NHL Rumor Mill – May 3, 2017

by | May 3, 2017 | Rumors | 63 comments

Some NHL clubs could be keen to deal with Vegas Golden Knights GM George McPhee before the June expansion draft.

Teams that could make trades with the Vegas Golden Knights before the expansion draft, possible trade destinations for Pittsburgh Penguins goaltender Marc-Andre Fleury and speculating over the trade value of Vancouver Canucks defenseman Chris Tanev. 

THE HOCKEY NEWS: Jared Clinton recently listed the the Minnesota Wild, Columbus Blue Jackets, Nashville Predators, Chicago Blackhawks and Pittsburgh Penguins as five clubs that could made deals with the Vegas Golden Knights before the expansion draft in June. 

The Wild could lose either a forward such as Jason Zucker or Erik Haula or a defenseman such as Jonas Brodin, Marco Scandella and Christian Folin in the expansion draft. They could make a deal with the Golden Knights, depending upon whether they protect three or four defensemen. The Blue Jackets, meanwhile, could try to do a deal ensuring the Knights pass over selecting a good young forward such as Alexander Wennberg or William Karlsson.

Clinton suggests the Predators could try to convince the Golden Knights to take someone such as Craig Smith or Colin Wilson off their hands in a cost-cutting move. Ditto the Chicago Blackhawks, as Clinton suggests giving up center Marcus Kruger could free up cap space for the Hawks. 

As for the Penguins, Clinton speculates it could cost them high quality picks and maybe a roster player to get the Golden Knights not to select Matt Murray if they’re unable to find a way to move Marc-Andre Fleury before the draft. 

SPECTOR’S NOTE: There will be undoubtedly be some wheeling and dealing between Golden Knights general manager George McPhee and some clubs hoping to minimize the effects of the expansion draft upon their current rosters. It’ll be interesting to see how things shake out in June. 

NBC SPORTS: Jason Brough speculates the improved playoff performance of Penguins goalie Marc-Andre Fleury could improve his trade value in the offseason. He suggests the Calgary Flames and Dallas Stars could suitors and even suggests the Philadelphia Flyers as a possible destination in a three-way deal. 

SPECTOR’S NOTE: A three-way trade sending Fleury to the Flyers could depend upon whether the third team is on his list of preferred trade destinations and if his limited no-trade clause follows him from Pittsburgh. I think there’s a better chance Fleury lands with the Flames (who reportedly had some interest in him last June) or Stars.

VANCOUVER SUN: Jason Botchford suggests trading defenseman Chris Tanev now while his value is high could bring the rebuilding Vancouver Canucks a future star. He feels Tanev is the biggest trade chip the Canucks have and a lot of teams have interest in him. The blueliner is also on a good contract, carrying a $4.45 million annual cap hit for three more seasons. Botchford notes the Toronto Maple Leafs are in the market for blueline depth. So are the Tampa Bay Lightning, who have a scoring winger in Jonathan Drouin who could be available for the right price. 

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Botchford isn’t saying the Canucks are shopping Tanev or even considering it, but it could be an option worth considering now that the front office is finally admitting they need to rebuild the roster. Botchford noted one theory bandied about by fans suggests offering Tanev and a draft pick for Drouin and Ryan Callahan’s expensive contract, but I don’t think that deal will materialize. If the Bolts move Drouin, I suspect they’ll look for a better blueliner than Tanev. 

 








63 Comments

  1. It won’t be high end picks for not selecting Murray. Maybe a roster player in bottom six or bottom pairing. If Vegas asks for more and pens can’t trade maf… doubtful now with his playoff performance… then the buyout is worth keeping those picks / players. Of course then Vegas loses out on an extra asset for getting greedy. Finally if Marc plays well enough it may be worthwhile to find out murrays trade value. If he can get a super return he could be moved.

    • I do think that Vegas will play ball in some places, but I think the gap between the player being passed on and the player being selected will heavily effect the price. I don’t think Vegas will give Pittsburgh an easy out of their situation for something like a 2nd, unless they make available a player to also compensate.

      I used an admittedly bad example of this the other day with Nashville using Ellis, but I do think that in some cases the price will make it more appealing to trade a player.

      If it’s a deal to pass on Murray, I think it will cost at least Pittsburgh’s first ( I openly admit I can be completely misreading this), or they would have to sweeten the pot by making a player available that they wouldn’t normally. Maybe less of a pick but you let Horvqvist be available to sweeten the pot, which will be enticing since Vegas won’t get a ton of opportunities to draft forwards capable of scoring 20+ goals.

      I do think however, that this is a place where Vegas is most likely to get a little extra greedy because it’s a really tough spot. It’s hard to extract max value from a goaltender trade, especially when it is known that you need to make the deal, and that goalies has a NTC.

      Vegas should not be jumping on taking a 2nd to pass on Murray immediately. Let Pittsburgh explore the Fleury trade market to help set the price. As the deadline for protection lists winds down the pressure goes on, and if Pittsburgh makes a mistake and Murray is available, the potential value is too high to just take a 2nd or later pick to make things easy.

      • Danny. The point is is that murrays value is insignificant to the process with the exception it puts pens in the situation in the first place. It has nothing to do with Murray. It’s the value of what the pens give up vs the -value of mafs buyout if it came to it. That’s what Vegas is bidding against not murrays value. Murrays value would only matter if pens had no out.

      • Chrisms, correct me if I am misreading you, but I believe we are saying much the same thing.

        Murray’s value is not the deciding factor, but the difference in value of Pittsburgh’s alternatives to dealing with the situation. Murray’s value only matters in how it relates to the situation, and Pittsburgh’s alternatives.

        In this scenario my point is I wouldn’t be rushing to take a modest return, as this is one of the few cases where there is a significant gap between Pittsburgh’s worst case scenario and a potential solution.

        Pittsburgh’s worst case scenario is buying out Fleury just a day or so before the draft. This would come with a cap hit of $2M for the next 4 years, and losing Fleury for nothing.

        Given that the pool of teams that would want Fleury’s services, and are willing to take him on before the expansion draft will be relatively small, along with Fleury possibly eliminating some of that list with his NTC, moving him for a solid return before the draft may be difficult and restrictive.

        So if Pittsburgh can’t get that done, they would want to keep Fleury and likely have a much easier time moving him after the expansion draft for a reasonable return.

        So Pittsburgh’s worst case scenario, buyout Fleury, take 2M in cap hit for 4 years.

        A realistically better scenario, trade Fleury after the draft, or even retain him for 1 more year then trade him, get an ok return, to dead cap.

        If it get’s down to the wire is that difference worth Pitt’s first, which will be somewhere between 25-30 in a draft considered weak?

        I think it is since the 2nd Scenario has Pittsburgh likely saving $2M in dead cap and prorbably even recouping an asset close to that value. Now, if Pittsburgh’s worst case becomes an offer on the table for a weak return, but no dead cap, they might be able to pressure Vegas. My point is Vegas shouldn’t be jumping on giving an out too easily as this is likely the toughest situation any team is going to face in expansion, so if you are going to try and extract maximum value somewhere, this might be the place.

      • Generally agree but if vegas plays hardball they could lose an asset. What people need to realize is that vegas is not the only one in the drivers seat and they could lose if not reasonable with expectations.

    • Not a chance Vegas is taking a bottom 6 forward or bottom pairing Dman as compensation for passing on Murray. MAF will be traded. If your scenario were to play out they would force Pit to buy out MAF & select Hornqvist.

      • Exactly striker. That’s what I’ve been saying. But how does it help vegas to take horny and not get a pick or prospect from Pitt? Lv loses in that scenario too.

      • Or hags. Not convinced pens don’t protect horny as their 4th

      • I see Pittsburgh using the 8 skater option unless they make a trade prior to the expansion draft. I assume the forwards protected are Crosby, Malkin, Kessel & Sheary.

        Vegas holds all the power. Players can’t be bought until 48 hours after the cup is awarded. Players being bought out will need to have cleared waivers 24 hours prior to the teams submitting their protected lists. This time line is tight.

        Yes Vegas may be negotiating with Pittsburgh now but if I’m Vegas I wouldn’t even approach Pittsburgh until the last minute. I’m not taking a 2nd round pick from Pittsburgh. They don’t have 1 this season & next years will still be a very late 2nd bottom 5 I assume.

        I make Pittsburgh solve their own problem unless the compensation warrants not doing so. Let them solve it themselves & take the best player available after they do. I don’t do it for the compensation you keep mentioning.

        I also think this whole discussion is essentially a waste of time but willing to discuss if all wish to. MAF will be moved pre expansion. Problem solved. Before the season starts Pit signs a veteran back up or takes 1 in trade.

      • sheary is exempt…

      • the point your missing Striker is every seems to agree the pens will solve it… assuming they do vegas misses a second asset. knowing this if I’m vegas I say… GMJR, take all the time you need… for a third round pick. otherwise vegas gets only the pick.. not the pick AND and a draft pick. mcfee would be gambling the pens screw up major to not take some compensation.. if the pens would be even interested in doing so.

      • Chrisms. That’s the 2nd time you have told me that. I don’t know why I can’t retain that data. You may well be right then.

      • Expansion Rule: Players with 2 years experience or less can not be drafted by Vegas. Sheary has 2 years experience and is automatically protected by the Penguins. Guentzel is also automatically protected by the Penguins. Carl Hagelin has some type of no trade clause in his contract; therefore, the Penguins have to protect him. Foresee the Penguins will protect 7 forwards: Crosby, Malkin, Hagelin, Kessel, Hornqvist, Rust, and Sunqvist. Yes I’m saying Oscar Sunqvist because he’s a coming center. 3 defensemen: Letang and protect 2 of these four Matta, Schultz, Dumoulin, or Cole.

    • goalies dont bring super returns.. not really sure why that is, but it is reality.

      • Supply & demand. Only 30 teams soon to be 31 & more than enough starters being produced world wide & growing every year with the growth of the NHL in the grass roots level in the US, western Europe, specifically Switzerland, the decline of the KHL due to financial reasons, etc..

  2. Tough situation for PIT to be in, although probably best case scenario for them. MAF is red hot and carrying them in the playoffs driving his trade value through the roof. All of the teams in desperate need of a goalie would want this guy on their roster. HOWEVER, I would think that Murray would bring PIT back the best return. Younger than MAF and only scheduled to make $3.75M through the 19-20 season. The real question here is how much longer of solid play does PIT think they can get out of MAF while they wait for the next guy (Jarry) to progress? My thoughts, from a building stand point, you keep the veteran to mentor the next kid and use the haul on the relatively cheap young (possibly next elite goaltender?) to continue to build the team into a dynasty. With his history, who knows how much time you have left with Crosby

    • good analysis. the return would have to be something really solid for Murray and the pens would have to be sold on Jarry having a better than good shot at being a starter. I’d ask for Jankowski and flames 1st overall to start with for murray… not sure if that’s enough or too much? Dallas would have to be the third overall. Pens would also have to find a goalie to expose…

      • Wow I thought leaf fans overvalued their players!!

      • I’m using a comparison to Schneider. He got the 9th overall pick. Murray is younger signed to a good deal and led a team to the cup… all put him above Schneider. Based on comparisons he would be worth more than Schneider. A good not great prospect like jankowski and what will be upper teens or lower 20’s pick seems comparable. So does third overall in a weak draft year… doesn’t sound far fetched to me

    • Very few goalies bring a big return back. Given the cap crunch Pittsburgh faces yearly, the questions again surrounding Crosby, I think the trading of MAF helps the Pens more than the slightly better return from trading Murray.

      • My argument to that would be that any team that would make a trade for Murray would be doing so with the assumption that he will become their franchise altering goalie. Murray is young, has a good cap hit for the next couple of years, and whatever franchise will attempt to trade for him will be desperate. PIT has a lot of bargaining power here. More so than trading MAF and having to swallow salary to get the return they’d want

      • Return would have to be great for pens to even consider it.

    • Goalies like MAF, legitimate solid #1’s have shown they can play well into their mid to late 30’s; 36, 37 even 38, very effectively. Brodeur, Luongo, Miller, Lundqvist, Vokoun, Hasek, Nabokov, Thomas, etc..

      That said I assume MAF is traded as I have always maintained. Pittsburgh needs the cap space. Regardless of his performance the return will be what it is due to the expansion draft. As I have stated all year & I don’t care about what MAF is doing today I never doubted his abilities to be a solid #1 with a decent contract & term left, 5.75 for 2 more years.

      A late 1st; bottom 10, to early 2nd; top 10, plus a B grade prospect. Pick may have to be in 2018 as some of the teams in need of a goalie don’t have that pick this year.

      The market for goalies is never great. Simple supply & demand. Lehner & Jones moved for 1sts & a player, Legwand & Kuraly respectively. Both were young cost controlled goalies. Several years ago Varlamov moved for a 1st & 2nd. We saw Talbot moved & others, recently Darling. The returns weren’t great.

      • I am wondering how complicated protection deals could get.

        For instance, I mentioned above that I think a fair price for Vegas to just pass on Murray while keeping Fleury is their 1st. This would be a 26-30 pick.

        If a team like Winnipeg, who might not be interested in Fleury before the expansion draft, says we do see him being worth our 2nd, 3rd, and this solid B-Prospect after the expansion draft, do you make the deal with Vegas to get enhance a return for Fleury rather than trade him for say a 3rd to someone else just to get a deal done.

        My rationale is that Winnipeg’s 2nd and Pittsburgh’s first have pretty similar value.

        Anyway, I just like spitballing these types of scenarios since we don’t often get these types of interesting scenarios to discuss in the NHL.

      • I’m with you Danny. I far prefer this discussion to beating a trade rumor to death that never comes to fruition. See Stamkos & what has started with Tavares. Lets hope that gets put to bed on July 1st.

        I think paying Vegas Pittsburgh 1st if Vegas agreed to pass on Murray would be a palatable cost for Pittsburgh to pay especially in what is considered to be a weak draft year. They might even add another player into the same pick pre agreeing to the player Vegas gets.

        Or what about Vegas agree’s to pass on Murray selects from the list of players available & the compensation for passing on Murray is Jarry? Nominally more, a 3rd round pick with Jarry, less? Being 11 months younger than Murray what future does he have in Pittsburgh? I would say ZERO.

        Pittsburgh then looks to trade MAF at a later date. Either this summer or down the road as the market determines.

  3. Interesting points here regarding Vegas. As far as I am concerned MacPhee doesn’t owe anybody anything. When seeing the predicament regarding some teams with respect to the expansion draft it looks as though MacPhee has the upper hand on many. Why not use it? If Pittsburgh cannot move Fluery and Murray is available then why not take him? MacPhee it seems has two options; make these deals and acquire picks or stockpile as many effective and ready NHLers as possible and be competitive right away. I suspect he will do the former before the latter and build for the future. And as I have said before depending on how the draft shakes down he may not have much trouble luring free agents, that along with the fact that Vegas would likely be an attractive setting for many players. This could get quite interesting.

    • remember mcfee is playing a game of chicken too. if he drives too hard a bargain then the teams may chose to trade the asset to another team in need and recoup assets instead of giving them up. Take jackets. If Mcfee insists he wants a 1st rounder to not take karlson or wennburg Jackets likely say.. “no thanks, we will send the young buck to so and so instead and get a pick/prospect back AND retain our first.” No Mcfee is out an asset. Now if he had asked for a slightly less valuable return, he gets that return AND a pick of the remaining players jackets expose. For every team that feels vegas asks for too much and trades said player instead Vegas loses an asset… and that’s bad management.

      • True. But he doesn’t have to worry about other teams inability to trade players that they have protection concerns over such as the Fluery, Murray situation. If one of them has to be exposed then MacPhee should feel free to take him. If it gets to that point then as GM he has one very important position on his roster looked after in the short term rather than the long term.

      • but it wont get to that point with the MAF situation. worse case scenario for pens is they buy out MAF. his play this post season makes that highly unlikely. mcfee has only the leverage of hold maf potential buy out cap hit over the pens… worth far less than a young stud goalie.

      • I do see your point more than I would have agreed originally after thinking about it again. However I do think that in certain circumstances Vegas may take a bit of a harder line, just because of the situation, and the drop off in player they take by passing.

        I have been thinking about it, but I wonder how many deals where protection/exposure is used as currency.

        For instance, Vegas just ranks the players it thinks could be available barring trades, but realize that a trade might mean they end up picking their 4th pick off that roster.

        Then Vegas could offer to say, just make this #2 guy available and we will leave the rest of your roster alone so you don’t need to try and make trades.

        This could be a situation like Ottawa’s where it’s hard to protect Methot and the forwards they want. All of this would depend on how they value players internally, but it could be interesting

      • I hear what you are saying, but the market for all these teams is not as open as you are suggesting.
        If Pitts says screw you McP and tries to call Dallas and lean on them for a big haul for either MAF or Murray, Dallas says, hmm tough spot, you need me to take this guy off your hands ok, but I’m not paying that much! Why? Because you are stuck and have no choice.

      • all of these possible trade teams would then just have to protect the player they just traded for. Most of the teams already are protecting the players they want to protect. for 500 mil Macphee should be trying to squeeze the life out of everyone where he can. Demand the highest possible amount for every team looking to protect an extra player. Turn the league upside down. Just go for it he owes needs to be ruthless. At least I hope he goes that way. It would be awful fun.

    • Steven.

      I essentially agree but how he achieves this we differ on. I believe McPhee will take the best player available regardless of salary & his future trade value will factor into it.

      He may choose a veteran player with a 1 year deal remaining from a team that exposes him as the remaining options aren’t great young or not. He then trades that player between now & next years trade deadline getting a better return than at the expansion draft, than he would have from that team.

      George & I discussed this sort of concept about Methot. His value in trade between now & his contract expiring is way more significant than taking a young player like Dzingel. Methot could easily return a decent 1st & prospect at some point. Dzingel is never returning that value.

      Come the trade deadline teams will give up a solid pick or prospect to take a shot at the cup. Happens every year. Numerous teams are going to have holes to fill following the expansion draft as well. Vegas will need leaders & mentors. It won’t all be youth.

      • I agree about the trade part but vegas does not have to draft leaders… cap space will make them a prime spot for FA. They could offer overpaid 1 year deals and move those fa at deadline too.

      • I agree here. If Methot is exposed then Vegas takes him 100%.
        He is an established top two and walks into the top 4 for any NHL team, other than Nashville maybe.

      • Most UFA’s don’t choose losing expansion teams. More than enough bidders from teams that have a chance of winning.

        Methot isn’t a #2 specifically he is Karlsson’s defensive presence on the #1 unit. A solid top 4 NHL Dman. BY TOI/GP he is 4th both in the playoffs & regular season for Ottawa.

        There are a bunch of teams who don’t need Methot in their top 4 but more than enough would be happy to have him as his contract both in dollars & term are very appealing as well.

        The market for Dman even with expansion looming is incredibly strong. Any moved even pre expansion will command a significant return as more wanting than selling.

  4. But having said that I anticipate Pittsburgh will have this looked after so our speculation is probably moot at best anyway.

  5. Drouin being potentially available should be very interesting to a lot of teams. A rumour out of Ottawa during the season revolved around Drouin for Ceci with other pieces being in play. That makes more sense now as Ottawa has defencemen protection issues (i.e. Methot is too good to expose) and Tampa Bay has way too many good forwards. Normally, young defencemen like Ceci aren’t available, but expansion will change this for a handful of teams (Minnesota, Anaheim and Columbus being a few others). If Ottawa protected 4D, they’d lose someone like Brassard which is too much as well.

    Given Ottawa’s depth in young expansion proof defenceman (Chabot, Harpur, Englund), I’m starting to think Ottawa could afford to give up Ceci if it meant getting Drouin. This could help both teams as TB would clearly have Ceci as their third protected defenceman behind Hedman and Stralman, and Ottawa would improve their top 7 forwards and lose someone like Dzingel or Ryan (doubtful given contract). I’m assuming Ottawa would protect Hoffman, Turris, Stone, Brassard, Smith, Pageau and Drouin in this scenario. TB would help their cap situation and would also not lose anyone of consequence (maybe Brown, Paquette or Coburn).

    I’m not saying this would be a one for one trade, but it is pretty close to even value given high value of defencemen plus Drouin’s upcoming contract vs. Ceci’s great value next year. Thoughts?

    • I like that idea Van. Just hope Dorion and Yzerman can see the mutual benefits.

    • Ottawa just solved it’s D issue; acquiring Phaneuf, & now expansion is breaking it down. You can’t expect to be a playoff team with out 2 solid pairings at a minimum. None of these kids are ready for top 4 roles.

      If you look at the remaining 8 teams in the playoffs Ottawa included their top 4 log huge minutes. Several teams have the luxury of rolling 3 solid pairings but few. Anh & Was although the #3 pairing of Shatty & Orpik has been incredibly disappointing.

      If Methot & Ryan are exposed I assume Vegas will select Methot. Should Ottawa find away to protect 4 Dman or trade Methot before expansion. I see Vegas taking Ryan if even exposed. Salary an all.

      I see no scenario where Ottawa moves Ceci a future #2 Dman; 2nd in TOI/GP for Ott now in the playoffs, for a forward even 1 like Drouin. Just turned 23, has 283 NHL regular season games under his belt & just keeps getting better. That’s 117 games from his break thru point for me. 1 & a 1/2 more seasons. If Karlsson walks as a UFA as Ottawa isn’t willing to open the vault Ceci is their future #1 leaning more to defense than offense or at the very least a 1st pairing Dman.

      He struggled this year having to carry Phaneuf. No easy feat for anyone just ask Gardner.

      • I watch Ottawa a lot (live and on TV) and Ceci will be at best a #2 and at worst a very good second pairing defenceman. I don’t see him as a #1 given his lack of offence and also don’t see him developing into the next Brent Seabrook. You’re also underrating Phaneuf as he has been better defensively than Ceci this year, not worse.

        I’d be very surprised if Ottawa didn’t keep Karlsson long term based on everything I’ve heard. Ottawa is already maneuvering their cap space to ensure they have more than enough to resign him and keep a competitive team (ex. Methot’s contract expiring at the same time, acquiring Brassard who’s contract expires at the same time). If Ottawa does have another future #1 defenceman, it’s Thomas Chabot, not Ceci. Personally, I think one of the main reasons Chabot wasn’t kept in the NHL this year was to slide his contract and have a year remaining on his ELC once Karlsson’s new contract kicks in at $10M+.

      • Van.

        I assume Ottawa will make every effort to resign Karlsson & open the vault to do so next summer, whether he chooses to stay is yet to be determined. Might come down to if he ever feels Ottawa is a legitimate cup contender but he has been treated very well in Ottawa as he deserves to be & should stay if paid as the highest Dman in the NHL at point of signing.

        I didn’t watch Ottawa enough this year to tell you who played better defensively between Ceci & Phaneuf. I do know that Phaneuf’s zone starts are more beneficial. 5% more in the O zone, 5% less in the D zone. Boucher hockey although positive in the win loss column isn’t entertaining to watch. I certainly have in the playoffs being a Bruins fan.

        I will defer to your opinion. Not all #1 Dman for their respective teams are their #1 offensive Dman, depending upon how you classify a #1. For me it’s who plays the most TOI/GP unless we are talking seconds in variance. Most yes but certainly not all. Boston; Chara, Carolina; Slavin, Columbus; Jones, NJ; Greene, Philadelphia; Provorov, StL; Pietrangelo, Toronto; Reilly & Vancouver; Edler. All lead their teams at TOI/GP but not points.

  6. How much of a market is there for MAF? Teams who may not want to expose there up and comer. Looking thru every teams goaltenders I count 4. Buff, Phil, WPG and Cal and a maybe to Ana. Buf, Lehner has 1yr left but an rfa does Buff see him as a #1? What direction are they going? and does MAF solve them issues? Phil Steve Mason one year left an is a UFA, anybody see Pitts and Phil making a straight up deal? Winnipeg, they have their potential #1 in Connor Helleybuck , could certainly use Fluery as a stop gap until Helleybuck is ready for a 60 game season, but then they would have to expose him. Calgary they got no goaltenders so nothing to lose. Best landing spot for Fluery, but maybe Cal is waiting for Ben Bishop. Outside look Anaheim only if they think MAF can take them to the promise land in 2yrs and that Gibson can’t. Lastly Las Vegas, they have no goaltenders and Fluery be a nice way to start they inaugural season off with. Of course all this comes with MAF NMC and he would have to waive it to go. In the end imo it will tough to move MAF, the best two choices are Cal and LV, otherwise its a buyout and I don’t see Pitts wanted to carry dead cap space. I don’t see exposing Murray as an option but it is one.

    • Winnipeg wouldn’t be making that trade pre-expansion because they would lose Helleybuck by protecting Fleury. Dallas will likely be in the mix and buy out one of Lehtonen or Niemi first. Calgary makes a lot of sense, but I don’t see Pittsburgh and Philly making that trade. NY Islanders could happen too if Greiss goes the other way as it would still be a significant cap savings for Pittburgh between Fleury and Greiss. Greiss would be an excellent backup, though paid too much for that roll.

    • The market for Fluery may very well expand based on his playoff performance this season if it continues despite the many great points you make. Teams may decide to get creative regardless of their situation if they see Fluery as an improvement in goal.

    • Dallas. if they solve the current riddle. Car if they want a darling MAF combo. Van if they don’t trust markstrom. Col if they don’t trust varly.

    • Only 2 teams need a goalie before expansion, possibly 3 if you consider Carolina needing 1 as Darling is a UFA, although on your thoughts I think Carolina may protect Ultshuller then sign Darling after the expansion draft. Calgary & Dallas appear to be the only 2 pre expansion. Neither has a goalie worth protecting. Calgary doesn’t even currently have 1 as Gillis is apparently exempt as someone posted here as is everyone else in the system but McCollum who I assume is the goalie they have available to expose as required.

      Following expansion the market for a goalie returns to normal. Several other teams are in need. A team like Carolina might be well served to trade for MAF pre expansion if the cost is reasonable send back Pittsburgh’s 2nd round pick from the Hainsey trade, then look to trade him post expansion when the supply & demand dynamics change & he would have better trade value.

      • Fleury didn’t make sense to Carolina he is an avg goalie making to much money

  7. A team can protect only so many players from the expansion draft, and that fact compounds the Penguins’ problems in dealing with the Fleury situation. If Vegas forces a Fleury trade by rejecting a Pittsburgh offer to protect Murray, or if the Penguins choose to trade either goalie, the Penguins must acquire assets that don’t require protection and, since they must expose a goalie, a goalie that they don’t care to protect if they are to benefit from the trade. If they don’t, they will have to expose a much better player than they would have otherwise.

    • PIT should trade MAF to Dallas for Niemi and a 2nd. It enables PIT to protect Murray and give them a vet backup, not to mention a 2nd round pick. Dallas will expose Kari to LV most likely leading to Kari as a backup this season until his contract expires the next.

      win-win

      • That’s a likely outcome, and I believe Spector suggested a Fleury-Niemi trade earlier this year. If that doesn’t happen, maybe a trade in which the Penguins would give up one protection-grade player and a Fleury for another protection-grade player would be in order.

      • You’d have to think that Pittsburgh has that deal in it’s back pocket, they can really make that any time they want.
        Ditto with moving Fleury to the flames.

        Bishop might be the prize of the UFA market but his salary demands will be high, he has an injury history and is coming off a really bad season. I’m thinking most teams right now would want Fleury

      • I don’t see getting Niemi as a win for Pit. They can’t afford his 4.5 cap hit. 1.75 isn’t enough cap savings. They can sign Niemi as a UFA when he’s bought out for a mil, mil 5 but far better options will be available.

        The only win in that trade is Dallas.

      • 1.75 cap saving, keeping Murray, and a 2nd round pick isn’t good enough?…ok

      • JB Burton.

        I think they will keep Murray. Get a 2nd & a B grade prospect & fee up his entire 5.75. The prospect being several years from playing in the NHL & expansion draft exempt. That’s if the prospect even ever makes it to the NHL.

        That’s 4 million better than taking on Niemi for 1 year in said deal.The real befit coming from getting MAF off the team & his cap hit. Any other return is almost secondary.

  8. Another proposal;
    M. Sergachev,N. beaulieu,M. McCarron and 1st rd pick in 2018

    For

    S. Reinhart and M. Foligno

    • I watched Sergachev play at the rookie tournament last fall and if I’m Montreal I’m not trading him for anything. He’s going to be a star. And enough with the Penguins keeping MAF scenarios everyone! It’s not happening. It’s fun to be nostalgic but keeping MAF and tearing Murray would be an unforgivable bungle. Murray is going to be the best goalie in the NHL one day soon. MAF is a very average goalie who makes average saves look good because of his flopping around. This is his Penguins swan song and we appreciate his raising his trade value.

      • Only people being nostalgic are the ones that don’t explore all options this offseason including trading Murray. So far he has been great and shown a lot of promise but he also has been hurt to start both playoffs he’s been a part of and to start his rookie season. He also has a weak glove hand. Maf is far from an average goalie when he is the number 1 guy. Am I betting on pens trading Murray? No. But if an offer comes by that’s uber tempting it would be stupid not to explore it.

      • “Tony” is a troll.

      • We disagree on Fleury’s abilities & not nostalgic but I believe MAF will be traded before the expansion draft to someone some all this talk is meaningless but it’s the discussion of the day.

        I don’t care how Fleury stops the puck, just that he does. Hasek wasn’t pretty. Like a fish out of water but 1 of the best goalies to play in the NHL. Fuhr wasn’t exactly the most proficient either but he won when he had to.

      • I put it at

        Pens trade maf pre expansion for small return- 75%
        Pens trade asset to Vegas to not take Murray- 15%
        Pens trade Murray- 5%
        Other-5%

  9. I find the upcoming expansion draft fascinating. The dynamics in play & how it will all play out are incredibly interesting & I look forward to repeating the process again in a few years with Quebec. With them commencing play no later than the 2021-22 season probably far sooner. Certainly before the next lock out.

    The fact the NHL made the protection rules far more stringent than in any previous expansion & only granted 1 expansion team is a whole new ball game. It gives McPhee & Vegas leverage that has never existed in previous expansions. No other team to muddy the waters in negotiations between Vegas & the other 30 teams & not really even a draft like in past expansions. Teams submit their protected rosters on June 17th, Vegas it’s selection list on the 19th & the NHL announces the selections as part of the awards ceremony on the 21st.

    Expansion helps to balance out the league some what. The have teams losing more than the have nots. It also allows teams the flexibility to lose a player in expansion they might otherwise have to pay a team to take off their hands in a non expansion summer to help free up cap space & I’m not just talking huge money contracts on long term deals.

  10. lyle, i am watching all the playoff games and have noticed that boarding and charging are never called. players are risking serious injury when a guy skates almost across the rink with the intention of removing anothers spleen. similarly have you noticed how often the blades of sticks are jammed into a players face. these guys have become goons auditioning for FACE OFF 3.the nil needs to assess a 3 or 4 minute penalty for high sticking and assess penalties for boarding and charging. todays hockey is disgusting.