NHL Rumor Mill – October 25, 2016

by | Oct 25, 2016 | Rumors | 118 comments

Could Philadelphia Flyers goalie Steve Mason became an LA Kings trade target?

Could Philadelphia Flyers goalie Steve Mason became an LA Kings trade target?

Potential trade targets for the Los Angeles Kings plus the latest Anaheim Ducks speculation in your NHL rumor mill.

SPORTSNET: Luke Fox lists seven goalies the Los Angeles Kings could target in a trade to bolster their injury-ravaged goaltending. They are Ondrej Pavelec of the Winnipeg Jets, Jonathan Bernier of the Anaheim Ducks, Reto Berra of the Florida Panthers, Steve Mason or Michal Neuvirth of the Philadelphia Flyers, Mike Condon of the Pittsburgh Penguins and Thomas Greiss of the New York Islanders.

Fox notes Pavelec’s $3.9 million cap hit and the possible reluctance of Jets management to part with him are potential stumbling blocks. Kings goalie coach Bill Ranford is fond of Bernier and the Ducks do need to shed salary, but trades between bitter rivals rarely take place. Berra carries a cap-friendly $1.45 million cap hit. Like Pavelec, he is currently buried in the minors. 

Mason’s name appears more in trade chatter than Neuvirth’s because of his $4.1 million cap hit, but neither have better stats than the Kings call-up Peter Budaj. Condon carries a very affordable $575K cap hit and is eight years younger than Budaj. Fox doesn’t believe the Kings will target Pens veteran starter Marc-Andre Fleury, in part because of their long-term commitment to sidelined starter Jonathan Quick. Greiss and J-F Berube are on expiring contracts and Fox guesses the Isles prefer to keep the younger Berube.

PHILLY.COM’S Sam Carchidi, replying to a reader’s question on if the Flyers might trade a goalie to the Kings, named Neuvirth if the price was right. However, he also points out Flyers GM Ron Hextall likes having two strong goaltenders. 

SPECTOR’S NOTE: The Jets apparently aren’t fully sold on their young goalie tandem of Connor Hellebuyck and Michael Hutchinson, preferring to retain Pavelec as insurance. Bernier’s cap hit is $4.15 million and Mason’s $4.1 million. The Kings lack the cap space to take on either salary unless the Ducks or Flyers are willing to pick up a significant chunk. Neuvirth is more affordable, but the Flyers probably wish to retain him. With both clubs also squeezed for cap space, I don’t see that happening. Greiss, Berra and Condon are much more affordable, but are they really worthwhile options? If the Kings struggle with their current netminders, they might not have much choice. 

SPORTSNET: Luke Fox reports trades rumors continue to swirl around the Anaheim Ducks as they attempt to re-sign restricted free agent defenseman Hampus Lindholm.  While observing the Ducks freed up some valuable cap space to re-sign Lindholm by placing concussed defenseman Simon Despres on LTIR ($3.75 million AAV), Fox notes that’s only temporary as they’ll have to free up cap room when Despres is ready to return to action.

Fox also cites speculation suggesting the Ducks could instead trade Lindholm for a good young defenseman if there’s no end in sight for this contract stalemate. Ducks GM Bob Murray reportedly dismissed that rumors. Lindholm’s agent, Claude Lemieux, said both sides remain motivated toward getting a new deal in place. 

SPECTOR’S NOTE: It was only a matter of time until speculation about trading Lindholm, rather than Cam Fowler, bubbled to the surface. While I don’t dismiss that possibility, my guess is the Ducks management intend to re-sign him and deal with the possible cap problems of Despres’ return later in the season. At some point, they’ll have to shed a significant salary if they intend to retain Lindholm. Fowler ($4 million annual cap hit) remains the likely trade candidate. 







118 Comments

  1. Continuing on from yesterday…I still think the Leafs can pitch JVR for Fowler and take salary. Capfriendly has the Leafs with $21M in cap space next season if the cap remains the same thanks to Robidas, Michalek, Greening and Laich’s combined $14M coming of the books and we can assume that Lupul’s $5.25M is also going to disappear as well. So if the Ducks need to throw Stoner’s $3.25 in as well then call it a deal and get it done. Is Fowler the answer to the D woes faced by the Leafs? No…but he is better than what they currently have rounding out the top 4. Reilly/Carrick/Fowler/Gardiner with Polak and Hunwick @ 5/6. Marincin can go on waivers…

    • I guess that would be Hunwick/Polak/Stoner in the 5/6 spots…

      • Agreed. JVR + Prospect for Fowler + Stoner/Cogliano.

        Rielly – Zaitsev
        Gardiner – Fowler
        Marincin – Carrick
        Polak

        That’s not half bad until you can find a true top pair D to partner Rielly.

      • I understand what your thinking here but there is more to it than just money and salary Cap, for one the Leafs are currently sitting at 49 of 50 contracts so it’s unlikely there will trading one player or a player and a pick for multiple contracts, 2 by taking back 2 D with a deal like Fowler Stoner, what is happening to the D that’s already there? Guys need minutes and even demoting 1 to the Marlies is just taking away from another’s development having Stoner Polak Hunwick Marinicin Corrado and trying to split up bottom pairing minutes between 5 guys is leading to headaches and bad roster decisions. There is more to look at than just making dollars work not the least of which is Fowler is a lefty which leaves 3 of your top 4 as left handed D which isn’t ideal.

      • I think Rielly and one of the other 2 righties in their first full season as top pairing would be a train wreck.

      • I believe the suggestion was a 2 for 2.
        JvR, a prospect & a pick for Fowler & Stoner. Contracts stay the same for both teams.

        Corrado isn’t an NHL Dman, never will be even with another team being added. Marincin may be but doesn’t look promising, he was drafted 6 years ago & still hasn’t secured a regular role, on thin ice no real future with Toronto. Polak & Hunwick are place holders; As is Marincin really, both will be moved no later than the trade deadline probably sooner as teams take significant injuries & need to replace a Dman.

        That leaves, Reilly, Gardner, Zaitsev & Carrick. 2 rookies in your top 4 is cause for concern & Fowler would help solidify this group.

        This trade scenario has merit, makes sense to me & Toronto can easily afford to buy Stoner out at seasons end if so inclined.

        The unfortunate part is I don’t see Anaheim moving any Dman now until cap issues force them to. With Despres now on LTIR & Thompson eventually being put on it Murray is in no rush to have to trade a Dman. This is going to drag on potentially right through to the off season & if Despres doesn’t return this season he may not even move a Dman.

      • Striker, I think you’re quite right to suggest that Corrado/Polak/Hunwick and even Marincin are essentially irrelevant to the future of the team.

        Of that group, however, I think Marincin has been the best. Either way, these are easily replaced pieces.

        Now, as to Zaitsev – this is not a 20 year old rookie. This is a 24 year old that has 7 pro seasons under his belt. He was the 1D for Russia in the WC and has looked right at home in the NHL in the early running.

        We may see issues down the stretch – in fact, I fully expect the rookies to tire out come January or so – but so far he looks very promising as a long term second pair D.

        Carrick, likewise, has looked quite capable of playing bottom pair D in the NHL if given an NHL-level partner to play with.

      • Shticky, it’s already well established that the Leafs D is somewhat of a trainwreck. It’s clearly an area of weakness on a weak team. What we’re talking about its the future.

        Rielly has taken great strides from last season, which was a good season for him considering his deployment (zero PP until the end of the season). I believe this was evident in the WC and this season to date.

        He’s 22 years old and has 241 games of NHL experience. I believe he’s ahead of his development curve, but we have to remember his prime years are still a year or maybe two away from beginning.

      • I agree Dan. Zaitsev looked great in the WHC’s; 1st time I really took notice of him & may be well seasoned but still a rookie by NHL standards. That doesn’t mean he can’t make a solid contribution but still causes me pause.

        For me part of building a solid team is giving the youth a chance to win every night but more importantly not getting blown out continuously. To do so you need stable goaltending & defense to help buffer the breakdowns. I made this same argument when I said Andersen should be Toronto’s primary target & most said no.

        Young teams make even good or great goalies look bad but put a young or average goalie in net & they will be brutal & that’s disheartening & not good for a young teams development.

      • I don’t see anything about the leafs in this thread? As of right now the leafs have 1 potential top pairing guy in Reilly who still needs work on his defense but the rest of them are 4-6 dmen on playoff teams

      • Gardner isn’t a 4 to 6 Dman on most teams even playoff teams with a few exceptions. Of the 16 teams that made the playoffs last season the only teams where Gardner wouldn’t have been a top 4 potentially; in are Anaheim; best D in the NHL, Min; 2nd best D in the NHL, StL; 3rd best D; Nas; 4th best D in the NHL & SJ.

        On every other team he easily makes the top 4 & you could argue that Gardner would have been a better option at #4 in Anaheim than Bieksa.

      • I think you are right about the Leafs D overall. I don’t think the leafs will be overly active this year as they evaluate the roster, but I think they would move guys like JVR, Bozak, and place holders if the right deal is in place. They feel comfortable pairing a non top pairing guy with Reilly because he has worked hard at improving his game in all scenarios but they may want to bring in someone to alleviate the stress on Carrick and Zaitsev so they can develop and acclimatize properly rather than being thrust into roles they can’t handle.

        I think if the leafs went after fowler they could do so by offering JVR but offering to retain some part of his salary rather than take a contract. JVR at a 3M cap hit is a pretty good value and the Leafs could afford it. Not saying this happens but it would be interesting.

        I don’t think you will see the Leafs involved in many blockbusters though unless something materializes that isn’t even being talked about. I think JVR is the most valuable moveable asset and I don’t think they want to trade him, I just think they would to fill a need if they got adequate value.

      • When you have the likes of vatenan,fowler,lindholm to carry the Offense no way gardiner gets into that top 4 his defense not good at all

      • As I said Bigbear with Anaheim maybe he dislodges Bieksa but I agree with you he’s not bumping the 3 others. Gardner isn’t fully developed has played for 1 of the worst teams in the NHL & worst defenses & he’s not as bad defensively as you continually make him out to be.

        Players that drive offense, transition & possession tend not to be stellar defensively with a few very minor exceptions. Hard to be sound defensively when your leading & joining the rush constantly. It’s a trade off. If you want them to help create goals they are generally going to cost you some.

        I know you don’t like #’s so I won’t bother giving you any but your argument doesn’t hold water & this if you put him on a different team thing is meaningless. He plays for Toronto not some other team & until he does he is what Toronto uses him as.

        Unless the NHL has changed the rules & I missed another memo the team that scores the most goals wins.

      • Striker do you actually watch gardiner play in his own end or just follow the puck? You throw numbers around like they are the be all to end all, you say your a hockey freak but you never say anything about the little things in the offensive and defensive zone you just follow the puck! Your arguments don’t hold any water because all you do is read the stats page after

      • Of course I do Bigbear. Stats aren’t the be all & end all. The eye test is essential. Although if Gardner was as bad as you want him to be he wouldn’t play as much as he does.

        Factor in he just turned 26 in July & is still a year from being fully developed & he’s doing great as an offensive, transitional Dman. He is an offense Dman not a stay at home shut down defensemen nor even a solid 2 way Dman that’s not what he is. He’s not Brooks Orpik nor will he ever be as much as you may want him to be.

      • Striker he plays so much because he plays on a weak defensive team you’ve said that many times or have you changed your mind to support your argument? It’s not just me that says that about gardiner either a lot of hockey ppl point out how bad he is defensively and even leaf fans say it

      • BBB I have actually seen almost every Leafs game thus far and have been watching Gardiner for the last 4 years. He has improved every year and has looked fantastic so far this year.
        While his defensive game needs work he is a lot better than you think.
        He has been driving the play extremely well.

      • He might have improved tazi but still needs a lot more improvement in his own end

      • No I haven’t, I accept players for what they are & how they contribute. I could careless what fans think or most broadcasters & journalists. I care about what the coach & organization he plays for thinks & obviously they value his contribution or he would have been traded & or not playing as much as he does in the situations he does.

        I can assure you I don’t care what you think. Ha-ha! But we can go back & forth all day if you like. Makes no difference to me. Now Toronto’s #1 offensive Dman & has been since Phaneuf was traded. I stand by my projection of 12 to 15 goals & 42 to 47 points.

        I am a fantasy hockey pool fan 1st, NHL hockey fan 2nd. If I didn’t participate in & run these fantasy leagues & pools I wouldn’t watch any where near as much hockey live nor have seasons tickets to as many teams. The fantasy side of it makes it far more enjoyable than just the game side of it at least for me.

      • Actually the leafs are now maxed out at 50 contracts after picking up B. Smith

      • Drew, the Leafs are not at 50 contracts – they are at 49 contracts, one below the limit.

    • TML would be best to stand pat and just play out the year gelling..we have 2-4 guys with the Marlies that are future assets and or keepers! I personally (management) like what they’re doing with the team. It’s a work in progress..” there is a method to their madness ” The team is fun to watch nevertheless.

      • Toronto needs to solidify it’s defensive game & to do so they need a big minute munching Dman that can play against the other teams best players. Many here still adhere to the neandrathal standard that it has to be a very physical punishing Dman for them a true #1 is a Doughty, Weber, Suter, Keith type Dman. Well that would be perfect but not enough of them to go around for even 15 teams never mind 30 or soon to be 31. So there next choice are the big physical hard hitting Dman that don’t really help drive offense at the same rate as these studs which are few.

        With the NHL moving to speed, transition & puck possession there is a new breed of #’1s being developed. These Dman are solid defensively but don’t hit to hurt or punish people, something the neanderthals love. They play sound positional hockey, they hit to remove the puck from the player, player from the puck or player from the play not leave the player laying injured on the ice.

        Everyone snaps occasionally in hockey. It happens it’s a fast physical game & we do things before our brain kicks in. Bourque & Lidstrom were to of the greatest Dman to ever play the game. They rarely hit to hurt. Again that’s not to say it didn’t happen occasionally. Ha-ha! Emotion is a huge part of hockey.

        If you want to deploy even more youth on D you will continue to stunt the development of this team. Youth rarely transfers to wins especially at D with few exceptions & you will continue to see leads & games slip away due to really nothing more than youth & their development.

    • Bob Murray has stated numerous times that he doesn’t want cap back even if it’s a Fowler+Stoner deal. So JVR wont work. If Murray is asking for Mantha from Detroit then Murray will want one of either Nylander/Marner from the Leafs. Murray doesn’t want money coming back period. Even a JVR for Fowler+Stoner only clears about $3 million and seeing that Anaheim has an internal budget and can’t afford to go up against the cap. Murray will be looking at cheaper alternatives then JVR. Unless Lou wants to eat half of JVRs salary i doubt any deal around JVR for both Fowler and Stoner will work cap wise for Anaheim unless Murray only plans on giving Lindholm around $5 million or so and that’s not happening. It’s already pretty much been said by a few insiders that JVR wont work Murray wants back as little in the way of salary as possible. Seeing that they don’t spend up to the cap. I’ll be shocked if Fowler is even dealt the way he’s playing right now i don’t see Murry dealing him.

      • Agreed Gary. This same trade proposal has been made every day for a week or so now. I don’t know that seeing that same proposal over and over makes it any more realistic. It has been shot down by multiple people every day for the same reasons you stated.

        The only part I’d disagree with is the internal cap. I believe as it stands, the Ducks have a little over 500k in cap space. Depres and Thompson will be back at some point. Even just getting Fowlers 4.0 out of the way, it will still be a crunch to fit Lindholms 5-6. Taking back even half of Jvr’s contract will not work. No matter how many times its proposed.

      • If you’ve watched even one of Marner’s games in the NHL, you know that he’s not being traded. Matthews and Nylander aren’t being traded either.

        This is the youngest team in the NHL. In the first year of rebuilding, they’re not mortgaging the future to get better today.

        I suspect that if a deal can’t be structured around one of the vets, it isn’t going to happen. And that’s totally fine. This isn’t an EDM situation.

      • Dan39 I agree with you that neither Marner nor Nylander are being dealt, But let’s face facts that Bob Murray has stated numerous times that he doesn’t want much salary coming back so that leaves out JVR here. Even if Lou was inclined to take Stoner and by all accounts he isn’t. A deal revolving around JVR just isn’t going to work. Maybe Murray would do a deal around Kapanen instead. But Murray doesn’t want much salary coming back period. Obviously Murray would have to add quite a bit to move that Stoner contract. JVR+prospect for Fowler+Stoner isn’t going to work for the Ducks period. Murray will want a top 6 LW for Fowler obviously JVR would be the perfect fit. But seeing that Anaheim can ill afford to take on much salary even throwing Stoner in for free still doesn’t help a;; the much.

      • If Tor would take Stoner, JvR only costs Anaheim a mil per for the next 2 years, the differences in their cap hits, 1.75 in real dollars. Your not getting as good a player from anyone at a million per or 1.75 in real dollars.

        I’m not a big Mantha fan & as he will need to be protected come expansion not the player I want back nor can Detroit eat salary to take Fowlers contract they would need to lose salary to take him. If it has to be a player that needs to be protected I want a proven young NHL player with a decent contract.

        As currently constructed with the injuries already on the books, Thompson & Despres; insurance will cover 80% of their respective salaries, regardless of what Anaheim’s internal cap is they are playing the hand they dealt themselves. I don’t really see Anaheim being significantly under the cap this season. No way to acheive it with out potentially trading 2 Dman & I’m not even convinced they are going to trade 1 now that Despres’s career is in question.

      • Couldn’t agree more. Enough Leaf trade rumours five games into the season. Check back in a month – let’s play some games already!

      • Thank you bcleaf other teams play in the NHL also

      • Actually Columbus is the youngest team in the NHL at 25.729, Buffalo 2nd at 25.902, Carolina 3rd at 25.909, Edmonton 4th at 26.364, Winnipeg 5th at 26.075 & Toronto 6th at 26.667. When Michalek is sent down it will drop nominally. A ton of other teams are with in .125 of Toronto.

        Toronto like most teams in the NHL are young now & remove even 1 aging veteran from 1 teams roster, Doan in Arz, Chara in Bos, Jagr in Flo etc & they get much younger fast.

        Toronto is young but no different than a bunch of NHL teams. Youth is being served as it’s cheaper to dress young players, younger players are better skaters in today’s world for the most part & the game is transitioning to speed rapidly. In this cap world that’s eliminating most players over 33 unless they are incredibly solid still. No room for fringe veterans making millions when you can pay a 22 year old to perform the same role.

      • Striker, I believe your numbers are either outdated or calculated differently than the numbers I saw reported via Twitter that had them the youngest at 25.5.

      • Numbers taken from NHLnumbers.com

      • That’s including Horton Lupul and Michaleck who are all on roster players according to NHL numbers in reality the Avg age of Torontos roster is 25.5 not sure where that sits in comparison.

      • And Robidas I may add so I’m not sure the accuracy of NHL numbers for average age of a roster but it’s out of whack when it comes to the Leafs where a number of guys that are on the active roster there will likely never play anothergame as a Leaf player.

      • The accuracy of the #’s is almost meaningless, teams all have injuries, reasons players are on the roster or not at specific times. Toronto is a very young team but the difference between them & 1/2 the teams in the league is negligible & of little relevance.

        The NHL is in a full scale youth movement. Toronto is a great young hockey team, actually fun to watch for the 1st time in close to a decade & dressing a ton of kids in key roles.

        Does anyone really care that they are the youngest? I was just trying to show that they aren’t specifically the youngest & how you wish to address age is also a factor. Teams are allowed 23 man rosters. Players on IR or LTIR are rostered players so their age counts I think I haven’t actually run the math to check NHLnumbers methodology.

        I have been having this discussion with numerous people on this site about NYR being young for years as they keep stating they are old. they aren’t nor were. Just a couple of specific players. Boyle, Moore & Lundqvist in the last 2 years. 31 or 32 isn’t drastically old & the vast majority of their players are just kids as well. According to NHLnumbers.com they are 27.790.

    • “the Leafs can pitch JVR for Fowler” “so if the Ducks need to throw in Stoner…”
      no mention of prospects there and even in Dans reply where there is the prospect that would be going back either adds to the salary the Ducks are taking back which is counter productive or depending on the prospect to make the deal work is getting in to an overpayment….not sure the Leafs management will be in a huge hurry to give up a high end prospect + JVR + take back 3 mill in salary to boot seems like this is rushing things a bit for a team that’s preaching patience which seems counter productive as well. Leafs have all kinds of cap room this summer if they want to go after another top 4 type D in a deal like this with out eating in to LTIR or bonus monies maybe there is a deal to be made out there but not sure it looks like anything that’s mentioned here I think it would need to be more complex and I still not sure Fowler is ideal helpfull yes he would be but I think there could be better fits.

      • Exactly Schticky, every decision the Leafs make needs to fit their developmental timeline. They will not be a contender for another 4 years at the earliest. The reason they keep using the word patience is because this is going to take a while. That is the same reason Babcock insisted on an 8 year contract, because he knows it too.
        I would be shocked if they give up any top prospects for Fowler.
        Nobody is going to be throwing Murray a lifeline here. He needs to win now and not utilizing key assets in your lineup isn’t helping. Every GM knows that. He needs to get Lindholm signed and playing and the longer they struggle the hotter his seat gets. He can stall this for a while longer, but ….
        Examples – the Boychuck and Leddy deals to the Islanders when those teams were in a similar situation.

      • Ray Bark.

        Both Boston & Chicago were over the cap. Not really comparable & Boychuk was a year away from UFA status looking a huge raise. Leddy an RFA facing the same.

        Toronto only has 4 top prospects, Matthew’s, Nylander, Marner & Zaitsev. The rest are B’s or C’s that will take far longer to get to the NHL & be destined for lower roles. Some may surprise, some always do but based on prospect rankings, The Hockey News Future Watch, numerous prognosticators/broadcasters/journalists/NHL insiders that specialize in such things, Button, Mackenzie, Hockey Prospects, Dobber, McKeens, The Forecaster, etc. the remainder aren’t held as top prospects except to Toronto & their fans.

        If Fowler is moved the return will be substantial or he simply won’t move. As it stands currently Anaheim can make the monies work at least today & like Bobby Mac I think Murray is loath to trade Fowler unless as always, he gets an offer he can’t refuse for this type of asset.

        Yes they need help at forward, Rackell’s Visa issues were supposed to be resolved early this week & with sometime to get his legs back, a week of practice or a conditioning stint in the minors, he will be playing soon & will help. He will need 12 to 15 games to get up to full speed but what you see may be what you get in Anaheim this season for the most part & all this discussion will be for not & a complete waste of time. Ha-ha!

      • Ya it is a different situation Striker, Fowler has 2 years left but he is also not as good a Boychuk was at that time. The only point I was making is that while Murray isn’t in I have to trade right now mode, he will be soon enough. He will get more than Boston did for Boychuk, but I also don’t think he will get “fair market value” either unless he gets enough relief from LTIR and can fit everyone in.
        Mainly I was addressing what Schticky was, the Leafs are not trading top prospects for the right now, or even next year.

      • I don’t think Toronto needs to trade top prospects. There isn’t going to be enough room at the inn for all the B & C grade prospects Toronto has accumulated & soon they will need to start peddling some to relive the log jamb coming with waiver issues or be prepared to potentially lose some of these prospects on waivers like Detroit has been now for several years.

        Cutting a Lindberg, Soshnikov, Brown type prospect is almost inconsequential to Toronto moving forward if they can get a solid asset today that helps stabilisze the rebuild in some way.

        They are going to be moving players out at the trade deadline again this season for futures replacing with more picks & prospects. Love what Toronto has going on.

    • Fowler is a better all around player than Lindholm period. Lindholm wants $6 million a year good luck hope he likes his couch in Sweden. Living in L.A. I see both these guys play all the time and while Lindholm is promising Cam Fowler is better, cheaper and they are only 2 years apart in age 22 and 24 for Fowler. Wake up Anaheim deal the couch potatoe…..

    • What about Zaitsev? The problem for Toronto is they don’t have a top 4 defense. Zaitsev and Reilly are the only two that qualify in that category. Gardiner, in my opinion, is a strong 5/6. He gets top 4 minutes because of where he plays.

      • He gets top 4 minutes because he’s a solid young up & coming offensive Dman. Only UFA’s get to choose where they play. Go through all 30 teams & tell me which 1’s Garnder doesn’t play in the top 4 on. I can only see 8 where he wouldn’t & 1 of them he may regardless.

        He doesn’t play for some else, he plays for Toronto. There are 30 top 4 D positions in the NHL before injuries factor in. Gardner has played as Toronto’s #2 or 3 for the last 4 years #4 for the last 5. It’s not his fault they have been brutal both as a team & defensively, yet you want to judge him as such.

        Isn’t it potentially possible the opposite would be true. If he got to play with a solid defensive Dman; say like an Alzner, & not Phaneuf his primary partner he has played with he would look better defensively? Or if Toronto iced an overall better team all their D & players would appear better defensively.

        You can’t single out 1 or 2 players & say see he’s bad. Sure he is, the whole team is. Look at Calgary. They have a solid D on paper & everyone wants to blame their goalies but what ails them has far more to do with 20 players than 1, the goalie.

  2. I’m of the opinion that JVR, being already anointed one of the greatest player to don a Leafs uniform, should be re-upped and retire a Leafs. Why not, He deserves it!

    • WHO is putting JVR in the same class as Keon, Mahovlich, Kennedy, Gilmour, Kelly, Salming, Sundin, Sitler et al?? That’s just ridiculous and had to stated with tongue-in-cheek!

      • well, they did name the top 100 Leafs of all time and JVR did make the cut. That counts as one the greatest George. Fact

    • Frankly, other than a handful of players like Sundin, the TML has been a revolving door unlike from previous years …it’s time we get a team with continuity moving forward.

      • Pretty pathetic “fact” Tazi – and that list resembles the proverbial camel – i.e., a horse designed by a commitee.

    • Wow tucker,domi,gill in your top 100 kinda sad

      • You aren’t kidding.

      • Yeah I think they threw out the idea of top 100 for the 100th anniversary but then realized how thin that list would have to be. Especially for a team that has struggled in the modern area and has no modern area scoring leaders, hart tropjy players etc.

        They ended up focusing players people may have fond memories of but when you have to include a winger who has never scored more than 13-14 goals in a year it looks thin at best.

        I don’t get why they would include a short stinted player like mogilny though and not include mike Gartner.

        Anyway, overall this list is a bit of a train wreck and just ammunition to be made fun of. Especially when they look at the current roster and think they need to add someone and you realize that JVR was added to the list just so there was a current member.

  3. If the Kings want a high draft pick they should trade for Bernier. As a Leafs fan I am thankful for the poor goaltending he gave us as it helped our chances to get Matthews, although there was a lot of luck involved in that as well.

    • There are alot more people to thank than just Bernier for Toronto’s showing last season. Bernier’s #’s were quite good considering the dismal group of players he had to play behind last season & in the prior 2 seasons he posted solid #’s playing behind 1 of the worst teams in the league. Watch Bernier’s play moving forward playing for teams that aren’t the worst in the league.

      Luck had as much to do with Toronto getting Matthews as anything. With only a 20% chance of picking 1st overall Toronto got lucky. The odds are heavily weighted against the team finishing last overall now selecting 1st. I’ll take the 80% chance their not picking 1st every time & except losing or being wrong if you prefer on the odd occasion they do.

      I love what Shanahan has done with the exception of bringing in Lou but I guess Lou is a good mentor for Dubas, Toronto’s future GM & like many teams now, player personal decisions are being made by committee as opposed to just by the GM & the person with the final say now is the President of hockey operations more than the GM as the financial implications are a significant factor in all trades.

      • Agreed, but Bernier did help. The Leafs would often win with Reimer in goal, not that he is a bona fide starter either. And the sad part is there were other characters who contributed also. I find it unfortunate that so called experts like Don Cherry are already dousing Freddy Anderson. He’s not playing behind a stellar defense either. But all other contributing factors aside to the Leafs poor play last year goaltending has to be right up there.

      • Cherry’s an expert. Ha-ha! I tired of Cherry’s antics about 15 years ago, same rhetoric over & over. I rarely watch the Sporstnet/CBC feeds, bringing back Ron helps, didn’t like Popodopolis or what ever his name was, nor can I stand Kypreos, Maclean, etc. I like Ron, Kelly Hrudey, Freidman but he needs to stop sitting like that, on that panel, he reminds me of a chipmunk or squirrel with both legs up on that stool foot bar like that. I have NHLcenter ice I choose my games & feeds.

  4. For the longest time I thought a JVR for Fowler deal was a no brainer on both sides. Contracts are similar and each player fits the needs of the team they would go to.
    Now I have said it before, if a deal was there it would have been done. Tell me why it hasn’t been.
    Next up are Corrado and Marancin. Why haven’t the Leafs given up on these 2 if they are fringe NHLers ? 2 words, Anton Stralman. Teams are so reluctant to give up on young D as you never know what they may become. Sure they could become Stralmans or Keith Aulies but I see teams like TML becoming overly protective of these fringe guys. Tell me who besides TML think Corrado will be picked up on waivers ? I don’t think anyone would take him.

    • That is a deal that both teams need! Would love to see it happen.

    • I think you’re missing the point. The contracts are the same but the Ducks aren’t trying to trade Fowler to get a forward, they’re trying to trade him to clear cap space to sign Lindholm. Hence the earlier comments that the Ducks don’t want any salary coming back. Trading Fowler for JVR is great for the Leafs but doesn’t help the Ducks.

      • Yep that is the reason Gored. The rumors about Boston and Pastrnak seem like the type of deal ANA is looking for. Entree level deal and in theory should be more affordable over the next few years.
        I think that could still happen, but also believe Boston is waiting the Trouba saga out as well.

    • You can’t compare Marincin & Corrado to Stralman. Stralman essentially stepped into the NHL immediately & was a regular upon leaving Sweden, started his 1st 2 seasons with Toronto in the minors. Toronto, Columbus & NYR never really deployed him the way TB has nor how he was deployed in Sweden. Columbus did briefly. At the same stag of development Stralman had played 265 NHL regular season games to Corrado’s 67, 313 to Marincin’s 153.

      I agree with what your saying outside this comparison. No team is giving up on any Dman under 26 unless confronted with little choice or they have finally seen the light & exhausted all other options. Arizona waived Tinordi & he went unclaimed last week & NYR will soon be confronted with a hard choice on McIlrath.

      Again Corrado has no life’s left. If he can’t play for the worst team in the NHL where does he play. The candle is still burning for Marincin but the wax is getting very low.

      • My comparison to Stralman was Corrado and Marincin didn’t get the games in to develop the way Stralman has. How long did it take ? Your right a lot of teams and a long time.
        Sadly I think you’re not going to see the Leaf guys ( maybe Marincin will) get a chance.
        If Tinordi goes unclaimed why do the Leafs think Corrado will get claimed ?
        Mcllrath , what a tough one. I personally like the kid.
        Always enjoy the insight and knowledge most people have on here. With the exception of a few its nice to see differing viewpoints and educated responses.

  5. Rewind to Yesterday

    “Trouba is at best a mediocre 5-6 paring guy” translated = a fringe Nhl’er.

    Fast forward to today….”Carrick is a capable 5-6 guy”

    Wow, just wow!!!!

    • Wow! Couldn’t agree more. Carrick may well be a capable 5-6 guy. Trouba is being discussed a lot because he is a sought after top 4 guy at least! I guess a player’s ability is assessed in direct correlation to the team he plays for! Would love to have Trouba the other night when we blew another third period lead to the Blackhawks, and I bet the Jets would like to have him every time they fall behind, 3-0, 4-0, and 4-1. At least they usually come back! And i know the 4-0 one was to my beleaguered Leafs!

    • lol no ranger fans ever been accused of being homers NYR?

    • Ha-ha! No kidding.

    • It’s pretty bad isn’t nyr4! Comparing carrick and trouba is just silly but from a leaf fan wearing the blue and white shades

    • Plenty of NYR fans are homers. They just seem to not come here and hijack every thread luckily for all the readers. And make no mistake about it, I have absolutely slayed other Ranger fans for much less than that comparison…. Right here on this page.

      The above statement takes being a homer to an entirely different level.

      • Leaf fans come here and hijack every thread and half of them think every player prospect on the leafs is the next or current superstAr

      • Oh so you have seen homer proposals before? So the wow oh just wow over reaction thing is for effect because you’re super cool, use terms like “I slayed…” and would never post such one sided insight or is it because you have the short term memory of a nit and are in a constant state of surprise?

      • What’s next? Going to start replying with missed placed exclamation points and emojis like big bear? Seriously pops quit looking at the kids face book.

      • Shticky dan39 said basically carrick and trouba were at the same level!!! That does deserve a wow just wow statement dan39 comes on here and trolls about how good the leafs players are! It’s like he doesn’t watch any other team and only listens to Toronto homer radio and tv! Atleast you don’t make stupid trade proposals and pump every leaf players tires

      • Really Shticky? You’re a super tool. Over reaction? That’s historical coming from a guy that has Lyles email in your contacts to cry to ever time you get your feelings hurt. It was such a better place when you stopped posting because Bb “hurt your feelings” and was ” trolling you”.

        Get over yourself seriously! At least I would confront my teams fan base on ridiculous garbage, you just like to cry, brush over it and email Lyle because people hurt your feelings or disagree.

        Pops? Lol, okay “son ” time for a diaper change and a nap, obviously you’re full of crap and cranky.

      • Hysterical, not historical

      • Ppl actually email Lyle over things on the comment section? Lmao ” wow shticky, just wow”

      • Nyr4life, you’re not confronting anyone other than the straw man that you erected. Nobody, Leaf fan or not, would float the idea of a direct comparison of Trouba and Carrick – it’s nonsense. Nobody has suggested it. WPG has a vastly better defense than TOR, it’s so obvious it doesn’t bare stating.

      • Dan39,

        I find it strange you say that. YOU were the one that said that about Trouba yesterday and about Carrick today!

        While it wasn’t necessarily a direct comparison, you did make both of those statements back to back . Yesterday and today.

        Sorry to kick over the straw man you erected yesterday, and conveniently forgot today. But these are your words, not mine. All you have to do is go to yesterday’s thread and read it.

        Dan39 on October 24, 2016 at 5:22 pm
        NYR, I also talked about him ( him being Trouba) being a mediocre bottom pair Dman last season, but you ignored that completely.

        Today 1028 am

        “Carrick, likewise, has looked quite capable of playing bottom pair D in the NHL if given an NHL-level partner to play with.”

        Now is it somethings I pulled straight from my imagination, or you ready to eat crow?

      • Why is Trouba asking for a trade from WPG? According to him, because he couldn’t get the top four plus PP time that he felt he deserved! This isn’t a revelation…

        That’s not to say that he isn’t much better than Carrick who is slotted in similar at the moment – of course Trouba is better. WPG is a vastly better team defensively than the Leafs are and that doesn’t need to be stated.

        And obviously the expectations are higher with Trouba that he’ll get better as he gets into his prime years in a few years time – again, doesn’t need to be explicitly stated.

      • Sorry Dan I still don’t get it? How does Trouba on a good defensive team = a mediocre 5-6 guy, and Carrick a suitable 5-6 guy on a bad defense?

        No matter how you slice it, word it ,or twist it, it doesn’t make a hell of a lot of sense. It is backwards thinking.

      • Dan39 you got caught spouting nonsense just own it

    • LOL. People do need to keep track of their assessments. If Carrick is a capable 5/6 guy, then Borowiecki is a Norris candidate!

      • And be very careful with the “pops” crap Striker. I’m 78 and I take a very effing dim view of snotty youth thinking all seniors are senile.

      • ?

      • Isn’t he currently starring for the Ottawa Senators ? WoW. You guys are lucky to have a guy better then Karlsson !

      • George, that was Shticky, not Striker. I’ve earned “pops” at 43?

        Take it from the source, but be careful, we don’t want to overload Lyles inbox with Shticky wanting everyone banned from the site!

        Although a site where Shticky can argue with himself all day with no opposition would be pretty entertaining.

      • Ya hardly over reacting eh NYR what’s that now 3 post in a row whining about what? Some one whining? I guess? Whining about others like Striker perhaps Chris’s perhaps? Oh no no not you. You are always cool 4lyfe lol whatever. Keep going man you’re on a roll!

      • At least I confront people instead of crying to a moderator! What was it 2 months ago you stated

        “I’m done posting here, between Bbb trolling (trolling = disagreeing) and ” the professor (aka striker) taking over ” etc etc etc.

        Who would send multiple emails to the moderator complaining? Even a 7 year old wouldn’t be such little woman! ” I quit cause Bbb is pickin on me” Grow a pair!

        Try not to bust your hymen when sobbing at your computer, sending strongly worded emails to Lyle.

        Hopefully you’re ready to quit again, that would be outstandingly for the 9 minutes it lasted.

      • Keep me out of this pissing contest.

      • And making stuff up awesome keep going man. Look at you go it’s like when ChrisM didn’t agree that Stephan was a no1 centre and you cried about it for days. Tell us more. Keep “slaying” me.

      • Lyle. My bad.

        Shticky, actually it’s kind of become a running joke between me and Chrism, and it had nothing to do with him being a #1 center, but rather what he makes. He admitted using some bad comparisons such as Dave Bolland. So now it’s a Stepan vs. Bolland ongoing friendly back and forth dig at each other.

        But I’d love to know what I’ve made up? I’ll gladly pull some links (privately) and email them directly to you.

      • Thanks for pointing that out NYRfor Life. Senior’s moment 🙂

      • And I’m sorry to Lyle I’m thru with the pissing contest with NYR4life, Coolio ☠️ slayed ☠️ me by saying I got lady parts lol

  6. The Isle should be al over Fowler. They have a plethora of young, talented forwards on affordable contracts to swing back to the Ducks that would give Anaheim $3 mil or more in cap space plus an asset to put on the wings.

    • I agree. I suggested several possible targets for Anaheim. R. Strome being 1 of them. Namestnikov, Spooner, JT. Miller, etc.

      The reality is demographics. Toronto is the largest Canadian City, I think the majority of us hear are Canadians certainly not all so it lends to falling back to Toronto. Add in that the rumors in the press & both teams scouting 1 & other it is what it is.

    • They likely are EJH, at least you know Snow has done his due diligence. This is a waiting game as many teams want to see if Murray will lower the ask, and likely how their teams are playing for the first month or so before making a decision.
      Snow seems to go about his biz pretty quietly too.

  7. To Buff: Dustin Brown ( a % cap hit retained), pick from LA and a pick from Dallas
    To LA: Niemi
    To Dallas: Evander Kane

    Buff rids of partial headache, LA gets a goalie and Buff gets their upstate Ny born boy (who needs a fresh start).

  8. LA signing Anders Lindback. Short term help.

  9. Anyway gentlemen have a great day. I get to see my 1st live game of the season tonight. Winnipeg at Dallas. Looking forward to seeing Laine & Connor play live.

    • Have fun, Striker! Should be a good one.

  10. TO has JVR or prospects and picks that the Ducks need. Kapinen, Brown, Leivo, Leipsic and a Corrado or Carreck would be the types of assets they want. Whether it is Fowler or Lindholm is ok.

    Then TO has assets like Corrado or Carreck and whatever else is needed for Trouba. It may take a Gardner or Fowler to get him?

    • OMG ?

    • Tug, I can see the merit in trading Gardiner for Trouba, but not sure the Leafs would be so keen to weaken the D core further – have a look at Trouba’s abysmal shot suppression stats – in the short term and take on more salary even if they expected Trouba to become the better player in three or four years when he’s in his prime.

      • Dan39 just stop gardiner is nowhere near trouba you’re sounding like a such a homer

  11. Without looking, I’m sure Dan Girardi’s shot suppression is superior to Subban or Karlsson’s. However it wouldn’t merit a Girardi for Karlsson trade would it? ( please say it would…. And Gorton make it happen) Shot suppression is a stat. A legitimate stat,but there are other factors. The ability to win pucks in corners, clear the zone, win one on one battles down low, etc.

    All of that, and a bag of pucks doesn’t change the fact Anaheim won’t be dialing up the phone for Gardiner anytime soon.

    And before anyone starts complaining, emailing or starts accusing me of trolling.

    What is Aneheim trying to achieve by trading a Fowler or a Lindholm? Cap relief.
    How does trading for Gardiner help them sign Lindholm? They are looking to free cap space in order to re-sign Lindholm and possibly add a cheap winger in the process not named JVR.

    • Well said

    • Didn’t realize Trouba played for the Ducks there slayer.

      • And part of the reason Girardi is no longer very good because he doesn’t particularly suppress shots very well… before you start spouting off about stats maybe you should look in to them,
        You aren’t even paying attention to reading what the guy is saying anymore you’re just yapping continue your
        rant all while making bbb pitch a tent in his pants because someone else can’t read a stat sheet and is talking crap about a team he doesn’t like.

      • Says the one who cries “troll”. Lmao. What a tool bag. Tool bag isn’t a bad word, no need for your mommy to complain about you being picked on here. Or requesting others to get banned.

        Aneheim, Jets, Trouba, Fowler, Stamkos, Gardiner….. Who can keep up with the never ending one sided bs that is posted here daily! But you’ll ignore that bs, and “troll”.

        Time for little jobless trolls to go to bed now!

      • And part of the reason Girardi is no longer very good because he doesn’t particularly suppress shots very well… before you start spouting off about stats maybe you should look in to them,
        You aren’t even paying attention to reading what the guy is saying anymore you’re just yapping and continuing your little hissy fit and continue your
        rant all while making bbb pitch a tent in his pants because someone else can’t read a stat sheet and is talking crap about a team he doesn’t like.

      • Lmao, get a job you little whiner!

        I said “Without looking, I’m sure Dan Girardi’s shot suppression is superior to Subban or Karlsson’s. ”

        Which I’m sure it is…… Still…

        Talk about reading what you want? “Blah blah blah…. Leafs are the best-est team ever. I can’t reply to my own fan base for their ridiculousness , just to anyone who doesn’t agree to any of our never ending bs.. Don’t agree? I’m telling ”

        Who says they quit posting because they got their little feelings hurt? Shticky does?!??????!!!!!!??✌????

      • Throw in a couple more exclamation points man come on let me have it slayer lol jobless & lady parts all score pretty low on originality imo, for such a misogynistic tough guy behind a keyboard as yourself I would think you would do better.

      • All that coming from a guy that has to tell on people and pout like a child when he don’t get his way!
        Thankfully withholding your comments, well until you didn’t.

        The exclamation points were by your request earlier….. I think right before you said you’d shut your mouth.

        But in all seriousness. What self loathing, no self esteem piece of garbage gets their feelings hurt to the point of multiple complaints toward others or refusing to post anymore? Did you hold your breath while you silently protested? Well not so silently. But …. We all know how that played out.

        You think yours or any opinion here is going to get me crying, complaining, or writing complaint emails? You could live 1 million years or choke to death on your pacifier tonight….. I’m praying for the latter. Life goes on! Put on your big girl pull ups!

        All of these questions are rhetorical, no need to answer…. No really, no need. Just sleep on all of it for a night.

      • Not that either one of us has looked particularly grown today but just scroll thru the garbage you posted here today and tell me who has looked childish NYR I’m not sure calling people female whined child (like there is an issue with it) and telling
        them to get a job etc is the picture of maturity again I’m done with this nonsense with ya today partly because of boredom and your un originality and and partly because overall lack of
        class, you can snort kick and holler all ya want about who’s childish. I questioned if you were over reacting or had bad short term memory and then you went off the rails and answered the question I guess lol cheers

      • Careful NYR the leafs are getting lit up and again the defense is god awful! Shticky will be in a bad mood and ready to tell on somebody ???✌️️

  12. Full moon or what here? I will say that I look forward to seeing how Zaitsev develops for the Leafs. I think he could be good.
    Not pushing any trades, let’s just see how things progress for all the Canadian teams.
    But it was fun, a little painful at times, to read today’s comments. How about some hockey tonight?

  13. The Ducks really want to move Bieska and keep Lindholm and Fowler. They could move Bieska to the Jets, along with Theodore and Bernier taking back Pavelcec, Mark Dano and Postma. Would give the Ducks about £4 mil more in cap space and would give the Jets an upgrade in net (they could then flip Hutchinson too) and the young, lefthanded D-man they want and more immediate stability on D as Bieska is better than half the Jets current D-men. Bonus here is that getting Theodore allows the Jets to be much more open in Trouba trade talks as they wouldn’t need the lefty D-man to come back and could make a move like getting Strome and Del Colle from the Isle.