Latest on Anze Kopitar, an update on potentially available defensemen and yes, more on the Calgary Flames in today’s NHL rumor mill.
Kopitar unhappy with Kings management?
Kings center Anze Kopitar is reportedly unhappy with the lack of progress in his contract talks
TSN: Darren Dreger claims Los Angeles Kings center Anze Kopitar isn’t happy with management over the lack of progress in his contract negotiations. Dreger cites those close to Kopitar wondering what more he has to do to prove himself, believing he should “turn up the heat” on GM Dean Lombardi. Bob McKenzie believes if that’s the case, Kopitar could set a deadline to get a deal done in-season. He speculates the Kings center could seek around $10 million annually.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Whenever I’ve suggested Kopitar could earn $10 million annually, some readers dismiss that figure as too much. Folks, he’s led the Kings in scoring in every season since 2007-08, and was their leading scorer in both of their Stanley Cup championship runs. Indeed, I believe Kopitar, not Justin Williams, should’ve won the Conn Smythe Trophy as the 2014 playoff MVP. He was a finalist for the Selke Trophy in 2014 and for the 2015 Lady Byng Trophy. He’s one of the best two-way centers in the game. So yes, he’s worth $10 million annually, and he’ll get it, either from the Kings or another club next summer via free agency.
I believe the stumbling block here is annual salary, as the Kings obviously want a deal that’s more to their advantage, probably up to $9 million annually on an eight-year deal. I can certainly see why they would want that, as they must also re-sign or replace Milan Lucic, Christian Ehrhoff and Jhonas Enroth. $10 million annually cuts deeply into their payroll, especially if the salary cap only marginally increases for 2016-17.
Could this result in the Kings shopping Kopitar? The only way I see that happening is near the Feb. 29 trade deadline, and then only if the Kings are out of playoff contention and Kopitar decides to test the UFA market in July. Right now, it’s far too early to start that speculation.
Several defensemen believed available.
TSN: Bob McKenzie reports there are several defensemen available for clubs seeking blueline depth. He lists Philadelphia’s Luke Schenn, Toronto’s Roman Polak, Tampa Bay’s Matt Carle and Calgary’s Dennis Wideman, though he notes the latter two come with hefty contracts. McKenzie notes it’s still early and several teams seeking defensemen have salary-cap considerations.
CALGARY HERALD: Kristen Odland reports Flames defensemen Dennis Wideman and Kris Russell acknowledged the trade speculation swirling about them, chalking it up to the club’s early-season struggles. Both claimed to be unconcerned, and Wideman said he hasn’t been approached by management about waiving his no-movement clause.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: We’ll likely see trade activity pick up around mid-to-late November, as that tends to be the time when struggling teams start making moves to shake things up. Looking at McKenzie’s list of potentially available blueliners, only Wideman is a clear standout. Schenn’s stock has plummeted, Polak is a third-pairing blueliner on a deep team and Carle is carrying too much salary for the type of game he plays.
I still disagree, perhaps it is because Kopitar is a two way player that I do. Perhaps that aspect of his game should be more appreciated by me but he is a 70 point player, not an 80 or 90 point player. He doesn’t carry a team on his own but always has. A solid supporting cast around him.
10 million is to much for me, 8 million seems right,
Yet I do think you are correct someone will likely pay him 10. That belief probably sets his value at 10 million but I don’t agree with that value.
By that logic, Jeff, Jonathan Toews isn’t a $10.5 million player. And nobody batted an eye when he got that. Yet they’re comparable players, the only difference being Toews is a captain (Kopitar an alternate) who’s won three Cups compared to Kopitar’s two.
The salaries are going the way of the NBA. The top stars will be making $10-12M-and bottom 50% of the roster making near the bottom.
Except basketball is basically a 10-12 man roster and teams can get by with 4 or 5 top paid stars, with the back-ups being the best of a vast market and with a “soft” cap that allows a lot more flexibility. A hockey team is tied to a hard cap and so therefore must do a better balancing act.
As lyle has pointed out-and kane, toews have proven (and kopitar and stamkos will in the future) the stars will be getting their money. That’s the new NHL-everyone else will fall in line.
kopitar is also a semi power forward type player. that’s got to be worth a million extra
10 mil makes me cringe but is fair (nowadays)
problem would be term would 10 million @ 6 years be insulting?
he is 28 years old
Lyle, I couldn’t agree more; with that said, I still believe that both Toews and Kane are over paid. I believe the low Canadian Dollar and Cap not rising is what holding the Kings and any other teams back from handing out such large contracts. The shift we seen during the offseason is affecting every player.
I concur, Caper.
I may be minority but I batted an eye when Chicago handed out those contracts. They are doing their team a disservice by paying two players 30% of their total payroll. You would think that they could have gotten them at Sidney Crosby type of a number. Peter Chiarelli handed out expensive contracts with no-movement clauses like giving candy to kids at halloween, and look where the Bruins are now.
ya but chicago has reaped far more ROI from those 2 contracts then anyone else.
1. they didn;t pay them until after they won the cup
2. after getting paid (and unlike most players), those 2 continued to lead and win..until this day
3. if not mistaken they won 2 more cups after dishing out those contracts
4. there still contending today and limited future
5. those contracts will be tradeable 10 years from now because of the players pedigree
10 mil is max for todays cap but fair if your superstar
too me and others, I think the notion that a ppg player makes that is unreal. what would gretz / lemuiex be worth 20 mil?
I feel that if your gonna payout max then it should be proven before paying, just like chicago did.
if you do that, you probably will be successful and fair; if you don’t you become the leafs.
They agreed to those contracts before they won the cup in 2015, but they kick in this season. Already Brandon Saad and Patrick Sharpe are direct casualties of those ridiculous signings. Neither one are better than Crosby for example. My point was they probably could have signed them for closer to what Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry or Crosby makes. In todays NHL, even saving your team $500,000 on a contract can pay huge dividends down the road. For example, Pete Chiarelli could have probably signed Lucic to an avg of 5.5 instead of 6, Krejci to 6.5 instead of 7, Rask to 6.5 instead of 7, and even a guy like Chris Kelly to an average of 2.5 instead of 3. Anyway, bad managing and good negotiating by their agents in my opinion.
fair enough
I would argue Toews is better than Kopitar. It can be argued one of if not the best player in the game. That toews can carry a team on his back and bring them to victory where Kopitar still needs help as evidenced by the Kings missing the playoffs last year.
It’s a sound argument Lyle. Perhaps you are right. Toews isn’t worth 10 million either. But he is getting it so like I agreed in my original post. Someone will offer Kopitar the 10 million so perhaps that is his value. What one offers not what I perceive.
Actually, as the Toews and Kane contracts kicked in this season, it’ll be interesting to see how the Hawks handle the rest of the roster, in the coming years. Will the dynamic duo lead them to another Stanley Cup, or will the weight of their contracts lead to a watering down of the Hawks’ lineup, to a point where they just aren’t good enough to get it done, even one more time?
Toews and Kane will lead Chicago to another cup if players like Teravainen, Panarin and young D-man Van Riemsdyk develop enough within the next few years to handle playing and reacting responsibly in high-pressure playoff situations.
Exactly Lyle!
The only difference between Kopitar and Toews is that Kopitar is physically stronger and not Canadian.
Curious to their advanced stats, as i don’t know much about that kinda stuff.
would like to see a knowledgeable breakdown.
I don’t know not sure just how much difference there is between he and Toews..both are defensive stalwarts and truthfully offensive numbers are about 10 points apart every year? I think 500K less than Toews is about right and I would take him in a heartbeat in Toronto…
Should add..not saying they are the same player but maybe a Kopitar playing with Kane puts up a few more points too..wonder how many Leaf fans might prefer Kopitar over Stamkos?
I think Kopitar is as almost as good as Jonathan Toews. The only thing I consider Toews better at is in the leadership area (maybe on the international scene as well), but that’s it. Toews makes $10.5 mil, Kopitat should get $ 10 mil.
In addition to what Spector and others have said I point out that the Kings have been a low scoring defensive team for several years now. So 70 in LA is closer to 100 elsewhere.
Beyond that he makes players around him by taking the heat. Jeff Carter has been great in LA but ask Columbus fans about his performance as a first line center.
I think paying a guy like Kopitar 10 mil would be a mistake and I think if he wants that, the team should look at trading him. He’s already won the cup so I think he’s just chasing his pay day. As a player, you’d have to either think of yourself and want the most money possible or think about being on a team that can be competitive. Hawks are a perfect example of this, with the new contacts of Kane and Toews the team had to get rid of a lot of their key players and they don’t nearly as good. I think the most a team should be paying a guy is 8-9 and that’s for top players in the league. If you’re going to pay a player 10 mil, you’d better have a few rookies in the system that can jump into big spots on the roster and produce on ELCs.
Ovechkin contract was actually even more expensive (% of cap) at the time of his signing. Top players salaries have risen to Toews/Kane levels with current cap level. That’s just the nature of it. To say that top salaries should be just 8-9 million dollars is not realistic at current cap levels. The top guys are the ones that put people in the seats, sell advertisements, sell merchandise and contributes most towards success on the ice to the club. Actual dollar value is more than they sign for. While top players can’t be signed for their true dollar value, their high cap means the rest of the cast will have salaries that fall in line. There’s articles out there about secondary players have taken quite a hard hit salary wise despite the game is now much about scoring by committee. Basically good nhl teams are now consisting of awesome core of top players, then the rest of the team is filled out by cheap complementary nhlers and rookies. By saying “If you’re going to pay a player 10 mil, you’d better have a few rookies in the system that can jump into big spots on the roster and produce on ELCs.” you basically answered your issues yourself.
Not only that Lyle but you could have also included the 60 point Patrick Kane making 10.25.
Toews is the only comparable for Kopitar.
Patrice Bergeron is a comparable, stats would show that hes not quite as offensive, but is arguably just as valuable a player to his team as Toews or Kopitar, and his average salary is 6.9 million.
That was the first player that came to my mibnd aswell (great bargin for 7 mill) second would be Datsyuk
Except Datsyuk, with his smallish size and fear-nothing approach to the game spends a lot of time on the IR. Not counting the lock-out shortened season he hasn’t played close to a full schedule since 2009-10 and over the past two seasons has missed 34% of Detroit’s games. He hasn’t played yet this year. Man, imagine what that guy would have been like as a 6″ 4″ 210 lb F!!
Absolutely, Datsyuk is also a great comparison, although older, and he’s on the books for 7.5 million.
Ya youre right about that it comes with age my point was more or less that it could be looked at as there is more tuan 1 comparable to Kopitar than Towes.
I would also place a healthy David Krejci in the same category as Kopitar, as witnessed by his performance this season. Also, if I’m not mistaken, Krejci was the Bruins’ top point producer, when they won it all, a few back.
I said it at the time, but handing out those contracts to Kane and Toews will come back to haunt them. Between the two, they gobble up about 30% of total cap, not wise business moves. I think we’ve seen the last of the stanley cups with this core group. Toews might “take one for the team”, but not where salary is concerned!
Yeah, I was actually surprised at the time of their signings that Toews/Kane didn’t concede to cheaper contracts (home town discounts) as Chicago still had an excellent roster back then. If they did that, Chicago could have kept some of their better players that now are gone. Going forward I believe the fact that they will have a weaker defense will be just as instrumental in hampering team success while current goalies won’t be able to bridge the gap. They have ridden that super cheap Keith contract as far as they could, now a lot of issues arise with Crawfords expensive contract + new contracts for Toews/Kane, plus Hossa getting towards his latter career stage.
Not sure why people post their opinions for or against a player’s salary. There are surely well established factors that determine these things, accepted by team management, agents and players. That’s all that counts.
There may be exceptions, such as a player not wanting to stay in or leave a location.
Spector is correct: whether Toews deserves 10 million or not, Kopitar is a comparable. Given that the Kings have given up first round picks lately, have no one in the system that could come close to replacing Kopitar, and trading for stud centers are like finding unicorns it is pretty simple:
The Kings pay, or Kopitar moves on.
it’s our futile attempts or complaints to try to keep our teams dumb managers from dishing out enough money to feed a nation to david clarkson over 8 years, while at the same time handy capping the team for the same term
LJ I have the right like anyone else to state my perceived value of a player. If for nothing else but to generate hockey talk.
I agree with Lyle’s take in comparing Kopitar to Toews. I simply think Toews is much better. I am not taking anything away from my opinion of Kopitar by stating that.
I also agree Kopitar’s value is likely tied to Toews but that does not change what I perceive his value should be. Sometimes in life I have to pay a price for something like a Can of coke where I don’t actually think the price of the item is worth the item. It is something set I have to pay. A can of pop is kinda worthless to me but I pay the buck and a half for it. Any ways perhaps that is a bad analogy
Yet When Spector Mentioned Toews it didn’t make me think Kopitar should get what Toews is making. As the more I think on it the more I can agree with the comparison. However it makes me think Toews is over paid.
How about Polak & Holland to Chicago for Bickell and Chicago’s 2nd & 3rd round picks.
Chicago gets the depth defenseman that they’re looking for and a 4th line center on what is a championship team. Chicago also gets some cap relief.
Toronto gets an overpaid but serviceable 3rd line winger that has some much needed sandpaper to his game. Toronto also moves Holland who seems to have fallen out of flavor in Toronto. Toronto gets draft picks for taking Bickels salary on.
Flyers have Chicago’s 2nd round pick from the Kimmo Timonen trade last season.
With Clune signing not sure there is a need for Bickle and his contract…take a 4th straight up for Polak and be happy with the open roster spot and savings on the cap….not necessarily from the Hawks but taking on a contract like Bickles would involve more than a second or 3rd round pick imo.
i watched a couple shifts of clune play (not bad)
I heard he has helped the marlies feel less intimidated and he has points also.
i also watched his signing interview today and he looks and speaks kinda funny.he also checks and fights. hes from toronto.
I like him already.
Except for where he was born you could be talking about Colton Orr.
whats wrong with orr?
please dont say it’s the wrong orr!
cuz ill say pat quinn fixed his arse
doesn;t anyone like fighting in hockey anymore? geez
Have you ever noticed that a good % of the so-called “fights” are staged – e.g. Neil’s the other day when he had a goal and an assist and went out looking for the Gordie Howe hat-trick by openly asking the other team’s goon to mix it up.
Another healthy % is started by players on teams that are getting their ass waxed and are “designed” to get their side “fired up.”
And most, when they start, turn out to be time-wasting “waltz-me-around-again-Matilda” bore-fests which end up with both going off for 5 minutes while teammates slap their sticks against the boards and a few thousand idiots go wild in the stands and then it’s finally on with the game.
There is no more violent sport on the planet than football and a fight winds up with both parties booted from the game. It hasn’t hurt that game one iota.
What players r worth in a cap world is one thing. What they generate in rebenues us another thing. IMO 10m contracts r highly stupid given the effect on any teams cap hit. Toews has Kane n vice versa n a unique situation. Kopitar is a true 2-way power center but an 8-9m player. Goalies other than Price don’t deserve Rask type contracts. Shear stupidity. Its very rare a Price or Hasek comes around n too many GM’s give out the silly money n term for goalies. 7-8yr big money should go to the few n too many r given out like candy for all positions.
“What players r worth in a cap world is one thing. What they generate in rebenues us another thing.” Correct. Actual dollar value is higher but can’t really sign such a contract under a salary cap.
“too many GM’s give out the silly money n term for goalies. 7-8yr big money should go to the few n too many r given out like candy for all positions.” I believe so too. I didn’t like the contracts that was handed out to Bobrovsky ($7.425M), Ward ($6.3M), Crawford ($6M), Miller ($6M), Lehtonen ($5.9M), Varlamov ($5.9), Howard ($5.3M)… Shorter contracts for the money are ok, but term also? Just no.