Fallout from the Patrick Sharp trade, plus the latest on the Canucks and an update on Dion Phaneuf.
Fallout from the Sharp trade.
Can the Blackhawks afford to bring back Johnny Oduya?
CSNCHICAGO.COM: Tracey Myers reports the Chicago Blackhawks acquiring defenseman Trevor Daley as part of the return for last night’s Patrick Sharp trade with the Dallas Stars seems to rule out the ‘Hawks bringing back UFA defenseman Johnny Oduya. However, Blackhawks GM Stan Bowman isn’t ruling out that possibility. It’s still sort of a fluid situation and there are a lot of factors at play,” Bowman told Myers.
CHICAGO TRIBUNE: Chris Kuc suggests it’s possible the Blackhawks might still do more, pointing out Bowman still has to re-sign RFA center Marcus Kruger
BLEACHER REPORT’s Adrian Dater cites an NHL source claiming Oduya “will not be retained by the Blackhawks.”
THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS: Mike Heika reports it seemed unusual that the Stars, who were ranked 26th overall last season at 3.13 goals-against per game, would acquire a scoring winger like Sharp. However, Stars GM Jim Nill believes young defenseman Stephen Johns, who was dealt along with Sharp to the Stars, is nearly NHL ready. Nill also has sufficient cap space if he wants to add another defenseman via trade or free agency.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: I think the Blackhawks and Stars still have some moves to make. The Blackhawks are barely under the salary cap now and have 21 players under contract for next season, with Kruger to be re-signed. They also only have six defensemen under contract, with five of those on one-way deals. They could still shop wingers Bryan Bickell ($4 million annual cap hit) or Kris Versteeg ($2.2 million). Indeed, that’s what it wil take if they still intend on signing Oduya.
As for the Stars, trading away their most experienced defenseman in Daley leaves them with a promising, but still young, blueline corps. Perhaps they’ll try to add a veteran rearguard via free agency, where Oduya and Cody Franson remain available.
Latest on the Canucks.
THE PROVINCE: Jim Jamieson recently reported Vancouver Canucks GM Jim Benning won’t try to re-sign defenseman Dan Hamhuis and winger Radim Vrbata this summer. Both are eligible next summer for UFA status and currently have no-trade clauses.
Jason Botchford speculated Vrbata, Hamhuis, Yannick Weber, Brandon Prust and Chris Higgins could become trade candidates toward next season’s NHL trade deadline. All are eligible next summer for UFA status and might not fit into the club’s long-term plans.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: It appears Benning will take a “wait-and-see” approach with those players to gauge their performance next season before deciding on who to retain and who to trade.
Phaneuf likely returning with the Leafs.
THE SCORE: Justin Bourne recently suggested we shouldn’t be surprised if the Toronto Maple Leafs opt to retain captain Dion Phaneuf, whose performance could improve under new head coach Mike Babcock. The Leafs could try to find a true number-one defenseman to take some of the pressure off Phaneuf. Perhaps promising Morgan Rielly can someday move into that role.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: It’s interesting how Phaneuf’s trade status has changed since the end of the regular season. Until the Leafs hired Babcock, it was accepted wisdom Phaneuf, like the now-departed Phil Kessel, would be dealt this summer. Now, it’s apparent the Leafs intend to retain their captain for at least another season. Maybe Phaneuf requests a trade if the Leafs keep struggling. Maybe he doesn’t improve and the Leafs peddle him at the trade deadline. Or perhaps Phaneuf has a long-term future in Toronto after all.
Personally I think they opted to keep him at the deadline because return would have been minimal. They were hoping the market would change this summer but it hasn’t. They will trade him at the first opportunity but they won’t just give him away. Maybe a year under Babcock will help him. Maybe a change in the salary cap outlook will make him look more palatable. Also, teams are going to want the leafs to retain salary.
Lyle, is it correct that a team can only have two retained salaries on the books at one time?
It’s three.
You want Dion to play better,then take some of heat off him. Get him someday to play with in his defensive pairing and strengthen the 2nd pairing.
Im of the mind set that you find someone to play with Reilly as your “top pair” and try and use Dion properly with more offensive zone starts pptime and less top line matchups… divide the minutes up a little more evenly and play him in the second pair…not rocket science he was a norris candidate in that role, came to Toronto and that role changed. It didnt work out now just accept it move on from “but look what he gets paid!” and use him like he should be used….Funny about off to detroit at the deadline then just anywhere other than here until Babcock shows up then ….welll maybe we will keep him. lol gee think Babcock thinks he is a problem?
Most players’ success is based on how they are used, how a player’s talents are best utilized by their teams. Look at Dom Moore, bounced around the league until he landed in NY and became the best 4th line center in the league.
Dion is an easy target for many reasons, but if you play the guy with someone who can watch his back, maybe just maybe he will become an asset to the Leafs. It will help even more if Reilly and another dman can make up the 2nd pair.
Dion my very well perform better under Babcock. Yet I have my concerns. Babcock’s system isn’t the easiest to perform. It requires skilled plays and everyone to be on the same page, if the team struggles as they attempt to adapt to the new system it could make Pahaneuf look bad despite his best efforts. There is many reasons why Detroit lets their prospects mature in the minors longer than most. The extra time is needed to insure they can come into the league and operate with in the Detroit system.
Maclean attempted to utilize something much similar in Ottawa. One of the reason I felt they struggled to implement it was the lack of skill on the Sens roster and the age of he roster. The shift to Cameron who puts in place a north self, heaven forcheck type system and the team suddenly turned around.
I think with Babcock the leafs need time to get the system in place he utilizes, which is a puck possession, move the puck fast through the pass and defensively a left wing lock from what I can tell. I would not be surprised if many of their players stats take a hit as they adjust to this new system and that many of their youth will struggle under it, it will take time to get all on page but it is evident with Babcocks success in Detroit it works.
Babcock doesn’t really like the skilled plays. He doesn’t like players to improvise or play to their strengths. He wants them to play safe at all times and play his way only. His perfect team would be a bunch of grinders that work hard with size that chip and chase and dump in all the time. The only problem for him is that Holland and the Wings mainly drafted small skilled players so he overplayed the grinders with size he did have and put them in roles they weren’t fit for.
I’m glad Babcock is gone from Detroit and I hope Blashill doesn’t try to copy Babcock much.
Really, Yxerman, Lidstrom, Shannahan, Zetterberg, Tatar, Nyqviat. Alfredsson, Kronwall, almost forgot Datszuk and your telling me Babcock don’t like skilled guys. I would think he loved each and every one of these guys,
My point being. Ottawa had Karlsson with the skill on the back end to do the Deteoit system but no one else and the top end guys are Turris, MacArthur and Ryan. Compared to the list of players I just listed from Detroit there is a massive skill drop off,
Cowen, Weircoich, stone, Hoffman and all the other youth in Ottawa struggled. Even Spezza who doesn’t have an sound defensive game. Babcock’s system requires skill and use of the entire ice, with and with out the puck. The system now I. Ottawa is simply get puck, push it up the other end of the ice as best you can, carry it, dump it, pass it. Who cares and go forcepheck and back check and make something happen. Where Deteoit would have mainly passing plays to exit the zone and get down the ice,
Ottawa had to basically came to the game plan.
1. If your name is Karlsson you carry the puck up the ice,
2. If your name is not Karlsson, give the puck to Karlsson
3. If Karlsson gives puck to you, you put it to the thee end of the ice or give it back to Karlsson.
Sounds like Don Cherry method of coaching. And i like it
I still can’t believe the leafs didn’t take the deal at the deadline that Damion Cox said was on the table Dion to Wings for Temmu Pulkkinen(I think had most points per game in AHL last season) Brandon Smith and Stephen Weiss. Also I think the Leafs should look at taking bickell off the Hawks hands to help them with their cap situation and get a decent prospect or picks for helping with cap relief. This move would make Grapes happy as he loves Bickell.
Dion should also give up the “C “. The captain is a burden that he can not handle on this team.
I agree if he is not willing to give it up it should be taken and wait for a true leader to come forth
This aint Lord of the Rings…Leadership has to come from more than 1 guy and a team including the Captain takes on the personality of its coach and management…its been a Gong Show in Toronto for years long before Dion and its easy to pick on the high priced talent and guys with letters on their jersey. You leave the C on him unless you trade him quit with the Gong show.
I too thought it was weird that the Stars traded a D-man. Especially one of their best in Daley, but then I thought maybe Nill has other plans for D? Like maybe signing Franson to a 1 year deal? I think he would be a good fit even though they have two top right hand shots. He would probably cost less than once imagined but I think Franson would want more than one year though.
I’m really impressed with how Bowman has been backed into a cap corner but has made trades to get valuable pieces at decent prices. They are going to come back with, imo, a stronger D corps with Daley, a big, solid two way center in Anisimov and Dano who will be a great forward, winger or center. Their forwards may have taken a hit but they don’t have issues scoring. It will be fun to see how they do. I think they will do better
Better then winning a Cup ??
lol I think I know what you mean
Well maybe they won’t skip a year when they win the next cup haha. That is about the only way this team can improve record wise.
Yet I pretty sure he means as an over all team through out the entire year.
It will be interesting to see what JQ does with Dailey…still dont like the trade but I guess take what ya can get in some cases, but if its a choice between Oduya and Dailey Id take Oduya. Now if they e nd up trading Bicklle away for lttile to nothing the Cap cost them Sharp Oduya Bickell Johns (who from somethings zive read on him seems like a decent prospect) amd got a plug (Garbutt) Dailey and someother small piece with little in the way of cap relief depending on Bowmans next move…seems rough to me. Have to see how this plays out, maybe do they try and move Dailey?
I don’t know Schticky. I always liked Dailey. He was over utilized in Dallas. Needs to be that mid pair D. But he is big and physical and element he can add to the skilled back end of the Hawks and not take to much away from the skill. Also Sharp has been under utilized by the Hawks with all their skill up front.
The trade was a surprise to me but I think it works out just fine. Considering that the Hawks were up against a wall in regards to dealing Sharp, everyone knowing they needed to move him. The only thing they could count on to up Sharps price was a bidding war.
As a hockey trade I quite like it. I am surprised though that the Hawks did not clear up more cap room in the deal. So I guess I will take back my post from yesterday about cap not effecting much this year. haha. You were right there. The Hawks seem to still need to deal and the Stars I would imagine need to shore up their back end after this.
Yeah it will be interesting to see how Dailey plays in Chicago. I was never a Roszival fan but he seemed to play pretty good with the Hawks. Maybe Dailey will get the same mojo and pick up his game.
Daley is big and physical? You say you like the guy but it doesn’t sound like you know anything about him. He’s terrible.
I admit I didn’t watch him regularly as he plays in Dallas but had him in my hockey pool and he did well for me with the physical stats, Then looked pretty tough the little I saw hoof hi kin highlights,
The same people making the same claims about Phaneuf yet refusing to look at the facts. Dion is Toronto’s #1 Dman. He logs all the heavy lifting. He lead the team in TOI/GP at 23:43 & no 1 was even close; Franson was 2nd at 21:23; 10% less & no where near the hard defensive minutes, & did so well only going minus 11 on a brutal defensive team. Those 23:43 were good for 25th overall in the entire NHL for Dman!
He was tied for 2nd in points for Damn in Toronto & this after having his roll as the number 1 power play Dman significantly reduced by Franson, Gardiner & Reilly over those 2 seasons as well as offensive deployments. Still good enough for 54th overall for scoring by Dman in the entire NHL.
He`s also a willing hitter & shot blocker, he was 2nd in Toronto for both & 28th & 53rd overall in the entire NHL respectively for Dman.
I get to watch Toronto 3, sometimes 4 times per season live & at least another 6 to 8 games minimum on TV as well as numerous high light & low light replay feeds. Yes Phaneuf over commits to make hits & he tries to do to much on occasion but his numbers in respect to his piers are solid & place him as a soft number 1 or solid 2 dman. He makes the top 30 in minutes played & hits, top 60 in blocked shots & points & he did all this well missing 12 games with injury playing on 1 of the worst teams in the league.
Now I don`t know how you want to gauge positional rankings but for me it`s fairly straight forward. 30 teams, so 30 number 1 Damn spots available & Phaneuf`s numbers compared to his competition say he makes the top 30 when all things are factored in. Minutes, points, hits, blocked shots, etc.
I get what you saying. Like Karlsson on Ottawa a number 1 D. He needs help quality help. It doesn’t need to be necessarily another #1 or #2 D-man. I sure many would argue Methot is just a top 4 guy on many other teams. But sometimes a #1 guy needs a quality partner to be solidify his game.
Not every player can have a Weber, Doughty, etc. type guy.
Exactly. Phaneuf is a very good defensemen playing on a terrible team. Just moving Kessel completely alters the culture moving forward in Toronto. Phaneuf may well wear the C but Kessel was the straw that stirred the drink. It didn`t matter who coached the team. The number 1 line in Toronto rarely was broken up regardless of how bad they played defensively & van Reimsdyk, Bozak & Kessel were beyond brutal defensively. None had the slightest interest in helping out their D & to think Phaneuf played the most minutes in Toronto by a mile trying to cover for those 3 5 on 5 it`s amazing he got off at minus 11.
I don`t even have an issue with his salary & the term for me wasn`t even that much of an issue although I would have preferred 5 years. Had Phaneuf gone to UFA status he would have gotten all of that & probably even slightly more money.
It`s tough playing in the center of the hockey universe but boy are some of you harsh on your players. I`d be happy to have Phaneuf as his combination of strengths & abilities is a very rare commodity & there aren`t enough to go around. Be happy you have even 1, many teams don`t. Some like Nashville & others have the luxury of having several but that is incredible rare & their not stupid enough to give them up for Pulkkanen, Smith & Weiss.
Good points Striker. If the team record was different he would be a hero. Welcome to Toronto. I think (and hope) Babcock utilizes Phaneuf to his strengths as was mentioned in an earlier post. I would be fine with Leafs taking on Oduya or Franson until their prospects are completely ready to come up in a few years. I think the Leafs will sign guys they can trade at the next couple of deadlines and drafts to continue building draft picks. In the meantime it appears they want to compete, which as a fan pleases me. Its not in my DNA to want to tank like Buffalo. Hats off to Ted Nolan, BTW, he did not either. I hope he lands a good gig somewhere in the AHL.
You now Striker, none of the issues brought up daily would matter if the Leafs were winning. Get the rest of the “D” to perform and alotta people in Toronto will be singing different tunes.
I don’t usually comment on Phaneuf as he’s not as bad as he is made out to be … like Kessel. The insanity in Toronto has blown things way out of proportion. But unlike Kessel, there is no upside to Phaneuf and his contract.
I also make it to the ACC five or six times a year and watch a handful of games. Phaneuf shines against weak opposition and wilts under pressure, forechecking and most displays of skill.
Gone is the kid who was so confident playing at the WJC. Gone is the guy who looked like he belonged in the NHL when he joined Calgary.
Mike Komisarek anyone? Some players just burn out faster than others.
2014-15 Age 29 Base $4,500,000 Bonus $3,500,000 – $7,000,000
2015-16 Age 30 Base $6,000,000 Bonus $2,000,000 – $7,000,000
He is not a top pairing guy even if he may have flirted with #2 potential. In fact, he’d benefit from a strong pairing to maintain 3/4 status.
At 7 million? Who would take that? There may have been a strong interest at the end of last season but playoffs make teams desperate and I’d hedge that most negotiations would have been based on Toronto eating salary. But there is hope. Playoffs are just a regular season away …
You comments about Phaneuf are laughable..
When he broke in to the league it was fun to watch. He was hard hitting got points and was exciting.
Now he seems uninterested, he looks terribly slow on the ice, his defensive game has regressed, he’s losing good minutes to younger/faster players.. All that with a 7 million dollar price tag
And the term!!
Seems like him an TO are married for a while.. Just saying
Striker
I feel the exact opposite of you
The #’s don’t support your argument. Just the opposite in fact.
Phaneuf is a solid 3-4 dman you can look at all the stats you want striker it won’t change who he is as a player dion is a decent dman just overpaid not his fault who wouldn’t sign that contract! He is not a top pairing dman I saw people writing about fransons stats as a leaf and he was a healthy scratch in the playoffs and still isn’t signed I wonder why that is? Just because you put up good stats for a terrible defensive team doesn’t mean those stats tell the whole truth!
I like the site, if you say Toronto player is good then you are a ridiculous Toronto fan who overvalues everyone. If you say I Trentral player isn’t good then you are a crazy Toronto fan who is ridiculously hard on their players.
And I think Dion will do good under Babcock, despite what Jell-O, I mean K, says
Are you sure Striker…
In Toronto
Phaneuf
372 games played
172 points
-26
That’s 0.46 points per game
For a guy who I believe you have admitted..
1.) can’t be a top pairing
And who…
2.) can’t keep up with the
speed in the NHL
3.) can’t be a Captian
He’s just not worth the money
and the term is scary!!!!
TO is saying they want to keep phaneuf because they know there is no way to move him without eating a huge chunk of his contract.
Considering they have to pay for Kessel (bahahaha) management is not to keen to do the same for phaneuf
For arguement sales lets say that +/- is actually a stat thats reliable…
So a guy whos played on one 8f the most out shot out scored teams over 4 seasons who constantly plays too many minutes and top li es only averages about a -7 a year, playing around 25 minutes a game with Deffensive studs like Franson Gleason Gunnarsson Kostka Aulie Fraser…ummm youre not helping youre arguement K none of those guys are even close to too pairing d and 3 of them are not even NHL calibre if anything you are proving Strikers point. .46 points ppg puts him over 30 points per year playing with second rate partners against top players in awful zone starts and over all not giving up that much.
But didn’t take a bad contract back for Kessel that would definitely be more than just over a mill per year…you make it sound like they are paying half his salary. lol
Here comes the spin doctor!!!
38 points a year is not worth 7 million.. Plain and simple!!!
And look at the term!!!!
So scary!!!!
I don’t see what’s wrong with +/- except for the fact it hurts your argument.. Please enlighten me
Glad to see you admitt the team has been horrible over the last couple years… But why should I cut him any slack because of this??
Does this mean we should cut Justin Shultz in Edmonton some slack? And pay him 7 million per year? Similar stats!!!
Ridiculous contract for what Phaneuf brings to the table..
Unless you eat 30% or more he ain’t going anywhere
Lol because he isn’t the one signing trading or coaching the team that is playing Kostka Gunnarrsson Aulie Ranger O’Byrne Granberg McWilliams Robidas…and the like like of these type d men and pretending they are top pairing guys or even
legitimate NHL D men to
play with. The team has crap D because they have had a pile of crap D men lol.
Shultz has been in the league maybe 3 years and a big plus mi us fan such as yourself should
realize that -56 in 200 or
games is much worse
Than -26 in nearly double the amount of games now you’re just talkn non sense. I think they should keep Phaneuf soo.. and I dont don’t mind the contract
k,
uuummmm I;m pretty sure Ryan Suter had 38 points last year as well…let me guess he’s no good too right? oh, wait how about Chara…how many did he get? pretty sure Drew Doughty had 37 points 2 years ago… lets go down the list…Dan Girardi…how many points did he get for his 7 million dollars? brian cambell….kris letang (he got 35, not a huge difference) hey guess what? shea weber had 45 points too….and weber and suter make 11 and 12 million a year!! you are a Bafoon!
The fact that you don’t mind the contract is a huge red flag
Shultz is just a comparable (stats wise) so he’s -56 what ever. My point is neither deserve that kind of $$$
I don’t blame Phaneuf for signing the deal..
Management was throwing out ridiculous contracts!!!!!! and Phaneuf cashed in
(see clarkson contract)
The point is he’s not worth the money and his defensive game is slipping. So you can stop saying “we will just keep him”
The truth is you can’t move him (without eating salary)
K,
what do you know about hockey? all you do is bash the Leafs…I’m not sure you’ve ever watched a hockey game in your lifetime to make sure arguements!!
Dion makes mistakes, all D men do that play against other teams tops lines…he gets paid exactly what a guy who put points on the board, hits and logs over 20 minutes a game makes. you want to look purely at plus minus?? you might want to look at guys like OVie and Semin who make 7 million or more…oh, you want to look at points? go look at Shea Webers points and tell me how many more he gets than Dion…how about Suter…go look at what he gets paid and what he puts up on the board…
you ripped the kessel deal and had no idea what you were talking about…now you’re going to rip on Phaneauf…just curious who’s your team of choice?
phaneuf is payed that extra 1-2 million and has that 1-2 year extra term because he is captain, a vet, experienced, and the one and only dman on the team for the last 5 years and the next 5.
The extra money and term has nothing to do with stats…It was either pay him, kessel and bozak or don’t have a dman, winger, or centre until a player develops (approx. 10 years). They chose to have some “stars” and try to compete (clarkson, bolland), now they changed their mind and are in a bind (as you said)
What else are you gonna do and it happens to most teams