Updates on the Red Wings and Senators.
Wings to take another run at Phaneuf?
Will the Red Wings make another pitch for Dion Phaneuf?
FOX SPORTS DETROIT: Keith Gave reports the trade deadline rumors of the Red Wings’ interest in Toronto Maple Leafs defenseman Dion Phaneuf are likely to be resurrected soon. The Leafs want to rid themselves of Phaneuf’s $7 million per season contract, but the Wings prefer not to pick up the full amount. Gave speculates they’ll want the Leafs to absorb $2 million annually. The Wings also want to unload center Stephen Weiss’s contract ($4.9 million annually) plus they’re willing to include a “bottom-tier defenseman” (like Brendan Smith) and a lesser prospect in the deal. While Phaneuf has a partial no-trade clause, a source claims he’s willing to accept a trade to Detroit “to get out of that nut house in Toronto.”
SPECTOR’S NOTE: The Wings apparently see Phaneuf as a second-pairing defenseman. He could be a good fit in that role, where he wouldn’t have to deal with the burden of being the main guy on the blueline. It remains to be seen, however, if the two clubs can work out a deal that sends him to Detroit.
Senators open talks with their free agents.
OTTAWA CITIZEN: Wayne Scanlan reports Senators management has started contract talks with their pending free agents, which includes “five RFAs, all forwards – Mark Stone, Mika Zibanejad, Mike Hoffman, Jean-Gabriel Pageau and Alex Chiasson – and two pending UFAs, forward Erik Condra and goaltender Andrew Hammond.” Scanlan also reports Senators GM Bryan Murray will try to acquire a top-six forward via trade or free agency, as well as shipping out a veteran or two who would prefer moving on to another club. If Anderson Hammond is re-signed, the expectation is backup Robin Lehner could be the odd man out. It’s believed the Sens will re-sign all their RFAs, but Condra could end up departing via the UFA market.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Murray said the Senators will spend more to retain their key players, but they won’t go up to the cap ceiling, which is currently projected at $71.5 million for 2015-16. Unless Murray can shed some salary, Condra could be a goner, especially if the Sens pursue a top-six forward. It’s expected David Legwand and Colin Greening will be shopped this summer.
I don’t see why the Senators need a top 6 forward. Their top 2 lines are solid.
MacArthur, Turris, Stone.
Hoffman, Zibanejad, Ryan.
That leaves Michalek, Lazar; although he may move to 3rd line C if Legwand can be moved, Chaisson as a 3rd line wingers more than capable of playing top 6 minutes if injuries dictate.
I would really like to see a true number one center , letting Turris thrive as number 2.
I am not completely sold on Chiasson . I have not given up on him , but not sure about his determination. And Michalek is truly up and down , in and out.
Agreed. Ottawa may have that player in house. Turris, Zibanejad or Lazar may all be #1 C’s in the next year to 4. Time will tell.
I’m not a huge Chaisson fan either. He appears to be very 1 dimensional but at 6’4” he may need more development time. These players over 6’3″ tend to develop more along the lines of Dman in games & time as opposed to forwards under 6″3″. I can only assume it takes longer to grow into their frames.
Striker Those are two good lines but neither are great lines. An injury to any one of those guys could spell trouble for the Sens. Peumple hopefully can also be a top 6 guy and perhaps Prince. Lazar needs a bit more time but may take the leap. Having said that a top Centre to feed Ryan the puck would be nice. Can Zbad elevate to that level? Hopefully Hoffman continues to improve but he can be a bit of a perimeter player and a bigger stronger LW be nice as well.
At the very least picking up another top 6 forward will only create more depth and the ability to roll four lines consistently.
As for players like Condra who may be on the move. Room needs to be made for guys coming up. I suspect the Sens will move out more than just the one guy the numbers are crowded on that roster. Perhaps if a bigger mutliplayer trade happens to bring in a top 6 forward, Condra can stay but it is kinda crowded.
Chiasson is no where near top 6, the guy has hands of stone. His only way to stick with this team is to learn to play with an edge, bang , aggitate. He has size but seldom uses it.
Hoffman was moved off the second line for a reason. While there is no doubt he has a great shot and is an above average skater he gets tunnel vison when the puck is on his stick. His return now would be at a premium, especially if packaged with a goalie.
Hoffman was a rookie & essentially a 1 dimensional player upon his arrival in the NHL. Ottawa spotted him in very favorable offensive zone starts but you can’t teach what Hoffman has. That is speed to burn & incredible hands but Ottawa is better when he plays decent minutes. He will improve as he develops. He has scored every where he’s played including the NHL & will get better. Scoring 27 goals playing limited minutes & when on the PP as a point man is very impressive.
no doubt Hofmann has skill and potential but if they are looking for a skilled top 6 mature vet forward then this is the type of player that might need to go the other way. Or at least the type of player teams would be asking for. He has a very heavy shot for a guy his size and serious wheels as you have mentioned. The Senators have a bevy of talented young forwards unfortunately not all will get the ice time they need. Not sure Cameron has confidence in him yet thus the diminshed role as the season wore on.
hoffman is the real deal. I think he was just pushed down to the fourth line because Michalek came back, but as we saw late in the habs series he was moved back up. I personally would try and move michalek, even though I love his style of play (he is just too injury prone and too expensive for the fourth line) and keep hoffman. Hoffy has the hands and wheels to penetrate the zone by himself on the pp and his defensive play will only improve with time.
It would be a shame to lose Condra , I have always liked what he brings to the team. And this year he developed some great chemistry with Pageau and Lazar.
ON the other side , who the hell is going to want Greening and Legwand ?
Agreed on the Condra, Pageau, Lazar combo. They played great together.
Buyouts may be the only option for Greening & possibly Legwand although a team looking for a 3rd line C may take Legwand at 3.5on a 1 year deal. Hey if Clarkson can be traded anything is possible.
Legwand wasn’t horrible. I can see him traded for late draft picks or included in a Deal to bring in that top 6 forward.
I agree that you need to probably buy out Greening and try and shop Legwand and and Smith. I like Smith’s grit, but not sure you keep him over developing pumpel and prince (hopefully they sign prince to another deal this summer). Personally I would try and keep condra…that line is just too good and condra has been getting better every year…he’s an important part….hopefully he is willing to sign at a reasonable price. I’m a little worried about the goaltending…i understand that Hammond was awesome for us this year, but to give up anderson would be crazy and lehner is still so young and we have put so much time into him. The only way I think you keep hammond over lehner is if we make sure we have a lock on O’connor. With smith, greening, and legwand out, we have room to sign another forward and have space for the new guys coming up. We definitively owe prince a shot.
oh yeah, and probably time to shop neil or buy him out as well…it’s time to let the young have their chances…gladiator..we salute you:)
Personally I would keep Lehner too. It would be an unsure situation now but would probably bear fruit 1-2 years down the line. They need Hammond now since Lehners health isn’t clear. But I would not trade Lehner, but keep him until Andersons contract is starting to reach the latter half part and Lehner has rebounded from his problems. Then Lehner can be tested seriously. If he falters by then, you trade. He’s good enough to be no2 with potential for more, so why not keep him?
So wings want a 5 mil. A year number 3 defencman for an overpaid centre who can’t play and a number 6-7 defence man … Oh sure sounds fare
I wonder who that “source” is who used the phrase “to get out of that nut house in Toronto.”??
lol Dreger still feeling a little sting from Nonis being fired perhaps?
The leafs should never trade phaneuf when we are taking back the same amount of salary and getting rippid off in taking Weiss who’s garbage and expensive, and smith or pulkinnen are both bad in a deal for phaneuf. Detroit shouldn’t get him just trade him to Colorado or something.
Still cant see it happening for a deal like that…its not the money the Leafs are concerned about its the cap hit. Adding Weiss and holding salary is the same cap hit for half the life of the contract…they might consider it if there was something in it, but a third tier prospect, and a bottom pairing D man (adding more salary) doesnt make sense. It should be interesting to see if some inexperience comes in to play here, when Nonis gave his exit interview he mentioned he had a deal for Phaneuf at the deadline bit it was a bad one, wonder if this was it because that looks like a terrible one.
Take the name off the jerseys for a second, 2nd pairing d man over paid by 1.5 mill for a buyout candidate who s probably over paid by atleast as much a bottom pairng D and a minor league player.
In the division no less so they can proceed to have that D man torch them for years to come…lol
I think that is detroits argument to the Leafs. That they will both still have the same Cap hit but the Leafs would receive the shorter term in regards to it. I understand that the Leafs will want better and hopefully they can find it. Yet trading their 7 million dollar 6-7 year cap hit for another bad contract that is similar but only 3-4 years might make sense to get them out from under that contract.
Not really it doesent, what if it ended up that the Leafs had to buy out Weiss, then add the 2 mill being held for Dions salary, its over half of Dions deal for the same length of Dions contract 8s in the first place. Its not getting them out of a contract at best it reduces a cap hit in 4years time, and gives them worse players in the meantime for the same if not a higher cap hit…lol
If thats the best deal out there (and I dont think it is) at that point honestly it would make more sense to buy out Phaneuf.
valid point. I made the assumption that they wouldn not buy out the player they pick up.
When you retain salary you do not retain cap hit. So what Detroit would be doing is taking on a bigger cap hit, but levelling the salary being paid.
You retain the cap hit of what ever portion of salary you retain.
Sorry but that is not accurate.
You will have that cap hit for the length of the deal.
I’m not a leafs or Detroit fan but that’s a Terrible deal. Dion at 5 million is worth a lot.
Dion at 7 isn’t worth as much.
I think any team would take Dion at 5 million.
That is not a good deal. The Leafs are rebuilding, so they shouldnt have a problem taking a contract on, providing they get some good prospects back. So give the Wings Phaneuf @ 5 mil for 3 yrs, take back Weiss, but they better include a top 5 Wing prospect, and 2 picks. The Leafs have the $$ to absorb some bad contracts IF, and only IF they get some players in return. Weiss from DET, Richards from LA. The thing for the Leafs is ass well, if they take these guys back, maybe they can resurrect their careers and then they can trade then for more assets.
I think there is a deal out there for Phaneuf that makes sense. But this is not it.
For a team needing a defenseman who’s up against the cap the Leafs can absorb a bad contract for 3-4 resulting in a net cap hit of 2-3 million, much less than going the UFA route. In exchange the team involved must absorb the later years of the contract (when the cap will have grown) and surrender a good prospect or picks.
I don’t see the Leafs getting a 1st rounder in the deal but a 2nd and a 4th (or equivalent in prospects under age 23) would give the Leafs a couple assets for their rebuild.
If this Detroit offer is the best out there Dion should remain with the Leafs. I would rather let him play out his contract.
Agreed.
Toronto isn’t making that deal unless there is a significant pick included most likely a 1st & the prospect would have to be at least a Pulkkinen.
Here is a thought that I think Scott Cullen has suggested in his TSN Off-Season game plan column: I think it is Phaneuf to Detroit for Wiess and Pulkkinen. Here is the link. http://www.tsn.ca/off-season-game-plan-toronto-maple-leafs-1.272285
Check out his proposed line up at the bottom of the page
It also looks like he has proposed Kessel and possibly Bozak to Nashville for Ryan Ellis & Kevin Fiala. Now I am assuming that as Bozak’s name is no longer listed with the team, maybe Bozak got traded elsewhere for a draft pick, I don’t know but it sure is an interesting scenario for the Leafs. The team rebuilds on the fly and gets rid of the core.
If Shanahan takes the deal listed above, he deserves to be immediately relieved of duties. Methinks the Detroit reporter has rose coloured glasses on if he thinks that’ll be the deal.
“Here, take our garbage, and oh ya you pay 2m annually of Dion’s Salary and then AND ONLY THEN will we take a 2nd pairing Dman as we’re doing you a favour..”
My response would be “Uh.. f-off? Enjoy buying out Weiss and your geriatric team.”
It appears from all the rumors that Toronto is about to under go a full proper rebuild. It has potentially started already with Franson & Santorelli being moved out for Nashville’s 1st & Leipsic & Winnik to Pitt for a 4th this season & 2nd in 2016. Shipping out the majority of their core, Kessel, Phaneuf Lupul & ? will mean they need some players to skate well the restock the pipeline & hit the cap floor.
That’s a 5 year plan minimum if they choose that route but they may use the Vancouver model & try to transition younger players in slowly over the next 3 to 5 seasons. It really doesn’t matter as they will bring in the money regardless of the on ice product.
I wouldn’t be shocked to see all of the aforementioned players staying & if there moved, they won’t be given away for nothing. Toronto is going to want full market value or they stay. We can argue about what that value is but none will be given away just to get them off the roster. Confronted with that Toronto will keep them. If players like Niskanen, Orpik, & Carle are commending in excess of 5 million per season as UFA’s where are salaries going for Dman moving forward. A top 4 Dman with a pulse is going to start being paid 6 mil a season as soon as this summer. Watch what Franson & Green are paid as UFA’s this summer. The only way their contracts come in under 6 are on long term deals. There will be bidding wars & some GM will over pay as there simply aren’t enough to go around.
I like Phaneuf just not at that cap hit for that long. That said however had he gone to UFA status he would have gotten that & potentially more. I may not like it but that’s the business model in today’s NHL.
If a team projects Dion to be a second paring defenseman, then why bother trading for him? There are more affordable options out there. I agree he shouldn’t be your best dman, but he should probably be your second best. Those are the teams that should be inquiring.
That being said, id take Weiss and Detroit’s first if they’re still interested. Weiss can play for a season or two (especially if Bozak can be moved) before being bought out for a better buyout penalty. It’s a fair deal. Keep in mind the pick is in the 20’s, and they get to make a salary dump for a top pairing defenceman, and on Detroit he probably would be. If not, then look elsewhere.
Striker,
We sir I believe are on the same page re: Phaenuf’s value.
I’m relatively confident Shanahan and Co. would accept EITHER some of Dion’s salary OR Weiss coming to Toronto, but not both.
Off the topic to day. But I don’t think Spec will mind. This trade scenario was suggested to me. I am curious of any ones thoughts on it beyond the fact that Arizona likely won’t move Ekman-Larson for anything.
Edmonton trades RNH or Draistl, Yakupov and Pittsburghs pick
Arizona trades Oliver Ekmean-Larson and Mike smith
Perhaps if Arizona drafts Hannifin this could work. Speaking of Hannafin could the Oilers trade one of these guys to Arizona or another lower drafting team and Pittsburgh’s pick for the chance at Hannifin. funny to see them pick up the best forward and D in the draft. haha. Perhaps if Hannifin falls to Toronto, Arizona taking Strome could a similar deal be made with them.
I am thinking this is something Arizona won’t entertain. But…I do wonder…
The only way Ekman-Larsson is moved is if the return is so great you just can’t say no. A return of RNH, Yakupov, Pitts 1st sounds & getting out from under Smith’s contract seems to potentially meet that criteria but what does Arizona then do at D giving up what may be the best young up & coming #1 Dman in the NHL?
These types of deals are a waste of time discussing. They happen rarely although on occasion they do.
Ummm they draft Hannifin
I am not 100% sold that you would want to move RNH, and Draisitle and Yak + a first is basically 3 first round picks for OEL and and aging goaltender who is coming off a really bad year.
OEL would be a nice pick up for Edmonton, but the price would need to make sense to both teams. I could potentially see a deal Involving Yak and Pitts first there would obviously need to be a few more moving parts.
As for Arizona’s pick if they were high on Draisitle and Edmonton really wanted Hannifin then maybe just a one for one trade.
The comment was RNH or Draisaitl.
I’d be shocked if Maloney moves Ekamn-Larsson after trading Yandle at any price. You can’t hope to be a contender with out a legitimate top flight #1 Dman & in OEL Arizona has 1 of the best.
Ya I caught that, I said .. – I am not 100% sold that you would want to move RNH, and Draisitle and Yak + a first is basically 3 first round picks for OEL –
Arizona is in full rebuild, they might value the return for OEL and it could push them ahead a little bit. But I agree I highly doubt they would move him. It would probably take a package like the one mentioned above.
I think when Arizona traded Yandle, it put any thought of moving OEL to death.
Agreed – OEL and Hedman are two of my favorite dmen in the league right now. They both have complete games. Hedman is killing it in the playoffs right now.
I agree with you guys but the counter argument is that Arizona is likely to draft either Hanifin or Strome.
Hanifin may be NHL ready, if not he will be in a year or two. So you move a Ekman-Larson, draft hanifin then picking up RNH or Draistle with Yakupov will compensate for note taking Strome and draft pick be a bonus
Arizona still has a top elite D man, Unproven in the NHL but pretty much a sure thing. They also get two forwards to help their offense and whatever they can draft. Three guys that can develope and grow together.
So the trade from Arizona’s end isn’t a horrible Idea. It may actually be a bit costly from Edmonton’s end.
I was intrigued by the idea.
I would hate to see RNH move but for a young dman like OEL you gotta consider it. Oilers definitely shouldn’t give up much more if RNH is in the deal.
i would like to see the Oilers take a chance and trade either Draistl or their first in 2016 for maybe the 7th pick this year and take Werenski or Provorov on D.
Not sure what Scanlan is getting at when he says “If Anderson is re-signed, the expectation is backup Robin Lehner could be the odd man out” since Anderson’s new deal – signed this year and which kicks in next season, is for 3 years at a cap hit of $4,200,000. He probably meant to say “Hammond.”
You didn’t see Murrays post season press conference? He practically spelled it out that one of the two signed goalies (Anderson, Lehner) would be traded if Hammond signed his contract proposal. Anticipation is Hammond will probably sign. Anderson just re-established himself as the no1. Lehner has the uncertainty of concussion and performance on the ice. Obviously Lehner is the odd man out. It was obvious to anyone who heard Murray.
What, from my comments, makes you think I didn’t see Murray’s state of the union address to the media? I was rteferring to Lyle’s opening blurb where he says Scanlan of the Citizen wrote “If Anderson is re-signed, the expectation is backup Robin Lehner could be the odd man out.” I simply surmised that he must have meant Hammond in that sentence – not Anderson – because, as I point out, Anderson is already re-signed.
I meant Hammond, not Anderson. Sorry for the confusion, I’ve amended it accordingly.
OK. I didn’t get that typo when I read it. All fine.
My reply came from me believing that you challenged Scanlans opinion that Lehner is the odd man out. It was obviously not what you meant.
if that is what Detroit wants a bad contract and 2million of dion salary and they will give us a number six guy on D and a crapy prospect that is insane. If Shanny takes that deal he should be fired with the rest of them.Iam not looking for a gold mine here but I am not giving him away either. I would take Pukkinin or a first and Weiss contract not Smith.
If the deal were Weiss, Pulkkinen, a Dman; Smith or Kindle, & Detroit’s 1st for Phaneuf & Toronto eating 1.5 to 2 mil of Phaneuf’s contract, I think both teams would consider it. If or when Toronto moves Phaneuf they need to get a serviceable NHL Dman back. You can’t remove Franson & Phaneuf & not replace them with something.
That only leaves Reilly, Gardner, Polak & Robidas. Tim Erixon is a border line NHL Dman an RFA & is young so he might turn the corner but neither he nor any of the prospect Dman are ready to be thrown to the wolves. Finn, Piercy & Granberg.
Even rebuilding you need to at the very least play sound defensive hockey which starts in net & on D or it stunts the development of the whole team. Just ask Edmonton who hasn’t iced an NHL defense in close to a decade.
I agree. I have seen some projected Leafs rosters for next season and they look weak as hell. They are in big trouble if the don’t get some help, but just ship all talent out of town.
Here’s one projected roster:
http://www.tsn.ca/off-season-game-plan-toronto-maple-leafs-1.272285
Long time reader, first time poster. Love the comments and debates. As for my comment, as a long time Dion fan (yep I admit I got the jersey) from the Canada Jr. days, I can’t understand why anyone would want him seeing what is happening to his foot speed. He is a good NHL Dman, but in the cap era far too many mistakes are being made in declining players. Back in the days of UFA at 31, you got a final piece or occasionally a franchise goalie…not a core. Love the comments out there, Spector please keep up the great work for many years to come, you are a must read daily. Cheers
Dion played the wrong side for big stretches of the season. That made him look not so mobile. Especially at turning and digging the puck from the boards on his weak side. He must also be used properly to be able to gauge him. Imagine him playing with a guy like Shattenkirk. Dion would look rock stable.
Good to have you aboard Tempyy. The other issue in moving Dion, if it can be done is finding a d-man to take his minutes. Smith actually would be a good pickup for Dion as part of the deal.
Off subject – Leafs are looking for a coach, they should consider Guy Boucher. His prints are all over the current Lightning and the Habs (from his days in Hamilton). Boucher will be back in the NHL this season; Leafs should consider him in some capacity.
Some info has surfaced fro Tampa since Boucher left. At the time, Victor Hedman was in Bouchers doghouse big time. Boucher only projected him to be a career stay at home D at best. This was clearly proved wrong under Jon Cooper. I have seen Hedman since he was 17. Bouchers assessment was laughable. When I heard his position on it, that made pause for thought. Everyone can be wrong sometimes but…he’s supposed to be able to gauge these things and make players reach their potential. Hmm. I’d prefer another coach.
If that is the deal the Wings want for Phaneuf, I hope Holland sticks to his guns on it. Leafs would likely walk away which is fine by me. If they took it then I would have to watch Phaneuf make stupid plays in his own zone and cost the team on a regular basis hoping the wizard has an extra brain laying around to give to him.
Yes I think Phaneuf is a meathead and would rather not see him playing for the Wings…Wings defense didn’t look any worst against Tampa than the Montreal defense looks right now.
Dion would benefit from playing in a non-traditional U.S. hockey market. Wings’ fans would fry him once he started making mistakes, knowing they have 6 more seasons of such folly. Just another reason why I don’t see Dion in Detroit.
Trade proposal To Detroit Bozak and 1st (nsh). To toronto Weiss Det 1st and a second, and Weiss, leafs get to move up and get a second they don’t have, Detroit gets a new 2/3 line center and saves a bit on cap, please tell me what you think
The leafs will have no problem making the cap floor.
I look forward to seeing Nathan Horton in the line up next year.
It was tongue in cheek. If Toronto stages a fire sale like many are suggesting & advocating for, moving Kessel, Bozak, Lupul & Phaneuf that’s 24.425 off the cap. They only have 13 players signed for next season now at a cap hit of 51.569 mil that includes Horton & his 5.3 mil cap hit for the next 5 years. The only RFA or UFA of significance is Kadri & he won’t be seeing big money yet, maybe 3.5 to 5 mil depending upon term.
How bad do people want Toronto to be? Like Buffalo bad this past year? 1 of the worst teams of all time & certainly the worst team in the modern era. The last 30 years! That’s a joke & thankfully with the new weighting in the draft lottery your only guaranteed the 2nd pick at best as Buffalo just discovered. The odds of selecting 1st overall aren’t that high any more.
Toronto is a mess. To many people with to much input into hockey opps. Gong show is a nice description of what’s going on there. Ha-ha!