Updates on Steven Stamkos, P.K. Subban, Travis Hamonic and Kevin Shattenkirk in your NHL rumor mill.
Stamkos and Hamonic.
A new month brings another round of “Steven Stamkos to Toronto” rumors.
TSN.CA: Frank Seravalli believes the Toronto Maple Leafs winning the 2016 NHL Draft lottery and securing the first-overall pick won’t hurt their efforts to pursue Tampa Bay Lightning center Steven Stamkos if he becomes an unrestricted free agent in July. He expects the Leafs will make a big pitch for Stamkos. Seravalli also wonders if rival clubs, such as the Arizona Coyotes, will contact the Leafs to inquire into the asking price for that first-overall selection. He also expects the Edmonton Oilers will shop their first-round pick, which is fourth overall.
Seravalli wonders if that pick might be enough for the Oilers to tempt the New York Islanders into parting with blueliner Travis Hamonic, and suggests Anaheim Ducks blueliner Sami Vatanen could also be an option.
Bob McKenzie (via TODAY’S SLAPSHOT) also believes the Leafs will “take a hard run” at landing Steven Stamkos via free agency this summer. Whether they get him, however, is anyone’s guess. He also doubts Stamkos can scarcely contain himself waiting for July 1 to sign with his hometown club.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Stamkos to the Leafs is the dream that doesn’t die for a lot of folks in Leafs Nation. Maybe it could happen, though I believe Stamkos’ preference if he hits the open market is to sign with a Cup contender or a club on the verge of becoming one, rather than one in the midst of a significant rebuild. I also think it would be a mistake by Leafs management to blow over $10 million per season on one player for eight years. Better to draft and groom your own stars and surround them with more affordable veterans of skill and character to help their development (something the Edmonton Oilers failed to do before hiring Peter Chiarelli as GM) than to blow your brains out via free agency.
I like what the Leafs are doing so far. They’ve got a lot of promising youth on the roster and in the pipeline. They’ll probably draft center Auston Matthews in the draft and could end up signing Jimmy Vesey in August. Don’t deviate from the patient rebuild by chasing an expensive talent who could be on the downside of his career when the roster is finally ready to become a contender. His fat contract could also make it difficult to re-sign those kids to lucrative deals if they develop as expected. As for teams calling the Leafs about the first-overall pick, they might listen but I don’t believe for a minute they’ll trade it. They simply won’t get the kind of offer that’ll convince them to part with it.
Regarding Travis Hamonic and the Oilers, Isles GM Garth Snow was adamant he wants a comparable defenseman in return. As long as he sticks with that asking price, that fourth-overall pick won’t interest him. The Isles want a return that helps them now and in the near future. They might have better luck acquiring Vatanen.
Subban.
MONTREAL GAZETTE: cites an inteview by Presse Canadienne with Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin in which he once again denies shopping defenseman P.K. Subban or any of his other top players. The Subban trade rumors flared to life again following the recent NHL Draft lottery tying him to the Edmonton Oilers, who hold the fourth overall pick. Bergevin admitted if a rival GM wants to call him to inquire about one of his players, he’ll listen, but he’s not soliciting offers. “I do not listen to gossip. We talked about the P.K. situation at the team’s post-mortem. This is not a player I’m in a position to trade. Nothing has changed since April 11, Bergevin said.”
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Because Bergevin won’t come right out and say he’s never trading Subban or called him an untouchable, there will be rumormongers who’ll parse his remarks to suggest there is, in fact, a chance Subban could be traded. Sure, it’s possible he could be traded this summer, but like most observers, I don’t believe it will happen. One of my readers claimed I’m against a Subban trade because I’m biased toward him. That’s nonsense. My skepticism is based on common sense. Trading him for a top-line scorer addresses one problem and creates another, blowing a huge hole in the Habs blueline that will be impossible to suitably address via trade or free agency.
The only way I see this working is if the Habs get a return for Subban that brings in a top scorer and a No.1 defenseman. So unless Bergevin can acquire Anze Kopitar and Drew Doughty from the LA Kings (and we all know that won’t happen), I don’t see how a rumored deal of Subban to the Oilers for Taylor Hall and Oscar Klefbom helps the Habs.
Shattenkirk.
CSNNE.COM: Joe Haggerty recently cites “an industry source” claiming the Boston Bruins are well-positioned to take a run at St. Louis Blues defenseman Kevin Shattenkirk this summer because of his desire to be moved to an Eastern Conference team if or when he’s dealt this summer. Haggerty wonders if a package of “Zach Trotman, Ryan Spooner and a conditional first/second round pick based on whether Shattenkirk ends up signing a contract extension to stick around Boston beyond next season” might tempt the Blues. Shattenkirk has a year remaining on a his contract worth $4.25 million and lacks a no-trade clause. Haggerty notes the Blues could be forced to trade him as they probably cannot afford to re-sign him next summer, when he’ll be eligible for unrestricted free agency.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: It’s expected the Blues will shop Shattenkirk this summer. The Bruins will certainly try to acquire him, but Shattenkirk will attract plenty of interest around the league. GM Doug Armstrong will do what’s best for his team. I expect there will be clubs well-positioned to make significant offers (hello there, Edmonton Oilers) and outbid the Bruins.
Having a $10 mil Stamkos on your payroll will lead to exactly the same position Yzerman finds himself in now (at considerably less than $10 mil i might add), and that is, finding it difficult to squeeze all his other young players in as they reach RFA/UFA status.
The difference with Yzermann is that his core is now getting close to UFA status so they’re not as cost controlled.
In the Leafs’ case Matthews, Marner, and Nylander are cost controlled for at least another 7-8 years. Reilly and Kadri just signed sweetheart deals. The Leafs have no bad contracts left that last beyond 2 seasons and they are flush with AHL prospects, junior prospects and draft picks over the next few years, to continuously re-stock their secondary talent shelves with quality cost controlled assets.
Stamkos therefore is easy to accommodate.
You DID notice that I did NOT mention the Leafs specifically?? Other teams who might be enticed do have potential RFA/UFA signees coming up sooner rather than later.
I think MST and George both make valid points: the Leafs can sign Stamkos and that will create issues down the line when the young studs come off their ELCs, for example, instead of re-signing the long term keepers to long term deals, the Leafs may have to bridge them and so on.
I’m against the Leafs signing Stamkos. These are my projected lines a few years out, once the spare parts are gone:
JVR / Matthews / Marner
Shoshnikov / Nylander / Hyman
Johnson or Leipsic / Kadri / Brown
Lindberg or Leivo / Froese / Kapanen
Timashov (LW), Vesey?
lupul + bozak is 10 mil.
leafs still have 30 mil also
jvr stamkos kadri
nyl matthews marner
makes sense to me. plus look at the line changes u can make,
jvr stamkos matthew…
I disagree with your assessment of Stamkos, the leafs need him more than ever to help mentor and shelter Matthews as he develops. Stamkos is only 26 not exactly in his twilight. And the leafs have all their other young stars under cost control for at least the next 7 years, so Stamkos’ cap hit is easily manageable. All the cap space saved from the Kessel, Phaneuf and Clarkson deals is worthless if they don’t use it. And no UFA out there is as talented OR as young as Stamkos.
As for the Oilers trading their 4th overall for a top tier defensemen, they have Skera with an NMC that has to be protected in the expansion draft, and obviously they’d want to protect whomever they added. That leaves one defensemen protection slot available to protect one of: Nurse, Klefbom and Reinhart. Whoever they add has to more than compensate for what they will loose both in the trade to add him, and in the resulting loss of a decent young defensive prospect. I don’t see a trade of that magnitude out there. Certainly Hamonic isn’t worth it.
The Oilers are better off being patient a little, drafting Chychrun, watching their own young defence get better and waiting until after the expansion draft to make the big splashy trade.
Nurse is exempt from the expansion draft.
At this point Reinhart looks to be a bust. To young to right off but drafted 4 years ago & hasn’t shown he’s even remotely ready for the pace of the NHL, never mind the AHL.
Paying the 16th & 33rd overall picks in last seasons draft for a player Edmonton can’t justify protecting in expansion was a major mistake by Chiarelli.
That said if Edm moves a forward; Eberle, RNH or Yakupov, or 2 out to acquire a true #2 Dman or other trade to get Yakupov a fresh start they might just protect 8 skaters instead on 7F & 3 D.
What makes a player expansion draft exempt again?
Less than 2 years of contractual service either in the NHL or AHL. Example. Nurse will complete his 2nd year next year there by being exempt.
Thanks Striker. So that would make Nurse the only exempt d-man on the Oilers. The most likely protected d-men on the Oilers would be Sekera, Klefbom, and Davidson.
Potentially. Lots of time between now & when the expansion draft happens. I assume expansion will take place in the summer following next season & it would need to happen prior to the draft. That puts it about 13 months away. Allot can happen between now & then.
Should Edm make a trade for a solid #2 D, future #1 like Jones moving to Columbus, Davidsson could be included in such a deal. something like Eberle & Davidsson for Hamonic & ? Not saying that deal is happening just an example.
You don’t pay someone 10 Million dollars a year to mentor.
you do if your the leafs
Enough of this Hamonic already,if the guy did not ask for a trade you would not even talk about him,and the stupid trade sugestions.He is a third pairing d man and thats all.
A 3rd pairing d man that averaged over 23 minutes a game during the season, and 27+ now in the playoffs? Do u watch hockey?
The comment made was not that it would be a good idea to get Stamkos to help with the rebuild, but that Stamkos wouldn’t be interested in joining a team in rebuild. Only problem is that teams on the edge of success won’t be able to afford him and teams that can afford him, won’t be making a run anytime soon… He may have to choose between money and winning.
IMO, THE BRUINS need more help on the left side than the right. Shattenkirk would be a great addition however I don’t think he could make up/ cover up a slowing Chara. Would rather go after a 1st pairing LD first.
Lyle, I got to ask; just to clarify in your opinion do you think Subban is equal or better value then Hall and Klefbom together? and to mention Kopitar and Doughty in the same sentence for Subban? I wouldn’t trade Doughty straight up for Subban if I’m LA.
I made my views quite clear and in plain English, Caper. Not my fault if you can’t grasp it.
Ouch!
LOL, “I can explain it to you. I can’t understand it for you kind of thing.” haha. Harsh.
Little ignorant today are we Lyle! So let me say this you are blinded by your prejudice if you think PK is any where near the value of Hall and Klefbom together. Kopitar and Doughty, get real.
I can only assume Lyle’s having a bad day. A little hars. Not the way to treat your customers ideally. That said we all have bad days. Maybe he’s not happy with how the lottery went for MTl!
I’m not moving Doughty for Subban either. No 1 is. Nor am I moving Hall & Klefbom for Subban at least not straight up.
I’m with Lyle though. Mtl isn’t moving Subban. Makes no sense. As I have always stated & stand bye the only way I move a #1 D is if I have no choice; refuses to resign, the offer is so lopsided in my favor I can’t say no or they are approaching the end of the line & I have someone to replace them already in the system.
If someone makes a baseless accusation of bias against me, they shouldn’t expect to be treated with kid gloves. Quite frankly, my response was mild. When I’m having a bad day, believe me, you’ll know it!
BTW, no one here is a “customer”. I’m not charging anyone to follow this site. You’re getting these links and my opinions about them for free. I don’t mind folks disagreeing with me, hell, I expect it. That’s why there’s a comments section. But if someone makes a baseless accusation of bias simply because my views differ from theirs, they shouldn’t sulk if I call them out about it or fire back.
If that’s what you took away from that, Caper, go with god. I made my point very clearly.
Made me laugh.
Did I miss something in this question?
“Lyle, I got to ask; just to clarify in your opinion do you think Subban is equal or better value then Hall and Klefbom together? and to mention Kopitar and Doughty in the same sentence for Subban? I wouldn’t trade Doughty straight up for Subban if I’m LA.”
Was there a baseless accusation in here that I missed?
I get the Kopitar, Doughty reference, it was an extreme example of an offer being so good you just couldn’t refuse but all I see in the above is a question about Hall & Klefbom in comparison to Subban.
Granted you don’t charge but hits are money to some extent. I try to hit at least a few advertisements to help out & then there are the indirect benefits associated with the name you have created for yourself from this site in expanding your presence as a blogger & potential journalist.
Obviously there must be some bad blood here that I’m not aware of as your response wasn’t warranted to Caper’s original comment but it’s your site so your free to do as you choose but Caper’s Hall & Klefbom question for Subban was open ended.
I don’t like such conversations either as I see them as a waste of time. Teams almost never trade #1 Dman. I have raised the question several times now if people can think of any. It’s incredibly rare if it ever actually happens & you have to go back a long way to even find a possible trade where 1 moved never mind for mitigating circumstances. Teams just don’t willing move #1 Dman unless they have ZERO choice.
Lyle was accused previously, like yesterday I think of having a biased opinion in regards to Montreal and PK’s value. It has continued to today as Lyle brought it up in his comments and Caper asked for clarification looking to push the biased argument.
Got yeah. I assumed there had to be an underlying issue. Some what out of character with Lyle. He rarely references Montreal being his favorite team any longer & I assume we all have some form of bias to our favorite team. I never perceived Lyle having an serious bias & if I didn’t like his style of writing or value his opinions I wouldn’t have been reading his site for what seems like forever.
I don`t always agree & have taken him to task numerous times both here & in private but I respect him, his opinions & his deductive reasoning skills.
Lyle, that’s the point you didn’t make your point clear at all; otherwise i wouldn’t ask the question and yet when directly asked, you chose sarcasm, and yes i can handle it. Curious why you won’t just say “Yes i think PK is equal value of Hall and Klefbom” or “NO, I’m saying a team must over pay to get Subban.” like a politician sitting on the fence unwilling to commit to his believe.
Lyle on the positive side, i do enjoy you site and comments but don’t always agree as with your assessment of Subban.
1. I made my point VERY clear. As I’ve repeatedly said on this topic, trading Subban for a scoring forward addresses one problem and creates another, that it would blow a huge hole in their blueline that could take years to suitably replace. I said the same thing when a recent trade speculation by a Montreal pundit suggested Subban for Hall and Klefbom. Again, it addresses their scoring but does nothing to replace the void on defense. THAT is the central issue. Not “Do you think Subban is worth player a and player b?” I wasn’t bringing up Kopitar and Doughty for Subban as a serious trade suggestion. Only a fool would believe I was. It was to emphasize the fact trading Subban for a scorer and a second-pairing defenseman (which, at this stage in Klefbom’s career, is what he could be considered) doesn’t address the huge hole Subban’s departure leaves on the blueline.
2. On several occasions, Caper, you’ve made baseless accusations claiming I was biased toward Subban. I don’t see where anyone can get that notion from stating the obvious fact that trading Subban for a scoring addresses one problem and creates another. Sensible folks would look at that and say, “Well, that’s common sense”. For some unfathomable reason, Caper, you consider it to be otherwise. On April 27, Feb 21 and Feb 16, whenever I addressed Subban trade rumors, your response was that I was biased toward Subban, influenced by his “carisma” and that I was having “quite the love fest” for him. Had you merely disagreed with my take, there wouldn’t be an issue. I’ve tried to slough off your accusations and even attempted to explain myself. But in your mind, I’m biased toward Subban and nothing I say will change that. THAT’S why you got the response you did earlier today. I simply got tired of trying to have a rational discussion with you on the subject, since you obviously had no interest in doing so.
3.Finally, I’ll be clear about Subban. Yes, I’m a fan of his, but if Montreal could get a return that made them a better team by trading him, I’d have no problem with it. However, I don’t see how that’s possible if all they’re doing is addressing one weakness by creating another. So unless Bergevin can bring in a top-line forward and a No. 1 defenseman for Subban (impossible), or he adds Subban’s replacement in a separate move via trade or free agency (good luck with that), it makes no sense to trade him. That’s common sense. Not bias, not prejudice and no “love fest”. Simple common sense.
That would be similar to someone saying I’m biased towards Karlsson if it was being bandied about that Ottawa might deal him away and I responded with “how does that improve the Sens?”
This will be my last comment in regards to you opinion of what you call “common sense” and i say you have a bias. When Subban name first pop up, people were throwing different scenario’s around and one reader said i wonder what Boston has that Montreal would want for Subban and you replied “Nothing” which in itself was funny, until i started looking at some of the other thoughts which you did not comment on, but for what ever reason you chose that one. You didn’t say none of these deals make sense, not happening he’s never getting moved and certainly not to a division foe. That’s when i started to watch your comments when it came to Subban and im only talking PK not the Canadians for instance Hall and Klefbom not being able to handle the pressure of playing in Montreal. There is a pattern in your comments when it pertains to PK, when other outlandish comments are made you don’t comment but when it come to Subban and your monologue is toned different. This is why I challenge you on PK because there is a trend in your comments that support my theory. But no hard feelings, we are both entitle to our opinion.
So, because I don’t believe there’s anything the Bruins can offer up to the Canadiens for Subban (apart from the most obvious fact those two clubs won’t directly deal with each other in a trade involving a player the caliber of Subban), that’s somehow indicative of “bias”. That there’s a “pattern” in my comments suggesting bias??
*facepalm*
Yeah, there’s a pattern all right, and it’s called “trading your top defenseman for a scoring forward addresses one problem and creates another.” The bias is all in your head.
Caper, i think what Lyle means is that even when he suggests an example/opinion as the webhost, people nit pick it. SO he in return spends an hour or more, typing it all out so people understand that it is just an example…Yet the same people keep asking/nitpicking even after he tried to explain it over & over. Hence his reply that you should read again basically.
Its my pet peeve with typing also.
In kindness, he reexplained in way more detail below.
The question is, will you read it yet ask again.
No offense lol
Actually, it took about 10 minutes or so, but otherwise you’re spot on.
assbackwards, you’re wrong, its fine if you want to support Lyle but he’s a big boy and doesn’t mind being condescending but better learn how to take it if he want to give it. I don’t have the time of day for those who think their big because they want to call people down or talk down to them. It’s a simple as that.
LOL, look in the mirror, Caper, and practice what you preach.
Everyone and their dog knows Boston need two top 4 dman, so I wondering if the bruins were to trade Brad Marchand would he fetch a top 4 dman. The need for a top 4 damn is stronger then the 30 goals Marchand brings. I like Marchand but unless we can move Krecji (hip surgery) don’t think so, then Marchand is the best option. Would he bring back a top 4 d? please don’t say Vatanen the bruins have his clone in Krug.
I like Marchand, I don’t know if the Bruins would trade him. He adds more to the game than just points. He does a great job of taking the opponent’s top players off of their game and plays with a high level of grit. IMO that would be a huge mistake for the Bruins.
Several UFA options available this summer. Lets exhaust those before expending assets to address, especially Marchand part of my core group in Boston. I like Goligoski, Yandle would be my 2nd choice. I also like Demers 4/5 guy & Polak 5/6 guy as solid depth options. I’m also a proponent of just letting the youth develop although we could use a solid #2 guy like Goligoski. A D that can log a ton of minutes & play both ways.
Striker, let’s for arguemnt sake say the bruins are able to land 2 of the d you mentioned. Who are you other 4 d? i guessing Sieds, Chara, Krug and Macquaid. Then what to do with C.Miller and Morrow?
Like most young Dman they rotate in & out of the line up as injuries dictate & Julien feels they should play based on competition. I only advocate for adding Goligoski or Yandle but if they miss out on either then Demers or Polak not more than 1 of the 4.
My D would be Chara, Krug, Goligoski, Sedenberg, McQuad, C. Miller, Morrow & I would retain Trotman or K. Miller if cheap & make sure that at least 1 of C. Miller or Morrow plays each night in a limited, sheltered role, to continue their development.
Brad Marchand would absolutely bring back a top 4 defenseman, all day everyday… but the Boston Bruins wouldn’t entertain moving him for a couple of reasons. First, the goal scoring, which was higher this season (37) but still he’s a pivotal piece to the team in terms of goal production during the season. A lot of people point to the fact that goal scoring wasn’t an issue this season as they finished 5th in the league goals for… however, without Marchand the team finishes tied for 25th… now it’s not necessarily a fair comparison because obviously there would be another winger in that role, so realistically you lose 17 goals… still puts you at 15th overall. Second, he’s a player the organization has drafted, molded, promoted to the NHL, and has now flourished in his role as the shifty, rat, goal scoring winger.
I do absolutely agree with you that the work on the defense far outweighs the goal scoring but it’s been so long since this team has had someone who could put it in the net… and Marchand really stepped up this season and almost hit 40 goals!!! I’d much rather give up David Krejci, although the hip surgery is going to hurt his timeline in terms of value… teams are going to want to see if he can play to that level post-surgery and also he has a NMC. I do agree as well, I want absolutely nothing to do with the name Vatanen… thanks but no thanks. I don’t think his ceiling is as high as people think and as you mentioned we already have his clone in Krug. Colin Miller is another puck moving, offensive defenseman in our system that really should be ready to play all of next season. I’d like a bigger, shutdown defenseman.
I said this a couple days ago on here. Reading Anaheim is looking for a top line Left wing. The question is does he want to stay in Boston. If not his value is at the highest right now. Just like moving Lucic last season.
I was thinking Fowler and Silverberg for Marchand seems fair. Maybe Boston throws in a prospect or First rounder.
The Leafs still need 3 NHL defenseman and two goaltenders, along with another NHL center. Bernier is not gonna make it, I am sorry.
I would steer clear of Stamkos, he wants $10M per year for years. He’s not a #1 center that can lead a team to the Cup. The last year or so in TB is proof of that.
Shattenkirk will be traded at the draft – the Blues don’t really need him, nor can they afford him anymore. They will trade him and use the space to hopefully resign Backes at a manageable rate.
Tarasenko better get it going for the Blues.
I have said it before. THe leafs will short cut the total rebuild and make a push for Stamkos.
I also think the Subban deal to the oilers makes sense. Shake both cultures up-and the value is equitable. Hall/Klefbom
I think the Leafs will push for Stamkos as well. I not convinced they will get him. Being a Sens fan I kinda hope they don’t, I don’t want the leafs getting good and beating the Sens to a playoff position haha. Yet a Stamkos, Mathews, Kadri line up down the middle would be nice. However that would be a lot of money tied up in these three guys. After committing to Kadri I would think the Leafs had in their minds that they would take Mathews or try and get Stammkos. Looks like they got Mathews so dont’ need Stamkos. I wonder if they sign surprise us all and sign Stamkos after drafting Laine.
Wonder what that would do to the Leaf world.
sign stamkos and you have these options still:
trade kadri with in 3-5 yrs
trade stamkos after 5yrs
or keep them both
all viable options
lammerello wouldnt signn stamkos if it handcuffs them
all indictions are that its happening
either way leafs gonna pwn ottawa soon 😛
lol
I don’t see how the Subban deal makes sense for either team. The Oilers can get a Defensmen for far cheaper than that price. To me Hall isn’t a player I would trade. Montreal D would look horrible with out Subban on it. Surely if Montreal wants better forwards they can do it via free agency or trading players not named Subban.
Yet it would be fun to watch leaf world implode if montreal traded for Hall and then signed Stamkos. I have to say a Stamkos/Hall combo looks pretty sweet in my mind as I imagine them skating around. haha
How is adding Stamkos short cutting the rebuild?
They will have drafted 4th last season and #1 this season .. They have a fantastic AHL team full of kids who look like NHL Players.
They will have Matthews as a 2nd/3rd line Center for next season with a reasonably priced Kadri and Bozak.
Nylander, Marner are high end talent, even with Stamkos they probably still draft in the top 10 next season which is where they should be unless they are following the Oilers blue print.
Adding Stamkos maybe shaves a year off the rebuild,
I think ultimately it depends on how much it takes to sign Stamkos, and what would happen with Marner and Nylander. Both those prospects are centers… Matthews (if we select him) is a center… Stamkos is a center. Kadri and Bozak, both on multi-year deals, are also centers.
Something else to consider, and this is assuming Stamkos does sign, is that maybe Toronto can get a great package from Arizona for Matthews, which would include Strome or Domi or Duclair, their 1st round pick, and another prospect/pick (personally I’d go for Domi). That would provide more youthful assets for the team. It reminds me of when Toronto signed Curtis Joseph when they already had Felix Potvin. The argument was signing a top goalie created a good trade chip that could help the team in a different position.
Would love to see Stamkos snub the Leafs. Just to hear them cry every time he plays in Toronto.
Yeah, the Marlies are having a fantastic season and may even win the Calder Cup. But before anyone goes all ga-ga over their roster, just consider this: in 2010-11 the Binghamton Senators won the cup. Today, the best of the entire roster are Hoffman and Smith with solid contributions in Ottawa. The rest? Most are still toiling away in the minors somewhere or in Europe. Wiercioch will soon be looking for a job and Borowiecki is, at best, the 9th D in Ottawa’s depth chart. Maybe 10th. Condra is a plugger in TB. Gryba is a UFA in Edmonton. Cowen is looking for a job. Anywhere. Greening was part of the salary dump in the Phaneuf trade. And Lehner is still trying to establish himself – this time in Buffalo.
There are probably one or two Marlies who will contribute significantly to the Leafs down the line – if any of the rest make it to the NHL it likely won’t be as major contributors.
I really don’t see the Canadians trading Subban. Like Lyle has said, trading Subban would “blowing a huge hole in the Habs blueline that will be impossible to suitably address via trade or free agency”
As an Oiler fan I would be consciously happy if PC could pull this off though.
Scott, they have demonstrated the exact opposite in their actions: rather than short-circuiting the rebuild, they finished in last place this year and won the lottery!
In case anyone was unclear, they have also explicitly stated that they are sticking to a long term rebuilding plan, most recently at the conclusion of the draft lottery when Shanahan praised ownership for their support for rebuilding.
You can suggest they are going to do a u-turn, but let’s be clear in acknowledging that this is pure conjecture that flies in the face of all of the evidence available.
Subban is not being traded to EDM.
Thanks Dan39 for all your wisdom
all true and well said, but shan & lou also said, if the right players are available they will go for it.
Also many of those beloved new prospects / picks (aka the future) are also potential trade chips.
They will not go past 26 yrs old though signing old players
The Leafs are going to be better, not a playoff team next season; although if they found a way to make it into the playoffs next season it would not shock me, I just don`t expect it to happen, but the playoffs are not that far away and the rebuild will continue regardless of the on ice results. There wont be any short cuts specifically but that does not mean they wont sign the players they want now.
The rebuild for me means they will not be sacrificing the future for today. Signing the right free agents, Stamkos, Backes, Yandle, Goligocksi, what have you & putting the right foundation & mentors in place does not mean dressing just youth. As always just look at Edmonton.
Part of rebuilding is seasoning your stud prospects & not rushing them to the NHL unless they are truly ready. See Drouin, R. Strome, Domi, etc. Have them play out their JR eligibility, get them half a season or more in the AHL to learn to be proper NHL players.
I do not think its 5 years from now before the Leafs make the playoffs, far shorter but they won`t be moving high picks & solid prospects like say a Chicago or LA etc have to add pieces for their playoff runs. They will stay the course.
My favorite team Boston is in the middle of a rebuild. They did not sacrifice the future significantly to improve their playoff chances today. They kept all their best prospects & picks & expended a few others to buy some depth. I did not like the acquisitions they made, I wanted McGinn & Hamhuis but it was not to be.
With the addition of Zaitsev, Nylander as a full time NHLer & should they add Stamkos they are going to score far more goals. Toronto lost a ton of games as they just couldn’t finish with the roster they were icing & players were shut down early & for longer than they might normally have been if Toronto wasn’t playing to lose. If Bozak; 25 games missed, van Reimsdyk; 42 games, Komorov; 15, Lupul; 36, etc had been healthier & Phaneuf, Polak, Spalling, Winnik & others not expended for essentially futures or to free up future cap space Toronto wins far more games. These players will be replaced next season & they injured players healthy.
This is not the same bad team that finished last this season whether they sign Stamkos or not. A ton of change both in personal & culture has already happened in only 1 year & will continue. The on ice product will be better. Not playoff better but they will compete & keep improving. I am not a Toronto fan but I love what they have done & are doing.
The Leafs aren’t a playoff team with Stamkos, I don’t see how he cheats the rebuild. Since 2012 the Leafs have picked 5th, 21st, 8th, 4th and 1st this year, we’ve been stockpiling high picks for years. I’m not saying this is a complete team, or that the rebuild is done, but we can afford to add a big piece like him. It’s not like we’d be the first team to add a high priced free agent during a rebuild (see Chara in Boston, Hossa in Chicago) my point is that he’s one player, and a big piece that won’t cost anything but cap space. We’re still a couple of years away from competing and we’ll still be able to develope our picks with him in the fold. We got lucky with the first pick this year, but with the new lottery format there’s no point in tanking every year. After this draft we’ll have enough talent in the system to at least START adding pieces, what’s wrong with getting better without trading away future picks? If he wants to come here I’m all for it.
I’ve been saying the same thing. If you can sign Stamkos you do it. The Leafs are one of few teams that CAN afford it, from both a salary and salary cap perspective. The rebuild is not at risk. The rebuild to this point has been drafting, signing and developing players. Now they have to give these guys NHL ice time and put them in a position to succeed. The player has to be ready, they have to earn it, but they also have to come into an environment where there are talented veterans to learn from, where they’re not expected to be the face of the franchise from day one and where winning is not a rare occurrence. Tank Nation is history. They expect to win. The future won’t be compromised but it’s going to be a winning culture. The right decision is to sign this guy if you can and if it does occur I think people will be surprised that the dollar amount isn’t more. People tend to look at this as an impasse over money. If it was only about money and cap hit I firmly believe Stamkos would be signed by now. We will learn what motivates Stamkos by where he signs and for how much on July 1st.
Does anyone think that a trade between the Leafs & Coyotes would work?
Leafs get: Dylan Strome & the 7th overall pick
Coyotes get: 1st overall pick
Strome plus the Ranger’s first seems more of a possibility.
That being said I think Strome + is the only player/package they move it for. I know they were high on him last year, and given the choice they probably would’ve picked him over Marner. Domi plus won’t do it, and they aren’t moving OEL.
Leafs aren’t trading their first overall.
Strome and Rangers first might sound fair to you but I can assure you that Leafs fans, me included, would revolt.
No way that happens, no way
Durt, I don’t disagree with your logic based on merit, but don’t you get the sense after learning more about Matthews that his size and physical style and skill set oriented to shooting rather than passing, like Marner and Nylander, could be exactly the right fit in Toronto?
I hadn’t done much research into the player, because as a fan I didn’t want to be jealous of another team winning, but now that I have, I must say this Matthews player could be perfect for the Leafs.
Tazi, I think the only way the 1st overall moves is if TOR management can secure an obvious overpayment from ARZ that would rise above any questions as to the decision down the line.
Striker has made some good points over the past month or two arguing why ARZ would not do this – essentially, the team is in good financial health, it’s run by hockey people who would be offended at a marketing-driven trade, the fans won’t particularly care, etc), but I think they will explore the possibility.
Dan39 yes, i agree about his skill set. Don’t get me wrong I’m happy to draft Mathews, I think having a playmaking winger like Marner should work well with him. Strome and Mathews are different players, but both have franchise centre potential. I just like the idea of having Marner and Strome develope together. They’re both the same age, friends, grew up in the area, amazingly talented. If it doesn’t happen I won’t be heartbroken, like I said I’m very happy with Mathews.
Dan39 where do you get that Arizona’s financially sound. According to the owners they’re losing 30+ mill/ur. They need a new arena downtown, if this doesn’t happen moving is a real possibility
Yogi, my understanding is more in line with yours but Striker has been making arguments to the contrary recently – I was just pointing that out, there’s another view out there. it’s not my own.
I personally think ARZ and TOR are going to be talking about how badly the Coyotes want to pay for Matthews all the way up to the draft. Whether a deal happens, who knows?
Dan39 Striker doesn`t know his ass from a hole in the ground, The NHL ran Arizona for a few years, lost something in the neighbour of 180 mill during the time. A friend spends most of the winter down there, Ken says he paid 20 bucks for good seats and there`s lots of freebees each game. Arizona gets money each year from the gate equalization. They`re losing their shorts. They have an out clause in their lease coming up in 3 yrs. I think. If there`s no new arena or new revenue coming in, Arizona will be in Seattle. Attracting 12-13 thousand per game at sub par prices is not a viable hockey franchise. The NHL needs to get rid of teams like Arizona, Florida, Carolina and soon to be Vegas and move into actual hockey markets.
Arz lost 4.5 million last season, that is a far cry from the 30 mil annually before the NHL bought them in receivership. That is also less than StL, Car, NYI, or Flo lost & only nominally less than Col, or Ana & just a few million from what Nas, LA, Buf or Minny made. They have drawn essentially 13000 fans per game over the last 5 seasons & are not leaving Glendale for at least 5 years. Those revenues may or may not include revenue sharing the info provider doesn’t say.
Arz is not going any where. This is the 18th largest TV market in America & for the NHL to secure long term revenue streams from a national broadcaster they have to have a presence in at least the largest 20 markets to have any hope. The reason the NHL bought them in receivership & funded operations until new ownership could be found to keep Arizona in Arizona.
Arizona will eventually relocate but in or around Pheonix. I would say they either return to the downtown arena in 5 years; current lease arrangement in Glendale, or they wait until a new building is constructed. I assume a hockey specific building will be built in Tempe in the University district.
If the City of Glendale hadn’t kept pushing this negative spin & the team not with 1 foot out the door for over a decade they would be drawing far better. The future looks bright in Arizona as Maloney has laid a brilliant foundation of young stud players that are going to make Arizona a far better team over the next 3 to 5 years as they all work their way into the NHL. No team has a better prospect pool than Arizona today. That may change next season as Strome, Dvorak, & possibly Perlini will join Domi, Duclair as full time NHLers no longer being considered prospects.
Did I read that right: Oilers would consider trading #4 pick and in a DIFFERENT sentence they would consider Sami V ? If I’m Bob Murray, my plane lands at the Edmonton airport at noon today and we are having lunch. Can’t see this happening but we are talking about the OILERS.
I can see the Oilers trading the 4th to move back in the draft. But not to far back. They should be attempting to draft defensemen. So if they can move back to the 7-10 spot they may be ok. If they make a move they would likely wait till draft day and watch as it plays out and make the move when they think they can better ascertain where they guy they want might go.
Picking up a D man by moving back in the draft and then drafting one would be quite beneficial to them. However is there any team out their that would D a D man to the oiler that still has a single digit draft pick.
Edm has Reinhart, Nurse & Klefbom. They don`t specifically need another really young 1 so soon. Ideally they need a number 1 but that can not be had so they may have to trade for a current number 2 or 3 that might have number 1 potential in the near future. Their 4th plus, might get them a solid Dman that can play as their number 2 now.
If I`m Anaheim I don`t know if I trade Vatanen for the number 4 pick. Do I want to turn Vatanen into Tkachuk, Nylander or Dubois, I don`t think so maybe. It is way harder to get a Vatanen than what these 3 players appear to be currently. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Money will factor in & that changes the dynamics of trades in today’s NHL.
I heard an interview with Murray; Anaheim, on the NHL network the other day. He said revenues were up this season so their internal cap will be going up proportionately. He never said what that number was.
Are you insinuating that a trade could be had where Sami Vatanen is moved for the 4th overall pick (Oilers)? Cause in that case it’s purely speculation or rather hopeful dreams by Anaheim fans. Vatanen is a good defenseman, can move the pick… I’m not as high on his as many people are. He’s Torey Krug. The Ducks will move Vatanen this summer and get a good return but it won’t be a top 5 pick in this draft, maybe not even top 10 and likely won’t be the enormous haul everyone (fans and writers that follow the team) think it will be. I’d bet that it will involve a 1st round pick, mid round… higher end prospect (forward) or an affordable roster player who’s a forward with room to grow. People are losing sight of the fact that all of the other 29 teams know the position Anaheim is in and could simply send offer sheets their way. Why would a team completely overpay in terms of assets in a trade when they can send an offer sheet for between $5.4m-$7.3m per and lose a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd instead. Especially if the 1st is a mid or late round, same goes for the other picks. That’s why I honestly feel the package for Vatanen won’t be as substantial as people or fans hope it will be.
Less than $1,205,377 : Nothing
$1,205,377-to-$1,826,328 : Third-round pick
$1,826,328-to-$3,652,659 : Second-round pick
$3,652,659-to-$5,478,986 : First and third-round picks
$5,478,986-to-$7,305,316 : First, second and third-round picks
$7,305,316-to-$9,131,645 : Two firsts, a second and third-round picks
$9,131,645 or greater : Four first-round picks
Chad
No I am not. Sami V will traded and it won’t be Oilers. I was just poking at Oilers,The story mentioned they were interested in Sami V and in the same story it was mentioned that they would consider trading the #4 pick, so I thought I’d start trouble. He will be signed for somewhere around 4 mil ( Guessing) and that puts him in the first round draft pick area. Best guess is Toronto for (Pittsburh #1) or Carolina for ( KIngs#1 which will be in the 20 something slot
Haha gotcha! I was going to say… oh great here we go lol I’d expect something around the Dougie Hamilton return, a 1st and two 2nd round picks. Or as I mentioned, a 1st and a top end prospect or young roster player who has a controllable and reasonable contract
Well Vatanen will probably push 5.5 per so if someone wants to offer sheet him Murray will be happy to take the 1st, 2nd & 3rd. If less than the picks threshold Murray will be happy to match.
The amount of trash talk that Leaf fans have been spouting about how Jack Eichel is just an average player and how Toronto has better prospects than the sabres is just too funny. I hope Eichel runs up the points on Leafs next year. Saying Eichel “couldn’t hold Matthews jock” come on people
not sure who said that here. You should keep yahoo hockey comments at yahoo hockey…not here
I’ve literally never heard anyone describe Eichel as an average player. And to say he is somehow a level down from Matthews is nonsense. Why are you getting so worked up over this?
Agreed… Matt I wouldn’t get so worked up over it. Matthews isn’t Eichel it McDavid. He would’ve gone 3rd last year ahead of Strome and anyone that thinks otherwise is getting caught up in the nonsense that follows a prospect who’s going to go #1… He’s going to be a good player no doubt but leafs fans are just basking in the glory of owning a #1 pick. Let them gloat. It’s a nice step towards the future for their franchise but there’s glaring holes that will still need to be addressed. It’s a long term rebuild up there in Toronto.
Hey Matt, waaaaaa! You didn’t get the first pick again so waaaaaa!leafs fans this….leafs fans that. Your doing thee exact same thing as the leafs fans are doing. Get a grip.
Surprise surprise…the Flames fired Hartley. Is it a Coincidence that not long ago Boudreau was fired? Is history repeating itself in regards to Boudreau ability to obtain a new job quickly after being canned. Three teams are in the market for his services now. The Sens have permission to talk with him…wonder if he would want to come to a team who fires coaches as often as the Sens. Ottawa might have a tough time selling themselves to a coach who can likely easily find a job in the NHL anywhere. Some coaches will take any job just to get back in the NHL. Some can pick and choose and Boudreau seems to be one of those. I expect more vacancies to appear as well. Yet at this point Boudreau is top of my list for a coach in Ottawa.
NHL head coaches, if nothing else, have HUGE egos. They couldn’t function in such a high-pressure job if they didn’t. Who Ottawa has fired will not be a factor in Boudreau ‘s decision. Hell, going from a perennial playoff team to Toronto didn’t give Babcock pause for thought. It’s the challenge that drives them.
& the money. Babcock has set the bar for coaches salary’s. Boudreau will cost 4 million plus to sign for at least 5 years. That is some serious security whether you get to keep the job for the entire 5 years or not. The moneys yours.
What is Shattenkirk worth?
The Sens 1st rounder at 12 straight up?
or the pick and Zibby?
It would depend on which hand Shattenkirk shoots I guess. He might be worth the pick and Zibby, or just the pick or neither. I believe Karlsson and Ceci shoot right. Phaneuf I’d think is left playing with Ceci. Yet often times we see two righties on the same line. Yet it would appear to me that Ottawa if acquiring a solid veteran D that they should find a Left hand shooter to go with Karlsson. Which is why I would love for them to get Chychurn (I believe shoots left) who yesterday someone claimed was an offensive D man they dont’ need. I will admit I don’t know the player that well. I just read scouting reports and he has been reported as already having an NHL size body. 6,2″ 188 pounds and a Solid two way Defensman that can pretty much do it all. If Shatt shoots left, Collin White possibly moving up to the NHL and if Ottawa can’t draft a solid Defensive prospect perhaps they can make that move. Maybe add St. Louis later first round draft pick.
I know the Sens picked up Phaneuf but I still feel they need to improve the D. An injury to their top four still leaves a big hole. Perhaps that Sea Dog they have drafted will make the jump sooner than I expect.
Perhaps I am wrong and all they need is a more consistent bottom pairing guy, and better two way forwards.
If they were able to land Shattenkirk, right away I’ drop Methot to the 5/6 pairing to mentor Chabot. He’s always nursing some kind of nagging injury and maybe that comes from playing alongside Karlsson for 27-28 minutes a game. Reduced to 13-15 minutes might just help prolong Methot’s career.
Ottawa isn’t spending the money its going to cost to reup Shattenkirk nor do I thing he would accept a trade to Ottawa. He doesn’t have a no trade clause but with 1 year to UFA status its just as relevant.
Ryan wasn’t going to re-sign in Ottawa either according to all the resident “experts.” He was headed to Philadelphia they all said. Why wouldn’t Shattenkirk accept a deal to Ottawa? because it’s a backwater location? Because it’s a lousy team?
Much more I would imagine. Maybe two firsts and a second.
But only if he signs extension.
I don’t think anyone will trade for him unless he’s staying longer than a year.
I have a what-if scenario. Coyotes want Auston Matthews more than anything. He could save the team in Arizona (maybe going a bit far but it’s possible).
What if they offered the Leafs a combo of OEL and Domi? Wouldn’t they have to listen? If they threw in their pick this year wouldn’t it be crazy to not take it?
The Coyotes are on record stating that they don’t want Matthews with any dire need. OEL is over payment. OEL and Domi is grand larceny committed by Toronto if they convince Arizona to do that. It simply makes little sense to trade a top Defenseman for a young yet proven player no matter how he may project. Then add another quality prospect/player on top.
You are overvaluing the top pick in the draft. I mean Ottawa needs a bonafide number one Centre. Why don’t they trade Karlsson and White for Mathews? Because it is stupid to give up such an elite Defensemen let alone the added quality prospect. The reasoning goes in regards to montreal moving Subban.
Agree with what you’re saying, but there’s some posturing in that too. They’d like to have Matthews – that’s clear – and if he and Strome are the same player in terms of contribution in their eyes, they would want Matthews more. I think it’s almost a guarantee that talks go down. Whether anything happens, is anyone’s guess.
Hey Jeff, I agree that the trade would be absurd. So you’re saying Toronto would do it right? Because I’m not sure. We’re talking about them finally getting the elite Center they’ve always wanted. I do it if I’m them but i don’t know.
My thinking is this. Say if Arizona basically knows it’s swirling around the toilet right now. Bringing in a hometown hero, who some are saying is as good as McDavid, might be a last ditch effort to keep the Coyotes in Arizona. THEN do you do it?
That is harder to decide. There are still unknown’s with guys even projected to do as good as McDavid. I would try hard to bring back another Defensmen in the deal along with the pick for the McDavid type prospect. Maybe create a huge multi player package going both ways.
Matthews is not McDavid, not even close. McDavid is a generational player, they come along once in a blue moon, nor is he Eichel & he may or may not be D. Strome.
As Mackenzie stated when he pooled 14 GMs & scouts to create his draft list Matthews was the consensus number 1 but at least 1 team had Laine 1st & he assumes others would as well. What Matthews is, is a top pick in essentially a normal draft year that doesn’t have a generational player like McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin, etc. Like, Hall, McKinnon, RNH, etc. The best potential player & a future superstar most likely but not McDavid. Who is a superstar. He was before he even got to the NHL.
Oh yes if Toronto can get both OEL and Domi by all means pull the trigger on that trade any day of the week.
I have always thought along the same lines as you with Subban, Lyle. But as time goes on, I think that a Subban to Oiler deal could work great for both teams.
PK will be a better player in Edmonton than he is in MTL because he will be under the microscope, and when he makes mistakes he will be held accountable. He can’t be held accountable in MTL, because he is bigger than the team. Therrien tries to hold him accountable, but Subban will just point to his point totals as defense, and everyone eats it up. Nevermind that he is one of the highest paid players in the history of the NHL, and makes almost twice as much as Price, who is far more important to this team.
Plus, the Montreal AHL defense played pretty darn good in his absence. Joel Hanley notched 6 assists in his 10 games, and this is a guy who probably never expected to play an NHL game in his career. So racking up assists on the back end is possibly not as hard as PK would have you believe.
I say roll the dice. Habs need goals, Hall is good for 25+ a year. And really, I don’t think that losing Subban is going to hurt the Canadiens offence that much. He is a black hole on the PP and gives the puck away more than any other player in the NHL (by a wide margin, too). And after all, if they land Hall they will have two of the top goal scorers in the NHL, something that they haven’t been able to say for decades.
There should be a list with teams that are NOT interested in signing Stamkos this summer. I’d say the landscape of teams not calling his agent are-
Anaheim
Boston
Chicago
Dallas
Pittsburgh
St Louis
Washington
Edmonton…oops
Add the Kings to that list.
Actually the Bruins have been mentioned in signing Stamkos I guess if they don’t sign Loui and Kelly and move Sieds they could afford it. They have plenty of room and could trade a first and a prospect or two for a half decent D- man.
Where does Stamkos fit with Krejci and Bergeron?
Kings are not so deep.
Yeah I heard Boston somewhere also.
I really don’t see it though.
Boston needs to rebuild not jam up their cap space.
Leafs would be crazy to trade away Mathews. A team would have to make quite an offer or overpayment to get Toronto to bite . Winnipeg could be just such a team . they have a second 1st rounder (chicago around 22nd) and some good young players like Ehlers and Trouba and Hellebuyck and they have the depth in prospects to pull it off .Then they could sit with 1st and 2nd in the draft overall.Im not saying the Jets would give up all this but it would have to be close to this to this to get the leafs interest . leafs could add a little to the package say (Cowen or Lupul NOT )
Winnipeg will get exactly what they need should Toronto take Matthews 1st overall, Laine. With Little & Scheifele as their top 2 Cs & Lowry, Petan & Copp coming Winnipeg has far more need of a winger than C, they wont be trading up & are praying Toronto actually takes Matthews so they get Laine.
Everyones talking stamkos to leafs …what about if he decides to join his childhood and best friend pk subban with the habs…habs had a bad year last year but you look at a team with a healthy price…subban, pacioretty, galchenyuk and gallagher – thats not looking too bad.
the nice thing about stamkos to the leafs is that it is not a must do situation anymore
ANy team in the league would take him in a heart beat
Come on guys, we all know he is taking the Melnyk discout and coming to Ottawa. hahaahah
Would Scherback, Juulsen and 9th pick 2016 ,would land you K Shattenkirk?Maybe Add a 2nd pick from Mtl to stl?
Would Subban land you a 4th overall, RNH & Klefbom?Maybe add a litlle something with Pk?
I would trade Subban for just the 4th overall.
Just to relieve the cap hit.
Toronto should take Laine if Stamkos signs.
Laine might be a better player anyway.
“The only way I see this working is if the Habs get a return for Subban that brings in a top scorer and a No.1 defenseman..”
I guess that would be a non contending club whose number one is more like a top second pairing guy on a top club, because top scorer plus seems to rich for any contender to chop itself at the knees for Subban, as much as we all love his style fire and attack prowess.
I can actually see Snow reacting favorably to a deal including Edmonton’s first rounder now that that deal would be completed in the offseason. Mid-season Snow definitely wanted an equivalent replacement and I think he would still like his original price honored. But, I don’t think he is above picking up an asset before the draft that would help him to that goal. The Isles have a few prospects, defensive and offensive, that are almost NHL ready or will be next season. Since Shattenkirk is likely to be available, Snow would have to consider making a pitch for him, and having the #4 overall pick to add to that potential offer or another trade offer would just make it more likely that such a deal gets made. All that being said, I doubt that just the #4 overall pick would be sufficient to get Snow to give up Hamonic. Edmonton would likely also have to give up some combo of additional picks, prospects, or need-filling roster players for the Isles.