Latest on the Blues and Blackhawks – August 20, 2016

by | Aug 20, 2016 | Rumors | 56 comments

Are the St. Louis Blues undervaluing Kevin Shattenkirk?

Are the St. Louis Blues undervaluing Kevin Shattenkirk?

 More speculation on a Kevin Shattenkirk deal and guessing on what moves the Chicago Blackhawks will make after losing out in the Jimmy Vesey sweepstakes.

STLTODAY.COM: During a recent live chat, Jeremy Rutherford was asked what forward the St. Louis Blues might package with defenseman Kevin Shattenkirk to land a forward such as New York Rangers winger Rick Nash. Noting the salary-cap hits of Shattenkirk ($4.25 million), Rutherford believes it’ll have to be a player earning $3.5 million to offset Nash’s $7.8 million cap hit. He suggests Patrik Berglund or Jori Lehtera would have to be included.

NBC SPORTS: Jame O’Brien believes the Blues would make a big mistake by trading Shattenkirk, suggesting it would be considered a panic move. He feels Blues management is underestimating Shattenkirk’s value. While Shattenkirk’s UFA status next summer is a concern, O’Brien notes the Blues could still fit him in under next season’s cap. It could be a tight squeeze but possible, especially if they opt not to re-sign oft-injured left wing Alexander Steen. 

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Cap space was the biggest concern for the Blues, but their decision to left David Backes and Troy Brouwer depart via free agency this summer somewhat alleviates that problem for 2017-18. I doubt they’ll offer up a significant pay raise on a long-term extension for Steen. If he won’t accept a two- or three-year deal worth a little less than his current $5.8 million annual cap hit, the Blues could let him go and use the savings on Shattenkirk. The Blues have two rising stars in left wings Jared Schwartz and Robby Fabbri, who could push Steen down the depth chart this season.

As for a Shattenkirk trade, I think that window has already closed. GM Doug Armstrong recently said he expected Shattenkirk will be with them to start the season and possibly beyond. While he could consider moving the rearguard before the start of the upcoming season, I think he’ll evaluate Shattenkirk’s performance through 2016-17. 

CSN CHICAGO: With the Chicago Blackhawks losing out to the New York Rangers in the Jimmy Vesey sweepstakes, Charlie Roumeliotis notes they still have sufficient cap space to add one more forward via free agency if they wish. One option is winger Jiri Hudler. Another could be Tomas Fleischmann, though he fizzled out after joining the Blackhawks in a late-season trade in 2015-16.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: I can see GM Stan Bowman looking at Hudler, provided he’s willing to accept an affordable one-year deal. The Hawks have around $2.4 million in cap space, but I doubt Hudler will accept anything below $2 million. I doubt Bowman will bring back Fleischmann. Brandon Pirri could be a better, younger option. 







56 Comments

  1. I don’t see NY trading for Shattenkirk. They would have to somehow move Girardi for it to make any sense. And I don’t foresee that happening anytime soon. If NY is so in love with Shattenkirk or vice versa , let him hit the open market next year. I’m positive Klein will be lost in expansion draft. Then it makes a little more sense.

    • I agree Klein would the Ranger taken by Las Vegas,

      A chance on Wiz still makes sense to me but would come at the expense of Rath sitting(he might with Holden anyways…)

      • Mcilrath I don’t think has a real chance of making NY full time this year. And if he doesn’t play about 1/2 the season, his career in NY is over.

      • Holden wasn’t brought in to sit. He will be a regular on the 3rd pairing & most likely pair with Skjei being his safety net.

        He played as Colorado’s #4 the last 2 seasons, a late bloomer & part of the new breed of Dman carving out roles in the NHL.

        McDonaugh, Girardi.
        Staal, Klein.
        Holden, Skjei.
        Spares. McIlrath, Clendening.

        Skjei will sit occasionally getting McIlrath some starts but baring injuries which always happen not a regular, plays the same role as last season & Clendening is purely insurance. Borderline NHL Dman who you can justify keeping on your roster but only playing if absolutely necessary.

      • Is there anything on the books that would prevent the Rangers from trading with Las Vegas? Wondering if it’s a possibility to trade them Girardi for “Future Considerations,” which includes a promise to not draft Klein. The likeliness of this happening, even if possible, is low, but it’s a curious option. Admittedly I know very little of how the expansion draft operates.

      • When the expansion draft happens teams can strike deals with Vegas as long ss they don’t cicumvent existing rules so your scenario is possible.

    • I wouldn’t be so sure Klein is the player selected. He’ll be 32 this Dec & only have 1 year remaining on his deal.

      As NYR is currently constructed they will be exposing a good young forward I asssume. Staal & Girardi both have NMC’s & long term deals so unless they wive their rights to be exposed they & Mcdonaugh are the keepers at D.

      7 forwards need to be protected out of Nash, Stepan, Zuccarello, Kreider, Miller, Zibanejad, Fast & Lindberg. Other than Nash I’m taking anyone of those forwards before Klein who will be almost 33 shortly after the season starts following expansion with only 1 year to UFA status.

      • NY isn’t leaving Stepan,Zuccarello,Kreider,Zbad or Miller unprotected. Fast and Lindberg possibly, but I doubt both. So you can scratch them off the list of free pickens. I don’t think Vegas is going to find a plethora of young talented d-men available to them. I honestly would rather lose Lindberg, or Fast to Vegas than Klein. Regardless of his age. That leaves Girardi and…….? on the right side. I seriously think Klein will be the victim.

      • I would prefer to have a young forward like Fast or Lindberg who’s salary & UFA status are in my control for years than a Dman that will be 33 come the December of the season we start play & with only 1 year until a UFA status. Klein is a decent #4 Dman with a good contract but age & contract staus keep him in NYR.

        There will be a ton of similiar Dman available but younger with longer term contracts & more years to UFA status than having to take Klein.

      • Lindberg was thought to be on his last chance to make the team last year. Started out great but fizzled out just as fast. I don’t think he’ll survive another year in NY without significant improvement.

        I think both he and Mcilrath are on their last shot in Ny. And with Lindberg out to start the season, and Mcilrath having a snowballs chance in hell as a full timer… I think both could be left unprotected.

      • “I wouldn’t be so sure Klein is the player selected. He’ll be 32 this Dec & only have 1 year remaining on his deal.”

        Well said. I’ve tried to find articles about a projected expansion draft roster from people who supposedly know their stuff, but have only found projected teams that are laughable and unrealistic. What GM in their right mind would take seven to nine 30-32 y/o name recognizable guys, either in their UFA year or saddled with long term contracts with onerous AAV (albatross contracts)? It won’t happen. The Las Vegas team will be younger than people seem to think. They won’t go for all the former captains, and former stars saddled with large contracts that teams don’t want anymore, hence exposing thme to the draft. There is no value in picking old for Las Vegas going forward. LV won’t have a sniff at winning the SC in the first couple of years, and the GM knows it. Any picks will follow that logic.

        If anyone could point me towards a webpage with a realistic fantasy expansion draft, I’d appreciate it.

      • I’ll bet ( $1 American dollar) Vegas will not be a young team. They’re going to have to take what their given. Maybe they aren’t settling for the terrible contracts out there, but they sure as hell aren’t getting handed the Ekblads, Subbans, Drouins etc. either. That roster will be filled with the unwanted players of the league with a few decent players sprinkled in. Welcome to Vegas Hartnell, Klein, Etc.!

      • No….teams will protect their very best if they can but Las Vegas will probably have the most talented expansion team in NHL history. I agree it will be older.

  2. So shatter kirk rumours are the reward for ending the Vesey saga. That should make people happy. Haha

  3. Let’s not talk about Shattenkirk. It will be a long time before he is traded. Maybe not even at the deadline 6 -7 months from now…….I hope Johnny takes a bit of a discount. A hair more than Monahan and a hair less than Gio

    • Johnny will take his 7 million per

  4. I think Montreal should be looking to acquire Shattenkirk. Now that they have Weber that would give them a great defense to keep building around. Not that I analyzed it very much it’s just a thought that popped in my head!

  5. In late breaking news, the Toronto Maple Leafs have reportedly fired scout Jim Vesey and placed prospect Nolan Vesey on waivers.

    • Ha Ha 🙂

  6. Reading some interesting comments, articles regarding Vesey decision to sign with the NYR. The interesting point I took was that he’ll start on the third line, where as other teams were promising top 6 minutes. Maybe in the end Vesey knew his own value better then most teams that were chasing him.

    • Agree wholeheartedly, talk here around Boston is that he is scared sh*tless about failing and the spotlight especially with all the attention he received. Word is all the negativity that Jimmy Hayes received here over his lousy season scared him

      • The best part of the Vesey saga is that it’s over. Now it’s on him to play well – clearly the Rangers will give him an opportunity to prove himself and we’ll see where it goes.
        The fact that so many teams were eager to sign him is significant – he must have NHL credentials. If he’s anywhere near Chris Drury’s level of play, the Rangers will have struck gold.

    • I didn’t see the Rangers as a viable option if Vesey truely was demanding a top 6 role. Obviously he wasn’t as of the 6 teams he was apparently interested in signing with NYR provides the least chance of playing a top 6 role & seeing any decent PP minutes. Which also means he won’t be in as good a position to demand a huge 2nd contract as he’s going to have to earn his playing time playing for Vigneault, especially with more established players eating up quntity & quality minutes in front of him. Apparently those news reports were a complete fabrication by a great many people.

      I thought the Rangers top 6 was set. Some combination of these 6.

      Miller, Stepan, Zuccarrelo.
      Kreider, Zibanejad, Nash.

      Now the picture gets cloudy. Does Miller move to #3 C pushing Hayes to RW? Or do the top 2 lines stay intact moving wingers around as you see fit & Vesey plays LW on the 3rd line with Hayes at C & Fast at RW?

      Regardless my expectations for Vesey points wise drop by about 10 to 15 signing in NYR. New projection 10 to 15 goals 40 to 45 points. For points Chicago would have been the best option as the LW spot with Toews & Hossa garuntees a player some points & someone is getting Shaw’s PP time. Playing with Hayes & Fast barely getting 2nd line PP time in NYR isn’t conducive to being in the running for the Calder which other teams would have provided.

      Odd choice but interesting & good for NYR long term. Now 1 of Glass, Gerbe or Jooris will need to be waived come the start of the season to get roster compliant. 14 forwards now & only Vesey is waiver exempt.

      • I projected him as a 30 point guy.Heard he liked the big city atmosphere in his presser last night. ( read it havent seen the presser )
        All I can say is this dont get caught up in the lifestyle Jimmy. Its taken down smarter people then you. Be careful.

      • I’m morbidly curious. How do you come up with projections of a college hockey player without knowing a team, line, line mates or role the player will be put in?

        Is there some sort of hidden formula? Or is the word projection a fancy way of saying wild guess?

      • @Nyr4life
        I use a combination of wild turkey giblets, cold beer and pigs ears to base my projections on. Like all the other wannabe psychics that live here.
        You’re right in saying it’s a guess. Anyone who says different is lying.
        My guess is based on a bunch of factors that make it more of an educated guess then a wild one.
        Still it’s all just a guessing game. If I had a sure fire way of being accurate or right all the time I’d be rich !

      • Yankee, I wasn’t trying to be a jerk. It was more directed at striker. I see him talk about point projections a lot. Both team and individual stats.

        And really you never know. I’ll use Hagelin and Kessel as prime examples. Who would have thought Bonino was a better suited guy than Crosby or Malkin? Who would have thought that Hagelin would struggle so heavily with Anaheim, only to nearly match his best year total in about 30 + games in Pittsburgh?

        Bottom line….. Vesey didn’t have a team until yesterday and still has no clear picture of his role or line mates. How has his point total projections dropped by 15 points when 7-8 different teams were involved? Are the Rangers the bottom of all those teams involved?

      • A projection is an educated guess but just that, a guess. Trying to factor in what you can, age, pedigree, opportunity etc & looking at former comparables.

      • No matter where he signed I’d say it’s a wild guess. Toronto, Buffalo, Boston, NYI’s, NYR’s, Detroit , Chicago, Pittsburgh I don’t think any team was promising a real top 6 forward opportunity. But to say your original projection of 60 points now drops 25% because he signed in Ny is odd.

        I can’t see him putting up better numbers in Buffalo, Toronto, or Detroit than he would in NY. And even assuming he played alongside Tavares, Crosby, Toews etc. guarantees nothing. See Phil Kessel.

        I don’t have any dillusions that he’ll come to NY and do anything. For all I know he could be the next 3rd round version of Daigle, Or the next Taresenko. I have zero expectations. I still don’t like the path he took to get to NY either way. But I can’t even put a point total on him with the team I’ve followed my entire life.

        It’s total random guess work imo. There really is no educated guess. There were / are far too many variables involved to really make an educated guess.

      • I did watch Phil Kessel NYR he played like an MVP in the playoffs

      • Why are hagelin and Kessel better on Pittsburg. Because Pittsburg has 2 of the very best players in the league on their team. Anaheim and Toronto have nothing close.

      • Hockey83,
        The 2 best players in the world had little to nothing to do with Kessels success, which was kind of my point. He didn’t have chemistry with either, but found chemistry with Bonino and Hagelin.

  7. Of all the UFAs still floating around maybe the most puzzling is Brandon Pirri. I mean, he’s a C picked in the 2nd round in 2009 by Chicago, in his prime (25 y/o) and a fair size at 6′ 185 lbs (he could afford to bulk up by adding about 10 pounds). He hasn’t been a great offensive threat with just 49 goals and 31 assists in 160 games played, and did score 22 goals in 2014-15 for Florida so he knows where the net is. Perhaps the telling stat was his paltry 2 assists that same year and meager 31 in 160 games – which tends to stick out like a sore thumb when a guy is supposed to be a C. Is anyone more familiar with his game and could perhaps explain why he’s still out there?

    • I followed him in Rockford and live in Chicago. The sports media and Hawks insiders explained that he had to go because of his refusal to play a two way game. He plays zero defense which does irk some suitors.

      Now any team that wants offensive firepower can overlook this, but he is a substantial defensive liability and hasn’t improved that aspect of his game since joining the league.

      • Sounds a bit like Mike Hoffman. Be interesting to see if he puts some effort into HIS two-way game this year under Boucher and Crawford.

      • Makes sense Jake. Yet his plus minus isnt overly bad. The minus 4 stands out a bit but thats not bad as he was a plus 6 in his Cy Young season. almost the same stats as Vrbata last year except Verbatas ugly plus minus.
        Hopefully he lands somewhere for one more shot……

    • Has to be something off the ice with pirri George? He has a goal scoring touch but so many teams in such little time usually means off ice issues

      • Or he’s just good trade bait

    • I think your bang on regarding the assist stat. The guy is way too much one dimensional. Doesn’t bring much else to the team. There are so many other guys who can get 15-20goals plus add assist value that a team can grab instead.

    • The longer they wait the more the player will need the job and maybe take a little less

    • @Nyr4life
      I didn’t take your question as being from a jerk at all. I was just trying to be funny as there is no exact science in projections at all. ( unless your BB his comments are the only right ones never to be disputed )
      There is no way of projections becoming true unless you’re lucky.
      Sure there are factors such as team etc to help a person make a better guess but again it’s all a fun guessing game.
      I have no feelings either way for the Rangers. Vesey on the other hand I have made my thoughts known.
      All I ask for is exciting hockey,it’s a game I love and always will.
      Enjoy the upcoming season

      • Pretty funny Yankee talking out of both sides of his mouth again, half the time he wants stats to backup up a comment but now it’s fine just guessing? Alot of ppl on here need to lay of the pipe so you remember what you’ve said beforehand!

      • HMMM a tough from Bigbad on BB.
        Windy out today

      • I meant a thought but thats ok Im sure BBB or BB will jump on it and keep it hockey related lol

      • How is putting Bbb in that comment hockey related? Just trolling Yankee remember always the right or left side of your mouth the opposite of the side you put the pipe in!! ?

      • Have a nice day Bigbear !

      • You too Yankee ?Stay off the drugs and booze?

      • You too. Stay off the Internet.

  8. The Rangers won’t be better with Vesey-what they lack is not going to be provided by JV:I am happy to see him there, since as a Leafs fan I did not want one more US college player clogging their re-build! Had to laugh at the “they fired Vesey Sr and the brother, Nolan”..very funny!

    • Whats with the hate for college players here? The Pens just won a cup with about 13-14 on their roster!

      Bonino,Kessel,Lovejoy, Cole
      Kunitz,Zatkoff,Hagelin
      Rust,Cullen,Sheary,Shultz and I’m sure I’m missing some. Or is just a US college player thing?

      • That’s a BIG pimple. Brian Burke is just a blow hard!

      • Those players may have won a cup with the Pens, but with Burke associated with Team U.S.A., how many have been selected for the upcoming tournament?

      • Maybe none off Pittsburgh, but Mcdonagh and Stepan off the top of my head.

  9. Trading for Rick Nash would be a mistake for anybody. Shattenkirk has much more value than a vastly overpaid Nash. If I were the Blues Id try to get Shattenkirk resigned and find cap space another way. 7.8 million is a lot of money to pay for a player (Nash) with a history of disappearing once the playoffs start.

    Hudler to Chicago on a reasonable one year deal makes sense but I would think if he lowers the dollars and term he is looking for there would be several teams looking for additional scoring depth that may want him.

  10. There must be some sort of unspoken concern about Pirri. I can see no reason why a team would pass on a promising guy his age unless there were health, attitude issues or perhaps some really unrealistic salary demands. Something is fishy.