Updates on the Canucks & Flyers – May 8, 2017

by | May 8, 2017 | Rumors | 41 comments

Don’t expect the Vancouver Canucks to trade the Sedin twins this summer.

Should the Vancouver Canucks shop the Sedin twins? Should the Philadelphia Flyers move Sean Couturier? Read on for the latest. 

THE PROVINCE: Jeff Paterson believes it makes no sense from any angle for the Vancouver Canucks to trade aging stars Daniel and Henrik Sedin. With this year’s Stanley Cup playoffs once again reminding us the postseason is a young man’s game, he doubts there’s any NHL general manager who thinks adding “a pair of soon to be 37-year-olds is what his team is missing to get it over the hump.”

Paterson doesn’t think there’s a GM willing to part with draft picks or prospects to acquire the duo. He also points out the twins hold no-movement clauses and say they want to remain with the Canucks for as long as the team wants them, while management stated they won’t move the duo unless they ask to be dealt. 

SPECTOR’S NOTE: While I think there could be some interest in the Sedins by next year’s trade deadline, especially if they put up decent numbers, I doubt there’s a deal to be had. While they’re still effective forwards, their best seasons are now well behind them. Sure, never say never, but I expect the Sedins will play out the final season of their contracts with the Canucks. 

CSNNE.COM: Tom Dougherty, Jordan Hall, and Greg Paone agree the Philadelphia Flyers shouldn’t trade their first-round pick (second overall) in this year’s NHL Draft. While they expect GM Ron Hextall could listen to offers, they don’t believe he’ll move that selection, believing he’ll use it to select Nolan Patrick or Nico Hischier. 

The trio also discussed the theory that having that second-overall pick could make center Sean Couturier expendable. While this scenario is an intriguing possibility, they feel Couturier isn’t going anywhere. Instead, he’ll likely start the season as the Flyers’ third-line center, where he seemed to thrive after the club acquired Valtteri Filppula at the trade deadline. 

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Couturier is also signed through 2021-22 at an annual cap hit of $4.33 million. That’s a lot of money to invest in a potential third-line center. Still, he provides invaluable two-way depth for the Flyers. If they select Patrick or Hischier,  either could blossom into a first- or second-line center. They could then keep Couturier on the third line.  

 








41 Comments

  1. According to NHL.com, when a trade is made at trade deadline day “the salary that is charged against a team’s cap is the pro rated amount remaining of the player’s average yearly salary. For example, if a player has an average yearly salary of $2 million, the amount charged against the acquiring team’s cap is the pro-rated amount remaining of $2 million. This is calculated by dividing $2 million by the number of days in the season (186). The amount ($10,753) is then multiplied by the number of days remaining in the season from the day the trade is made (42 days if trade is on Feb. 28) to ascertain the amount charged against the team’s cap ($451,613).”

    So let’s say some team sees the addition of the Sedins at trade deadline day 2018 as the key to a possible Cup and the twins are agreeable to a deal – given their combined cap hit of $14,000,000, in their case that would work out to roughly $3,161,298. I would venture a guess that any team that seriously sees themselves as a legitimate Cup winner would already be at or very close to the cap limit so accommodating them would be problematic in most cases. I suppose it COULD happen if the Canucks withhold a good chunk of what’s left (is that permissible in such deadline deals for cap calculation purposes??) – but in that scenario the package going to the Canucks would have to be a doozy.

    • Good points George.
      There are always some overachieving teams with cap space. For example the Leafs this year, but they didn’t have an issue with scoring, defense was the concern.
      However, looking at a team like Nashville that had about 3.5M in space and were struggling to score in Jan/Feb, they would probably be the sort of team that would have at least looked at the sedins if their contract ended in 2017.
      There might be another team in a similar situation next year.

      • I could see next season’s bubble teams sniffing around the twins. Trying to move them together makes it seem impossible, but an sufficiently motivated team that thought they needed the Sedins would find a way to shoehorn them onto the roster. My guess, though, is that the Sedins stay where they are because they’re probably not really worth what would be asked for them. Vancouver rebuilding means they’d want some high draft picks and/or prospects, and, while you could certainly get that for an aging vet, it almost feels like you’d have to take that for both of them. Bottom line, it just doesn’t feel worth it for the Canucks to move them or someone else to acquire them.

      • Good example of a possible scenario to take both.

    • If the package includes a roster player or two coming back that could balance some of the money out

      • That’s also a viable result – but it’s hard to get a read on just what the Canucks are planning. If it’s a true re-build and that trade happens I don’t think they’d want anyone who’s been in the league for a while and a middle-of-the-road contributor but rather top-of-the-line prospects. On the other hand, if they still believe they can turn thing around by further tinkering, then such a deal may be the way they go. Meanwhile, mgt remains mum on their long-term plans.

      • Top of the line plural is a stretch. But most teams would have to make room on middle six for them so a decent roster player making decent money plus a good prospect plus a pick or two might do it.

  2. The Canucks should have shopped the Sedin twins long ago! I have been saying this forever; however, the never will! Some of even think they should sign them for a couple more seasons after this contract! Sheesh. A true rebuild means you move on from your main core and see what assets you can get for them. In Vancouver’s case it’s the Sedins. Until they trade them or don’t re- sign them let’s not put Vancouver in the true rebuild category. Now having said all that I do think the Sedins are great players and can see why they might keep them, but the team will not be better with them in the lineup. So they might as well get some assets moving forward. I think they can still get a decent return for these two. So New Jersey takes Nolan Patrick and adds the Sedins with some money staying in Vancouver and all of a sudden you have the Sedins with Hall and those three show the new kid the ropes! Just sayin’.

    • Shero isn’t going to be interested in doing that because they have young kids they want to get in the lineup. Wood, Blandisi, Quenville, Zacha and either Nolan or Nico…. Add to that the fact that you still have Hall, Henrique, Palmieri, Zajac and there just isn’t room for the two of them. And on top of that all the Kovalchuk intrigue and I just don’t see it. Yes, Jersey has the cap space, but I don’t think they are going to use it on 2 37 year old forwards

      • Oh I realize that. It was just an example, and the reality is moving the Sedins is very difficult. But not re signing them when the contract is done is where Vancouver needs to proceed. Services rendered; contract done. Move on.

    • This brings me back to my argument about teams like Boston & SJ. That being not all teams are in a position to just tear it down. All similarities to Boston & SJ stop there. Vancouver can’t just unravel the mess they have created for themselves. With the Sedin’s, Sutter, Eriksson, a terrible signing for a team that should have started rebuilding 2 years ago. Who’s running this team? What’s the plan? The prospect kitty is virtually bare. Vancouver is years from being competitive now & it’s going to get alot worse before it gets better.

      The Sedin’s will retire Canucks. They won’t be accepting trades anywhere even for 5 & a 1/2 weeks after the trade deadline for a cup run with another team. These families are fully entrenched in Vancouver. They have very young families, schools, there wives both work in the community as do the Sedin’s. They will retire in Vancouver only returning to Sweden in the summers when the kids are out of school. Like they do now.

      They either gets extensions or retire after next season.

  3. I think the Sedin’s will be resigned before these deals expire for at least 1 year probably 2. They will have to accept a decline in ice time & responsibility.

    The Cancuks have no players ready to replace the Sedin’s by the 2018-19 season. Considering the Canucks are being forced to protect them due to their NMC’s it also doesn’t make sense to me to let them walk after 1 more season.

    Let Horvat’s line assume 1st line duties next season moving the Sedin’s to a 2nd line role & over the final year or 2 into a 3rd line roles as the Canucks prospects are ready to take on more responsibility. The Canucks aren’t priming with forward prospects they have few & acquiring them is going to take time.

    This is now year 1 of the rebuild. It started with Burrows & Hansen being moved.

    • I think so too. And they wouldn’t hurt the Canucks, or any other team for that matter. I just think it’s worth exploring what assets you can get for them.

      I don’t think Vancouver should feel they have to re sign them.

  4. I don’t see Filppula playing ahead of Couturier at least not in TOI/GP next season. Most teams are trying to ice some form of 3 scoring lines, both will get at least 1 decent winger.

    Philadelphia will essentially ice 3 solid pairings with these 6 forwards. Giroux, Voracek, Couturier, Simmonds, Filppula & Schenn. 1 of these pairings will get Koneckny, the other 2 wingers for the top 3 lines aren’t as appealing, Weise, Raffl, Read, Weal or Cousins, although 1 of these forwards will be lost in expansion I assume. The Flyers have room to protect 1 of them & I assume that will be Raffl.

    I have Couturier as a breakthrough candidate next season, The biggest concern being his ability to stay healthy. 416 NHL regular season games played.

    Odd he can’t stay healthy at 6’3″. Sorry George.

    • LOL. No problem. Never said big players can’t have an injury history – but I would venture a bet that, all considered, the frequency of injuries suffered by the “smurfs” is far greater than that by the big guys.

      • George you may well be right. Never saw the need to research it but as we have discussed before physics to some extent supports your argument.

        I just don’t consider size to be that much an issue. There is a movement afoot to generate more speed both at forward & D with transitional Dman. These players for the most part tend to be smaller. The NHL covets size & skill & if you have both you will be a star for sure but the skill side of the equation is leaning to more smaller players returning to the game. It had completely swung to size in the clutch & grab era.

        The day of the Doug Gilmour type player appears to be returning to the NHL, slowly but teams aren’t just dismissing this player any more. 5’10” 175lbs soaking wet to start the season. About a buck 60 when it ends.

      • Bigger they are the harder they fall aint stuck around as long as it has because it don’t have no kernel of truth.

      • That phrase refers to the distance they have to fall to hit the ground with the upper parts of their bodies as opposed to frequency of injuries. A 6′ 9″ Zdeno Chara’s head is going to hit the ice with a far greater impact than, say, that of a 5′ 9″ Johnny Gaudreau! LOL

    • pretty sure big e could not stay healthy and he was a monster of a man at 6-4 240. not sure why your size has anything to do w your health…

      The Flyers supposed 3rd line at the end of the yr was Weiss, Couturier and Schenn. That line was outstanding. One of the better lines in hockey the last two or three weeks and was getting better. Designating between who plays second and third line is media soap opera stuff. It does not matter. If Schenn continues to play on the right side of Couturier, both will be successful 5 on 5.

      Couturier needs to scrape 5 or 10 more points a yr to justify his salary in todays nhl. Not that far fetched.

      • He’ll be hard-pressed to do that playing 3rd line minutes though.

      • I agree Joe.

        George you need to look at total minutes played & where those minutes were played. Couturier still logged more TOI/GP than Filppula after his arrival significantly more. I didn’t run all 20 games that Filppula played in Philly just the last 10. Filppula just edged Couturier out in TOI/GP in 2 of the 10. In the other 8 Couturier logged 3 to almost 5 minutes more per game & both played on the 2nd PP unit & their PP time almost identical.

        This need to pigeon hole players by line or Dman by 1, 2, 3 etc. doesn’t really work well any longer in the NHL. J. Stall is Carolina’s #3 C but gets 1st line PP time & logs more TOI/GP played than any forward on the team. Cogliano plays as the #2 LW in Anh but see’s no PP time but gets 1st unit PK time.

        Seabrooke plays 2nd pairing in Chicago, does that make him a #3 or 4 Dman? No, he is Chicago’s #2 & on many teams in the NHL would be a #1. Or Anh again they spread their Dman out over 3 pairings. Vatanen played 3rd pairing tons does that make him a 5 or 6 guy?

        Ice time in the NHL now is spread over 3 lines fairly equally, what separates TOI/GP between 1st to 3rd liners is PP TOI/GP & SH TOI/GP. The difference at ES isn’t that significant at least not on any good teams.

        Couturier wasn’t the #3 in Philly even after Filppula was acquired, he was the #2 & will continue to be. The fact the 3 Philly scribes don’t see that or get it is odd. For me no better reflection of a players position on his team than TOI/GP & how he’s deployed on special teams. That’s how I value a players position on a teams roster. Not saying my way is right but seems to me that if you play more your team values you more.

      • Striker,

        I agree with that assessment. Teams are more willing to spread the ice around pretty evenly, and look at things differently than the old top 6 bottom 6 model 1st/2nd/3rd pairing.

        I think it’s almost a little more complicated overall, or at least a little more broken down.

        I think GMs and coaches view it more through the lens of situational roles. They need guys that can take regular shifts, guys capable of playing against, and slowing down top tier competition, PP guys, PK guys etc. Sometimes teams are lucky enough to have guys that are their best player in every situation (Doughty, Burns, Hedman, Bergeron, Getzlaf, O’Reilly etc), other times teams separate roles.

        Anaheim’s D is a great example of this. Manson is a top pairing guy for 5 on 5 and PK, but doesn’t get much PP time so overall he ranks 4th in TOI/G because Vatanten who plays the same minutes roughly 5 on 5 and some PK gets extra time on the PP. That doesn’t mean Manson isn’t valued more overall, as the quality of the minutes played is much higher, and harder to find D who can play them well.

        Breaking up these roles is going to become more and more important to fill in more teams in the league competitively in a cap environment. While getting those bonafide all situations guys is great, sometimes trying to force that role on a player not capable either leads to overpaying a guy or playing him outside their capabilities.

    • Flyers are penciling in Oscar Lindhom from Sweden as a top 9 forward as well.

      • Scott.

        Not to say he can’t but Philly has roster issues. I’m a reluctant prospect guy but accept that numerous come out of no where just projecting them is hard. Can Lindblom a 5th round selection in 2014 who has no contract as we speak, although did play 8 games in the AHL in 2015-16 step into the NHL next season?

        Why didn’t he stay in NA? Home sick? I don’t see him stepping in any time soon but he wouldn’t be the 1st to do so & it’s not impossible.

        I don’t see him playing ahead of Raffl, Schenn or Konecny on the left side. I have Wiese as a RW with Voreck & Simmonds there as well. If you want to flip flop Schenn & Weise that seems like the top 9 are locked up to me.

        That doesn’t account for Read who I assume is bought out, nor Cousins, Weal, Vecchione, Lyubimov, Bellemare or VandeVelde. Where does Lindblom fit in there?

        Always reminds me of a great saying from JJ Richards, a radio personality in Canada now retired, used to be the MC for the Timmy’s Telethon as well. He said. “There’s always room at the top.” A very true statement. If your truly ready have skill & can play most teams will make room.

  5. When Sedin trades are discussed, speculators always speak of the twins as a unit, possibly because they have always been that. However, they are twins; there are two of them. If both or either of them would agree to be traded by himself, perhaps to go to a Cup contender needing a player at one of their respective positions, the opportunity for a trade would increase considerably. Perhaps, that would be Vancouver’s only opportunity. Would the Sedins consider this? The possibility of winning the Cup on the last year of your playing career is an exciting enticement. As for the Canucks, they won’ts be contenders with or without the Sedins. Slightly better doesn’t count.

    • HA. I was thinking the same exact thing. Pretty ridiculous if they refuse to go anywhere without the other. They love Vancouver so much but that will really hamstring the team for even more years to come

    • Judging from their history they won’t ever agree to a separation. They made it clear back in 1999 that, if drafted by different teams, they might not even report. The draft order in 1999 was TB at # 1, Atlanta at # 2, Vancouver at # 3, and Chicago at # 4.

      In Vancouver the blustering Burke used that bluster effectively to get some of the other teams uneasy by proclaiming that, regardless of the twins intentions, he was picking one in the 3rd spot if one was still there and worry about their intent on remaining together later. Whether or not he would have actually gone down that road is unknown, of course,in light of what happened.

      He began the convoluted chain of events by dealing D-man McCabe and a future 1st round pick to Chicago for their 1st round pick (4th). With 2 of the top 5 picks, and to make certain neither Tampa nor Atlanta would take a gamble and pick one of the twins, and gambling that Dudley would be nervous enough about taking a chance on one of the twins, he then dealt 2 later round picks AND Chicago’s # 4 to Tampa in order to get their 1st pick and then sent a pick to Atlanta to allow the Thrashers to move to number one with an assurance they would not pick a Sedin. That left Vancouver with the number two and three choices and the rest, as they say is history.

      I really don’t see them agreeing to a separation now just so that one of them gets a Cup. Being Swedes they don’t have that same Cup mania possessed by Canadians.

    • To be Ernest with you Frank the Sedins seem to be viewed by everybody as one. Maybe they have portrayed themselves that way. This two people in one body image really limits Vancouver’s ability to do anything with them. Sorry to be so “Curt” about this!

  6. I’ve always wanted to fit Frank, Ernest, and Curt into a joke! Thanks Frank!

    • I like the humor. If I can some day think of something as funny, I’ll get Even, Steven.

  7. I am still angry over the draft lottery. Nothing more than the American owners controlling the NHL. The Canucks have been screwed by the the NHL since day 1. Canada needs to take back control of the league.

    • Didn’t the Leafs and Winnipeg do all right in the lottery last year?

      • I think someone needs to tell the Oilers that it’s rigged and Canadian teams don’t win the draft lottery…. cause they missed the memo.

    • Ha-ha! Soon to be 31 teams. 7 in Canada. The original 6, 4 in the US 2 in Canada.

      The league has a Constitution & Bylaws just like any other corporation, essentially a democracy as agree to by all members equally. It’s employee’s work under a negotiated CBA between the NHL & NHLPA.

      There is no US conspiracy. I was a Canucks season ticket holder for over 25 years, gave them up after last season. You want to blame someone for the Vancouver Canucks plight. Look no further than the Canucks. 1 of the worst draft records historically in the NHL, some brutal management decisions & the current owners should stop meddling in hockey operations. The Aquilini’s time as owners hasn’t been great. They bought a solid team & have completely mismanaged it.

      Just 1 persons opinion just quite different than yours.

    • If you mean that you would like the NHL to remove everything from it that is American, you are inviting the U.S. to form its own league. The players will go to where the money is. Guess which league the players will go to.

      • Well …the money will be in Canada considering it’s 7 teams account for over 40% of league revenue

      • The only difference being TV money. Somehow I don’t see an all-U.S. league surviving long without the millions poured into it by Canadian TV because in that country, to use one recent description, hockey ranks not only far far behind football, basketball (both pro and college) and baseball in terms of TV markets, but also somewhere south of competitive eating – at least outside the big long-time centres like Boston, Detroit, NY and Chicago. Joining them would be the Pennsylvania teams, St. Louis, Minnesota and to a lesser degree, L.A. (TV interest that is – not live gates). The Florida teams, Phoenix, Denver, Dallas, San Jose, Nashville, Carolina, NJ are a virtual wasteland in terms of generating any significant TV interest – certainly in comparison to Canada.

        It’s all pie-in-the-sky of course, but the current 7 Canadian teams augmented by second franchises in each of the GTA and Montreal, Quebec City and maybe even Saskatoon/Regina and Nova Scotia would eventually ice pretty strong franchises ion terms of calibre by the simple fact that, whatever is left to form a separate U.S. league, can only employ so many players each. They would also need to continue with a hard cap since there is no way the Florida teams, Carolina, Nashville, etc. could compete with the big spenders in a wide open structure such as baseball and basketball.

        It’s fun to speculate – but it ain’t gonna happen.

      • Relying on the numbers provided by others, without researching them for verification:

        1. Forty percent of of League revenue is received from seven Canadian teams. That leaves 60% that is not. Expansion has added one U.S. based team in Vegas and another is likely to follow soon in Seattle, which has a metropolitan area population of 3.53 million. That suggests that the difference in revenue generation is likely to increase, accelerated not only by the number of franchises, but by the rapidly increasing interest in hockey in the U.S., manifested in its fast-increasing number of players.

        2. According to numbers supplied by George O., Winnipeg has the smallest population of any Canadian city with an NHL team, around 900,000. Quebec City, which could receive an NHL franchise, may not receive one because it has an even smaller population. The remaining Canadian cities would be hard-pressed to provide an audience sufficient to overcome the population and consequent revenue advantage of their neighbor below.

        3.The game-changer might be the salary cap, which would not be dependent on the value of Canadian currency, whhich according to George O, is about 60% of the American dollar.

        I’m not trying to champion one country over the other, I just want to substantiate my opinion. In truth, I feel that hockey as presented by the NHL has a certain nobility attached to it because, at least in a small way, it unites Canada and America. Each country plays the other’s national anthem when their teams play, and teams from both counties comprise players from the other, and the players compete without regarding nationality. I wouldn’t want that to change. In fact, I wish that the NHL would expand into Mexico. Then, the North American continent could be one happy fraternity.

      • Nice summation Frank. Although I’m not so sure about Mexico City where being bumped off is at a higher % than winning the frikken lottery. If that were a viable location for a pro franchise, and with its huge population, baseball would have been there years ago. I think players would look at being dealt to Mexico City right up there with Vladivostok!

    • How many #1s have gone to Edmonton again?

      • LOL. I think, to be fair to Jack Peake, that his post was born out of sheer frustration at seeing his team spiraling down the loo for the past 3/4 years. When you reach the point of utter despair you begin lashing out at all sorts of imaginary shadows while avoiding the core reason. Simply put, they’ve been badly managed and Trevor Linden is, clearly, no Brendan Shanahan.