Updates on the Red Wings, Islanders and Sharks, plus the latest on Dion Phaneuf.
Latest on the Red Wings.
Pursuing a high-end player via trade could cost the Red Wings a good young player like Tomas Tatar.
MLIVE.COM: Ansar Khan reports the Detroit Red Wings won’t be hampered by a salary-cap crunch for next season. They currently have over $56 million invested in 18 players. That gives them ample room to re-sign their own free agents and explore this summer’s thin UFA market. They could be in the mix for a right-shooting defenseman like Washington’s Mike Green or Nashville’s Cody Franson. Khan speculates they might revisit trade talks with Toronto regarding defenseman Dion Phaneuf. GM Ken Holland acknowledged the lack of depth in the UFA pool, and cautions that it could be difficult finding a complimentary player via trade or free agency.
DETROIT FREE PRESS: Helene St. James notes the Maple Leafs wanted Anthony Mantha as part of the return for Phaneuf, which the Wings were unwilling to do. Though Mantha’s stock has dropped this season, the Wings don’t want to trade him. Top prospect Dylan Larkin remains untouchable. Acquiring a high-end player could also cost them a good young player like Gustav Nyquist or Tomas Tatar.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: It sounds as though the Wings prefer to build from within. While I don’t doubt Holland could revisit his interest in Phaneuf, it sounds like the Leafs will have to accept a lesser prospect than Larkin and Mantha as part of the return. I certainly don’t expect them to part with a player like Tatar or Nyquist. While Holland could possibly sign a top player in this summer’s UFA market, I doubt he overpays for the privilege. I think he learned his lesson after paying too much for Stephen Weiss a couple of years ago.
Latest Islanders speculation.
NEWSDAY: Arthur Staple reports the New York Islanders need a permanent left wing for the John Tavares line. He notes aging forwards Brad Richards and Martin St. Louis could be available this summer but “neither might fit the Islanders mold going forward.” Vancouver Canucks forward Shawn Matthias could be intriguing but he could also be in high demand in the UFA market. Staples suspects Isles GM Garth Snow could add a third-pairing defenseman. They would likely welcome Michal Neuvirth back as Jaroslav Halak’s backup but he’s likely to depart via free agency. Speedy winger Michael Grabner has only a year remaining on his contract and could be a trade chip for a player or a draft pick.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Landing a top-line left wing will be expensive. There’s really nothing available via free agency, and a trade will cost them one of their good young players plus a top prospect or a high draft pick. Given Grabner’s recent injury history the Isles could test his trade value this summer.
Possible goalie targets for the Sharks.
CSNBAYAREA.COM: Kevin Kurz, responding to a reader’s e-mail, believes the San Jose Sharks will target a goaltender in his mid-to-late twenties who can be with the team for a few years. Options could include “Scott Darling or Antti Raanta (Chicago); Jonathan Bernier (Toronto); Dustin Tokarski (Montreal); Cam Talbot (New York Rangers); Robin Lehner (Ottawa); Nicklas Svedberg (Boston) and Michal Neuvirth (New York Islanders, and a pending unrestricted free agent).” Kurz doesn’t expect the Sharks will have interest in Chicago’s Corey Crawford or Detroit’s Jimmy Howard, as they’re carrying lengthy and expensive contracts plus they’re both over 30. He also speculates the Sharks could be interested in even younger prospects like “like Philipp Grubauer in Washington, Malcolm Subban in Boston, or Andrey Vasilevskiy or Kristers Gudlevskis from Tampa Bay.”
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Antti Niemi’s tenure with the Sharks is over and Alex Stalock has yet to prove he can seize the starter’s job. The Sharks will acquire a starting goaltender via trade or free agency this summer. Their best options include Talbot and Bernier (if the Leafs opt to part with him). The Canadiens might move Tokarski if they feel Zach Fucale is ready to become Carey Price’s understudy. Lehner has promise but also an injury history. Raanta will likely be available as I don’t see the Blackhawks parting with Darling and I think they’ll stick with Crawford. The Wings apparently aren’t parting with Howard. If the Leafs decide to part ways with James Reimer, he could also interest the Sharks.
More Phaneuf speculation.
TORONTO SUN: Steve Simmons reports five teams contacted the Toronto Maple Leafs following the trade deadline to discuss their continuing interest in defenseman Dion Phaneuf. “Among the five were the Boston Bruins, where former GM Peter Chiarelli is now in Edmonton.”
SPECTOR’S NOTE: The Edmonton Journal’s David Staples did a good job dismantling that rumor. Besides, if the Oilers are on Phaneuf’s no-trade list, it’s a moot point.
Leafs should be happy if they could get Smith from the wings in a deal for Dion. They are not parting with their top prospects. Getting rid of Dion’s contract would be a major coupe for Shanny. I still say nobody in their right mind should want Dion, because of how he will deteriorate in the coming seasons. No way he is as good or better in 2-3 seasons which makes his contract even worse as the seasons progress. Too much money and way too much term. Take a bag of pucks Shanny and keep Phil.
I think because people hear the name Dion Phaneuf they make a little more to this than there has to be, not that its a super easy trade to make the Leafs will be eating a bad contract or holding some salary but people seem to think no one would be interested in a D that could play in their top 4 and a good pp guy…although a little over paid chances are he is not going to be as overpaid as a few of the guys in the weak UFA market. If a team could get Phaneuf for 5.5-6 mill Id suggest thats better than alot of the UFAs that if a team was lucky enough to sign em would be looking at over 5 mill. Just because a team has some room doesnt mean the UFA they want doesnt get a better offer somewhere else
Dion is the same age as Green younger than Boychuck Eherhoff Zidlicky Beauchimen Michalik Martin not sure those guys are going to be that much cheaper and just as if not more likely to regress…and thats if they dont get better offers somewhere else. with the UFA market the way it is I really dont think its going to be that hard to move Dion, his contract ends when he is 35, which is still younger than some of these guys looking for deals this year.
You’re right. That is sound reasoning. People tend to undervalue Phaneuf because of falsely perceived low value at this particular time. Shanahan won’t just give him away and take back whatever. It’s not that bad. It’s overpaid by $1.5M-2M. But Phaneufs contract was a UFA contract. It’s always like 10%-20% more on top, on such contracts. They are seldom value for money. The length of the contract makes it even more of a concern.
I didn’t like that signing at the time, since Phaneuf got the dollars, the term AND the No-Trade. That was way too player-sided of a deal. IMO Phaneuf should have gotten either the term OR the money. But then Phaneuf probably would have bolted for the UFA route – maybe for the better.
I think there probably is some way for Leafs to maneuver themselves out of this situation. They have to find the right trade partner. Any value will depend on league interest for him. It’s hard to gauge his value right now.
hanson… totally agree dion isn’t gonna get any better and isn’t well liked around the league was voted most overrated by the players a couple years ago. could see the leafs having to hold salary and take back a toxic contract
Yeah lmao and right behind him was PK Subban( Norris trophy winner), Marc andre fleury(Stanley cup ring), Alex Ovechkin (50 goal scorer), and Phil Kessel (scores 35 goals and 80 pts a year) Amazing those points are left out when making a point. Oh and Phanuef had been nominated for the Norris trophy with Calgary and had played in the Stanley Cup finals against Tampa bay. He may not be a No1 dman but he is a very good top 3 who can log minutes against other teams best players when needed. not the best positionaly but his skating is more then adequate. 3 time all star. by no means is he captain material but any team that takes him, gets him knowing that and would not expect him be. just focus on playing hockey. If the leafs are going to take on a bad contract (laughable when you consider Phanuefs contract would cancel each others out or part of it) and eat some salary Then Any team trading for him are going to have to give something up. Anything less than either a first pick or a high end prospect coming back is considered hwy robbery. This whole taking on a bad contract and eating salary while getting nothing back is just dumb. That means the leafs moves side ways in terms of cap space while getting nothing in return. Id keep phanuef at that point and Detroit and any other team offering less can kick rocks. Remember the wings need a top 3 dman then the leafs are willing to move him and this years ufa’s are slim pickings. so the wings best options are over pay for a guy like franson who might give you bottom pairing minutes or give up something of value for a top 3 dman. No team wants to give up assets but that doesn’t mean it wont happen if they want to stay competitive.
If Dion was on a 3 year deal, I think the Leafs would have no trouble moving him. I am just concerned about the last few years of the deal and what value he will bring to a young team in those years. Young teams will have players coming off their ELCs. They will need cap space to keep the young core together; old Dion’s contract will be in the way.
and – for the record, I am not a Dion hater.
He’ll only be in his mid thirties when it expires.
There will be a market for him and yes “some” salary may come back in one form or another. It’s not going to be salary and a bad contract coming back.
Leafs will get one excellent piece (1st round pick or high drafted prospect) for Phaneuf and another ok piece but if they take a bad contract back they should two excellent pieces. Almost all the current GMs would have signed him for the same money just because Calgary originally overpaid so his “raise” in the new contract was minimal. Give him a decent partner, only twenty minutes a night and no letter and you get the old Dion. He showed flashes of that the last month when he played less, hit more and fought.
Kessell is in the position except he is in a select group of players that you have to really think about trading because 35 goal scorers are hard to find. He should bring two excellent pieces and one ok piece in a trade.
I really think with his Dollar value, term and NTC which I believe will be still in effect on his new team that he won’t get a 1rst round or top pick in return. The Leafs are likely looking at 2 lesser picks and an NHL expendable body.
But not to worry as there was an article written earlier this year showing the advantage of acquiring grouped picks and how that can improve your draft odds over receiving just one pick even if it is a 1rst rounder.
Kevin Kurz can speculate all he likes about the Sharks’ pursuit of younger goaltenders – However, tossing out names like Vasilevskiy and Gudlevskis is simply that – Tossing them out there…
Though not a mind-reader, one is given every indication that Yzerman has no intention whatsoever to move either of his young goalies. Gudlevskis might – MIGHT – be had for a generous return, but Vasilevskiy has been (somewhat credibly) touted as the second coming of Tretiak, and has shown evidence of such sparkling potential in a handful of games he’s played for the Lightning this season, as well as the impressions he’s made on the world stage.
At this point it would be irresponsible nonsense to speculate one could pry Vasilevskiy away from the Bolts for anything less than a top-five forward or defenseman (not that the Lightning need help at either position) and an extended package of (further) assets.
Let’s put it in these terms: If you KNEW Ken Dryden was going to be KEN DRYDEN, while he was still toiling at Cornell – What might you expect him to be worth, to a prospective suitor? I believe that’s how Yzerman and Tampa currently value Andrei Vasilevskiy…
Looking at the term of Bishops and Vasilievskis contracts – I think you’re right! They’re both signed for another 2 years. I believe that they will test Vasilievski during next season to see if he can handle the no1 job. If Vasilievsky holds up – in the summer of 2016, Bolts will probably sign him to a nice bridge contract with a no1 role in mind. Bishops contract situation would probably be on hold until later if Vasilievski is plan A going forward. In that situation Bolts would keep Bishop during the season and for a deep playoff run (in case of injury) but not resign.
There’s a chance Bishop could stay, if Vasilievsky stumbles a bit and Bishop accepts a shorter term.
Looks like Vasilievsky will, in all likelihood, not be traded. This is not a Canucks situation where they’re stuck with a Luongo-type contract while having a goalie prospect.
Johnny Burns (bernier) and Nash 1st to San Jose for their 1st( 9th) and 2nd rd pics plus a b prospect
Dion and Riemer to Detroit for Howard and Sheahan and a 1st . leafs retain 2 mill for 3 years of Dion s contract .
Bozak to Van for Markstrom
JVR and Gardiner to Devils for Gelinas and 1st (6th)
Kessel to FLA for Petrovic , Zack Hyman , and 1st (11th)
leafs core all gone for young players and good draft picks
Why would the Leafs take back a bad contract (Howard) and retain salary of Phaneuf’s contract?
And I don’t think you can retain 2 mill for 3 years! If you retain, you’ve to for every year of the contract! May be I’m wrong! Does anybody now?
And I think Kessel would get the Leafs a little better return…
Van is in a mini-rebuild, why would they want Bozak???
Maybe the Bernier deal works….
And I wouldnt do the NJ deal either, no offense. I think Gardiner gets another shot with another coach. He looked pretty good under Horachek for the most part. Not sure JVR who looks like he is probably going to be generally a 30 goal guy with a very nice contract wouldnt be worth that pick plus something else on his own. I would be in no hurry to deal those 2 depending on Dion and Kessel moving, definitely wouldnt be dealing both JVR and Kessel, for basically a couple picks and 2 prospects.
Give up a young proven 30 goal winger and Gardiner for the 6th? I wouldn’t make that deal either if I we’re the Leafs.
Leafs have no use for Howard. And that is a bad contract, to boot. Simply won’t happen. Leafs are committed to Bernier going forward.
Bozak is ok value for a 2nd two-way C. His salary is comparable. You just don’t give him away. Markstrom will merely fetch a 3rd rounder. Bozak will fetch more, if they trade him at all.
JVR won’t get traded.
A trade to Florida is fairly viable on paper. One of the few teams that could go for it maybe. The fear of missing playoffs again might make them desperate for a trade.
What about all Leafs 26 players for 41 draft picks in this years draft? Rebooting the franchise. 🙂
It will shake out like this:
1st rd: 4
2nd rd: 9
3rd rd: 10
4th rd: 6
5th rd: 6
6th rd: 5
7th rd: 1
I like most of your deals. I think we can do better for Kessel however but I like where you are going.
Stockpile young players now in anticipation of stinking up the joint for another couple of years and securing more franchise type players in the next couple of drafts.
Have the books cleared out by the time they become competitive and the draft picks are coming together with the Marlies.
That would be a true 5 year plan and could work if everyone is patient. That is a big “if” in Toronto.
The wings aren’t getting Phanuef unless Mantha or larkin is part of the deal. The wings went the cheaper route ala Zidlicky and look how that turned out. The Wings need a top 3 dman more then the leafs need to trade him. And I believe they’ll hold on to him if they cant get the right deal. like Richardson says the leafs are dealing from a position of weakness, But when you consider that the Ufa class is one of the weakest ever and a lack of available top dmen. Phanuefs contract for a team with cap space becomes more palatable. But its funny of how many haters there are who don’t like him but would have him on there teams so long as the leafs take all the risk and get nothing back. If that were the case why would the leafs need to trade him, Then taking a bad contract and eating salary makes Zero sense.
no way wings give up larkin or mantha for phanuef just not gonna happen dion is number 4 dman at best and Holland isn’t gonna overpay for phaneuf! its funny how many leaf lovers over rate the majority of the leafs core for a team that has made the playoffs once in the past 10 years and that was a shortened seasone
Because it’s possible to have good players on a bad team Jello.
And it funny all the haters all start there spiel with the absolute “no way…. ” like they know when time and time again, dead wrong in every way. Look we don’t know what the pieces that were involved in the trade. It’s all speculative and because of that there is no need to be so rude and say there’s no way this player is worth this or there’s no way this could happen without eating this or that amount of salary especially when you have no real way of knowing for sure what the deal is or what the other parties discussed or think….other than what seems to make sense in the fantasy land you built in your head. Whether you’re a hater or a fan, most can’t make a rational trade scenarios or accept them because of biased standpoint which blocks the logic most fans/haters have to say, right jello?
your right ron but to say larkin or mantha for phaneuf you are in make beleaf land!
On a pure Leafs-Red Wings perspective you’re probably right as there is information about a trade that apparently fell through regarding either Larkin or Mantha. But don’t underestimate Phaneuf trade value outside of that particular trade or particular team. There should be some value there.
yes that’s right nobody on the leafs teams is worth anything but a bag of pucks and a handshake, Sheesh. They said the same things about Larry Murphy an he ended up being one of there top dmen and walking away with a couple Stanley cups so your argument is moot. And no way the leafs are just going to hand over their best defenseman with out getting anything back. plain and simple. and no way did I say that Detroit was going to do it but that’s what its going to take. but its funny how non leaf fans just love to chime in and devalue the rate of return when they never offer their own opinion on what the offer would be. simply put the leafs aren’t going to take back and/or eat salary just to get rid of Phanuef unless there is something of value coming back. If there is nothing there then the leafs can hold on to him and the wings can make another early exit next year.
only leaf fans didn’t like murphy and got booed out of town the rest of the fans knew he was a good dman! and saying the best defenseman on a bottom five team isn’t saying much! im sure phaneuf can get traded it wont be a whole lot look what seguin and spezza got when the rest of the league new they wanted out or were on there way out those 2 lived up to there contracts far more than phaneuf has
I’m one of the ones that hated that we got rid of him. He just wasn’t a good fit on the team, that’s all. he put up points and was a plus player. To me the booing was uncalled for. And Yes everyone Outside T.O. (rolls the eyes) knows he was a good dman. But Just because T.O. didn’t like him didn’t mean that he didn’t have value. Giving Murphy away was the wrong thing to do( Most leaf fans will tell you that ). just like giving away Phanuef for nothing is the wrong thing to do now So if the wings want him badly enough (And there not the only team with interest)then they’ll have to pay up. And not sure if you know this or not but Seguin and Spezza are forwards not a defense pairing. comparing those two is apples to oranges. But I guess if missing the playoffs like the leafs is living up to their contracts. Then I guess their over blown contracts have value as well . Thanks for making my point!
I truly believe that Phaneuf carries value despite the opinion of most Leaf fans.
Only in Toronto do we overrate or undervalue our players to such an extreme.
Dion has his faults but don’t tell me he is not sought after by half a dozen teams that will make young players available (althought I doubt Mantha will be one of them). Dallas? Anaheim? Edmonton? etc. If the team is on his accepted list then there is a trade to be made without much $$ being retained unless the prospect is upgraded from a “B” list to an “A” list type.
If Weiss is taken back then I can see an “A” prospect being sent back to Toronto.
Agreed, All I was saying was that the asking price would be Mantha or a 1st. whether the Wings would do it or not would be up to them. The Leafs were not just going to hand him over And take all the risk. something of value had to come back that’s all. That the ol rhetoric from non leaf fans or Dion bashers gets a little old. Simply put he was miscast as the captain. If he wasn’t handed the C we probably wouldn’t be talking about him right now. Also when ever I hear non leaf fans roll out the nobody likes him and point to the players poll I laugh cause guys like Scott Hartnell were the ones voting. I made the Larry Murphy point as to point out that he was a good player that didn’t get a chance when he was in T.O. and hasty decision by Cliff Flethcer ended giving us nothing in return. That Mistake would not happen again. But your right if they took on Dions salary then yeah something lesser could be had or upgraded if salary was retained. But I think leafs brass would be looking for a bigger return if not the wings then another team willing to upgrade. then to settle for b prospects. other wise hold onto him for another year and try again.
Holland is a savvy GM , he won’t give much for Phaneuf. The Leafs will have to retain some salary, take Weiss’ contract in return and a player like Smith , perhaps also a B level prospect of lower pick. Wings don’t typically trade good prospects or high draf picks. I like Smith, he plays with an egde but he seemed to fall out of favor with Babcock ….tends to take bad penalties. A Phaneuf trade may depend on if Babcock is returning and if not whoever his replacement is may have input on Phaneuf. Franson signed as a UFA may make more sense.
Re: winger to play with Tavares …..Strome looked good playing with JT , might be worth comsidering a switch to the left side or try Anders Lee. With all the good Snow has done this year the Grabovski and Kulemin signings are going to bite for a couple more years.
Not sure whats more savvy? Signing Franson and keeping Weiss = in the neighborhood of 11mill, or trade Weiss for Dion, give up something relatively small and pay the difference of around 2…Franson wont be taking a 2 or 3 year deal after his series of 1 year deals in Toronto, he will be looking at a 5 year deal atleast. This knda get to what I was eluding to earlier. Not sure Toronto is going to need to be carying salary plus taking back contracts it will be 1 or the other, and I am not sure with the ufas and the cap it may not be a little more to Torontos advantage then some think.
Detroit would have progressed much further in the play-offs had they a solid defense, that’s a lot of income flushed. They best address that problem this summer or they might be looking at more of the same next spring
I really hope the Wings don’t even bother with Phaneuf. He would be an upgrade for now offensively but not really defensively and in a couple of years his contract could be really toxic if his offense dries up and/or his body starts to break down from his physical style of play. He sure as hell isn’t worth a top prospect and a 1st round pick…at least not to the Wings. If they were going to give up that much for a defenseman they would have done so for Myers so forget about it.
Just try and sign Green and give up nothing for that offense right handed shot. If Babcock moves on it might be a good thing for players like Weiss, Jurco, Kindl and Smith who seem to not be put in situations where you can get the most out of those players because Babcock doesn’t like them.
Green or Franson – both will come with reasonable contracts and no compensation.
…and no chance to dump another contract. Doubt they are less than 5-5.5 mill 5 years, at best. If they dont find more term somewhere else.
No NHL d-man will sign a “reasonable contract” in a UFA market. Firstly, they will always get their money – but the problem is – UFA status probably gives them term also… Franson at $5.5M at 5+ years? Suddenly the ugly sister doesn’t look that bad.
If the Wings are going to move top prospects or even Howard for a top 3 D they would be better served talking to the Jets who have an abundance of D and could stand to move one. Minn or Nashville might even be better trade partners for the Wings if they rather go that way than with UFAs. Dion doesn’t make sense for the Wings if Toronto wants anything other than to swap bad contracts, his contract is toxic and his presence in the Toronto locker room will be toxic if he stays. All the more reason Toronto won’t get any kind of A grade return.
Listening to Cheveldayoffs press conference, he will stand pat regarding his defense next year. The only thing he emphasized was letting them grow. He seems perfectly happy where he’s at. A trade won’t happen there. He’s not very trigger happy.
Seth Jones and Mattias Ekholm is the ones having to sign new bridge RFA deals this summer as they’ll be on their last contract year. It looks like Predators could stomach those raises, from a cap perspective. BUT, revisiting this situation in one years time, if Predators need forward depth by then, they might go for a d-man trade. This summer it’s highly unlikely.
Nobody will get Howard off your hands at $5.3M. Maybe toward the end of the contract, but not with 4 years left. That is considered a bad contract and has little value around the league.
It will be hard to get quality D. Either in UFA or in trade. It’s hard to gauge Phaneufs trade value. It will depend upon other teams interest this summer. If few come knocking, it will be a salary dump situation. If there are at least 2-3 interested bidders, Leafs could get some value back. Nobody knows how it will play out.
Give dion a change of scenery and about 15 minutes a game and he’ll shine.