More top-10 trade candidate lists, plus the latest on Phil Kessel, Dion Phaneuf, Patrick Sharp, Ryan O’Reilly, Cam Talbot and more.
More Top-10 Trade Candidates lists.
THE HOCKEY NEWS: Matt Larkin lists Carolina’s Eric Staal, Toronto’s Phil Kessel, St. Louis’ T.J. Oshie and Chicago’s Patrick Sharp among his top-10 trade candidates leading up to the 2015 NHL draft.
SI.COM: Allan Muir includes Minnesota’s Jared Spurgeon, Ottawa’s Robin Lehner, Montreal’s Tom Gilbert, Vancouver’s Eddie Lack and New York Rangers Cam Talbot on his list of top-10 trade candidates.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: These lists don’t mean everyone on them will be dealt. Of the two lists, I think Muir’s contains more likely trade candidates, as many of those on Larkin’s list are high-salaries players who could prove difficult to move.
Latest on the Leafs.
ESPN.COM: Pierre LeBrun cites two hockey executives claiming the Toronto Maple Leafs have set an asking price for right wing Phil Kessel that is “way, way too high.” The executives feel the Leafs will have to eat more of Kessel’s $8 million per season salary than they think. Kessel has a partial no-trade clause in which he lists eight teams he’ll accept being dealt to. Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, Minnesota, Montreal, New York Rangers, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are reportedly on that list.
Red Wings not interested in Dion Phaneuf.
MLIVE.COM’s Ansar Khan yesterday reported the following via Twitter:” @DetroitRedWings no longer interested in pursuing a trade for @MapleLeafs defenseman Dion Phaneuf, I was told.”
SPORTSNET 590 (via TODAY’S SLAPSHOT): Elliotte Friedman dismissed the possibility of Markham, Ontario native Steven Stamkos not re-signing with the Tampa Bay Lightning to sign with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Friedman cites the fact the Lightning are a Cup contender while the Leafs are about to engage in a lengthy rebuild.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Of course the Leafs are setting a high asking price for Kessel. Proper thing for a player who’s tallied 30 goals in five of the past seven seasons. And if the Leafs don’t get what they seek, I doubt they’ll lower their price. I don’t believe they’re so desperate to move him that they’ll take a bag of pucks in return. If they don’t find what they seek, they’ll keep him for next season…Stamkos to Toronto is the dream that never dies for some desperate Leafs fans. To those folks, I say this: Steven Stamkos is not leaving a Cup contender for a rebuilding team, regardless of how much money the latter offers him. Period. Full stop. End of discussion. There is no debate, no “But what if talks fall through?”, nothing. The Lightning want to re-sign him. He wants to stay with the Lightning. It will be expensive, but the Bolts will re-sign him to a long-term deal…Not surprised that the Wings aren’t interested in Phaneuf anymore, as the Leafs probably set a high asking price for him as well. There could be more affordable options via trade or free agency. Speaking of the Red Wings…
Updates on the Red Wings.
DETROIT FREE PRESS: Helene St. James reports Red Wings GM Ken Holland is working the phones exploring the trade market while deciding whether or not he’ll buy out the remainder of Stephen Weiss’ contract. Holland reportedly seeks a “top-six forward with size, and a productive top-four defenseman.”
MLIVE.COM: Ansar Khan, responding to reader e-mail, doubts the Wings will pursue New York Rangers right wing Rick Nash, citing the high asking price (which could include a player like Gustav Nyquist) and his expensive contract. He also doubts the Wings sign an aging Martin St. Louis, but doesn’t rule out the possibility of the Wings pursuing Chicago Blackhawks winger Patrick Sharp. Khan believes Joel Ward’s gritty style could interest the Wings, but his age (34) is a concern.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Wings GM Ken Holland has a reputation in recent years for spending a lot on free agents, but considering how most of his recent investments failed to pan out, I think he’ll be more cautious this time. I also expect he’ll put more effort in exploring trade options this time around. Given his club’s depth in rising young talent, I don’t expect him to get into any crazy bidding wars. If worse comes to worse, he’ll stick with his young players.
Latest on Sharp, O’Reilly and Talbot.
NHL.COM’s Brian Hedger reported the following via Twitter: “Heard from a good source who says (Patrick) Sharp will be traded next week. It’s been expected, but that’s still a big name to lose.
SPORTSNET 590 (via Today’s Slapshot): Elliotte Friedman clarifies that Colorado Avalanche GM Joe Sakic didn’t say he wasn’t shopping Ryan O’Reilly, only that he was hoping to re-sign the center. Friedman adds Sakic was clear that, if he can’t re-sign O’Reilly, he’ll trade him.
TSN 1050: (via Today’s Slapshot): Darren Dreger reports he wouldn’t be surprised if the New York Rangers trade Cam Talbot this weekend or before next week’s draft. At least six teams are reportedly interested in the Rangers backup goalie, with the Edmonton Oilers believed at the top of the list.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Sharp could be traded next week, but it still won’t be that easy finding a new home for a fading winger with two years at $5.9 million remaining on his contract. The Blackhawks also can’t afford to take much back in return…As I stated yesterday, unless O’Reilly is willing to accept less than what he could receive next summer as a UFA (over $7 million per season), or the Avs are willing to pay big bucks to keep him, they’ll have to trade O’Reilly or lose him for nothing next summer to free agency…I wouldn’t be surprised if Talbot is traded before the draft. There’s considerable interest in him, though the Rangers could try to run up the asking price by pushing the interested clubs into a bidding war.
Grumpy Gus raining on all the Stamkos fun….
Stamkos WILL be a Leaf….in 2028
Wat he fails to realise is that TMLSE could make the pitch to Stamkos, that with his addition, the rebuild will be complete. Lets take a look at the theoretical line up in 2 seasons.
Jvr-stamkos-kessel
Lupul-Kadri-nylander
Holland-bozak-komorav
Nilsson/leivo/verganhee/johnson-gauthier-hyman
Phanuef-gardnier
Rielly-hanifin (assuming we draft him, which is unlikely since the leafs hired ohl management, don’t understand why they’d draft ushl)
Percy-loov/polak
Bernier-Reimer
It’s not a cup contender, but its doesn’t look to shabby either. Not to mention the leafs 2016 1st round pick, which could very well be Austin Matthews. Most people also said Babcock wouldn’t come to the hockey Mecca of the Universe but he did. Yzerman is smart, so I doubt he lets stammer walk, but rather give him everything he wants and more. If Stevie Y doesn’t, the markham native is coming home.
Wow is all I have to say about this fairy tale you’ve written, you should be proud this is very creative.
“two hockey executives claiming the Toronto Maple Leafs have set an asking price for right wing Phil Kessel that is “way, way too high” and think “the Leafs will have to eat more of Kessel’s $8 million per season salary than they think.”
Ansar Khan reports ”Detroit no longer interested in pursuing a trade for Phaneuf”
Elliotte Friedman dismissed the possibility of … Stamkos not re-signing with the Tampa Bay Lightning to sign with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Friedman cites the fact the Lightning are a Cup contender while the Leafs are about to engage in a lengthy rebuild.
Geez. Talk about taking the wind out of someone’s sails. Maybe Stamkos saw rghw news bulletin that the Leafs kicked off their “rebuild” by trading Greg McKegg to Florida for Zach Hyman and a 7th rounder.
Nah its just another week of dirt kicking on the Leafs nothing new here…and that McKegg for Hyman trade could turn out to be a good one. Not sure McKegg is anything but a farm hand, not saying Hyman will be more than that either but has more potential than McKegg.
So why did Talon give up a “potential” asset AND a draft pick for someone who may be “nothing more than a farm hand?” Geez. The ink isn’t even dry on the deal and already you’re leaning to overvalue Hyman! LOL.
How is saying he is potentially better than a guy who looks like he could be a career ahler over valuing him? Ink not even dry on the deal and you are alreday dismissing him becaise its something that involves the Leafs you mean? Are you not the same guy who compared Hammond to Hasek and Johnny Bower? lol Fla traded him because he was not going to sign an ELC there so they wanted to get something for him atleast.
Get off your high horse Schticky! A better question might be, is there ever a deal involving the Leafs where you don’t rate the incoming commodity higher than those departing? And no, I never “compared” Hammond to Hasek – what I did do is merely point out that, like Bower and Tim Thomas, he COULD be another goalie who came into the league at an advanced age and go on to blossom. I most certainly did NOT predict that, nor did I ever suggest he would be as good as Bower. Your thin skin is showing again.
Not that I really care what happens in TO but George you might want to get the full story before commenting. Human didn’t want to sign an entry level with Florida. That drives his value down a bit. So Toronto might have gotten the better player just by the fact that Florida was handicapped.
Fair enough. But I DID have the whole story. What I commented on was the tendency to dismiss McKegg as nothing more than an AHLer while Hyman, without ever seeing him perform at the pro level “has more potential than McKegg.” Based on what? And if Florida was “handicapped” could they not have gotten McKegg for Hyman even up without tossing in a draft pick?
The draft pick is conditional, on 7 he signs I believe George. If he dosent the Panthers give up a 7th I believe…Itsa swap of young players who will be looking for contracts. The Panthers get McKegg who has no arbitration but is RFA I believe and Leafs get a players rights who is likely to be better than McKegg but only have a month before he is UFA. So ifhe doesnt sign the Leafs get a pick.
George I saw Mckegg plenty in Jr and AHL he’s nothing special.
I never suggested he was. I was just getting a chuckle out of the fact that step one in the great off-season character-changing “re-build” was to exchange two non-entities. But I suppose humour at this juncture in Leafs history is a no-no in some quarters.
LOL. How about the fact they were about to get ABSOLUTELY nothing for him? I guess they wanted to make sure they got something for him, the draft pick is called insurance if he doesnt sign. Leaf haters are hilarious, doesnt matter what its about, if it has something to do with the Leafs, haters are there to troll
Mckegg had his chance to show what he was made of or at least show that he was heading in the right direction; but after 5 years in the Leaf system, he was all he was ever going to be here as determined by Shanny n Company and apparently,he wasn’t going to make it in the Leaf system
McKegg played for Hunter in London too – must not have liked what he saw there – he’d have a good take on his potential as a pro…
Sweet, I cant wait to hear what everyone in the world thinks of Dion Phanuef and Phil Kessel today.
News flash. 99% of the “world” wouldn’t know Phaneuf and Kessel if they tripped over them.
I hope the Leafs don’t over price their assets like Kessel Phaneuf and Bozak. Take the best offer available and get on with the rebuild. Let’s not drag this on and get even less later. Could also see if NJ is interested in JVR for the 6th overall pick. That would allow the Leafs to take a defenceman (Hanifin or Provorov)with the 4th pick and a forward like Lawson Crouse with the #6 pick.
Ya get what ever they can get because it will be fun, hearing about more bad Leaf trades for another decade.
well unfortunately—phil kessel is a big time star with a top centre and when he goes for a marginal trade—that will never equal what he’s worth—-we will be hearing about how awesome he really is—its not easy doing everything yourself—and being double teamed
When or if Kessel/Phaneuf r traded the Leafs will get what the market determines.
Irrelevant what pundits think if good or bad but a deal to rebuild is still most likely.
Resulting in less options for trade partners the Leafs will most likely get a Kesler type of deal done.
Since the latest CBA teams r less inclined to deal picks n prospect assets in big deals n lock up their best core players to long term deals. Not all r wise nor the term sensible yet thats the current way of it n explains the lack of big name UFA’s. I see the game moving moving more n more to speed n skill n size less important.
Gaudreau n Johnson have shown thats the case.
Kessel is in that boat but @$8m per he really a $6m value. Cap space is key as u all know n $8m+ contracts r for superstars or impact players in both the regular season n playoffs only. If Phil added 1 more fimension to his game he’s be very attractive but thats a big IF.
Phaneuf has been maligned by most mainly over his contract n rightfully so. That said he is an excellent 2nd pair D man n can still hammer the puck or hit players if not asked to be the top D man. IMO he would fit in CBJ. Both the Oilers n The Avs would be a good restart for him as well if they don’t expect him to be the next Messiah.
I have every bit of confidence in this management group that the leafs will not be taking Crouse no matter how many picks they have. The days of trading up to get Tyler Biggs are over. It’s skill and speed.
I understand the hesitation of a big guy who dosent seem to put up many points, but Crouse could probably kill penalties in the NHL next year his all around game is unreal and skstes pretty well actually…not sure he is anything like Biggs. Not that I see him fitting the Leafs but easily one of the top guys in the OHL this year. He would be a perfect fit in Calgary, reunited with Bennett. Theres a reason he is ranked where he is, but no not going to put up a tone of points.
Guys like him can be had I. The second and third rounds. Were you happy with the leafs picking gauthier where they did? I just see there being guys with more of an offensive upside to the game like ratanen, zacha, Meier, definitely barzal that I’d pick in the top of the draft before getting a responsible big guy like crouse.
Ya no I disagree with guys like Crouse can be had in the second or third rounds without a great deal of luck…When Crouse was on the ice this year the other team just didnt have the puck or at least didnt have it for long. Hard to explain but if you seen the guy play you would understand I am sure. Kinda reminds me of Callahan but way better speed and hands. You may have seen some comparisons to Neely and while that maybe a bit of a stretch, its not completely out of the question either.
I hope to god the Leafs don’t select Crouse. I totally agree with you Aki. I see him being a little more like Bickell with a little more upside. Wait until the third or fourth round to pick up a guy like that. I’m really hoping for Marner and hope they don’t pass on him. Small guy with heart. Gotta love him.
Your right I haven’t seen him play as much as I probably should to have an opinion like I do. Just seems like he benefits from his size, compared to younger ohl players who may not have grown into a man quite as quick as him. He also seemed to have benefited from Bennett coming back.
Thinking now it does seem silly to be arguing about a guy that any team would take in a second. I just would take other guys over him first.
I’m with you Shticky. Crouse is relentless with his puck pursuit, great leader, and good wheels for a big man. Not to say he’s my first pick, but I wouldn’t hate picking a faster version of Lucic to start the rebuild. The Leafs haven’t had that kind of on/off ice leadership in a very long time.
He is going to be a great power forward. I am hoping the Oilers somehow get him (I know it’s not realistic). He’s big strong, nasty, with offence. And a team guy. He drove the younger players on his team to school. They called him the sheriff! I Would love to see Edmonton trade their 16 pick up to Toronto to Draft McDavid and Crouse. He would be a great fit on the Oilers.
No way is JVR worth the #6 pick
So a proven 26 year old top 6 winger who was drafted 2nd overall with a great contract and avgs 50-60 points per season over the past 3 seasons isnt worth the 6th pick? Ummm you overvalue draft picks…by quite a bit. The 6 pick alone wouldnt get JVR.
I am sorry you are correct. I forgot he is a leaf. So his value is increased.
A 2nd overall pick for a 6th overall? No thanks. They should definitely keep JVR.
Oilers should work out a deal with their old buddy Sather and their #16 over all for Talbot & Klein
I don’t gets by O’Reily is getting so much money or attention. 18 goals avg these days.
He plays a two way game that could play all forward positions
I admit have not seen ROR play much but throwing out the 7million dollar contract about him seems early. Is he on the level of Bergeron or Kesler?
Absolutely not.
Living on the Left Coast gives a better insight tobwhat ROR truly is vs ppl back East in bef n not in touch as much.
In ROR u have a very young 2-way C that compliments any top 6 line. Think of Kesler/Bergeron at the high end but a very close comparison. The guys game fits into any team n cuz his stats r not flashy thats overlooked. Ppl who want stats r not thinking straight. If u want to win u want an all around 2-way C on at least one of the top 2 lines to go far.
Thank you. Not to mention is one of the NHL leaders in takeaways.
People need to stop looking on the stats page when evaluating players and really watch some games.
ROR is a winner. He brings everything to the table you want in a 2nd line centre. He can also play LW and that’s a big plus for some orgs out there.
I’d be over the moon to have him on my team for the next 7 years at a hit of 6-7 mill.
Not sure I want a 2 C making 7 mill…
Shticky
a 2-way 2 C makin 7m beats a 1 dimensional winger making 8m. That said ROR will help any team he plays for.
That big 2 way center is playing hockey for a team run by one of the best 2 way centers in the game who doesnt want to pay him 7 mill per year and has him playing wing as much as he had him playing center. Something doesnt seem right lol.
I am not sure, tho go thru the list of good 2 way centers in the league…about hpw many are there? Now go thru the list of right wingers you knpw the guys who get paid to put up points….how many put up 80 points a year on a bad team? Not trying to get in a debate about whos better, but if your 2 C or winger Is making 7 mill how much is your top line worth? RoR has 20 goals on a very good offemsive team 1 time in 6 years, Im not a bigh fan of plus minus I actually hate it as a stat but since everyone seems so keen on pointing out Phils…for such a deffensive stalwart seems like he is a minus player every year. Or does playing on bad teams
only count for some? ROR is not worth 7 mill I can list a dozen good 2 way forwards that have simmilar numbers for far less money.
I don’t understand the excitement or desire surrounding teams and Patrick sharp. As stated he is aging and declining player who still makes 5.9 mil. As for cup experience, Ladd, buff, bolland, versteeg, on so on have all had this cup experience and have all failed outside of Chicago. Also as stated Chicago can’t take a player with salary back so I have a hard time seeing them getting much of anything in a trade.
I can see them getting a couple picks (2nds) and a very good prospect or a guy on an entry level deal.
I don’t really believe a word that a gm says this time of year. It is all about benefiting themselves. Lowering the prices for players they are looking at or increasing the value of a guy they are looking to trade. Of course the leafs are asking high on phaneuf and kessel, wouldn’t you start high on selling your house?
Hey Spec, re your Holland comment. The phrase should either be “if worse comes to worst” or “if worst comes to worst”. In the former, the usage has been to describe an event that is already bad but becomes worse; the latter to describe if the worst situation contemplated actually happens. However, to be fair, many Americans seem to misuse the phrase to say, as you have, “if worse comes to worse”.
Sorry to rag on you. I enjoy your insights and read daily, so keep your comments coming.
Now you made me hesitate weather to comment or not; because I am fully aware of bad my grammar is. See I don’t think you’re suppose to end a sentence wit is?
Wow. Spec has been hit by the grammar police.
Like eye care 😉
Dave Grammar Guy, You really need to get out of the house more often.
Totally agree with your assesment of the 2 lists, Muir does have more sellable players on his list, including Gilbert in Montreal who is as good as gone. Replacing him with Pateryn will create 2.2 mil in cap space and I think Bergevin will take a 3rd rounder (if he can’t get a 2nd); this move is all the Habs need to do to respect the cap. Detroit may have their eyes on him as they were after him during last year’s free agency.
Not to poop in your dreams but you won’t be getting a 3rd for Gilbert. The guy has a history of injuries, he’s a boarder line top 4 on a bad team but more likely bottom pairing guy.
You’d be lucky to get a 4rth back but most likely a 5th and maybes low level prospect.
I should have specified “late 2nd rounder”; but yeah, even a 4th rounder solves Montreal’s cap situation, and takes the handcuffs off of Bergevin for any future dealings.
Sometimes on this site the comments confuse me, weather its by Lyle or another media person or one of us. For example O’Reilly if they can’t sign him they better trade him or lose him for nothing next year. Then I read Boston could trade Lucic to fee up cap space; then you hear no one going to do that because he’s an ufa next season and their not going to want to give up assets for a guy who could walk next season. That’s like talking out of both side of your mouth. Everyone is tradable depends on what your willing to do to facilitate the transaction. It be more appropriate to say they may not got the value they want for him because he is a pending ufa next season or if the team trading thinks they’ll be able to resign the player.
Weather= The state of the atmosphere according to wind, temperature, moisture etc.
and they all play an important part whether the player gets moved or not.
Exactly.
Well that’s the thing. Depends when they get traded also. If it’s past July 1st then the team they are possibly being traded to can start negotiating a new contract so that the deal can go through.
It’s risky at best to do it before then but it’s been implied and speculated that teams and agents actually do talk about it before then in order to get some guidelines at the possibility of resigning them. Yea, it’s not actually legal in terms of the rules of the NHL but it happens every so often.
So it all depends.
has there ever been a star player of stamkos ability, sign a friendly contract of lets say…7 mil/15 years? Im not even sure its possible to sign someone that long anymore with the new CBA.
but given that amount of money and time he would have his security and keep his team a contender
comments/concerns?>
How about JT’s contract with the Isles?
The new CBA allow teams to resign their players for 8 years max. Other teams can only sign UFA’s for 7 years.
Getting tired of the Talbut to the Oilers for the 16th overall. Isn’t going to happen, you don’t give a 16th pick for a back up , sorry won’t happen. Maybe a late second. If NYR want more then move on there are 4 or 5 goalies that will be moved shortly and only 3-4 teams looking for a goalie. The team that asks the most may end up getting the least.
I agree it’s a bit silly but if there’s a bidding war going on then you never know. The oilers do not want to lose out on a goalie this year.
Talbot for a first is a little silly when you look at the D-corp that was playing in front of him. He’s a bit of a wildcard if you ask me as to how good he really is. Especially on a porous team like Edmonton.
Lehner if you ask me is a much safer bet. He has the pedigree to be a top tender league. His career so far has hinted at that. His trajectory could place him amongst the best Ina few years. I actually think it’s a stupid idea to trade him. But if they do I could see a first going the other way because of all I’ve mentioned.
Canuck fan here.
Talbot does not fetch a 1st in my world ever. UFA 2016
Lehner is young but i’m not sold on him at all.
Lack IMO is more proven under fire than both the above.
I say this cuz he makes the save on Grade A chances more often albeit the odd soft goal too. UFA 2016
Summary: Lack has proven he can hold the fort better. Now idk if JB would trade to a rival but IMO u take the best deal n live with it. Oilers 2015 2nd.
Sign Lack for 4m/5yrs
Can you show me where you get your info on Lack making saves on more grade A chances. Be an interesting read for me.
Observation from watchin Canucks games. Our D is solid but gives up many quality scoring chances at times. The faster skating teams create problems for our D. NYR under AV as did the Canucks did when here stifle those chances from occurring as often.
Lehner simply has too small a sample base to be to predict.
The Penguins search for a top six winger is interesting. Sutter surely could fetch such a player, but the guys available don’t really seem to make much sense for the Pens stated goal of getting younger and faster on the wings. Of the guys mentioned, Oshie seems to make the most sense given his age and the Blues need for center depth (assuming Sobotka stays in Russia). Doubtful that Oshie’s style of play is really what the Pens are looking for though.
Given the Pens lack of forward prospects, do you think that the Pens could look to move Sutter/other roster players for promising guys who are not really established yet? A guy like Anthony Mantha comes to mind.
Penguins are looking for a winger and the Rangers are looking for a center, Malkin for Nash win win for both teams
Nash + for Malkin IMO
Maybe but you have to remember Nash has an awesome two way game, Malkin does not although I believe he is better offensively so it evens out . The salary is about the same and the Pens could use a goal scorer who plays a defensive game also, and the Rangers get their number 1 center they have been searching for.
Nash sucks, no thank you on so many levels. Not trading Malkin and if we did it would be for a lot more than a fading, streaky, slumpy winger that is useless in the playoffs. Never in a million years will this deal happen.
Back to Hamilton if i may…
If Calgary offered up 7/7 for him n force Boston to match it would be great. Boston getting squeezed like a pimple would make my day n Burkeys. Give up a 1st 2nd 3rd is a bargain the way Calgary is set up now.
The West would be scary n the dominos would fall in a very interesting way. Flames cap room is there even with future RFA’s comin up n a lil creativity could put Calgary n a fantastic place for many years to come.
where’s the luv above?
At the 7 million it’s 2 1sts a 2nd & a 3rd & they have to be your own.
Thx Shticky i stand corrected
Me bad. The threshold for 2 1sts is 7.3 mill & change.
There is no way there r 12 C at 7m or less better than ROR.
What i believe most ppl r hung up on is 7m is a large cap hit.
Add to that the difficult contract talks with the Avs previously.
Kesler was no Saint in Van but at 5m was n is a bargain. He will get 7m+ his next deal.
ROR is much like Johansen in CBJ seeing his value being more at a younger age. Subban fid the bridge contact n was ovey rewarded. GM’s do n think as they please but rigid ideology is imperfect n some players break from that mold.
IMO ROR though not a stellar point producer is invaluable given his all around game.
Ar 24yrs old a 7m/7yr deal takes him to 31 n still another contract left for him assuming his health n my opinion of his worth n performance being as i think it is. I do agree that 7m sticks out line a sore thumb given the current salaries league wide but though some r daft deals others make perfect sense even JT/PK in ChiTown.
It comes down to designing n defining what a GM sees as core players goung forward n if ROR fits that mold.
Furthering the case for ROR given he is on a team that can win eg my Canucks.
Id say if Hank was retired or simply gone ROR would be welcome here.
A GM can draft n groom complimentary wingers for him if not had already. It goes back to strength up the middle is key. A ROR/Kessel combo would or could be very dynamic for example. Tronna has the offence as proven n idc about the collapses either. ROR is the type of player that can help a team get thru those rough patches that they always go thru. His style is what a rebuild always needs to improve. If u cannot dradt or acquire impact players u go for for a top 2 C that is good 2-ways.
1 oReilly plays wing almost as much as he does center.
Kessler 5 mill 20 goals
Couturier 1.5 mill 15 goals
Bergeron 6.8 mill 23 goals
Dubinski 14 goals (49 games) 5.8 mill
Seguin 5.75 mill
Bjugstad 5.25 25 goals
Kyle Turris 3.5 25 goals
Plekanec 5.00 25 goals
Mike Fisher 19 goals
Tavares 38 goals 5.5 mill
Stepan 3.1 mill 16 goals
Brassard 5 mill 19 goals
Brandon Sutter 3.3 mill 21 goals
Pavelski 6 mill 28 goals
Couture 6 mill 26 goals.
There are 15 very good 2 way players with similar if not better numbers than ROR for less money I could list more if we consider all forward positions because OReilly plays wing almost as much as center…..a 2 c like ROR to me anyway not worth 7 mill.
Outta all those i’d say only 7 would what i consider core players.
Kesler
Bergeron
Seguin
Bjugstad
Tavares
Pavelski
Couture
All the rest have a variety of reasons for contract $’s.
Only ROR was awarded 6m/yr on an arbitration bridge contract. Only Johansen was an example of a hold out that cashed in. ROR is next albeit at a young age of 24yrs but his situation is not the norm. Proof will be what hus next contract is n where n he holds the cards.
ROR’s 6 million dollar deal wasn’t from arbitration but an offer sheet by Calgary that Colorado matched.
And thats not really even getting in to the debate over guys like Backlund Kadri Johansen Duchene Lehtera Filpula Johnson Little, who again are good defensively and put up similar numbers for almost half fwhat he is asking. The Flames offer sheet wrecked ROR.
Hard to argue that
The circumstances r dictating the presumed market value of ROR.
The anomalies eg Subban bridge contract n ROR offer sheet r not typical of most player contracts. Hamilton is next up n curious what his new deal will be n how that will make the landscape look.
I’m not sure why your only showing goals. When looking at players I think we need to look at their last 3 seasons of play, both goals & points plus look at the other factors. Face offs, ice time, hits, blocked shots, give a ways, take a ways, offensive & defensive zone starts, etc. Not all C’s are goal scorers.
ROR certainly hasn’t peaked yet. His #’s this year regressed as he was tasked with being the shut down C this year & he played C this season. Last season as a LW he blossomed with 28 goals & 64 points. Colorado struggled to score consistently this season. Losing Stastny & having McKinnon experience the sophomore slump effected everyone’s #’s as well as injuries & a sub par defense.
ROR lead the league in take a ways with 98, tied actually with Stone. He was 21st in the league the # of faceoffs taken with 1334 & only 7 of the players who took as many or more face offs than ROR had better winning face off %’s & of those only 3 put up more points, Bergeron tied him at 55.
I don’t want to pay ROR 7 million either but he is going to get that & probably more as he either becomes a UFA next summer or he’s paid what he wants. Teams will line up to give him what he wants whether we like it or not. This is the NHL we live in.
Trying to compare contracts signed today compared to contracts signed last season, the 1 prior, the 1 before that, etc is a waste of time. Inflation is running rampant in the NHL. The latest contracts are going to be higher. You wait & see what Kesler’s next contracts for. He’s in the same position as ROR. A UFA in 1 season & is the most similar asset to ROR. It’s not all about points with these 2 extremely solid #2, 2 way C’s. The big difference is ROR is 6 & a 1/2 years younger than Kesler. The next closest comparable for me is Bergeron who signed an 8 year deal 2 years ago for a cap hit of 6.875.
Whether a player is coming off his ELC, has arbitration rights, waiver rights, etc all play into his contract. Col is in this position as Calgary made him a ridiculous offer sheet & what choice did Colorado have but to match.
It is what it is.
Agree…
U delved into the totality of ROR. Statistics n analytics only say so much. The intangibles r not equatable.
The eyes r the last factor determining a proper assessment of talent n worth.
My eyes like what i see.
Paying for intangibles leads to co tracts like Clowe and Clarkson, take aways is a skewed stat similar to plus minus…yes he does have decent adv stats so does Backlund who just signed a deal to day for 10.75 for 3 years… Gordie your eyes told you he was a center again he played as much wing. Where was Bozak on that list of face 8ffs striker and his 4,25 mill? (Who also puts up similar numbers) Ill stand by my comment ROR (who is a player I like a d had hoped for a Leaf deal
involving him) is not worth 7 mill.
Bozak took 1775 face offs & was .02% less efficient. He only posted 49 points & was the #1 C in Toronto in all offensive situations & got both Toronto’s best wingers, a luxury ROR did’t have. Nor does he have the slightest inclination of how to back check, play defensively nor force turn overs.
Your thoughts & a tunny will get you a large coffee, tea or hot chocolate at Timmy’s. Whether we feel he is worth 7 million isn’t relevant. I agree with you but he’s going top get it either in Colorado or else where & else where he may play as the #1 center as opposed to #2 which will be reflected in his points production.
You seem to want to look at any 1 specific stat that sells your point. You have that luxury but that’s not how it works in the real world. Players are paid for a whole range of skills including intangibles. I don’t like it any more than you do but I accept it.
All I’m doing is providing a fuller picture comparing him against his peers. In that scenario it says he’s worth it. Hell I don’t think any single player in the NHL is worth 7 million in a 71 million dollar cap world. If I’m a GM I’m not paying 1 player essentially 10% of my budget.
Agents are trying to extrapolate what the market will actually be 5 years from now or further when signing these 7 & 8 year deals for stars, superstars etc. What’s a Bergeron, Kesler or ROR worth signing a contract 3 to 5 years from now? I can assure you it’s going to be substantially more than 7 million.
Tyler Bozak 1775 faceoffs 54 % winning percemtage (5th)
23 goals 26 assits 49 points..all higher than ROR and he is a shorter term 4.25 mill…OReilly is not worth 7 mill over 7 years yes Bozak played with Kessel but its not like the Abs top 6 is chopped liver either…..
And just becaise someone is willing to give it to him doesn’t really mean he is worth it or the Abs wouldnt be in this mess with him to begin with. Same as Clarkson Clowe Semin Ward or other numerious goaltenders. Aywhhooo…..lol
Bozak is well priced.
ROR is more versatile.
Leafs have not a single player capable of playing a shutdown role. ROR can n has been used by Roy like that. He can play what role the coach gives him. U can surround him with wingers u want him to play with. He makes a line tick.
“He makes a line tick”
…not sure about this year, but last year Landeskog Stastny, Duchene Sarich Benoit were better without him, (wowy)..if the Avs can sign him long term for aboit what he makes now Id say thats about right, if he wants 7 mill per Id deal him and let him be someone elses mistake for the next few years…down the road when the cap inflates it wont be bad but there are way better options for a 2 C…if you give ROR 7 mill what does that say to Duchene McKinnion? What does that make Barrie or Johnson worth? You are going to pay him 2 million mre than your captain who puts up the same type numbers? It screws up anykind of capstructure
An argument for Turris could be made though.
All the rest IMO r significant cogs on their team but not ROR IMO. I simply believe in ROR more so but i do question his contractual dealings a bit.
I guess what ROR would do in the playoffs for a team decides his true value. I’d ne willing to bet he would prove out well most likely.
I do understand all arguments against ROR also.
Remains to be seen
Paying for intangibles led to Clowe n Clarkson contracts yes. Apples n Oranges.
Clarkson deal was a brain fart the moment it was signed.
Same goes for Richards.
Never a doubt.
I ‘d say ROR is hardly a fair comparison.
Clowe had Thornton n was slow but at least had more history but thats all he can now claim. Neither prijected into success after moving for a reason. Neither were a C.
Where Roy plays ROR does not make ROR a winger on another team. He’s simply versatile n plug n play.
I have no issues with Bozak n his contract. The role he plays n his performance for his contract is fine by me. In all fairness he is a scapegoat for some ppl solely due to where he is played. It only indicates the talent is not there for him to challenged atm.
Thanks to everyone for the great conversations this week. I don’t usually get to participate much other than posting 1 or 2 comments a day but I had the week off work to get a new fantasy league set up, for a group of 20 guys out of Texas of all places. There initial draft is tomorrow, so I had time to fully participate this week & really enjoyed it. I can’t believe we have 20 newbies who have never really followed hockey starting a very expensive perpetual fantasy league. God love them.
I have enjoyed the discussion & hearing your thoughts even though I may agree or disagree & Lyle only pulled a couple of my posts for use of profanity, Ha-ha! but it’s back to the real world.
Be good, be happy & be well. Here’s hoping the next 3 weeks are everything we all hope for. Trades, UFA signings, more trades, more trades, more trades.
Thoughts from the bench.
Striker.