Latest on Steven Stamkos, Dustin Byfuglien, Andrew Ladd and Tyson Barrie in your NHL Rumor Mill.
Pundits speculate over Stamkos’ potential free-agent destinations.
Speculation persists over the future of Lightning captain Steven Stamkos
TODAY’S SLAPSHOT: Appearing on TSN 1050 yesterday, Bob McKenzie speculated on possible destinations for Tampa Bay Lightning center Steven Stamkos via free agency next summer other than the Toronto Maple Leafs. He suggested the Montreal Canadiens and Nashville Predators as potential options. McKenzie notes Stamkos knew Habs defenseman P.K. Subban growing up in Toronto and thinks he could be the missing piece that puts the Canadiens over the top as a Stanley Cup contender. He also points out the Predators have solid goaltendingand blueline depth, plus winger James Neal is Stamkos’ friend. McKenzie believes Stamkos’ priority is to win a Stanley Cup.
Appearing on TSN 690, Pierre LeBrun wondered if the Detroit Red Wings could make Stamkos a big offer via free agency. LeBrun feels Stamkos probably hasn’t decided yet what his future will be after this season.
SI.COM: Allan Muir also suggests Montreal and Nashville as possible free-agent destinations for Stamkos, along with the St. Louis Blues. He observes the rebuilding Buffalo Sabres have the money to make the Lightning captain an interesting offer.
SPORTSNET: Elliotte Friedman didn’t get into the “where could Stamkos sign this summer” guessing game, but mused over the possibility of Stamkos accepting a move to the Canadiens near the Feb. 29 trade deadline. Ultimately, however, Friedman doubts Lightning GM Steve Yzerman would ship his captain to a potential playoff opponent.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: If Stamkos and the Lightning decide to part ways, he will be the biggest star in the salary-cap era to become available via free agency. While he certainly wants to win a Stanley Cup, he also wants to be well compensated. Forget about the Canadiens and Blues, they lack the cap space to sign Stamkos
. The Predators have to re-sign rising stars Filip Forsberg and Seth Jones, plus they’re also carrying Shea Weber’s heavy contract. Unless they trade away Weber without taking on much salary in return, I doubt they’ll pursue Stamkos via free agency. The Wings could make a big offer, but with Dylan Larkin looking like a rising star, they could continue building around their youth.
That leaves the Sabres and Maple Leafs as the two clubs I think can comfortably afford to sign Stamkos. But if his priority is to play for a Cup contender, they’re not a certainty.
Should the Jets part ways with Byfuglien and Ladd?
WINNIPEG SUN/WINNIPEG FREE PRESS: In the wake of yesterday’s report regarding the cost of re-signing pending UFAs Dustin Byfuglien (over $6.8 million annually) and Andrew Ladd (over $6 million), the Sun’s Paul Friesen notes the pair will take up considerable cap space, giving the Jets little wiggle room to re-sign RFAs Jacob Trouba and Mark Scheifele. The Free Press’ Paul Wiecek suggests it could be time for the Jets to part ways with the duo.
SPORTSNET: Elliotte Friedman also weighed in on the cost of re-signing Byfuglien, Ladd and Trouba (a combined $152 million, according to a report in the Free Press). He reports it’s believed the Jets want to re-sign Trouba long-term. If they want six-seven years, Friedman guesses it could be between $6-$6.5 million annually, though the Jets hoped for $5.5 million. He claims latest word on Ladd is he and the Jets have apparently agreed upon a six-year term, but still have to hash out the dollars. It sounds like they’re between $500k-$1 million annually apart, which suggests a deal could be made. Friedman claims there’s little progress regarding a new deal for Byfuglien. It’s rumored the Jets don’t want to go longer than a three-year deal.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: The Jets will re-sign Trouba, who’s coming off an entry-level deal and lacks arbitration rights. If they go long term, my guess is a six-seven year deal worth as close to $5.5 million as possible. While I initially though they could push for $4 million, there’s the risk of a rival club swooping in with an offer sheet for much more. I think they’re also committed to retaining Ladd for his experience, leadership and the depth he brings at left wing. If so, they’ll likely part ways with Byfuglien, who would be the best defenseman available next summer and thus likely to land a more lucrative deal.
Barrie to the Canucks?
SPORTSNET: Elliotte Friedman also engaged in some spitballing on the future of Colorado Avalanche defenseman Tyson Barrie. If the Avs are unable to re-sign Barrie, Friedman wonders if the Vancouver Canucks could make a play for the blueliner. He wonders if the Canucks would part with promising forward Jake Virtanen and either Ben Hutton or Yannick Weber.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Remember, Friedman’s just musing out loud here, not saying this is going to happen. I think the Avs, who need all the blueline depth they can get, will re-sign Barrie. I also don’t see the Canucks parting with Virtanen or any of their key youngsters.
Took in the Stamkos game live yesterday – first time I’ve seen him play since last year and I had to consciously make an effort to keep my eyes on him. He was just that anonymous…
If that was an audition, it did not go well. If this player is worth $10m x 7, I’m not buying. Even the rumoured Kopitar deal at $9m, I don’t think makes sense unless he can turn his season around.
10 game scoreless streak on pace for around 30 goals not in the top 10 for scoring exactly 4 points more than Bozak so far this year 7 goals 18 points in 25 playoff games last year… 10 million dollars ? No thanks Ill pass
And schooled in the faceoff dot…just for bonus points!
One of the TO talk shows mentioned this yesterday. Stamkos production has been down since he broke his leg-is that impacting his performance-and is he damaged goods?
I agree. Went to see Tampa at LA about two weeks ago. Almost forgot Stamkos was even on the Lightning.
Dont get me wrong I trust Bob but…
Plekanec 5
Subban 9
Pacioretty 4.5
Petry 5.5
Markov 5.75
Price 6.5
I’m seeing a whole lot of reasons why a 10 million dollar contract is not exactly a fit in Montreal.
Aside from Markov who comes off the books ater next year many of these contracts are not short deals.
Pacioretty is the lowest paid on your list. Wow Montreal got a deal there. Has to be one of the best bargains in the NHL.
For sure
plekanac doesn’t have a ntc he would be fairly easy to underrated 2 way centerman and if they could move emelin what isn’t looking for dmen right now lol that’s enough room right there to afford stamkos he is good friends with subban so ya never know? I just hope he doesn’t end up here in Toronto just stick to the rebuild!
So, let’s see – they could easily move Plekanec and Emelin to make room for Stamkos. All Plekanec has been is regularly one of their top points producers for the past for the past 9 seasons. Sure, as C he’d be easy to move – but what you wind up with is the difference Stamkos would bring to the position in points. And by including Emelin in the “clear-out” phase you are dumping probably THE most difficult position to develop other than goaltending – a 6′ 2″ 215 lb D who you have just spent 4 years developing – to be replaced with what?
Not to mention the contracts of Price, Eller (3.5) and Emelin (4.1) expire after the 2017-18 season and Galchenyuk’s (2.8) after next season.
Yep the Habs would need to do quite a bit of shuffling…I mentioned the other day the Preds could make some sense. Much easier there, move maybe 1 player dont resign Ribero and Bobs your uncle.
lol shticky it wouldn’t take as much as you think for the habs to afford him the cap is estimated to go to 74mil next year
That’s optimism running wild on someone’s part with the Loonie projected to dip even lower thanks to the U.S. just raising the interest rate! The cap is not going anywhere near $74 mil in the foreseeable future. And exactly how could the Habs afford a $9 to $10 mil long-term deal without gutting the core of their team?
lol after the gm meeting bettman said it will be around 74 million. plekanac and emelin would do it?
George do you really think lebrun,Mackenzie and friedman would all talk about the habs getting stamkos if it was that hard? or do you know more than them? lol
Jeexus before you drone on and on about how becsuse Bob said so, go read the article, Bob says he only used Mtl and Nashville to illustrate the point that Toronto ismt the only option. He slso goes on to say he wasnt tsking the csp in to consideration and then goes even further to memtion is Samkos a fot in montreal ? ya sure, is tjete csp implications with it yes probably…George and I are saying the same thing
After the GM meetings last year they also projected the cap to be higher then it ended up being at the start of this year.
And read Bobs article today on tsn…says 3 times that he was only using Montreal to illustrate a point that there is more than Toronto out there and there would be cap implications.
plekanac and emelin would do it and said early plekanac wouldn’t be hard to move and I would think emelin could go! Nashville has a self imposed cap so who are they gonna move?
When Montreal gets Stamkos I’ll be adding pigs to the targets from my duck blind.
I am not sure that he understamds that within 2 years of Stamkos was to go to montreal that the Habs will likely be looking at paying Price nearly 9 or 10 mill aswell and Gally will be over 5 if not 6 mill ….nvm trying to fill holes that result from signing him in the first place it would be 4 players making close to half the cap…moving Plekanc and Emelin is not a guarantee and if it was still likely not enough.
Big Buff’s dreaming. He will be 31 when his next contract starts and if he gets 8 years, he’ll be … well, you can do the math. I heard the Jets were thinking 3 years but I could see him getting a 4 year deal from someone. Then again, the pressure to win a cup could be so great that a GM offers him 8 years thinking if we win the cup I’ll be able to withstand the flak over the contract and if we don’t win the cup I’ll be fired long before his advanced years and salary become a millstone.
LOL. You sum that up pretty well. You have to think that that is the mindset of a lot of GMs based upon some of the signings over the past few years.
I would never sign Byfuglien for more than 4 years.
I would never sign Ladd for more than $4.5-5M AAV on a longer contract.
I would not sign Stamkos for anything over $9M AAV.
I could probably not get any of those players signed, hehe… Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don’t make…
I agree with everything but the Ladd deal. He makes 4.4 now and is up for a raise
Stamkos could have just said last night that he was happy in Tampa and hopes they work something out and that would have put an end to this none sense. But after watching him speak in the interview floating around my money is on him leaving Tampa. I would honestly put Tampa at the bottom of the pile of teams he might actually play for next season.
Big Buff is doing what anyone would do in a negotiation, start high and settle somewhere in the middle, problem is I don’t think the jets are that keen to keep him and if they have to give Trouba that kind of money he is a goner.
I dont think they can let Ladd go, when they first got the team Ladd was the first one there and backing the move. His character is worth his asking price and he produces. This is the guy I would want my younger players learning from.
He said in the interviews that he had a good situation “down there in Tampa”. Did you really watch the whole thing?
I’ll give you that his comments were more leaning towards “time on his side”. If he is serious about going UFA, he has the perfect scenario of no trade and playing for a good team while marching towards UFA status. He’d want to keep that status quo going if he hasn’t got any interest in resigning. That is what I got out of it.
I also like Ladd, but I hate his salary demands. Too many bad contracts signed by NHL GMs the last few years for players just turning 30; Thornton, Kesler, Bolland, Zajac, Brown, Pominville… Buyer BEWARE. I’d like him signed for an AAV of $4.5M if wanting a longer contract, NOT $6.5M like he wants.
Oh well Bob Mckenzie seems to feel the same way that its all but certain Stamkos is leaving Tampa, and I took his comment to be more along the lines of its a nice place to leave and that its not as bad there as one might think.
Yeah, read my second comment there. I misheard Stamkos comments. I’m more on your side – essentially that he probably goes the UFA route and sees what’s out there.
Well, maybe I spoke in haste. I heard Stamkos say “It’s not that bad down there” but it was apparently more commenting on the media situation in Tampa than his overall situation.
I can agree that Stamkos’ silence and unwilling to commit to Tampa and the void of any news of progress, probably points to him going to free agency rather than resign.
There’s talk of another dead puck era, and unless the cap starts climbing this could be the dead salary era. Team caps (self-imposed or otherwise) + players salaries seem to be reaching an equilibrium. How are all of these young guys going to get signed??
I don’t understand what you mean about problem to sign young players. GM have cost certainty the first rookie years and then has leverage in RFA status. With the hard cap, this is instrumental and a big reason why GMs have gone younger overall. There exists no problem signing young guys at all.
Also GMs sign the core first, so the impact players always get their money (though maybe GMs will be more careful of term going forward). After that, the rest of the secondary, tertiary players get caught in a salary squeeze. Depth players, at or over 30 y/o, could really cash in on their situation 10 years ago. Nowadays they’re caught in a cap squeeze where handed out contracts hover around $750k-2M and long term contracts are hard to get.
Trouba is an example of the potential difficulties signing young talent. He’s 21, an RFA, theoretically has no leverage, and seems to be able to command a contract of between 5.5-6.5 million, which everyone now seems to believe would be well deserved. Two years ago we would have been talking about low dollar a bridge deal for him. Teams having to commit big dollars to younger guys is the reason why GMs are going younger generally, not their so-called leverage over young players. This is the reason that the Nick Leddy trade happened (23 y/o RFA to be at the time, no cap space to re-sign him), or the difficulty in getting Brock Nelson signed (23 y/o who would not accept a bridge deal), Ryan Johansen’s re-signing in Columbus was protracted and resulted in the team having to pony up $6 million for the last year of his deal despite a $4 mil AAV, lots of people believed that P.K. Subban was going to leave Montreal after he wasn’t offered his current contract when his entry level deal expired, and there’s the whole saga with Ryan O’Reilly. Any young guy coming into the league may sign an entry level deal between 500-900K with some incentives, but guys that exhibit any promise on an entry level contract are now demanding compensation that eliminates the cost certainty GMs used to have with RFAs and that is exponentially larger than their first contracts. All this, and free agency is still a thing, so it’s not as if every team is made up of only a core of youngsters and only signs marginalized players, otherwise we wouldn’t be hearing about Stamkos signing as a FA for a $10 mil AAV. So, there is kind of a problem in signing young guys starting to sprout up. It’s not a huge issue now, but it’s also already started to change the ways in which teams setup their rosters.
Thanks for the reply, but no, Trouba is not an example of trouble signing youth. If anything, the Trouba contract speculation is more in line with what historically good RFAs could expect. For a shorter contract (more of a bridge type) estimates of $3.5-4M has been discussed. For a longer contract (7-8 years) where a GM is buying into years of player elected arbitration + UFA years at the tail end, estimates of $5-5.5M has been discussed in media. This is consistent with how good RFAs has been handled historically. The player elected arbitration years are important as both agent and GM projects the player to be in his prime by then which affects compensation during those years.
Compare Troubas situation to Subban. Montreal had the chance to sign him long term and get player elected arbitration years + few UFA years cheap, but elected for a bridge contract instead. Agents will always try to use Edmonton as an example and bypass the bridge contract, but clubs with sane economics, like Anaheim, Ottawa and such will pretty much always go the bridge route still. There was so much more to comment in your answer, maybe I can add something later.
So there was a whole lot going on in your reply. I don’t consider your examples being consistent enough to prove a point. To me, at least.
I dealt with Trouba. Regarding Leddy, the issue is not that the contract was outrageous or that the player happened to be young, the issue was that he happened to be established and considered a good player, coming off of his bridge contract. As the player was already proven and was seeking a longer term contract it created cap problems. You have the wrong focus regarding Leddy – it was merely a situation of having too many high priced talent with a raise coming up. That issue wasn’t focused around his particular age but is normal cap management. In essence, where to allocate the money under a hard cap.
The Brock Nelson situation I know nothing of.
Ryan Johansens contract was perfectly fine bridge contract. Very similar money that is being discussed for Trouba. Both agent and GM projected Johansens performance to be equivalent to $6M in the last year of contract and both signed off of it. GM probably suspected that any arbitrator would award at least $6M to Johansen if projected to go to arbitration in 2017. Good players cost, regardless of RFA, or age or not. And Johansen was projected at eventually being $6M good at age 25.
The speculation on the old PK Subban situation is pure speculation.
Ryan O’Reillys situation didn’t have to do with his age, but a difference opinion of his worth. To Avalanche, he wasn’t worth his asking price. After two shorter contracts, O’Reilly was seeking a longer term contract and for big money. Avalanche didn’t value him enough to give him both. In a cap world, with such set pieces, the best thing is to lift the status quo situation and commence a trade rather quickly. It has less to do with the threat of offer sheets or a players age or whatever and much to do with everyday cap management. What wasn’t perceived as value for Avalanche was perceived value by Tim Murray. Same player, different teams, different depth charts, different cap situations, different value assessments. That player could have been 32, with looming UFA status, and the same type of situation could arise because of the cap.
You read my first comment wrongly. I didn’t say a core of youngsters. I said GMs sign the core first. Any age applies. Period.
The trouble in agreeing to negotiate for a shorter bridge contract or for a longer contract has been going on for quite some time now. Agents and GMs don’t always agree. Many point to Edmonton as sabotaging the norm of lesser risk laden bridge contracts in favor of the riskier that buys into UFA years. For example Hall has an AAV of $6M, but at the same time did forgo 3 UFA years (if my calculations are right).
Lyle,
A question here, pardon my ignorance.
Some entry level players are given bonus structured contracts for performance. Are veteran or UFA players eligible for that kind of contract as well? Or does that circumvent the Cap? Or do the bonus dollars count towards the following years Cap ceiling.
Hi, Murph. A number of veteran players also have bonus-laden contracts. they’re not cap circumvention, as each team has a bonus cushion. However, if they exceed that cushion, they can be penalized for going too far over the cap.
Thanks Lyle,
I believe the bonus cushion is only in place on ELC’s & bonus contracts on players over 35 on 1 year deals. All other bonus monies count against the cap with no relief.
I don’t understand why the NJ Devils wouldn’t be considered a candidate to sign Stamkos this off season. They have the cap space, ownership has the money(they are about to buy an NFL Franchise), they have a top goaltender, a young and highly talented Defense corps, they have some talent at Forward with Henrique, Josefson, Zacha, Cammalleri, Blandisi, etc…. And they are a cusp Playoff team. The biggest need for them is scoring. It seems like a good fit to me.
Any club that signs any player to a long term $10Mil contract gets what they deserve. Not unless the player’s name is Gretzky, Lemeuix or Orr. Sabres won’t get into this mess, not with the young players they have coming up for raises in the coming years.
Realistically is ROR not one of those type deals? know his upcoming hit is only 7.75 mill but its all bonus money bbuy out lock out proof and makes 11 mill in his first season. Not sure I see much of a difference in a 64 million dollar contractand a 70 except the way they are loaded or structured lol
So you pay over 6 million for experience? No thanks
What I am getting at is there is very little difference between an ROR contract at 64 mill an aav of 7.75 and a 70 mill deal at an aav of 10 not commenting on if I would do it or not just saying they are practically the same thing its a 6 million dollars difference over 7 or 8 years which works out to be less than a mill per year.
How many superstars have passed on Toronto. I bought into the hype so often, that I’m not getting my hopes up this time around.
Stay the course!
Differnt for me this time….I hope he passes on it lol. I dont evencare if he goes somewhere else next year and puts up 50. Remember the Sundin years? 1 good center and not much else? Or kessel 1 good goal scorer and nothing else? 10 mill is too much and eventually will lead to the same..
here here fromthenorth!! stay the course is right wait until you are atleast playoff competitive to bring guys in
Stamkos is unlikely to stay in Tampa unless the number is close to his current one. There is no way to sign Hedman & an elite goalie, retain the triplets, and cover 10MM. And that assumes you can work through the 10MM for Flippula and Carle, and bring in youngsters who play as well and cost a lot less. If he is an ultimate elite player who can carry a team — perhaps someone can win with him. If he is an elite sniper its tougher at his supposed price. If he is an elite sniper who insists on playing center and gets his price its tough to see him getting a cup. As a Tampa fan who has seen all his games — its hard to say Kucherov hasn’t passed him as a scorer. He is a terrific player, either having a down year or suffering a slight falloff post injury, and hard to envision as “the franchise”. IF the Lightning turn it around we made ride out this year’s run, but I’m not expecting him back next year- tho I think that at a good price might be his happiest career move.
Late to the party again but I would use Alex Ovechkin as a prime example of an elite player who, not too long ago, was considered to be on his out of the league. Just look at him now.
Steven Stamkos has proven he has elite ability and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him pull an Ovechkin and return to superstar status. That may happen with a new team and a new environment but I definitely would not count him out just yet.
Not counting him out offensively but for the suggested price I would want more tan a little better than 48 % guy on draws who puts up 30 plus goal, is OK but not great defensively and is questionable when it comes to the playoffs. If he wasn’t from Toronto this would not be as big a deal as it is.
funny you sayin not great on defense when you always said kessel wasn’t overpaid! lol
Pay attention big bear I don’t think paying a guy who puts up 60 points in a bad year and 80 points on a typical year 8 mill is as overpaid as paying a guy 10 mill to do the same thing.
But stamkos does it and actually plays in his own zone! You say 10mill is to much for stamkos but 8 is fine for kessel? Your talking out of both sides of your mouth again! Lol
Last I looked a coach doesn’t move a center to wing because he is in love with his defensive game…directly the opposite really, and if you look at plus minus you would notice that for all those goals Stamkos scores he is a minus 2 for his career and has a negative goal differential. So for a guy who knows how to play in his own end he sure doesn’t do it very well or his coach may have more faith in him playing center and he would likely be on the ice for more goals for than against.
There are two Stevens on offence
With MSL and without MSL.
He doesn’t often create his own shot.
When he plays center he has to be the first guy back and concentrate on the D. Limits his ability to get back and get open for a pass — assuming there is someone who can get the puck and pass it to him.
Add the team’s structure is speed on the rush and speed on the forecheck, and he is sometimes a fish out of water.
He IS very talented. Better than average at everything. Elite at some things. But not, at this moment, Toews or Lemieux.
He is 26 and dedicated, so as goo as he is he probably still has upside. But a signing with a bad team (with cap space) on a five year plan make him 31 when that team gets good. If it can get good with a 10MM a year hit to start the cap consideration.
With all their injuries the Bolts are so tight against the cap right now they can’t even make another callup.
They will have to flush either Carle (unlikely, no takers) or Flipulla to sign him this year, with hell to pay next.
But a team that actually can sign him is doing more marketing than making a cup run. ps Toronto. Isn’t Babcock a defence first coach? I’ just saying
now shticky using plus minus!! lmao if it was kessel plus minus was a useless stat but for stamkos it says something!! lol
Just musing here…..Could TB not Sign Stamkos to 8 yrs $9mil
then trade him for a boatload BUT keep $1.5mil/yr on their books?
For a bit of cap space they could really replenish the loss.
Trading Stamkos, 26 yrs old @ $7.5mil for 8 yrs? would that not attract buyers?
full no movement clause-
would tie GM’s hands
But of course they would work with Stamkos to get a trade to a team of his choice. They can justify it to him that the team would lose some prospects yes BUT save cap $$ that can be used to get players now to win…