A look at possible moves by the San Jose Sharks and Toronto Maple Leafs in your NHL rumor mill.
POSSIBLE SHARKS TRADE CANDIDATES
Could the San Jose Sharks try to move Patrick Marleau?
CSN BAY AREA: With the San Jose Sharks adding Mikkel Boedker and David Schlemko via free agency, they’re now close to the salary-cap ceiling. Kevin Kurz recently suggested one or more current members of the roster could be moved before training camp. Forwards Tommy Wingels, Matt Nieto, Patrick Marleau and defensemen Brenden Dillon and Mirco Mueller could become trade candidates.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Wingels, Nieto and Mueller could be the likely trade candidates. Marleau still has a year left on his contract with a $6.66 million annual cap hit and a full no-movement clause. If he gets traded next season, my guess is it’ll be at the trade deadline when most of his salary has been paid out.
Dillon has four seasons on his contract at an annual cap hit of $3.275 million. His struggles during the 2016 Stanley Cup Final could hurt his trade value.
WHAT NEXT FOR THE MAPLE LEAFS?
TORONTO SUN: Noting how the Maple Leafs were able to shed over $23 million in supposedly untradeable contracts (Phil Kessel, Dion Phaneuf, David Clarkson and Jonathan Bernier), Steve Simmons wonders how they’ll make forward Joffrey Lupul’s $5.25 million annual salary-cap hit disappear.
If Leafs GM Lou Lamoriello doesn’t trade for a backup goalie to replace the now-departed Bernier, Simmons notes Joni Ortio, Anders Lindback and Jhonas Enroth are still available.
If Lou succeeds in shedding Lupul without taking on a significant cap hit, and considering what he’s already accomplished, we should start calling him David Copperfield.
Lou has done a very good job. If only he could of been hired earlier and not have Kyle Dubas make dome very questionable trades at the 2015 draft.
What I have to wonder is, what was his reaction to the overkill surrounding the wooing of Stamkos, as also reported in Simmons column today. If he is to be believed – and I realize there will be some doubt about that among some Leafs fans – the team met him with a host of executives that included the bleeding mayor!, thereby giving the implication that that circus was just a small example of the kind of fawning adoration that would follow if he signed. According to Simmonds, he turned to his companions and sad “no more meetings – I want to call Stevie Y now …”
Somehow, I can’t see Lamoriello being a willing party to that overwhelming scene. It will also be interesting to see if he discards his long-standing policy of not giving bonuses to rookies where Mathews is concerned. If he breaks his policy for him, what about Marner?
Lou values Babcock and Hunter. He will listen to their opinions. He won’t be influenced by the public show you have referenced or the new age statistics.
“According to Simmonds,”
Good lord Simmons belongs at TMZ, the man is a hack and thats a compliment
But that begs the question, WHO was responsible for that circus?
Doogie Howser just doesn’t compare to Lou!
“But that begs the question, WHO was responsible for that circus?”
So you like to know who’s responsible for the circus? Clowns of course! You come to this site and see everyday clowns speculate, write it as the word, and a magnitude of people blindly believing the words of these “insiders” as good and refusing to logically see fault because it supports their own unjustified narrative.
That wasn’t intended as an opening for your rant. But feel free. What I was getting at is – Simmons aside – that circus DID take place with umpteen executives associated with the Leafs along with the mayor fawning all over Stamkos – and if that indeed was what gave him pause for thought, WHO organized the thing if Lou wasn’t involved? Shanahan? Somebody had to set it up and if that, indeed, told Stamkos he didn’t want any part of that fish-bowl atmosphere, then that person needs to calm things down where future UFAs are concerned.
The only trades Dubois made at the draft; if responsible for any of them, were acquiring Marincin for a 4th, Hyman for McKegg & turning 24 into 29 & 61, then turning 29 into 34 & 68.
Not sure what’s wrong with any of that.
Player personal decissions are not made by anyone person in 1 organization any longer & haben’t been for some time. Historicly the GM had final authority but in todays NHL the President in many organizations has the final say now.
Sorry Dubas.
How about trading down instead of picking koneckny
I really liked the trade down. I think we often make the mistake of over valuing some prospects after the top 10-15 and think they are sure fire, but honestly every pick after a certain point is a lottery ticket. Some of them turn out some don’t.
If you have faith in your scouting department you give them as many picks as you can in the right range.
15-30 typically are only slightly more valuable than 2nds. So going from 15-30 to get a high 2nd and two high 3rda is a good deal to me.
I’ve given up trying to judge how a team drafts while they are doing it because honestly a good scouting team still has less than 50% of their picks work out and that 1000’s of combined hours of watching those players. Hard to make judgment on that.
What I do like is playing odds.
For every time you trade up or keep a late 1st and get say a eberle out of that late first, there are plenty of time that you could have gotten a Gibson and Rakell, instead of Tyler Biggs.
What dumb trades did Dubas make? He’s only an assistant gm. He hasn’t made any trades…
I hope they just stay with the status quo till training camp… Joffrey is a good guy but with unfortunate luck! He still brings skill and experience as long as he is top 6 minutes.
We have Laich, Michalek, Hunwick and Greening that can be traded for picks and assets and Lupul’s contract will also be cheaper next year (higher cap though)
Plus I say let them compete for spots this season ( no entitlement ). Auston is probably not ready yet, same as Marner and Nylander -though he did play 22 games.
I think if we sign someone like Jimmy Vesey then anything is possible. We still need to ice a team and not be tanking for a lottery pick, my opinion only??
Antony I’m cool with letting Lupul play another year, he’s a good vet and plays well when healthy. We have the cap room so there’s no rush to buy him out, he also has zero trade value. I’m ok with him playing another year and if he plays well trade him, if not then buy him out next year.
All the heavy lifting has been accomplished and the next several years will be to assemble the pieces.
I am baffled with the draft this year though? Hunter seemed like he was check mated and certain favours called in !
@antoni not taking a dmen with the 2nd Rd pick is the one that baffled me?
@Durt – what capspace?
I’m I missing something or is TML over the cap limit with less players than needed to register before the season opens? 17 players + buyouts and such at 75m caphit.
Adoe the Leafs have 3.5 million in space with a backup goalie, holland and three RFA defencmen to resign. Since we can’t ice 9 defencemen, we’ll lose 1 or two of those RFA dmen to waivers or they’ll play in the minors. Assuming Holland gets 1 mil and a backup costs .9, we can easily fit the other one or two RFAs with the 1.7-1.8 million left. There’s no urgency to move Lupul. It’ll probably cost us assets right now if we do, so what’s the point? He fits under the cap, and even if we sign Vesey we can always move a smaller contract to fit him in instead.
Ok! Either I must read nhlnumbers wrong or I don’t have the complete picture on how it works – i would not be suprised if I didn’t have a good understanding of this. I just read the numbers and assumed that if status quo before the season start – they’re at 75 m and 6 players to register aswell.
All good adoe.
Hahaha I agree.
Really like what TML have done during this rebuild. Worst concern must be Hortons contract in case the rebuild takes quicker steps than anticipated.
The other ‘bad’ contract should run it’s course in due time. It looks like too me atleast.
Enroth should be a solid choice with decent caphit.
Horton wont be an issue at all.
First off Toronto has something like 10 players who are to be UFAs by 2018 totally over $35M. The replacements would be ELC players.
If by chance Toronto wanted to be a competitive team in 19/20 when Matthes starts his second contract, they will still have a bunch of ELC players that they could LTIR Horton and then recall the ELCs against the LTIR.
I think I’m in the minority here but I really think Bernier will bounce back nicely this year. He really started playing well from January on, and consistently played really well since. I guess we’ll see. I just like the way he plays, very quick and athletic. I honestly think his bad play in 2015 came down to a lack of confidence. After he shook that off he was pretty good.
If you look at the stats of Anderson and bernier over 125 games they are pretty similar I don’t think Anderson will excel the first couple of yrs with the leafs defense the way it is
Statistics aside, if you just look at how they play the difference is quite stark. Bernier is playing himself out of the league if he doesn’t pick up his play. At the same time, Anderson is rising among the ranks and now getting a chance at no1.
You also have to look at the team in which they played that way
A .908 SV% playing for the worst team in the NHL seems pretty good to me. Nothing wrong with Bernier other than having to spend 3 years playing for a terrible team in Toronto & before Toronto positioned themselves to be the worst team in the NHL last season he had SV%’s the previous 2 years of .912 & .923 playing behind a bad team.
if he gets 50 shots a game it wont be pretty
I think Bernier is better than he showed and could bounce back, but not likely in Toronto. One of those deals that is just better for everyone involved.
I don’t think Anderson will struggle too much in his first season. Babcock’s system had cut down on the leafs shots againat and odd man rushes against considerably. Even with less talent. I also think expectation needs to be realistic though. He is not being paid as an elite goalie. He needs to be slightly above average to be a fair value. That’s it. I think Babs and company have done a great job managing expectations.
I even think having as many young players as they do will help. Chances are someone is impressive right out is the gate. Gives the media something to talk about. Likely takes some pressure off whichever young guy struggles a little. Kadri and Schenn didn’t have that with the leafs. They were both the one and only savior prospect at the time.
I think Phil Kessel and Pittsburgh Penguins were also happy that Toronto was able shed most of Kessel contract except $1.2m per season.
I have to say, I’m a little amazed at what Lou has done. On the other hand his track record in the cap era has been overall not very good. He drove the Devils into the ground. It will be intersesting to see how it plays out in the future.
I don’t think trading Kessel was a real accomplishment. Maybe he was slightly overpaid . But I don’t think there was a shortage of interest for his services either.
This is a total group effort in Toronto. Shanahan right through Babcock all have input into player personal decissions. This isn’t just low but dobois, hunter scouting etc.
Disagree-everything Lou had done in the past has been a 1 man show. Except scouting, He handed over scouting to david conte, just like he has done with hunter.
Kyle dubus has no influence or say in decisions
& you know this because?
@striker I have to say it and you know this how? ?
I was on a flight sitting next to Lou, hand he opened up and told me so.
Why are you amazed nyr4life for what lou has done when moveing contracts in todays nhl is easy,look at detroit and dats contract,arizona called them and took it to move 1 spot in the draft,really hard to move that one.Putting a winning team on the ice might prove a little more of a challenge.Wait 3 years and then be amazed if he does that!
The more I think about it, I’m less and less impressed. Moving Kessel and holding a little bit of salary as I said , wasn’t really that hard. Moving Phaneuf, and taking a lot of bad money back also isn’t very impressive. Moving Clarkson, for a dead contract wasn’t exactly Gm Magic. Bernier may be really the only move of significance to date. And even that cost 2 million of actual money.
I hate to do this, but I’m doing a total 180, flip flop here. Lou is not really amazing at all.
Lou wasn’t the Gm when Clarkson was traded …. I think? No more drunken posts for me!
I’ve another technical question about caphit and the actual money being paid.
I know that most teams withhold salary because of the caphit the trade partner wants – like Kessel and the 1,2 in relief pitts probably wanted and needed. But in theory could you deal a player to a team and keep paying the whole sum but zero of the cap hit? Just in order to get rid of the contract against the cap.
No it doesn’t work like that
Teams can eat no more than 1/2 a players salary & can only be retaining salary for a maximum of 3 players at 1 time.
Marleau will not be traded. He’s still a 25 goal scorer who plays anywhere in the top 9 be it LW or center. From a franchise point of view, think it would be nice to have a 500 goal scorer begin and end his career as a Shark.
Kurz seems to have a fixation on trading Marleau.
I just don’t see Marleau leaving the Sharks this coming season.
And I expect him to play another couple of years (on a much cheaper contract, or few) until he retires.
Bernier will do good else where.
This year is not a tank year. More talented players will bring better results. They probably won’t make the playoffs this year but will improve. They have Greening, Laich, Michalik, Hunwick, Polak and possibly Lupul to move at the deadline? That is just about twenty million that will be replaced by ELCs. If Lupul can play 40 games he would be worth keeping for another year?
Traveres and Seguin are now Leaf fan dreams for the next couple of years. I am a Leaf fan but I don’t expect either to come to TO. I think we dodged a bad situation with Stamkos. maybe by the time the Leafs are competitive Pits will try to trade Kessell back. That is enough goofy Leaf rumours for to day
Wonder if Murray would trade Fowler and Ritchie for JVR, Corrado and a pick? Gives both teams pretty well what they want going forward. This is not agoodprospect left winger this is an established young proven veteran. Oilers got hosed on the Larson deal. Lou won’t.
Murray wouldn’t move Fowler for JVR, Corrado & a pick never mind adding Ritchie.
Go look at Anaheim’s cap space & actually salary costs for next season.
Anaheim won’t want a player back making JVR monies nor facing UFA status so soon.
Unless he moves another Dman like Despres or Stoner as well to free up more cap space.
Very curious to see what Murray has planned.
what are you smoking? Fowler is not even enough for JVR on his own. a smallish dman with ok numbers? Please.
I’d like to see the Penguins offer a 1 year, 2 way deal to Lindback or Ortio.
Might need a backup if/when they trade Fleury.
No need to do anything with Lupul. Tons of salary cleared and lots of young guys looking at part time roster spots if Lupul gets hurt. I am not sure, but if the Leafs are not near the cap then Nathan Horton counts as one of the contracts.rather than using his injury for cap relief.
I may be wrong, but thought I read it.
Capfriendly shows Toronto with a little over 5 mil in cap space with 4 players to sign, trade or promote before opening day when they can place Horton, Cowen & Robidas on LTIR. Until then all 3 count against the cap & 23 man roster that must be submitted the day before the season starts.
Toronto still has 4 RFA’s to sign Corrado, Marincin, Holland; heading to arbitration & Sparks. All but Sparks need to clear waivers to be sent down.
Teams can exceed the cap by 10% in the off season but must be cap & roster; 23 man, the day before the season starts. Baring trades Toronto has virtually no wiggle room until opening day when again the can get LTIR relief.
I expect Lupul to be playing for Las Vegas after expansion.
No WAY an expansion team wastes a pick on a guy that expensive who is always one step from going back on the injury list. Why would they when there’ll be younger players to choose from each franchise? And, IF they decide they want the odd veteran in the mix I’m sure there will be more enticing choices than Lupul.
Lupul will be out of hockey in a year if that long.
Lou said Lupol is on starting day roster as reported a few days ago
I believe he said very curtly that he was still a part of the team…for now. They would have already bought him out but he failed the physical.
Lupul may go to Vegas, the only reason I can think of is cap floor. Also I believe Lou does not have total control in decisions. No way Shanahan would agree to that when he was hired. Dubus has a say in things, he is the GM in waiting. Bernier will do better this year like Reimer did last.
Has anyone ever really struggled to meet the cap floor? I think that’s something often talked about, but never really happens. With the endless possibilities to teams wanting to rid themselves of problematic contracts, and players that will be forced to expose players because of other players nmx’s . I think there’s a zero chance Lupal gets Any intersest from Vegas.
Oops” nmc’s” I gotta stop drinking and typing!!
@nyr your right the cap floor is never really in question and Vegas won’t have a problem either no way an expansion team takes a chance on an injury prone player like lupul when they won’t have too
No they haven’t nor will Las Vegas. They’ll take big contracts of players who’s only real faults are their contracts not necessarily their abilities. Las Vegas isn’t taking Lupul off Toronto’s hands unless paid handsomely to do so.
They will also be serious bidders in next summers UFA market. With a ton of available cap space. Meeting the floor won’t be the slightest issue. They will do what NYI did to acquire Boychuk & Leddy, Florida to acquire Smith, Carolina to acquire Teravainen etc. Taking a contract a team doesn’t want but being well paid to do so.
Only way lupul gets moved is if he has a strong season and he leafs are willing to eat some money (probably half) to mitigate the risk. I mean if he scores 20 goals, plays 70+ games then a team might be willing to take him for 2.75M as long as they aren’t giving up anything. Given that he will be owed less than his cap hit that might work. But realistically that’s asking a lot. Look how many season lupul has in his 20’s with 70+ games and 20+ goals. So not something I would hold my breath on.
Agreed
the only vegas takes lupul is if toronto pays vegas to select him by sending draft picks to vegas. and toronto would rather try and convince them to take horton first
im not at all impressed with what toronto has done, theres no reason to be….theyve tanked for several seasons, used their money to buy their way out of bad deals. and bought draft picks by taking on others mistakes……all perfectly legal mind you. but any person not a total idiot could do that. therefore I dont see why people say its impressive
the only difference between toronto and say edmonton is that toronto has virtually unlimited funds to pay their way and others out of mistakes…..they are the rangers of the north
Look at NJ and Arizona. Cap hits include Datsyuk and Savard.
Vegas needs some salary tied up in old vets as I expect them to grab a lot of players that are younger with less salary. Not saying it will happen but Lupul fits the bill.
no it doesnt, look at it from vegas point of view they want players that can help them and they want to save cap space to use it to leverage other teams into giving them better players….why take expensive useless Lupul for free when they could take Flippula and tampa would give them a 2nd instead.
theyd be silly to take lupul…..their gonna use the draft to gain assets bot now and in the future
@yankee go do the expansions draft process on generalfanger and you will see why they won’t need to add capspace ?
The shreds of Phil Kessel’s “untradeable” contract were voluminous enough to fill the Penguins’ Stanley Cup. Simmons is still crucifying Kessel long after the stone has been rolled back from the entrance to his tomb..
Detroit Red Wings fans, want to play the trade proposal game with a Ducks fan?
As a Ducks fan, I am interested in Tomas Tatar, Gustav Nyquist, Andreas Athanasiou, Anthony Mantha, and Riley Sheahan. I want the Ducks to get either Tatar or Nyquist, and then one of the other three guys.
The Ducks offer would start with Cam Fowler, and then if you want pieces to choose from to add to Fowler in a counter-offer, other pieces up for discussion would be the Ducks 2017 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, Nick Ritchie, Max Jones, Sam Steel, Marcus Pettersson who starred on Team Sweden at the last WJCs, Nick Kerdiles, Julius Nattinen, Simon Despres, and Andrew Cogliano.
I don’t see Ducks GM Bob Murray having the creativity to really use multiple trade pieces in one deal, but Fowler is a very valuable piece, especially in this market, and with a 1st round pick next year, two 1st round picks just used on Max Jones and Sam Steel, the former 10th overall pick in Nick Ritchie, and all the other pieces I mentioned at his disposal, he definitely has a lot of value to work with, so I hope a trade like this could get done.
Let me know what it would take from a realistic Red Wings fan point of view to get Tatar or Nyquist, plus one of Athanasiou, Mantha, or Sheahan, in a deal for Fowler plus some of the assets I mentioned.
There’s no way the Ducks trade Ritchie or Jones, they are Duck style players. I also don’t think say Tatar and Sheahan are worth Fowler plus anything more than a second. If they gave up Fowler and Ritchie or Despres for Tatar and Sheahan the Ducks lose that trade. Should just be Tatar and a second for Fowler.
Well I don’t really want Sheahan that much. What about Tatar and Athanasiou or Mantha? That’s what I really want. I’d add Ritchie to do that because he’s looked slow for the Ducks so far.
As for them being Ducks style players, maybe that’s the problem. The “Ducks style” is outdated and hasn’t had any playoff success in nearly a decade. Maybe if they traded some of their “Ducks style” prospects for some “Penguins style” forwards like Tatar and Athanasiou, they’d be a better team, and isn’t that the goal?
Sorry typoed my username the first time I tried to post this.
Well I don’t really want Sheahan that much. What about Tatar and Athanasiou or Mantha? That’s what I really want. I’d add Ritchie to do that because he’s looked slow for the Ducks so far.
As for them being Ducks style players, maybe that’s the problem. The “Ducks style” is outdated and hasn’t had any playoff success in nearly a decade. Maybe if they traded some of their “Ducks style” prospects for some “Penguins style” forwards like Tatar and Athanasiou, they’d be a better team, and isn’t that the goal?