Latest on the Blues, Oilers and Lightning, plus an update on potential expansion rules in your NHL rumor mill.
Questions about the Blues.
What kind of return could the Blues want for defenseman Kevin Shattenkirk?
STLTODAY.COM: Among the 10 offseason questons Jeremy Rutherford raised regarding the St. Louis Blues was what they might do with pending UFA forwards David Backes and Troy Brouwer, what they’ll need in return in a possible Kevin Shattenkirk trade, the cost of re-signing RFA left wing Jaden Schwartz, trading or keeping center Vladimir Sobotka,
After Schwartz, re-signing Backes is their priority. If he proves too expensive, they could instead try to re-sign Brouwer, but he could get expensive too. He suggests a return for Shattenkirk might not include an established player, as adding salary could prevent them from re-signing Backes. Regarding a rumored deal shipping Shattenkirk and goalie Brian Elliott to the Edmonton Oilers for Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and the fourth-overall pick, Rutherford doesn’t believe the Blues want to move a goalie. He doesn’t think the Blues will go as high as $6 million per season to re-sign Schwartz. If Sobotka decides to return from the KHL, Rutherford thinks they’ll keep him. His salary would be $2.75 million for 2016-17.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Re-signing Schwartz and Backes or Brouwer certainly means the Blues won’t want to take back much (if any) salary in a Shattenkirk trade.
Would Lucic to the Oilers make sense?
EDMONTON JOURNAL: David Staples weighs in on speculation suggesting the Edmonton Oilers could be a free-agent destination for Los Angeles Kings left wing Milan Lucic. He questions the logic of investing a six-year deal at $6 million per season in the 27-year-old power forward. Doing so would mean the Oilers would have two expensive players (Lucic and Taylor Hall) at left wing.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: I agree with Staples that the Oilers could use a rugged power forward like Lucic, but not on an expensive long-term contract. Does GM Peter Chiarelli feel the same way? We’ll find out within the next three weeks.
Latest Lightning speculation.
SPORTSNET 590 (VIA TODAY’S SLAPSHOT): Elliotte Friedman believes there’s a chance the Tampa Bay Lightning can re-sign pending UFA Steven Stamkos if they can get his annual salary in the range of $9 million per season. He also wonders if the Bolts will try re-signing defenseman Victor Hedman (who’s eligible for UFA status next July) this summer and if that could cost around $9 million annually. If he does that, can he afford Stamkos and RFA winger Nikita Kucherov? Friedman believes someone will have to go, perhaps goalie Ben Bishop.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: The cost of re-signing Stamkos, Hedman and Kucherov could be a combined $25 million ($9 million each for Stamkos and Hedman, $7 million per for Kucherov). Shedding Bishop’s $6 million cap hit will help, but they’ve also got to re-sign Tyler Johnson, Ondrej Palat and Jonathan Drouin next summer.
Updates expansion draft rules.
SPORTSNET: Chris Johnston reports NHL teams are receiving more information on rules for a potential expansion draft next year.
“A minimum of two forwards and one defenceman must be exposed who have played 40 games the previous season, or a total of 70 over the previous two.
There is also a requirement that the 40/70 players are under contract for the first expansion season.
Each team will be allowed to protect seven forwards, three defencemen and one goalie
Players holding no-movement clauses – including those modified by limited no-trades, such as Pittsburgh Penguins goalie Marc-Andre Fleury – count against the protection limit, provided that those contracts and clauses extend through the 2017-18 season.
However, players with no-movement clauses on deals that expire June 30, 2017 like Calgary Flames defenceman Dennis Wideman or Minnesota Wild forward Thomas Vanek wouldn’t have to be protected for a draft that is likely to be held a week or two beforehand.
Teams will also be permitted to ask players to waive their no-movement clauses for inclusion in the expansion draft.”
SPECTOR’S NOTE: The update on the no-movement clauses is noteworthy, as it was assumed players in Fleury’s situation couldn’t be protected. It increases the likelihood such players could be traded this summer.
I would use Wideman this summer in trade. Good veteran d-man with one year left. Someone has got to be interested- Detroit Boston
I could see a Howard for Wideman swap at the draft, And then hopefully since Detroit doesn’t really need Wideman they trade him to Boston for their 2016 2nd or 3rd round pick this way Detroit gets Howard’s $5.3 million off the books for 3 years. We really don’t need Wideman he wont help us for 1 year any ways. And Boston was going to trade for him at the time he got suspended. He would help Boston far more then Detroit. Detroit gets out of Howard’s contract Calgary only pays Howard’s salary pretty much for 2 years instead of 3 years here and Boston gets their D man that they tried to get at the TDL win win all around.
Gary,
Boston won’t be interested in Wideman. They were before the trade deadline because they needed immediate help on defense and the amount of defenseman available to be traded were thin… the Bruins have much more flexibility now in the offseason to be picky, plan things out longer term, ect. Wideman was going to be a playoff run answer and Calgary was going to take back significant salary to do so. Wideman may still get moved but I highly doubt Boston is involved. He’s also due $6 mil this upcoming season and struggles to stay healthy.
Howard is a negative value acquisition. Multiple years left on an expensive contract of a declining goaltender while Wideman only has one year left. With a buyer’s market for goaltending and seller’s market for defense, Calgary would never acquire Howard without retention and even then, the plus attached would need to be extremely enticing. So enticing, I imagine, Detroit would have to pass.
I don’t see Wideman getting much value for Calgary…
He’s a 33 year old defenseman who typically underperforms more seasons than not… struggles to stay healthy and is due to get something like $6 mil in the ’16-17 season. I’m sure the Bruins were interested before he got suspended, doubt they are at this point. He was a stopgap to help the Bruins make a run into the playoffs and most reports had Calgary taking back a large chuck of salary (both in ’15-16, ’16-17). He won’t net Calgary much of a return. A 3rd round pick and likely still some salary to be retained by Calgary.
I have proposed this basic solution for both Calgary & Detroit, not the Boston dynamic many times. Detroit would also have to eat 2 to 3 million of Howard’s remaining 2 years to facilitate this deal getting the cap hit obligation to Calgary down near 4 million per over the final 2 seasons.
I like Fleury better than Howard if I need a goalie, Andersen even more so but Calgary needs to get Wideman off the books & neither Pittsburgh or Anaheim are going to want Wideman’s cap hit even for 1 season, Detroit needs serious help at D so this may be the best potential fit as a short term solution in Calgary & they can then expose Howard in expansion if it doesn’t work out fully. They just need to buy time for their future #1 goalie Gillies.
Pens are going to need to sign another d-man next year. If CAL needed to exchange salary I could see MAF for wideman and a decent asset (1st rounder in 2017, OR a good prospect) being doable. Wideman actually fits the Pens d-model.
“Neither Pittsburgh or Anaheim are going to want Wideman’s cap hit even for 1 season”
I know Bruins were tied to Wideman before deadline and now there are some rumors out there regarding Wideman and Boston. I’d also include Boston on that list of “not wanting that cap hit”… Wideman just isn’t that good anymore, very injury prone, and unless Calgary is giving him away and taking back significant salary… Basically Wideman holds about as much value as Seidenberg IMO
Calgary is never going to acquire Howard unless the deal involves an asset from Detroit that they particularly covet. Treliving (Calgary GM) took a lot of heat for an undesirable goaltending situation that resulted in even more undesirable results…there is absolutely no way he elects to take a chance on a declining goaltender unless he has a VERY good reason to do so.
Pittsburgh needs to get rid of dmen not Watd a good asset like Fleury on an old over the hill Wideman. Derrick Pouliot is a much more talented and much cheaper option than Wideman and he will need to finally get his PT next season. Pitts will be saying adios to Lovejoy and maybe even Cole so that they can keep Justi Shultz.
Silver seven —- Pat????
Shattenkirk to the Bruins for a draft pick. Blues should not have to retain any salary.
Shattenkirk to Edmonton for their 1st rounder
Not happening no way is Shattenkirk resigning with Edmonton, He either wants to stay in St Louis or go home close to New York City they pretty much already said that Shattenkirk has no desire to play in Canada he will sign with a Eastern Conference team on July 1st 2017.
If I’m StL done with out the slightest hesitation. If I’m Edmonton not a hope. Shattenkirk isn’t signing on long term in Edmonton.
The other issue is Edmonton has a protection problem self created by Chiarelli. Right now Sekera, Kelfbom & I assume Reinhart considering they paid the 16th & 33rd picks in last seasons draft to acquire him need to be protected at D. Or is Edmonton just going to expose reinhart & risk losing what essentially boils down to 2 solid picks?
Shattenkirk to Toronto for their first rounder
I think the only way St. Louis holds 1 cent on Shattenkirk is if the trade him at the deadline to a cap strapped team.
I think there is zero chance Shattenkirk would be willing to re-sign with Edmonton if they were to trade for him.
More like Shattenkirk to Boston for Spooner and San Jose’s 1st.
It will take far more then just a pick from Boston to get Shattenkirk, Armstrong will want a decent prospect plus most likely Boston’s 2016 1st round pick for any deal on Shattenkirk.
No way any team is giving those kinds of assets unless Shattenkirk agrees to an extention firse!
I have not heard Shattenkirk say he would not play in Canada, he prefers to go back east. I think the Broones have the assets to make the deal.
Why may anything for a player that is facing UFA status in 1 season & is essentially a clone of Yandle but will probably demand more money than Yandle to sign?
Striker,
Shattenkirk won’t be 28 until January and Yandle is turning 31 prior to the start of training camp this season. I do agree they’re both very similar players but if Shattenkirk demands more then rightfully should. He’s a younger player. If I have to choose between Yandle and Shattenkirk and Shattenkirk demands an extra $1-1.5 mil per… I take Shattenkirk. I want the younger player who’s in his prime.
Yandle turns 30 on September 9th. Shattenkirk 28 on January 28th, 2 years 4 months difference. Age isn’t an issue for me for either player & I’m far more concerned with term, salary, Shattenkirk’s injury issues the last few seasons & cost to acquire.
Shattenkirk missed 10 games this season & 26 the season prior. Yandle hasn’t missed a single game in 7 years & actually played 83 games the season he was traded from Arizona to NYR.
Yandle at 6 to 6.5 for 6 years as opposed to Shattenkirk at 7 mil plus for 7 or 8 seasons, I’ll take Yandle the better offensive Dman for free nothing more than cash. He has a better transitional game than Shattenkirk as well which doesn’t really reflect in points.
Agree that Yandle may be better option due to lower cap hit and no assets to give up, where as with Shattenkirk trade it will cost you and likely not an opportunity to send much salary back given Blues situation.
Striker, you mentioned you had looked at each team’s situation for expansion draft purposes… lots of variables for the Blues but how do you see it impacting Schwartz resigning, Backes, Brouwer, and Shattenkirk?
Schwartz is getting at least 5.5 for 5 if not more money & term. If Shattenkirk isn’t moved no hope that either Backes or Brouwer can be retained.
If not for the cap & if these choices could solely be made for hockey reasons all would be signed & retained. Allot of variables in play.
The issue with backes is that numerous teams will gladly pay backes Kesler money & term. StL can’t. If Backes will accept what was originally offered 5.5 for 3 he’s a Blue, any more than that in dollars or term & StLouis will have little choice but to let him walk. If that happens perhaps they can get Brouwer locked up before some team offers him 4.5 to 5 for 3 or 4 years. The success of both has kind of priced StLouis out of the market unfortunately.
Lots of interesting stuff happening all over the NHL can’t wait for the balls to start dropping.
If Stamkos wanted to resign with Tampa he would have. Cleary it is personal and I hear from those close to the scene that Toronto has been in his sights for years.
Besides no way Tampa can retain all of its talent if they lock up 9+ million for Stamkos so its just as well.
If the Blues want to maximize their return on Shattenkirk then the deal must hinge on the receiving teams ability to re-sign him beyond the one year. No way a team like the Oilers overpay for a one year player.
Wideman is a good vet. d-man for any team if the price is right.
MAF will be traded this off season which is unfortunate given that Murray has proven nothing except his inclination to stay on his knees in all situations. The notion of expansion is so silly it is only exceeded by the decision to expand to Vegas.
Quebec with a declining dollar is still a better idea but noooo. Good luck with Vegas. Great place for players to live and visit but hometown commitment? You won’t find them on any page of their local sports pages.
I agree that Vegas is more than a terrible idea. Honestly, I believe Seattle is the best area for expansion at the moment. I mean, if soccer can not only survive, but thrive in Seattle…. Which is pretty amazing for ANY US city. Hockey couldn’t possibly fail!
Tell us about the Seattle Super Sonics…..
Well not having a building or an owner willing to pony up 1/2 a billion dollars kills that idea. Carolina will eventually end up in Seattle in about 6 or 7 years as they approach the expiry of their lease which expires in 2024 & said penalties to get out of it decline. There is a pay back formula should Carolina want to break the lease as it’s very favorable in the teams favor currently.
Las Vegas will embrace hockey, being the only professional sports franchise will get it a ton of press. Their season ticket sale drive & the speed in which they were snapped up shocked even the NHL. Visitors to Las Vegas will attend games in significant #’s. It will be cheaper than most shows you have to pay a stupid sum of money to attend.
Sure, I will. Right after you tell me how Atlanta failed twice with an NHL franchise, and Quebec failed as well. Followed by how any pro sports team have thrived in Vegas.
Seattle sonics failed because ownership could not convince the public to pony money for a new arena.
striker,
No way will an NHL franchise thrive in Vegas. Even the mighty NFL hasn’t dared to dip into that market. Another transient city with lots of visitors…… But how many of them are traveling to Vegas to catch a hockey game.
Terrible democratics for the NHL…. Terrible!
Exactly. And on the other side of the coin, they actually BUILT an arena in Kansas City that could house an NHL team – but they have no owners ready to fork over the expansion fee. Quebec City will be flop UNLESS some fundamental changes are made in language policy that will encourage players – especially UFAs – to go there.
I can’t speak to altanta the 1st time. Quebec failed due to the dollar & no businessmen nor revenue sharing nor cap to help boy the bottom line.
Atlanta failed the 2nd time as ownership was brutal. Don Wadell was an idiot & doomed this franchise from almost the get go. I’m still surprised that the NHL choose a differnt path with Atlanta than Pheonix.
The people backing Vegas & Quebec aren’t in the same realm as the owners in place when Atlanta moved twice & Quebec once. They are extremly rich as opposed to not & the rules in regards to the cap & revenue sharing have improved even since Atlanta moved to Winnipeg. There has been no major sports franchise in Vegas so I guess the answer is all of them which still is ZERO!
That’s why.
Vegas will be fine. Huge city, lots of hotels buying up tickets for promotions, massively successful season ticket drive. Only problem I see is one pointed out by someone else on this board previously… the SCF has had some of the most exciting games in recent playoff memory… in Pittsburgh. San Jose’s bad ice slowed down the games in CA… how will LV be able to fix that problem…
Striker,
Atlanta failed the 2nd time around because the democratics were wrong for hockey. They could have had a genius at the steering wheel. It’s either a fit or it’s not. I’d say the same about Miami, North Carolina, Phoenix and probably Nashville as well. You can’t jam the NHL down the throats of those that don’t want it. Something the NHL will never learn imo. If you honestly believe the Vegas media will care about the NHL after opening night, you are grossly overestimating not only Vegas, but the Nhls place in the US in general. Especially in places live Vegas or Phoenix parts of the country.
@chisms,
I agree, I think initially hotels will offer such promotions. But they’ll be paying bottom dollar for tickets that people more than likely won’t be using anyway. That won’t last long.
On a side note, unless the can sell jersey t-shirts, I can’t see merchandising being a huge success either. Wearing a jersey in Florida 11.5 months out of the year is unbearable…… I can’t even imagine what the desert would be like.
Zero= all? You think there is a reason that the number is still zero? The gambling capital of the world has yet to get an nfl franchise. Which by far is a gamblers draw, and most bet on sport (pro sport) on the planet….. But the NHL is ready to roll up their sleeves and dig in?
ny- same could be said for lots of cities in the US. Pitt, St. Louis, Dallas. Pitt for example really only took off after Mario. That excitement of the cups in the 90’s started kids playing hockey rather than other sports, rinks started getting built, etc. Now the city and surrounding areas are pumping out prime NHL’ers (trocheck,gibson, saad, JT miller, etc.) For the nhl to grow it needs to place teams in markets and let them establish roots… and it might take a super star or championship to do so. But when it does happen its great for the game.
@chism,
I think hockey is more of a cultural thing than other sports. You can swing a bat or throw a football in any city in the country. But it’s rather difficult to throw on some heavy hockey equipment and skates in the sand and 110 degree weather. A lot of southern cities are locked into baseball and football. And even the almighty nfl can struggle in places like Jacksonville Florida. Because they are sandwiched in between Florida/ Georgia ncaa football. And people will just refuse to open their hearts, and wallets to anything else.
“Huge city” Chrisms? The current metro pop of Clark County is 953,845. Hardly “huge” – in fact some 300,000 lower than metro Ottawa.
Add to that population the millions of visitors. It will be a unique crowd in that it will likely be a strong mix of visitors and home fans
Nyr4life.
Demographics; globally, are 1 of my primary areas of expertise & what my clients pay me to break down for them factoring in a great many variables as requested, projecting decades into the future. Atlanta is the 11th largest demographic market in the US with the CSA 2012 estimate at 6.3 million people. Now well over 7 million.
Don Waddell doomed this franchise right from the start drafting Stepan 1st overall in 1999, he had other numerous & notable 1st round selections that never justified his faith or selection, Coburn 8th in 03, Valabik 10th in 04, Bourret 16th in 05. Ownership issues ending in the courts doomed this franchise not the market. Terrible drafting, terrible trades, terrible ownership, were to much to overcome.
Atlanta drew consistently over 15 thousand fans a game for the majority of their time in Atlanta in their 2nd go round. Mismanagement was there demise.
NYR4life
I agree with your take on those cities mentioned except Nashville. They have embraced the game, it’s a great place to take in a game as the fans are knowledgeable and the building rocks.
I dont think they care much in North Carolina, thats NASCAR country. PHX is an interesting case as it may be better if the rink was more accessible.
Vegas will have a core group of fans. I hope they dont rely on tourists to fill the seats as when Im in Vegas I have other things to do.
Going to be an interesting situation to follow.
Nyr4life.
I agree with you, hockey won’t survive in Carolina & they won a cup. Hockey is staying in Florida, Pheonix & Nashville is moving in to model NHL franchise territory. Nashville made 2 million in 2014-15. With their 3 2nd round playoff gates this season & their share of the new Canadian TV package they will move into the 8 to 10 million range & next season when Weber’s salary drops from 14 to 12 million; for 2 years & then 6 million for the next 4, they’ll add another 2 million to their bottom line. Well not really as that money will simply go to pay someone else but you get the idea, it will stay in hockey operations & allow them to sign players like Forsberg to big ticket contracts.
Many of these no traditional markets had solid long term plans on how to develop their markets. Cities like Nashville & Dallas have spent 10’s of millions of dollars building infrastructure to develop their own fan bases. By this I mean they started building ice arenas in their markets so kids could play hockey & become future NHL fans. This takes decades but that fruit is just starting to be harvested & they are continuing to expand the infrastructure.
You may not be able to think that long term but Bettman can & is. His vision of the NHL has laid the foundation for the NHL to eventually become 1 of the most popular sports in the world. Football, basketball & even baseball don’t have the world wide reach that hockey does. Hockey is played in large volume in numerous countries all over the world.
We’ll be long dead or at least I will by the time the NHL expands over seas but it’s coming eventually.
Striker,
What isn’t an area of expertise for you? Oil guru, stock, bonds, astronaut, cliff diving , shark fighting, alligator wrestling, season tickets to 28 teams, jet setting around the globe with rock stars and athletes , while taking down the house in Vegas with your vast knowledge and unheard of odds.
Seriously, I’ve dealt with democratics for 20+ years. It is an area I’m extremely familiar with, hence why I bring it up so often. Using Google, and calling yourself a demographics expert is absurd, and insulting to everyone’s intelligence on this board.
If you were truly a democratics expert, you would know Atlanta has a very high African-American population. And if you sat at just 3 games of one of the numerous teams you hold season tickets to… You’d quickly realize the NHL doesn’t really have an enormous African American following. Ditto Hispanic following / population in Miami.
I actually like some of your posts. ( when they are well put and not so self involved) But seriously, it’s okay to once in a while say your out of your realm , or a simple I don’t know.
You don’t have to make up a story every time someone brings up a topic. And use google as a way of supporting your areas of expertise.
70% of the people in Atlanta are from the Northeast, Midwest or Canada. Saying demographics are poor in ATL is totally wrong.
Ownership – it’s the only reason Atlanta failed and the only reason they went to Winnipeg.
4th Hanson… 58% of the population is African American…..per Google stats. I’d say the real number is around 60-65%. Once again what % of the African American population is going to NHL games?
Again, we can argue all day, that your cat is a fish. It still won’t swim. I do understand democratics very well. Hockey will never work in places like Miami, North Carolina, Phoenix, Las Vegas or Atlanta. No matter how hard they try!
One thing the NHL under Bettman has done is repeatedly (and stubbornly) try to pound the proverbial square peg into that round hole. Above, chrisms tried to counteract my observation that Las Vegas, with a metro population of just over 900,000, wasn’t exactly “huge” – as he claimed – and he countered that with the “millions who go there as tourists. Yes, they do get a lot of tourists – but they are there for a combination of the shows and gambling and I doubt very many will flock to the rink to take in a hockey game.
Agree there is a good chance that he leaves but I really have no idea. Not sure what you mean by personal? I don’t think there is a rift between the MGT and player, but if he wants to be closer to home? Sure, but who knows but him and his agent. TBay is a quick flight though, and a nice place for friends and family to come and visit in the winter.
I think this comes down to business. Tbay needs to make a decision on what they are willing to spend for 1 player, a very good one (not worth Crosby, Toews or Ovechkin $$). Will that make them better as a whole in the flat cap world?
Will Stamkos accept that if he thinks it is less than what he can get on the open market?
What will the open market be this year? More restraint like last year? Or will 1 GM throw the big money at him? I am going with more restraint. Free agents are like McDonalds, satisfying right away, but you wish you didn’t do it long term. Why would the Leafs do that when they still need a few years and a blue line to be a contender?
He may test it and stay in T Bay.
I would bet he stays at less than we think, but I would not bet much as we really have no idea.
Gonna be a really interesting summer and there will be plenty of surprises.
Yeah Murray has proven nothing. Oh except he won goalie of the year and rookie of the year last year in he AHL as a 20 year ear old. Oh and there was that time he went 305 minutes of game action without being scored on(beating the old record by a lot.). Oh and as a just turned 22 year old rookie he has led his team to the Stanley cup finals and one win away from the cup. Yeah he’s accomplished nothing you’re right. Can’t wait to get rid of him. Letting in a bad goal does not mean he played a bad game. He has not yet played a bad game in the entire playoffs. And that’s with no experience what so ever. We are witnessing the birth of a superstar. But yeah he sucks. No one will ever just give the Penguins props, there’s always some ridiculous catch to no matter what they do.
since you “hear it from those close to the scene” maybe you’d enlighten us as to who exactly. Otherwise, it’s just more “someone said” without any substance attached.
Agreed George. Far too much of these kind of comments on this site. Attach a name or source or just don’t mention it at all. Honestly, it just comes across like someone is trying to add weight to a personal opinion by making such comments. For me personally, it seems to discredit it more than add weight to it.
Sounds like you’re pretty dialed in to the situation, or is it just typical wishful thinking/fantasy coming out of Leaf Nation ?
The only reason Stamkos hasn’t resigned in TB is money. If he demands more than 9 mil per TB lets him go, possibly trading his rights. If he signs for 9 TB can potentially make it work long term with having to make some hard choices when the time comes. I say let him walk & have for a very long time.
If they don’t the 1st thing to do will be to move Bishop. I bridge all players as it allows you to control a players rights longer into UFA status. See Subban in Montreal. Even if a 2 or a 3 year brigdge deal has to pay Kucherov 5 to 6.5 per. Then you lock him up for 8 years. Hedman is & should be Yzerman’s top priority this summer. Your not going into next summer facing the same dilemma with Hedman that your facing with Stamkos today. That’s terrible asset management. I don’t see Hedman getting 9 per nor demanding such but in the top 5 to 10 of current NHL Dman contracts, say 7.5 to 8.
Expansion will get at least 1 if not 2 contracts off the books depending on how many expansion teams are approved; Carle other?, Bishop gets replaced by Vasilevsky & depending upon how Kucherov & Hedman play out TB might be able to make it work or possibly has to expend a Filppula; modified NTC, Killorn or Palat to make work when push comes to shove.
If I’m Yzerman & obviously I’m not, I just trade Stamkos’s rights as soon as able but I also move Bishop as soon as possible. This solves all TB’s cap issue’s & leaves them with still a solid cup contender & following the expansion draft a ton of cap space.
Sorry, why is Hedman so much less expensive than Subban at $9 per? I’m thinking Hedman is actually a more valuable Dman.
Any idea on what trade value Stamkos rights have? I imagine it would involve some conditional clause on him signing.
Best guesses at where he may land outside of TB or TO? I have heard DET and BUF come out. I think Montreal needs to make a move for some high quality offense… not sure if they can pull off Stamkos though.
First of all, Stamkos has a No Movement Clause so the Lightning can’t trade his rights at all unless he agrees to it. Secondly, the rights to pending FA are generally not worth a lot, 4th, 5th round picks kind of thing – maybe Stamkos is worth more.
However, you don’t acquire those rights unless you think that by having his rights and being able to sign him for an 8th year gives you an edge on other teams that would have to sign him to a max 7yr deal in FA.
If you think you’re getting him anyway, you’re not trading much for his rights. If you think you’re in for a shot, but you’re not certain – how could you be given tampering rules? – then you probably don’t pay much either.
I think at this stage, it’s likely he’s going to FA July 1 and he’ll either re-sign with Tampa for a hometown discount / 8 year deal or he signs with the Leafs or whomever for 7 years. I don’t think the rights play into this.
I posted multiple times on this site that Fleury would have to be protected in an expansion draft, even when others sited media reports that argued against me. Nah nah nah nah I told you so! ?
In all seriousness the implications of this for Pittsburgh and Murray are huge. If Fleury wants to stay in Pittsburgh and doesn’t want to loose control of where he might end up he can include only teams that need goal tending, or who have goal tenders that need to be protected, or that have salary cap space, as no trade destinations. There aren’t 12 of those so he should be able to cover all those bases. Then Pittsburgh would have no choice , they would have to trade Murray and Fluery wouldn’t have to worry about losing his starters job.
The big trade rumors this off season will surround Murray. And Pittsburgh ‘s cap situation will mean that the return will have to be picks and prospects. Teams like Arizona, Toronto and Calgary will be competing for Murray.
Murray is not going anywhere, period. They will do whatever they can to make sure of this. Arizona, Calgary and Toronto don’t have the stomach to give up what it would take to get him.
It’s not going to come to that. The writer above says that MAF would be a stick in the mud and try to secure his starter role. Only way he secures a starter role is by being traded as at BEST he platoons next year with Murray. Likely he would be the backup.
MAF isnt a gamer and wouldn’t mess around with that bologna. Worst case scenario is that Pittsburgh buys out his contract… but it wont come to that. Murray is the pens goalie.
Yes you did but not based on the rules in place at the time. Nor will he be a Penguin when expansion roles around & the team that trades for him will be protecting him regardless of his NMC. The NHL is starting to clarify numerous CBA issues & expansion rules & by draft day all should be known & resolved.
Yeah… the expansion draft isnt being done to screw existing teams but to make the expansion team competitive. Situations like this one will be looked at by the league.
It’s still not going to be all that competitive even with these better expansion rules than past expansion drafts. Take the time to go & extrapolate teams players. Most will move the really good players they may be confronted with losing.
Neither Las Vegas or Quebec; in this round of expansion or a year or 2 later, will be competitive in the NHL with in 5 years baring a miracle.
These expansion rules are still incredibly favorable to existing teams especially those that were smart enough to factor this into player personal decisions over the last 2 years not rushing players to the NHL or AHL contracts or trading for players at a high cost they can’t protect coming up or throwing NMC’s around like candy. See Edmonton, Columbus, Minnesota, etc.
These 3 teams have positioned themselves brutally for expansion. Now they are going to have to buy players out & trade players under value to solve the problems they created for themselves.
Stamkos will not be a Lightning after July 1st. Tampa cannot afford what he is demanding and what he deserves. Tampa doesn’t believe that he is worth less than Toews’/Kane’s contract’s cap hit of $10.5M, do they? Because Kane/Toews’ would be the best comparison (non-Cup-wise). When players are in the situation as Stamkos, it’s time to get paid. As he was seeing other players get more than him (cap-wise) throughout the years, Tampa should know that it’s his turn to get paid.
Imagine everyone in here, all having a job in the same industry. Would you ask/demand a hefty raise, when other have gotten just that, while you were producing better than them for a good length of time? In reality, yes, we all would, because it would be fair. But I’ll see many of you in here, say otherwise, just because.
Totally agree, I can’t see any where in the world that Yzerman can afford to hold on to Stamkos. Even if Yzerman can say trade Bishop (NMC), Filppula and even buys out Carle. There’s Stamkos that will at least command around $9 million per plus Hedman possibly another $9 million per and Kucherov that will command at least another $7 million per that’s $25 million combined for those 3 player. And what about Palat, Johnson and Drouin in 2017 when they need big contracts just don’t see how Yzerman can keep a bulk of this team together just no way. And i seriously doubt that Stamkos will accept $9 million per when he can easily get around $10.5-11M per for 7 years from Toronto or Buffalo or New Jersey and possibly Detroit if Ken Holland can move Datsyuk’s contract to a cap floor team like Arizona or Carolina. It will be interesting where Stamkos winds up pretty sure 100% that it wont be in Tampa though.
Yeah, but as much as I’d like for Stammer to be a Leaf, I want Shanny/Lou to stick to their guns and keep to this proper rebuild. Stammer will/would force the Leafs to go back to their old ways…bandaiding the team. The only way I would be pleased in a situation like this, is if they can somehow land Frederik Andersen from Anaheim. Because if they’re going to do something significant like landing Stamkos, they need to back that up with a legit #1 goaltender. Then they’re stuck trying to find a trading partner for Kadri and Bozak, unless they move Kadri to wing and trade Bozak. If they can do that, the roster will look something like this:
JvR – Stamkos – Nylander
Marner – Matthews – Kadri
Komarov – Laich – Lupul
Greening – Boyes – Michalek
——————————
Rielly – Gardiner
Hunwick – Zaitsev
Marincin – Corrado
——————————
Andersen
Bibeau/Sparks
With that said, the Leafs would have to pull off some more magic. I’m obviously a horrible arm-chair GM, but I would try:
To Toronto: Andersen
To Anaheim: Pit’s 1st + Kapanen + Bernier ($2M retained)
To Carolina: Bozak ($1.5M retained)
To Toronto: 50th overall pick (via NYR)
Then re-sign Boyes to a 2 year, $2M ($1M annually) contract.
I am with you Bill. i just don’t see him as a $10M/year man.
Agree that he may leave. The one thing I would say that TB will do with some certainty and that is sign Hedman. It also makes sense to not pay too much for Bishop when you have a good alternative for less. What I am not so sure about is whether he will keep Kucherov or Johnson over Stamkos.
Depends what they expect these players will want.
If he can get Stamkos for a reasonable amount, he can move the others for good assets.
If Stamkos want over 9, go with the other guys. If he will take less, keep him and move the other piece(s) for assets.
TB has good taxes, a very good team, and the market isn’t full of good teams to go to that have the cap room.
A case can be made for him staying in TB.
Tough to fit Stammer in with the cap issues TB will have. I’d much rather have Hedman on my team if I had to choose.
I could buy Stammer at $10M/year, if he had lead the Bolts to a Cup – he hasn’t, nor was he their most important player in last year’s Cup run.
I can see Stamkos resigning in TB and taking the $9M/year for 7 years. Bolts have young talent and a GM able to make a deal if he needs to. Of the teams mentioned, Tampa Bay is the closest to winning a Stanley Cup.
I would like to the see the list of teams willing to offer Stamkos a $10M/year for 7 years – and have it be a team that he would want to go to.
I am still trying to figure out what, besides getting drafted firt overall warrants Stamkos to garnish equal or more money than Toews/kane who HAVE won the Silver cup. Now, if you want to tell me that Stamkos prefers not being a winger for John Cooper, I see a move. But if you simply look at the TB roster (even if there IS a subtraction of Bishop, who was banged up two playoffs in row, when he needed to show he was a prime-time playoff winner) and you see there are the best option for Steven to win a Cup.
I am not trying to denegrate the terrific re-organization in Toronto or the smurfs they drafted, but a move even for that extra million or so, isn’t an “add water & stir” remedy or path to the Cup Finals. Steven, a very unassuming guy, most weigh all the fcators of “coming home” and the times he is going to have a ,mike shoved in his face, asking HIM to be the spokesman or the revival for QUITE some years.
I am just saying…all these fellas want to win it. All these guys want to make the large salaries. And no matter what anybody’s opinion may be, this seems a ot to decide at this juncture for Steven.
Bill, there are no Leaf fans claiming that Stamkos is going to magically take the team to a Cup when they have no starting goalie and no elite defenders… Even the talented wingers in the system, with the exception of JVR, are prospects/young players at this stage.
As for Stamkos, I have heard reports that he wants to be the star player on his team, wants the spotlight on him. Toronto could be perfect for him in a few years when the rest of the roster matures and fills in with prospects coming up.
I think that the bigger problem is that he’s not a great fit for Toronto – he’ll cost a fortune to sign and he’ll be coming out of his window of prime playing years as the team comes into contention. Assuming everything goes well.
If the expansion rules are correct Fleury will either be traded or Pitts negotiates with said expansion team not to take, but if two expansion teams he’ll be trade.
If Tampa can only afford one of Stamkos or Hedman for me the answer is Hedman. The lightning have the fire power to cover for most of Stamkos but there would be a big hole in the back end if you let Hedman walk.
Is nobody going to mention the addition of M. Savard to the Nj Devils? This should be an exciting time. I personally can’t wait to see Savard suit up!!! He should have a huge impact in the lineup!!!! Now if they could just find a way to add Pronger and Horton, the will challenge for the east! May want to put in a call to the wild to figure out if Harding is available. Just for insurance at back up.
It’s nice to see the cba/cap has done amazing things to avoid bs deals in the league!
I posted this in the news section.
No team has ever had any issue’s making the cap floor with the players that actually played for them. NJ isn’t taking Savard’s cap hit to make the floor. When the season starts NJ’s player cap hits will exceed the floor by significantly more than Savard’s cap hit. They took Savard as they got a 2nd round pick in 2018 to do so & had the room to do so comfortably.
For those of you that didn’t think Detroit would have to pay at least a 2nd to move Datsyuk. Guess again. Although Savard actually carries a 500K salary next season, Datsyuk will be paid nothing if his contract is mutually terminated but his 7.5 cap hit stays & it will cost Detroit more than Flo just paid NJ to do so. Nothing significant but something. I still say a player like Jurco or Pulkkinen & a 2nd.
Bob mackenzie said if fla had to give up a second to get rid of savards contract he figures Detroit will have to give up atleast a first to move datsyuk
I agree, and I think they’re better off just keeping Datsyuk’s contract. Detroit should take a few steps back and restock their cupboards, not trade futures so they can afford high priced free agents.
I’m not sure. Savard definately created a minimum, but I still see a second being in the right range… as you said, it is actually costing Jersey 500,000. Pavel’s will cost the team nothing in actual salary. I think they end up being comparable.
Lyle.
Is the 8 skater option out now?
I read an interesting point on another site. Murray’s contract will be up for renewal after next season. What if pens sign him to a full no movement clause to ensure they have to protect him. What if teams have 2 goalies on Full no movement clauses?
Interesting point. If I had to make an assumption I would say the NHL wouldn’t allow the NMC in Murray’s contract. These issues will all be resolved soon enough & certainly before expansion.
Wouldn’t allow? Smells like a lawsuit there if the players agent is barred from getting the best deal for his guy.
I would think in the scenario of 2 goalies having NMCs the team is told you can only protect one. Would love to see it happen to make the NHL squirm.
The Lightning would not trade Stamkos rights first. They would allow a team to talk to Stamkos then if he agreed to go to the team he would waive the NMC because he would agree to sign with the new team. and then be traded for a price agreed to beforehand. Same result as trading his rights but a specific order to accomplish the same thing.
MAF has a proven record and some control of his movement. Why would he agree to a trade? If Murray is going to be a RFA it doesn’t matter if he is signed at the expansion draft. As stated here by someone if Pits gives him a no movement clause the league would not allow it and penalize them. Having a hot playoff does not guarantee he is bona fide starter. Think all the way back to the “miracle on ice”. What kind of career did Craig have? There are other examples but right now I am having a senior’s moment so I cant give out names.
If Stamkos signs with TO he is not going to get more money overall then from Tampa but the contract may be front loaded so he gets most of the money up front. In TO the endorsement possibilities will be unlimited. In regard to the rest of the Leafs roster I don’t think Bozak will be there and there is a good possibility that Hunwick, Lupul, Robidas and/or Laich will be moved out one way or another. If they cant get someone like Murray, Vasiliev, Samsonoff (Wash), Korpisalo or Koskinen (NYI) they might as run with Bernier until the right deal comes up. I don’t see Boyes coming back. Maybe Parenteau? I think the opening day roster will look something like the following:
JVR-Stamkos or Bozak-Brown
Soshnikov-Kadri-Marner
Komorov-Matthews-Nylander
Lievo-Greening-Hyman
(two of; Michalik-Laich-Holland-Parenteau-Lupul)
Reilly-Zhaisev
Gardner-Carrick
Hunwick-Marincin
(one of;Corrado-Percy-Valiev)
Bernier
(one of;Sparks-Bibeau)
Why would someone trade for Shattenkirk before trying to sign Yandle?
Hedman is worth PK money at least.
This is my attempt to address all the things mentioned in the comments today?
If the league punished a player for getting the best contract he can and discriminates against him based on an expansion draft you can bet lawyers are involved. There are no rules in place I can think of maximizing the amount of NMC a team can have.
from a poster at THN , dont know if this is true but he says
Players aren’t eligible for a no-movement clause until after they have reached unrestricted free agent eligibility (age 27 or 7 accrued season
As I check this out at general Fanager I see Landeskog has a NTC ? Wondering how that works ??
capfriendly gave me the answer his NTC kicks in after year 7.
good lookin yank. does it apply to NMC? I believe Murray will be with the pens for years. The NMC would be one way Trading MAF to a team where he is the starter and could continue to challenge for winningest goalie ever (could be number 2 IMO) would be another (he would be likely be willing to waive NMC for that)or worst case senario buying him out after this season. That would suck for pens but they seem committed to Murray now.
it looks like the same applies.
Is Stamkos worth $10 million a year? I think he will end up in Toronto becuase if he really wanted to stay in Tampa he would have taken a tiny bit less and signed already…
I’m a huge Penguins fan and I’m so happy they are Stanley Cup champions. The Murray/ Fluery goalie situation is tough but they will do whats best for Marc Andre Fluery (and if he wants to go) they will send him to a team that he wants…he deserves that much.. He had a great regular season, is only 31 and can really help a team…Dallas, Calgary, VANCOUVER. MINNESOTA somewhere out west… LOL Looks like Murray will be the guy going forward.