Could the Red Wings buy out Stephen Weiss and pursue Dion Phaneuf? Which Stars might not return to Dallas next season? Read on for the latest.
Will the Red Wings buy out Weiss, pursue Phaneuf?
Has Stephen Weiss played his final season with the Detroit Red Wings?
MLIVE.COM: Ansar Khan speculates on the possibility the Detroit Red Wings could buy out the remaining three years and $16 million on center Stephen Weiss’ contract. They might try trading Weiss, though it could mean picking up a portion of his salary. Khan also suggests the Wings might revisit their trade talks for Toronto Maple Leafs defenseman Dion Phaneuf, which fell through at this year’s trade deadline. The Leafs declined picking up part of Phaneuf’s $7 million-per-season salary and had requested prospect Anthony Mantha. They also balked at taking back a toxic contract like Weiss’ in the deal. The Wings could also use Brendan Smith or Jakub Kindl as trade bait for blueline help.
THE DETROIT NEWS: John Niyo reports the Wings still need to add a top-four defenseman who can man the point on the power play, plus another big forward or two to help the Wings undersized scorers. Niyo also notes the Wings must shed Stephen Weiss’ salary, either via buyout or perhaps packaged with some young talent for Toronto’s Dion Phaneuf. While GM Ken Holland stated his intent to retain goalie Jimmy Howard, Niyo isn’t ruling out a trade after July 1 when Howard’s no-movement clause softens.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: If trading Weiss is out of the question a contract buyout before June 30 seems likely. As there’s no more compliance buyouts, the cost to the Wings’ cap space will be $1.067 for next season and 2016-17, $2.567 million in 2017-18, followed by $1.667 million per season from 2018-19 through 2020-21. It’s understandable why Holland likely prefers trading Weiss, even at the cost of picking up part of his remaining salary.
Which Stars might not return in 2015-16?
THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS: provides a look at which Stars players might not return next season. Among the possibilities are goaltenders Kari Lehtonen and Jhonas Enroth, defenseman Jamie Oleksiak and twice-suspended winger Ryan Garbutt. Forward Shawn Horcoff is a UFA and unlikely to be re-signed. Rich Peverley (heart condition) is expected to retire for health reasons. Among their potential free agent targets this summer are Washington’s Mike Green and Joel Ward, Buffalo’s Andrej Meszaros, San Jose’s Antti Niemi, Winnipeg’s Michael Frolik, Montreal’s Jeff Petry and Chicago’s Johnny Oduya.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Goaltending is a key issue for the Stars this summer. They could add Niemi but only if they ship out Lehtonen. They could use another experienced top-four defenseman and could get into the bidding for Green or Petry. I think GM Jim Nill prefers to go the trade route rather than take on too much salary via free agency.
I read Mantha isnt progressing as well as hoped for maybe they will trade him now,
Mantha, 20, had 15 goals in 62 games for AHL Grand Rapids during the regular season. He has just one assist in five playoff games.
http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dgzrM
Geee I dont know, they always have Jacob “big trade bait” Kindl to fall back on he is sure to bring in a solution to their problems…I love Holland as a GM and think ya he is probanly best in the league but come on man do you think another GM in the league is going to be doing you any favors? You want to make a deal then offer something up. No one is just giving players away. lol
As a Wings fan, I gotta agree. I always see Kindl and Brendan Smith being listed as potential trade bait, and I fail to see why. They both have the occasional flash of brilliance, but it’s not enough to even warrant a spot in the lineup consistently, so what exactly does Kenny think he’s gonna get back for them?
Johnny Oduya seems the best fit for The wings defense, as Brendan Smith seems to have leveled off and maybe reached his high water mark.
I am pretty sure the Blackhawks would love to keep Oduya with a small salary bump since he rounds off one of the bet top fours around. That seesm to be up to Oduya and the Hawks willingness to subtract elsewhere as in Patrick Sharp (one yr left) and still re-sign valuable commodities of Brandon saaad and Marcus Kruger. I don’t think the recent Cap projections are going find all that many clubs willing to do “half-sies” (sp) and retain contract…unless they are getting back youngster that truly have a chance to contribute and eventually be NHL regulars. Tallon took half the Versteeg contract but he got kids that play regularly.
Maybe we are going to be getting back to time when 3 for 4 NHL player trades will be the way to go. A team gives up the fat contract (Weiss) but also a prospect AND a Brendan Smith who COULD inprove some teams backline in some phases.
They take back two fat vets (and their over 30 deals) who plug and play and maybe improve areas of deficiency and maybe a long term prospect.
Just saying, with a pretty thin UFA class, despite the fact that we continually see the GMs feeling a compulsion to overpay UFAs b/c they feel they can’t patch the leaks from inside the farm prospects, will GMs be a bit more willing to trade “their guys?” Just wondering.
This was the first season in a few years that Lehtonen played that weak. I don’t think Jim Nill will panic. He’ll probably retain Lehtonen but have some sort of backup plan to quickly execute if Lehtonen falter in the first half next season. Whether that means preparing by shoring up no2 goalie position or aquire a bonafide goalie prospect or simply try to trade Lehtonen when the time comes, I don’t know. I don’t think Nill will go the route of trading Lehtonen before the summer and try to hunt for replacements and all that for one bad season.
What about Campbell that they drafted a few years back. Wasn’t he suppose to be the next great American goalie? How is he progressing?
Cambpell just beat the Russians at the world championships.
As far as Anthony Mantha, he has put some weight on, and people are always gonna bring up the 50 plus goals in junior as the starting point in his evaluations.
http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/anthony-mantha/18915/
The thing is, he has showns signs of working on his whole game” but still has lapses which were there when I wrote that elvaluation above. The guy has to be as willing to go get and feed the puck to teammates as his all his teammates have been getting it to him.
Things take time to click, and I doubt the Red Wings one of the most patience propsect developers, to wait.
Just look at the way they invested and waited for Teemu Pulkkinen, and even the slower tracts Tomas Tatar & Tomas Jurco were on.
The fact that you never saw Landon Ferraro, their early 2nd rounder in 2009 until the end of this last season and post season despite veteran injuries is a testament to using all the time you can to let them percolate.
I’d think Shanahan may want to revisit that discussion with Holland, both can give a bit to get something done.
If Holland wants to offload his own toxic contract in Weiss, and get a 2/3 spot defender in Phaenuf back, then it rational for Shanahan and co. to ask for a top prospect in Mantha and another mid range pick to get it done.
Phaenuf isn’t amazing, but he is good. He gets dumped on for not being Weber, and for the mistakes he makes when he’s overextended. In Detroit, he’d have a great year slotted properly.
Well put, I couldn’t agree more. He can be effective. He just needs to be used properly.
Sounds like the Leafs wanted Mantha for Phaneuf and didn’t want Weiss or salary.
Wings wanted either the Leafs to eat salary or take back Weiss.
So, yeah, as you said, split the difference.
Leafs get Mantha, but take back Weiss (a lot of negative value) plus a 2nd/3rd. Or swap in Larkin and no picks.
Detroit will not give up Mantha for Phanuef. Why would we take on a 7 million contract for a prospect only a year ago was highly reagarded. Phanuef is overpaid for what he is and why would Detroit take on Tornto’s mistake. If you want Detroit to help the Maple Leafs then Mantha is off the table. On this site I hear Toronto fans bash Phanuef now they want the moon for him. I see Detroit taking his contract on but only if they accept Weiss and a prospect not named Mantha or Larkin. Detroit could buyout Weiss, sign Green and loss nothing. and have cap to spare. Toronto is dealing from a disadvantage.
Nice post Mike A, you hit several nails squarely. I don’t think anything happens in Detroit without the Wings buying out Weiss, especially if Tronna won’t hold any of Dion’s current salary.
Dion in Detroit would give Leaf fans several opportuinities per year to boo him, much like their booed McCabe. Both players were guilty of nothing more than signing the contracts the Leafs put in front of them.
If Holland plans on buying out Weiss regardless the argument is moot, but as Detroit already tried to trade Weiss to Toronto for Phaenuf, it isn’t.
It’s unlikely the same deal will re-emerge as things shift constantly, but Detroit values Phaenuf, even if many here do not.
I just don’t get all the love this rumor gets. Why would Detroit want yet ANOTHER second-pairing D-man? They already have 4 of them in their top 4. As much as I love Kronwall, he’s even best suited for the second pairing, or filling in for an injury. Dion is the same thing. Yes, he can play the minutes, but why would Detroit want to add yet ANOTHER version of what they already have plenty of?
I still say Dion’s deal is poisenous becuase of the term. Too many years left and he’s not getting any better.
I Think thete are ways to make money work the thing I see as the biggest issue would be Dion is left handed, besides that Id love to see a Kronwal Phanuf pairing…talk about head on a swivel, it wiuld be fun to watch…for a while at leas lol
Isn’t Detroit dealing from a disadvantage as well? 3 players have been named here who Detroit wants to get rid of but they expect what bobby Orr in return?
It’s not just leaf fans, it’s certain fans in general who over value their players
Every one who leaves Toronto gets better !
Mantha was picked 20th overall I believe . If the Wings don’t want to give up on Mantha, Leafs will take the Wings first rounder which is is approximately the same position (19th) in this years draft and take on Weiss’s contract as well.
Who is more serviceable-Weiss or Lecavallier. Same term but Vinny’s is lower $. One could predict Vinny may be more productive over the bext few years. Plus there is a chance he will retire before the final year.
I heard a rumor last week that Carolina might be willing to deal their 1st round pick in this years draft. Does anyone see them having any interest in Kessel? I wonder if they would do a Ward & their 1st round pick & a prospect for Kessel & Bernier? Bernier comes cheaper than Ward does, Kessel might look good beside Staal.
I can see Phil In Carolina. I would have to assume that Semin would be part of any package and as a Leaf fan, I don’t feel great about that. Even if it were Semin and their first coming back I still don’t know. Term is shorter but Semin is junk now, especially without a legit centre. Thoughts?
I would never suggest such a deal. Semin is a toxic player not just a toxic contract. That is why I suggested Ward & prospect coming for Bernier. The prospect covers the salary dump that Carolina wanted to do at the deadline.
Crazier things have happened, but I just don’t see Toronto willing to hand Kessel to Carolina like that. Ward isn’t the same goalie he was 5 years ago, and Semin is toxic from all fronts. Why would Toronto want those and a 1st and a prospect for their best offensive player and a potential #1 goalie? If Carolina’s GM pulls that deal off, he’s GM of the decade.
Semins contract is widely considered the worst in the league at the moment. The only chance to rid themselves of it is to buy him out. I’m not so sure the owner is so happy about that but they may have no choice.
A trade is out of the question really. Carolina would have to package Semin with a substantial prospect or high pick for anyone to even look at it. I doubt such a scenario has any legs. Is there any precedent for such a trade? It has been theorized but never materialized. I remember Islanders was close to trading DiPietro at one time, just before he got his buyout from them. To avoid the huge buyout, Islanders apparently tried to package him with some high prospect/-s they would give away also. But it fell through somehow as Islanders bought him out soon after that.
I cannot see Semins future other than a buyout. KHL is less of an alternative nowadays also. (because of the weak rubel)
I saw that too, the possibility, I believe, was flurry (sp), this years first and semin for Kessel and a prospect. Let’s mess with this one and say…
Kessel, bernier and a third for…
Carolinas first, lindholm, a second, semin and ward.
Toronto can take salary back, but by doing so Carolina needs to drop a second.
It’s fun to post crap like this but to be fair, Carolina needs defence more than scoring. I’d do a phaneuf and a prospect for Carolinas first and a toxic contract. People can bash phaneuf as much as we want but he is miles more valuable than semin.
In Toronto they can just make him feel so unwelcome he goes back to Russia.
Phaneuf is more well rounded than Green, though both would be aided by more defensive sound line-mates in DET. And I take Vinny all day over Weiss. I would take Vinny now over Weiss’ prime. Weiss just has not been that effective ever in my eyes. And got high ice-time in FLA due to expected-but-unrealized potential. That ship has now sailed.
Phaneufs salary is still not that bad. It is high today, as intended, but expected to be market value in a couple years. I don’t think he was worth the 6.5m he already had. But home teams rarely (if ever) decrease salary offerings, in order not to disgruntle their players, even if it is true. Bad cap management that they don’t seem to learn from. Most people can’t accept hard truths.
Phaneuf is getting the brunt of negativity because as Captain he was unable to lead the team to a turn-around. Because the team’s deficiency was pretty in-line with his own. He is not a horrible defender, but he rarely had the support himself and the discipline not to ‘cheat’ or over-compensate on a play which resulted in the team getting beat more often then not.
The team had bad chemistry, but as Capatin, he goes down with the ship. The Leafs would be wise in their current environment to take back Weiss, even though he is just this side of useless, just to get the prospect. Phaneuf’s void could be filled by a more defensively sound D with respectable skill while they build. Like Petry.
That outs them ahead, if they can get it done.
The RESET is what is need at this point,(almost) more than the assets.
if carolina trades their pick i think it would be to trade down and pickup multiple assets.
Kessel s value in a trade would be a 1st (not in the top 10) a second line winger and a good prospect .
. i think Semin is untradeable but combined with the 4th could be moved .ward could be moved if you hold salary or at next years trade deadline .if the canes could get two young players for the pick on its own it might help them better right now but why not just make the selection .
Came across a new capgeek today seems pretty good, still not as good as the original but definitely better than some of the others out there…
http://www.generalfanager.com
The draftpick tracker in tools is kinda neat.
Regarding Weiss in Detroit. If they buy him out and get stuck with a cap hit of 2.6 million in one of the seasons, would it not make sense to just keep the guy (unless Detroit NEEDS that 3 million of cap space) is Detroit going to find a guy at 3 million to do what they want Weiss to do and then have a cap hit of a guy that plays for another team for a couple extra years?
Is there cap relief for waiving a guy to the minors?
How much?
Sometimes buy outs make sense, just not sure with what seems like a bit of a youth revival and probably no real high 3nd contracts for the next three years that Detroit would want that 2.6 million cap hit for one of the years that Weisse would be under contract.
Buyouts are more complex than “he sucks! Buy him out.”
Just random thoughts from my head ….. peace!
Detroit shouldn’t buy him out. The thing is’ they will have to throw in a good pick to get rid of him. Getting phaneuf and say, levio for weiss, a first and someone not named mantha or Larkin Detroit should jump all over it
Before Holland makes any trades, he needs to know who the coach will be because that could make a huge difference on player movement. If Babcock stays then they have to get rid of Weiss, Kindl maybe even Jurco and Smith. If he goes I would say to keep those guys as they might have a chance to contribute with a coach that doesn’t hate them or put them in situations that they pretty much have no chance to succeed. Babcock might be one of the best coaches but I’ve never seen a coach more stubbornly try to hammer a square peg into a round hole then he has with those players mentioned.
If I am the rebuilding Leafs I wouldn’t care about eating Weiss’s salary as long as they get prospects. A rebuilding team should have a lot of cap space in theory. Maybe Weiss finds his game / get enough minutes to put up nice accumulated stats and create value for himself.
As for Phaneuf, keep him in Toronto or send him somewhere else. Personally I don’t want him in Detroit at all. “In a couple of years his contract won’t be so bad because of salaries rising” some say…well his game isn’t going to get better with age. He’s overpaid now and will still be overpaid in a couple of years (even with salaries rising) when his game goes down the toilet. Heck I would say his defensive game is already there.
As for Mantha, his injury at the prospect tournament set him back for this year. Even with Devellano’s stupid comment, I don’t see them trading him now. If he struggles next year, then maybe they will start to think about it.
As for Howard, I think if Dallas could get rid of Lehtonen’s contract, Nill (the guy who drafted Howard) would be more than happy to get him from the Wings. Plus he knows he could likely get him for cheap in terms of trade.
Yeah, just like 4th Hanson brother, I’m concerned about Dions term. Money could be absorbed but will there still be value 3-4 years from now (going on 7)? Detroit should stay away. Red Wings have the Franzen situation to worry about also. It doesn’t look good for him. Poor bastard. That serious concussion problems is never fun. It’s hard to enjoy the Million$ in his shoes.
Howard would be very cheap in any trade. But I have my doubts that there will be any taker for him… 4 years left at $5.3M? That’s pretty bad… The difference in goaltending isn’t that big in 2nd and 3rd tier goalies (without naming names). It’s more about goalies going hot and cold for periods of time. IMHO similar, cheaper goalies are available in trade or UFA. Nill would be smarter to explore those avenues.
I agree cheaper options (in terms of salary) are available this summer but a lot of them are not really guys proven to be able to be a starter for a full season. The price to trade for them might also be a bit more costly. Nill might go a cheaper route but he does know that Howard is a capable starter in the NHL and I’m sure he knows him well personally too. If he can’t do a couple of upgrades to his defense, he might think about changing his goaltending…maybe he looks to do both.
Agreed – if Dion was on a 3 year deal the leafs could move him, easily. He would good in a 2nd pairing on alotta teams. Not as the top dog.
What I see is the Red Wings going for Mike Green/Cody Franson. I don’t see Johnny Oduya as being the top pair D man/Power Play Quarterback they need. If they fail to land one of those two then I see a need to push more for Phaneuf but NOT for Mantha or Larkin.
They will try to unload Weiss or buy him out. He could go in a deal for Phaneuf. It is possible that even if they do get Green or Franson as UFA that they still deal Weiss and a bottom 6 D man(Kindl/Smith?) for Phaneuf. They may add a pick/prospect if Toronto picks up 1-2 mill of his salary. They could even expand on the deal if they get Kadri to play on their 2nd line. However I think that in this case Toronto would want either Mantha or Larkin in the deal which would shoot down that option.
I still see the Wings making an offer to retain Zidlicky for about 1 million.
So it would be nice for the Wings to get that one D man or even improve more with the moves to get Phaneuf and either Mike Green or Cody Franson. This would round out the D quite well.
Explain why anyone nvm the Leafs would want Weiss and Kindl? Not even to dump salary would it make sense to pick up a buy out candidate and a 7 d man. This makes 0 sense for any team in the league, take our 2 bad players and hold some salary on yours… buy out weiss and pay Franson…you get a weaker d man at a higher price lol…people are being ridiculous. Maybe Dion goes maybe he doesnt but some of these ideas are nothing but comedy. Again Leaf or not the Wings are not getting anything for a buy out a 7th D anda second round pick or some third tier prospect, chances are they would need to throw in more than that just to get rid of Weiss and Kindl, nvm for what return.
Kindl + Weiss = 7.3 mill + hold 2 mill for Phaneuf =9.3 mill × 2 years for Kindls contract = 18.6 mill then 2 more years at more years at 7 mill =14 mill more then 4 years of holding 2 mill = 8 more mill
18.6 + 14 + 8 = 40.6 mill
Dion Phaneufs remaining contract is 35 mill…so the Leafs trying to shed salary are going to pick up an extra 5 million bucks? For the privlidge of Weiss Kindl and a draft pick?
Sorry numbers of were just kind of off the top of my head Phaneufs deal remaining is 42 mill in total salary and the proposed deal of Weiss Kindl and holding 2 mill of Dions deal results in just under 40 mill?.My.point being the Wings are not going to get any player basically for free which is what tjat deal ammounts to and has worse cap implicatiions for the Leafs for uears to come. Why not just offer Kindl and Wiess straight up for any another player that can play in a top 4 making 6 or 7 mill what do you think happens?
As far as picking up Franson or somone else and to play a top 4 role and just buying out Weiss…well figure it this way a top 4 guy is going to cost between 5.5-6 mill for 5 or 6 years then add in Weiss buy out
which is over a mill for 6 more years is the same if not more than
paying Phaneuf….Again not getting into player specifics or defend Phaneuf but these ideas just dont make anysense.