s.
IMO the Leafs should try and avoid that scenario.
Spot on Russ!
It also becomesa matter of what’s the point.
The Florida speculation with Kessel going and Bolland coming back to Toronto….
Shticky said the difference in salary is about $2.5 per.
For a rebuilding team, the $2.5 is not that important, and even I am not blind to the fact that Bolland is a major stepdown from Kessel.
The Leafs would be better off to keep Kessel, hope he finally hits 40 goals, and gets moved in a year or two with no salary held.
It’s like the Lecavalier. All the speculation that the Flyers where going to hold $2 million in salary and send a prospect to rid themselves of VLC.
What’s the point? A buy out would cost the same or less annually on their cap, and they wouldn’t have to lose the other player/ pick/ prospect.
Sometimes it just doesn’t make any sense to get rid of the player.
russ/tml_gm would u make this trade or what would u want to make it happen
Grundarson #44 ,Howson plus flip of first round draft picks , Campbell to Toronto
florida gets back kessell ,a prospect and Toronto’s 2nd round draft 2015
then flip JVR to Pittsburgh for 2 prospects (Pouliet) being one of them and Downie
That’s a bad deal for the Leafs.
Toronto needs as early a first round pick as they can get. They need a Center.
Toronto does not have a 2nd rounder as it was traded to Columbus for Frattin.
The most likely scenario I see is Kessel and a B level prospect for Gudbranson and Bolland and then picks going either way to balance (Picks will not be first rounders on TO’s end)
so we can change it up by putting bolland in the deal and you putting lupul in the deal and forgetting the flip of the first rounders and me giving you a 2nd rounder to balance the trade out
Not enough value for Flordia. Kessel is younger and more skilled than Lupul. By taking Bolland back on Kessels deal you are nullifying the problems with Phil’s contract… Kessel makes that crazy money for 6 years more. Bolland’s contract only runs for 4 more years.
Neither contract is pretty…. Now talent wise you are trading Kessel for Gudbranson and Bolland for a B level prospect …
From my perspective I think both teams get fair value. In Gudbranson you are trading for tomorrow and his potential and in Kessel Flordia is trading for today. Then both sides get a bag of pucks to play with.
true russ but I want kessell and don’t want bolland or Campbell so youre helping me out
and yes im trading for next year not 3 yrs down the road so im good
Matt I have been saying to get proper value for Kessel the Leafs should keep him.
Now if people are going to insist on the idea of trading him I will try to be as objective as possible.
Tallon like any other GM contacting the Leafs on Kessel are bargain hunting.
As things sit right now that is about the best offer TO will receive in regards to Phil.
ty Russ now if they pull that trade off if im talon I ship lupal out before he hits the ground and gets injuried to the first team that offers a prospect and draft choice 2nd or 3 rd
russ second trade
to edmonton
Gilbert , Tinordi , Bounirval, Fucale and 2015 1st rounder and a conditional pik if the habs resign Petry
to Montreal
Petry , eberle and yakupov
Eberle and Yak have been on fire lately.
Everything they are showing says they are committed to being in Edmonton. The kids are getting scrappy and that’s good for Edmonton.
So until you put Price and PK on the block it is not going to happen.
@Russ
Price + PK to get Yak and Eberle? Price is one of the best goalies in the world and is only 27. PK already has a Norris. There is nothing on Edmonton even remotely worth either. I don’t care how good Eberle + Yakupov + Hall + RNH apparently are, they haven’t even been able to lead their team to consistent winning streaks, never mind the playoffs or top of the conference like Price has.
Bergevin would need a that absolutely blows his socks into the next millennium to consider trading Price + Subban. It would need to be a deal that reaches levels that we’ve never seen. Something absolutely ridiculous like Hall + RNH + Draisaitl + Yak + this years first + several other picks and assets.
The Habs would be near the bottom of the conference without Price. The Oilers are at the bottom of their conference with all of those guys. Eberle + Yakupov are not worth Price’s used jock strap.
There is too much unknown potential in both Eberle and Yak to trade them right now. So if I was forced to it would be for the absolute maximum.
Both are responding to the new coach and are doing what is being asked of them.
I am not as sold on Hall.
Did you just seriously suggest that Yaks and Eberle for Price and Subban is somehow equal value? Ya Leaf fans are delusional.
Never said it was equal but the trade has the potential to turn into a Cam Neely situation so I would make sure I could not lose the trade.
I suggested O’Reilly for Yandle back in the shortened season (three years ago) during O’Reilly’s first contract dispute with the Avs. That’s the time the trade should have probably happened if there was one to be had.
I agre that Kessel is having a bad year and has checked out, like the rest of the team. All I’m saying is his salary is not out of line for what he brings, I would expect a decent return but am not sure they should trade him. Your point about salary structure is correct, but I don’t think Kessel is the problem with Toronto, I think Phaneuff is making too much, which is why they couldn’t resign Franson. Anyway, my point is that he is an elite scorer, and though he has bad defensive numbers on a bad defensive team I don’t think his salary is out of whack or that there won’t be a good return, if traded.
you just said why kessel wont get what your thinking!! an 8million dollar play just checked out!!? what gm is gonna give a lot up for someone the checks out and makes 8million??
Wow, what a fantastic point. The entire team isn’t playing and hasn’t been since the new year. They are not a happy team and have nothing going right for them right now, it does not make them worthless, as shown by the Franson/Santo trade.
oh, and by the way you are the only one insisting that i’m saying they are going to get a great return for him. I think they’ll get a good return, more than Boston got for Seguin because Kessel is a higher caliber player than Seguin was at the time of that trade. Everyone knows Boston lost that trade. but I’m not saying they will get the 1st overall pick for him or anything like that, and for about the 5th time today I’ll say that I don’t even think Toronto should trade him.
Seguin didn’t have $48 million remaining on his contract.
Huge difference.
TML any player that checks out has to be considered as being worth less. It is a character issue. Iggy is a good example in Calgary. Though things were not going well at all he brought his A game each and every day.
That is why Flames fans wished him well and still continue cheering for him.
exactly russ when an 8million dollar player mails it in it doesn’t say much for him! and what does it say to the young players on the team? he wont get as much as what boston hosed them for that’s for sure lol
Now I’m not really advocating moving Bernier but I have said before it depends on his salary demands and what if anything you can get back in a trade. But what about a package of Bernier and phaneuf to say Dallas or Edmonton for something like Brett Ritchie, a young d man and a 3rd. Possibly throw in a contract like hemsky or Purcell.. Both teams do need a guy like phaneuf and goaltending.
Aki if the Leafs are rebuilding Bernier becomes expendable for the right price. Bernier has gotten a rough ride recently in the press and such but he like Dubnyck has an atrocious defense in front of him.
Many GM’s would be interested…. Anaheim comes to mind as does SJ.
Totally. My thoughts exactly. My proposal was more aimed towards packaging phaneuf to get value and rid of the contact.
I think you maximize your returns by dealing Bernier by himself. Yes you might not get much from Phaneuf solo but if you can get a bidding war going from teams that need a goaltender like NYR, SJ, and Anaheim you may do very well.
Yes I made a leap with NYR as it does not appear at this point to be much of an issue but it is a neck injury and those can be dangerous.
Talbot has played very well as the back-up in NY since Biron retired.
With Hank the #1 and tied up for a long contract, Talbot is more than a great backup.
Oh yeah, the Rangers are 7-2-1 in their last 10 games, and Hank has missed the last 8 of those.
I don’t think the NYR need a goalie right now.
I am not a Leafs fan but Kessel is paid exactly what he’s worth. He could get more on the open market possibly if it weren’t such a cap crunch for most teams. Someone said he’s like Pavel Bure and not worth the money. Well Pavel Bure woyld get $15 mill if he were playing today. You Leafs fans place too much value on intangibles. Phil is a one dimensional player who just happens to be really good at the most difficult dimension there is: scoring goals. I look forward to when you trade him for leadership and two way players who can’t win games by themselves. Bolland and Mike Richards certainly fill your need for those things.
Your whole arguement contradicts itself. He could get more on the open market if it weren’t such a cap crunch… ???
Fact there is a definative salary cap. Bure in his best years in the league as it is today would be lucky to hit 45 which would put him on par with his countryman Ovie which would yield him 9.5 M cap hit.
Now to repeat, I said he was like Pavel from the perspective that Bure was not a team leader, a little bit selfish with his points, and refused to adapt his playstyle to help the teams he was on but nobody can deny how Pavel could electrify an arena. Just like Ovie can today.
Phil does not do that.
Phil has yet to hit 40 goals.
Phil does not play himself to the fans as that star… and yes that is part of what Pavel and Ovie get paid for.
Pavel had a cup run n B2B 60 goal seasons. I sais the 2 Nuvks trades yesterday. Noth were favouring the Nucks nut anyone could tweak them.
Kessel/Bernier Yandle/Smith
Phaneuf/Lupul ROR/Briere
Gardiner Coutiuiere
Off season trade suggestion
To SJ – Kessel, Gardiner
To Tor – Marleau, Hertl , Mueller , 2015 2nd pick
Leafs ask for Couture , settle on Marleau ( if he agrees to waive NTC ).
Does anybody pay remote attention to the salary cap when dreaming up deals?
SJ would be taking on over $12 million in salary, and giving up two young prospects on ELC and Marleau, who, by the way, is nearing the end of his career and unlikely to want to spend it on a rebuilding team.
How does picking up 36 year old Marleau help the rebuilding Leafs? Why would SJ want to give up a 60+ point scorer plus two solid youngsters for a guy who will get 15-20 more points and play absolutely zero defense and a $4 million+ defensemen who hasn’t exactly panned out as expected? Why would they want to give up Hertl + Mueller to boot?
SJ does this to win sooner than later. Marleau is what you would call a good mentor , something the Leafs lack right now. Yes he is up there in age but he still has game. Hertl is going into his last year ELC so he is due to earn more after next year.
SJ are sound enough defensively to take on some offensive minded players……and the numbers work cap wise.
Lebrun on ducks says
“But I would venture to say that an addition on defense is the top priority. The team hasn’t played well defensively of late and that’s a concern. ”
Can I interest you in a phaneuf and bozak ?
Also on kessel
If Horton is indeed done. Does Columbus use that salary to bring in another winger. Could a kessel-johanssen dpi make sense?
I can see Kessel in CBJ but Johannsen is a stud C n is goin nowhere
It was supposed to say duo as in playing on the same line. In no way was I thinking a trade of kessel for johnanssen
Dynamic Duo but cannot see how it could happen. Trade for ROR is best option for C IMO
Again I don’t think you are reading it properly or I am not saying it properly. Kessel to CBJ to play with johanssen. They have some good young players and would have a decent first this year.
Bruins trade Subban Erriksson and one of there 2nd round picks for Eberle.
What is Chia waiting for. Is this a go for it now team or not. If not move the veterans.
If so move Subban,spooner,Koko picks and get a top RW.
Call Edm and get Eberle. I Don’t care if it costs Subban,Kelly,Eriksson,Bartkowski,Soderberg both second rounders.
Imagine if we still had Boychuck bet we could get more than two seconds.
Bruins should hold on to Subban also Bergy Marchy,Rask an Pasta the rest should be trade bait!
Bruins r deep in tradeable assets no doubt. Cap issues means all Eastern teams wanna squeeze PC. Its a poker game n looking west is highest chance if any moves.
Who does PC move n what in return?
Gordie what trade able assets do they have without blowing up their team besides Pasternak and Subban what prospects
besides they do have cap issues
just sayin
I listed what i believe Western teams need. Bruins have many assets but gotta give away talent somewhat to gain cap space. Delends on the trade partner n i could propose an offer.
Okay, I’ve been an avid reader of the rumors on this website for the past couple of years and there have been a couple things that I have come to terms with.
It seems to me that Leafs fans either over value/under value their players so much it is out of this world. With regards to the Florida Panthers. There is not a snowballs chance in hell that you’re going to get one of Barkov, Huberdeau, Bjugstad (Ekblad is a given) in return for Phil. Gudbranson I probably would not expect either. If Tallon parts with a young defensemen it is likely to be Kulikov or one of the 2 young buds playing at Boston College right now (Matheson or McCoshen). Salary would have to go back to the Leafs to make it work and Florida has players like Jussi Jokinen, Upshall, Fleischmann all with high dollar tags. I don’t think Bolland or Campbell are being moved either due to the fact that Campbell has been great with Ekblad and Bolland they love when he is healthy as their shutdown guy. IF a deal happens I would expect it to be a deal where Toronto acquires 4-5 pieces in the deal (much like the Spezza one).
Kessel (8M)
for
Kulikov (4.3M)
Fleischmann (4.5M)
2015 1st round pick
+ 2 of
Trocheck/Grimaldi/Pirri/Matheson/Petrovic/Mccoshen
There might be some kind of prospect that Toronto sends back that they may have given up on like a Tyler Biggs. But if a deal occurs I see it being along these lines, no Bolland, Campbell or one of the young kids.
Like many have said Kessel is a scorer, who is not reliable defensively, doesn’t hit. We know what Phil cannot do. But we also know what he can do, and that is put a puck in the net. One thing that he needs to be successful is a good center (I’m sorry, but Bozak is not a #1 center capable of player against oppositions top players). Playing with a young kid like Bjugstad/Barkov should benefit both as they are defensively responsible and good young two-way players and that SHOULD rub off on the players the play with.
Regardless of what happens, I think this will be very intriguing to watch as it unfolds.
PS. I’m an Avs fan, GO AVS GO lol
Im with you hilch I compared something along the lines of the spezza,seguin or kesler deal! get ready for the leaf fans to stomp on it lol
West:
Preds – bottom 6 Vet
Blues – bottom 6 F
Hawks – cap room
Jets – bottom 6 F
Ducks – top 4 D backup goalie
Canucks – Top 6 RW D depth
Flames – F n D depth
SJ – retool in the fly
LA – Top 4 D n cap room
Wild – bottom 6 F
Rest of the West:
Avs – Top 4 D
Stars – Top 4 D
Oilers – 2 top 4 D top 2 C n G
Phoenix – rebuild seller/buyer
The East i’m lilmited on all the team needs:
TB – Top 4 D n backup G
Habs – depth
Pens – Top 6 W
NYI – bottom 6 F n D depth
NYR – bottom 6 F
Wings – top 4 D
Bruins – top 6 W
Caps – bottom 6 F
Florida – top 6 W
the rest r rebuilds or retools
Was at Bruins practice yesterday. I can’t believe how old Seidenberg has got. He looked a touch out of place yesterday and probably for much of season. Sad to say, but Seids is the guy they need to move for cap relief.
That and Kelly are the only bad contracts. Eliminate them is 7.5 million off the books. Problem solved.