NHL Rumor Mill – June 7, 2017

by | Jun 7, 2017 | Rumors | 65 comments

Trade speculation continues to swirl about Edmonton Oilers right wing Jordan Eberle.

Latest on Jordan Eberle and Evander Kane in your NHL rumor mill.

EDMONTON JOURNAL:  On Monday, David Staples noted TSN’s recent trade-bait list included right-shot defensemen such as Sami Vatanen, Jonas Brodin, Matt Dumba and Travis Hamonic. He wondered if the Oilers could peddle right wing Jordan Eberle for one of the notables on that list, especially one of those blueliners.

If they do, they’ll likely wait until after the expansion draft as landing another defenseman could leave the Oilers having to protect four blueliners, raising the risk of losing a forward in the draft and potentially weakening their depth at right wing.

If Eberle is shopped, Staples suspects it’ll take place after the expansion draft and to teams with salary-cap space that lost scoring depth in that draft. Swapping Eberle for another forward could also be an option.

Staples followed up on Tuesday, noting TSN’s Darren Dreger maintains his insistence that Eberle was definitely getting traded. While GM Peter Chiarelli has received some offers he hasn’t had one yet than he’s willing to accept yet. “Just for fun”, Dreger suggested swapping Eberle for Hamonic.

Oilers insiders Bob Stauffer and Mark Spector also discussed Eberle’s trade status, suspecting the “change is good” theme for Eberle could be “agent speak.”  Stauffer also agreed with suggestions from listeners to his show that shipping Eberle for a lesser, more affordable forward, such as the Islanders’ Ryane Strome, might make sense.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: I believe Chiarelli is keen to move Eberle, either for a defenseman or another right winger, to shed the winger’s $6 million cap hit (or as much of it as possible) in order to clear cap space to re-sign Leon Draisaitl this summer and Connor McDavid before next summer.

I agree with Staples that it makes more sense to move Eberle after the expansion draft, though maybe Chiarelli is looking at some wheeling and dealing with the Vegas Golden Knights to ensure they don’t pick an exposed player the Oilers prefer to keep. Perhaps Eberle’s agent is stoking the trade chatter but we don’t know that for sure. I expect we haven’t heard the last of the Eberle trade chatter. 

WGR 550: Howard Simon believes the timing is perfect for the Buffalo Sabres to trade left wing Evander Kane. He points out the Sabres’ need to bolster their blueline and considers the 25-year-old winger the best trade chip to address that issue, though he also suggests the Sabres might have to toss in a top prospect or their first-round pick (eighth overall) in this year’s draft.

While acknowledging the Sabres would lose an asset by trading Kane, his value is high right now. He is also eligible next summer for UFA status and could seek a significant raise over his current six-year, $31.5-million deal. He wonders if Kane could fetch a quality d-man such as Jake Muzzin of the Los Angeles Kings.

VANCOUVER SUN: Ben Kuzma wonders if the Vancouver Canucks are ready to make a trade for Kane. He notes the winger would bring proven scoring skills to a Canucks club lacking those attributes at left wing. Offering up Chris Tanev ($4.45 million cap hit) would financially justify acquiring Kane in the short term, though it could make it difficult to re-sign other players next summer.

While Kane has made headlines for his selfish and stubborn behavior off the ice, he does have his defenders who believe the Vancouver native would respond well to more structure. Kuzma concludes that if Kane has finally turned the corner off the ice, it could be worthwhile for the Canucks to at least kick the tires on a trade.

FANRAG SPORTS NETWORK: Chris Nichols cites Bob McKenzie telling Vancouver’s TSN 1040 yesterday that he’s unsure of the Canucks’ interest in Kane. He points out the club twice expressed interest in Kane. The first time the Sabres weren’t that keen on moving the winger. The second time, talks moved along for a while they suddenly ended. McKenzie believes it was the Canucks bringing those discussions to a halt. He adds he knows a number of teams have shown some interest in Kane but he doesn’t know if the Canucks are among them.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: This might be a good time to move Kane, but it appears the Sabres’ asking price will be a top-four defenseman such as Muzzin or Tanev. It’s also possible the Sabres could move Kane to one club for another asset, which they could flip to a third club for a blueliner.

There’s no denying Kane’s skills are enticing, but his previous off-ice escapades and his UFA status next summer could hurt his trade value. As with Eberle, Kane is likely to remain a fixture in the rumor mill over the next several weeks. 



  1. Kids Mature… No way Kane straight up Tanev who has averaged 49 games over 7 seasons. How are the Sabres liking Kulikov ?…
    If Eberle can be moved for anything reasonable they will pull the trigger. They need his salary more than they need him as a player

    • Your right there is no way Vancouver moves Tanev for Kane.

      You have painted a very odd picture being very selective in how your reporting the facts. Tanev has only played 7 years of NHL splitting his 1st 2 seasons in the NHL between the NHL & AHL, playing 25 in year 1; 39 in the AHL, 29 in year 2 his rookie year; 34 in the AHL, & the next season 2012-13 was the lockout, he played 38 in the NHL, 29 in the AHL.

      In the last 4 seasons, Tanev’s only 4 full NHL seasons in the NHL he has played 256 games an average of 64 per season. Kane 235 games over those same 4 seasons an average of 58.75 games!

      So your injury issue was? That Kane is more prone to injury than Tanev?

      Just as a point of reference. Kulikov played almost the entire season injured managing to play 47 games & the cost to acquire him wasn’t that extreme as he was facing UFA status this summer. Pysyk a swap of 2nd round picks in 2016 & a 3rd. I like Pysyk but for some reason he was not liked in Buffalo. That said I also like Kulikov although he did have a bad season but that may just have been an injury issue. He is generally capable of playing a top 3 Dman for TOI/GP in a shut down role. Decent bounce back candidate & at 27 when the season starts next year a highly sought after UFA Dman.

  2. So when did Eberle become worth a Vatanen, Brodin, Dumba or Hamonic? Surely Edmonton would have to eat some salary and include a pick or something wouldn’t they? Am I missing something here? I have been on record here on several occasions defending the Hall/ Larsson deal and have also stated that using this as a comparison is
    unfair; however, I can’t help but draw a parallel here!

    And let’s not forget that Edmonton does have a decent defence right now with Nurse, Klefbom, Sekera, Russell, and Benning. They are young and improving. Adding one of these four would certainly not hurt but they won’t get one of them if it is just Eberle straight up.

    • david Staples is an idiot, eberle isnt worth any of those defenders. eberle is an overpaid floater who leeches off the centers he plays with

    • Agreed.

    • If a Leafs fan/writer said Eberle was worth any of those dmen straight up, they would be crucified, I’m wondering how the hockey public will react to this… statement.

  3. None of NYI; Hamonic, Vancouver, Tanev, or LA; Muzzin or Martinez, are being moved straight up in trade for Eberle or Kane. Everyone of these Dman is worth significantly more than the forward, a significant pick, a solid 1st, at a minimum would need to be added, probably more & unless Kane is willing to sign with the club he’s potentially traded to his value facing UFA status 1 year out limits his trade value just as much as his personality flaws.

    I’ll say what I always say. Solid Dman like this rarely if ever move & if they do there are almost always extenuating circumstances & are incredibly rare. Vancouver & LA don’t have any at present, NYI certainly does as do several other teams with Dman & expansion looming but that isn’t bringing the cost down still to many bidders.

    Go look at solid Dman traded & Subban for Weber doesn’t count as a stud Dman was traded for a stud Dman. The cost is insane. Last season, Hall for Larsson, Smith a pending UFA & borderline NHL Dman in Det; healthy scratch often, cost a 2nd & a 3rd. Shattenkirk a 1st & prospects, both UFA’s this summer & unable to be resigned by their respective teams. Gubranson for McCann a 2nd & a 4th. Contract issue wouldn’t sign long term deal for monies Florida could accept so Florida traded him, Phaneuf, salary dump, Reinhart a 1st; 16th overall Barzal, & 2nd; 33rd, Snow parlayed the pick to TB’s 28th pick; Beauvillier & gave up the 72nd to TB previously acquired from Florida, Hamilton a 1st & 2 2nds other than Zadarov a future stud at D moved in the O’Reilly trade everyone 1 of these Dman moved in extenuating circumstances but the cost was still significant.

    No quality Dman in being moved straight up for the quality of forwards being bandied about here. Finding trades where quality Dman moved is incredibly rare & again almost exclusively due to extenuating circumstances with very few exceptions if any. Go try to even find them, it’s not easy.

    • Eberle and Kane don’t have a ton of value. Both might make great buy low candidates, as I think both could prove to be a great value for the team taking them on, the fact remains they are known to be available for known deficiencies, risks, or cap concerns.

      The defensemen available are going to go for fair market value, which is high, but it’s a rare circumstance where we would see a bunch of defensmen traded without having to pay a pry out premium.

      That being said, I think Eberle could be an interesting piece in a trade for Hamonic. NYI is likely going to need to move more salary back, and Edmonton needs to sweeten the pot quite a bit, but I think Eberle is a good buy low type of winger. He is a 60 pt winger who is 25 years old, and it could prove to be a good deal to get some one like that to play with Tavares. Not only that, but if Eberle turns things around, you often see players kind of run out of town tend to be a little extra loyal to the place they turned it around. So they may get a decent value in the long run.

      • I don’t see how NYI can make Eberle’s contract fit. Tavares, Bailey & Hickey are all UFA’s a year out, Nelson & Strome RFA’s. Eberle isn’t the answer in NYI. Yes they get Kulemin, Chimera, Grabovsky; although LTIR & insurance cover his cap hit & a few others off the books next summer but they need a far less expensive option than Eberle as raises will eat up all that cap space.

        Boy wouldn’t Okposo look good in NYI? Oh wait something was a wash there as Snow didn’t even try or couldn’t for some reason.

        NYI will move a Dman before the expansion draft, possibly 2 as Pulock is not exempt from selection. Expansion draft exempt assets coming back in return or players moved to them as part of the trade following the expansion draft. Some teams have room to protect a forward pre expansion & the send it post to complete such a trade.

      • Striker,

        I know we both agree on Boston going after Brodin and Zucker from Minnesota but what about Hamonic for Vatrano & the 2nd from Edmonton for Chiarelli? These teams have trade history and I like Hamonic’s game. This would leave McQuaid and both Millers open for selection, with Colin most likely being grabbed by Vegas

      • The Islanders cap concerns are more short term, as after next year they have only $36M or so committed. While that is before signing Tavares, when looking at their roster, they could certainly have enough flexibility to make it work.

        Edmonton’s cap concerns really start after next season, as they will then be paying Draisatl and McDavid’s new contracts then. To make it work, Edmonton could take on Kulemin’s contract to give NYI flexibility now or will have to eat some of Eberle’s current salary.

        Eberle may not sound like the answer, but the answer isn’t coming. It’s true that getting a winger is a little easier than a defensemen, but elite players in any position just don’t often move. Eberle is a good winger who is capable of 25 goals and 60pts regularly playing with Tavares. There won’t be many available this summer that can do that, so if they can get a deal that makes that work financially, I see it as a worthwhile gamble, especially considering Eberle wont’ be all they get.

      • SH21.

        Would be happy to have Hamonic but would prefer to try & acquire 1 of these really good Dman with out sacrificing a solid young player like Vatrano. Prospects, picks in mass if necessary, even Spooner as part of the deal pre or post expansion depending upon the team Boston might trade with to acquire 1 of these Dman. Boston could protect Spooner for a team confronted with protection issues, Clb, Min or NYI shipping Spooner essentially retroactively following the expansion draft.

    • From 2000 – 2005 on average round 2 players drafted 22.5 have not established an NHL career rnd 3 24 have not established an NHL career and rnd 4 27 have not established an NHL career. This isn’t to say there isn’t any value in these picks because there is; however the majority of the players taken in these rnd were not able to establish an NHL career. When saying a player was traded for a 2nd and 4th rnd pick, although it may sound high, it’s a safe bet to say at least one of them 2 picks isn’t making it to the NHL. If you can get a serviceable player for them picks might be the best move.

      • I agree. I also agree with Shticky’s perspective which was well thought out. Having more high picks significantly improves your chances of hitting on a selection but few teams get to play those cards.

        I’m a firm believer of a bird in the hand for the very reason you state. The chances, odds of probability, that those picks ever become anything in the NHL are very low. For me most people seriously over value picks.

      • pens- rust third round, guentzel third round, murray third round… not that it matters now but letang third round. Shultz second round… not sure where dumo was drafted… these picks matter and while some luck is certainly part of it, having a scouting department and development system is very important.

      • I think the puzzling thing is picks seem to fluctuate in perceived value.

        When Edmonton and Toronto traded picks to get Talbot and Anderson respectively, there were a lot of people saying on each of those trades that they paid too much. While neither goalie was a proven number one, they were controllable assets who had all the makings of a number 1, and were much less of a gamble than trying to draft a goalie. So they basically changed what they gambled on.

        In other cases, you see teams spend their 1st, plus prospects and other picks to get a veteran they didn’t need to play down their depth chart for two months then walk away.

        Stock piling picks is great if it isn’t coming from trading in assets you needed or planned to keep. If you have a veteran that isnt’ in the long term plans, it’s like bumping up your percentages.

        If a 2nd gives you a 25% chance of getting a young solid cost controlled NHLer, and a 7.5% chance of getting you a very good player, then two 2nds gives you just under a 44% chance of getting at least one solid NHLer, a 6.25% chance of getting two, and a 14.4% of getting a very good player (a 0.5% of getting two).

        This has value, especially when recouping assets from a player you likely couldn’t hold onto long term.

        This makes those picks currency, and for some reason it gets viewed as expensive when a decent young player gets traded for 2-3 picks outside of the top 10 in a draft, but later on when teams start just chucking them at the deadline for nothing, you don’t hear much.

      • Chrisms & Danny I essentially agree but it doesn’t change the #’s Caper has provided for every 1 that works there are 15 to 20 that don’t.

        Most goalies are drafted later as it’s a long development curve to the NHL, Schultz although drafted by Anh in the 2nd round was signed as a UFA.

        These players are the exception to the rule. Neither I nor Caper & I shouldn’t speak for him are saying these picks don’t have value just that the chances they amount to anything are slim, some luck helps.

      • Can’t argue much striker but as a pens fan I am partial to third rounder picks. And top 2 overall picks to be honest. Picks have value in the cap age though. Among the top assets in the league: top notch number 1 centers, top pairing d, reasonably priced good goaltending, and not to be under appreciated, top 9 f and 3-5 d on elc’s.

    • STRIKER—I’ve been reading daily for 6 years here consistently—you are the best commenter I’ve seen here—thanks for the good insights

      • Jeff.

        I come here to chat hockey as the people that post here & there are a ton of solid posters that have a great handle on the game & solid deductive reasoning skills & knowledge.

        I value the opinions & insight of almost everyone here, even those I but heads with often. They make solid points & their perspective has helped me form my own. No better chat board for hockey on the net. #1 bare none & although some bullying & personal barbs happen occasionally nothing like what you see else where. Lyle keeps a clamp on them for the most part.

        I have followed Lyle for years, well over a decade now I have lost track, old age is setting in. I love what he does here & you guys smart enough to follow him & discuss & debate this stuff here.

        Thank you.


      • I agree with you Jeff. Striker has great points (quite a few I disagree with as well) but I do gain a lot of insight.
        He does go on weird tangents sometime though which depending on my own personal mood can be entertaining or highly frustrating 🙂
        Still much respect for him

      • I irritate most people I come into contact with, including myself. As my friends tell me I’m an acquired taste. Ha-ha!

        I love the NHL just wish they would fix the things that piss me off & don’t really make sense to me. Enforce the rules as written, make all games worth the same # of points. What’s wrong with ties? How about we have salaries hit the cap at the salaries actually paid in that year incurred & does it really matter if the skate is on the ice or behind the line? We lift our feet off the ice to skate & if it takes 10 mins to review such in a game that could use more goal scoring we want to waive off goals that are so close we can’t even really tell. Almost every rule enforced in the NHL is grey, subjective & these need to be black & white! Why have officials on the ice? Better yet lets have spotters that can communicate to the on ice officials so all calls are made correctly not just some.

        Even goalie interference makes no sense to me & I’m getting tired of being clueless as to what is or isn’t. No continuity. Brett Hull scored the game winner in the deciding game well breaking a rule that was enforced all year. These situations are a joke to all involved in the NHL.

        Sorry a little rant there.

    • exactly, I fully expect the Isles to protect 5 defenders barring a trade and give Hosang, Beauvillier, and Barzal a shot. only one forward can be lost, likely Nelson or Strome, They’d move Hamonic, for a Duchene or Drouin,but not for a floater like eberle

  4. i dont understand how Kane would be looking for a significant raise.
    The NHL is a business and committing salary long term to Kane would be crazy.
    All the talent in the world but its a high risk investment, one that I’m not sure you can make in the cap era.

    Sure, 15 years ago a team like Toronto or NYR would have paid him and then buried him in the minors if needed. Can’t get away with that now

    Kane should be looking at 5-5.5M on a 2/3 year deal. or 4.5 on a 5 year deal. At least thats what I think he should be paid

    • I could even live with 5 at 5 but any more in this cap world is an over payment. Unless he can shake his injury issues, unlikely as he plays a very carefree, reckless style, many of his injures he causes to himself flying or sliding into the boards at very high speed. If he could play in or around 75 a year, I would gladly pay more but he can’t. It’s to bad the NHL & NHLPA removed games played bonuses for players not 35 or older as if you could factor in a games played bonus for Kane easier to address his contract demands.

  5. Let’s get this player movement party started. Just need these pesky cup final games completed to really get the ball rolling. Ha-ha!

    • Striker,

      I always look forward to your contributions here! However, I have to disagree with your explanation of the Cup Final as pesky. I think it is very entertaining. Along with the personal coming of age stories like Guentzel, Smith and Gaudreau! Maybe you just enjoy the off season very much!

      • He was joking Steven… the Ha-HA! was a dead give away, Lighten up.

      • Steven I agree, it was really tongue in cheek. The games have been great right thru the playoffs. I’m just far more interested in what’s to come this particular summer than what’s going on in the Cup finals.

        I would love to see Nashville win the cup. It may shut up those that complain about expansion & teams like Nashville. That said I’ll be happy for Crosby & others in Pittsburgh if Pittsburgh wins back to back cups & it’s 3rd in the last 9 years. That would define Pittsburgh as 1 of 2 dynasty teams of the last decade, solidifying Crosby as 1 of the greatest players of all time, top 3 maybe even top 2!

    • Pesky! well…

      You have bad breath! 😉

      • Nice.

        I love how that comment got taken seriously by the media.

        I assumed it was a way of Subban being Subban and basically not answering a question about what was said on the ice without giving the canned response. But the fact that reporters seriously cornered Sid and actually went to him with it as a serious quote is kind of hilarious.

        TSN and Sportsnet even had headlines like “Crosby denies bad breath jab at Subban” as if this was some controversy rather than a funny response to a standard interview question.

  6. I really don’t understand peoples opinion on Eberle. Yeah his numbers were down this past season, and the season before he had injury issues. other than those 2 season he is a solid 60 to 70 point player. There is zero indication that next season he could not return to those numbers after an offseason of heard work. I truly believe he will have a bounce back season in 2017/18. Now I do also understand that Eberle by himself will not get any of the mentioned d-men in a trade. I just don’t think his trade value is as low as what people may think. Also $6 mil is about market value for a 60 to 70 points per season player. IMO.

    • On second thought, I think the Eberle could fetch Hamonic 1 for 1. Especially if the Oilers retain some salary. Eberle is a top 6 forward and Hamonic is a second pairing d-man with injury issues. Again, just my opinion.

    • I agree with much of what your saying. To bounce back he needs the quantity & quality of minutes to be a 65 to 70 point player. Those aren’t coming in Edm. He is now a 2nd line, 2nd unit PP option there, not a 1st & 1st but he is never returning to 70 points nor is 65 easily reached.

      Since the last lock out; 2012-13, 4 seasons, less than 20 players have achieved 70+ points! What few points are being generated are being generated over a far greater # of players as almost all teams play 4 lines now & most try to ice some form of 3 scoring lines. The game is faster & players need more rest to keep up forcing a change in players abilities to generate points.

      Far more teams are now icing 2 preset PP units as opposed to just loading up 1. This reduction in quantity & quality of minutes available to top 6 forwards is a very interesting new dynamic in the NHL & continuing to evolve as the quality of players has been raising due to expansion & the growth of hockey world wide but especially in the US.

      If Eberle can get 1st line icetime & power playtime 25 to 30 goals & 55 to 60 points is easily achievable & 65 in reach, 70? I don’t think so but that should make him still quite valuable in trade. If Edm is moving Eberle they are getting fair market value & not discounting him, at least not very much. His 6 mil cap hit isn’t ideal in this cap world but with only 2 years remaining to onerous for what he brings to the table. Goal scorers don’t grow on tree’s they just don’t return solid top 3 Dman, even getting a solid #4 unless on the downside of his career may be out of reach for such an assets.

    • I have disagreed with this for most of last year and I’ll stay the course.
      He got considerable first PP and first line time this year, he just produce. If not for his hattrick in the last (meaningless) game of the season he doesn’t hit 20 goals.
      My reasoning is not production related at all, its what he does on the ice. In almost all the games I saw Edmonton play Eberle was ineffective and other than the PP completely invisible on the ice. Battle along the boards? Watch for Eberle to be on the other side of the pile. PP situation, float around, get to the point and have an ineffective one timer or wrist shot. Turnovers, getting pushed off the puck like a rag doll. This wasn’t the player of two years ago.
      Not saying he doesn’t have the ability but something’s up with his synergy in Edmonton

  7. Striker… You would have Crosby number 2 or 3. It’s a bold strategy Cotton! I’m guessing Gretzky is #1. Just curious as to where Toews, Yzerman, Lemieux and Howe etc would rank in the All Time Greatest Players debate.

    Obviously this argument is subjective to opinion meaning there really is no right answer.

    • Very tough & no right answer. I also struggle with generations. Howe & Orr played in a different generation, a significantly different game, as did Gretzky, Yzerman & Lemieux, they played in the high scoring NHL, what I like to call the glory years or a hockey pool freaks glory years anyway. Hell Mike Rodgers scored over a 100 points in 1 season in that era.

      For me currently, it’s Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Toews, Bossy; greatest goal scorer of all time; still holds the highest goals per game average, a shame his career was cut so short, Lidstrom, Yzerman, Crosby, Bourque; bias my favorite player of all time & I am a Bruin fan after all. There are numerous others right there as well just as deserving.

      If Crosby wins the cup this season or again before his career ends he leaps to at least 3rd on this list & I think I would give the edge to him over Lemieux by the time his career ends; he could play at this level for 6 to 8 more years! as long as he wins at least 1 more cup.

      Add in a few beers & this list could change significantly, it’s constantly changing for me as I sometimes change my mind or read something that alters it.

      • For me currently, it’s Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, (Toews), Bossy; greatest goal scorer of all time; still holds the highest goals per game average, a shame his career was cut so short, Lidstrom, Yzerman, Crosby, Bourque

        this is like a game of which one of these does not belong.

      • just curious as to why no Messier or Sakic …I know you probably love his leadership qualities …but if you are including players with the package that were cut short by injuries I would have P Forsberg ahead of Toews as well

      • For me it’s Gretzky at one, then I have really no order between Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Bossy, and Crosby. I know it’s a copout, but it’s just to hard in picking anyone of them above the other, IMO.

      • It’s hard to evaluate players from different eras against each other.

        I look at it as Orr, Gretzky, and now Crosby were the best players of their respective generations, but comparing them is so hard.

        If you look at in terms of pure points, records and dominance then it’s Gretzky by a landslide and no one will ever touch that. If you try and analyze skill, athleticism, or look at it in the Vacuum of what would happen if you magically took 18 year old Sid and started him playing right along side 18 year old Gretzky, Crosby would dominate and have records that Gretzky could never touch.

        Neither of those is a fair way to look at it. Gretzky played in an era where there was a massive gap in talent between the stars and the average player, and goaltending was overall very weak. Crsoby has had the benefit of all the advancements in strategy and training that virtually didn’t exist in the same manor back in the 80’s.

        I try and look at it in terms of generations, and impact on the game.

        Orr dominated the game from the back end like no one ever will again, Gretzky changed the way teams approached offense in too many ways to count, Crosby is almost the product of taking everything that came before him and designing a virtually perfect hockey player. He has no holes in his skill set, and excels at every facet of the game. He somehow walks a line between high level creativity, but didn’t let that stop him from excelling at every boring technical aspect of the game.

        I like classing those three together as they all had massive impacts on the growth of the game during their time in the league.

        For me it will always be impossible to argue against Gretzky as the greatest, but I don’t think its really possible to rank guys from these different Eras against each other.

        There are others that I would put just below that list. Lemieux, Lidstrom, Hasek, Howe, Bossy, Ovechkin, Bourque, as well as a bunch of others as generational talents that did amazing things or dominated some facet of the game, I put them just under the big 3 simply because it’s hard to make the argument any of them had the same impact or had more decorated careers.

        It’s always a fun conversation, mostly because it’s fun to hear the explanations of why someone rates one over another. Because you can’t compare directly, most rationales have validity.

        Who stood out most when watching them play? – Orr
        Who dominated and changed the game the most? – Gretzky
        Who separated themselves from the pack when it was the most difficult to do so? – Crosby

        I couldn’t effectively argue against any of those statements, and if one of those reasons is why you think one of those players is the greatest, then it’s a fair choice.

      • Roger.

        It really comes down to personal bias. I have never liked Messier, certainly admire his abilities, Sakic is 1 of my favorites of all time, Forsberg, Jagr, Coffee, Esposito, Recchi, Selanne, Oates, Neidermayer, Lafleur, etc. I could go on & on. By cup wins how do you discount the Richard’s & Belivieu’s of the world.

        It’s a combination of everything with an incredible amount of personal bias.

    • Mario number one… then gretzky number two… duh.

      • It just isn’t hard to evaluate and compare players from different eras – it’s bloody impossible. But in all the discussions so far I have yet to see anyone mention a member of the Montreal Canadiens – who have won, by far, the most Cups with 23 – next best is 10 back (Toronto at 13). One Hab, Henri Richard, has 11 cups. Think anyone will come close to that (nor were they all from the original 6 era). Then there’s his brother – some guy named Maurice – and of course Beliveau, Lafleur, Geoffrion etc. etc. Just thought I’d toss that into the discussion – and I’m no Habs Fan!

    • Not sure why people bother with this list of all time greats. Crosby and Gretzky played in totally different eras. And seeing Malkin fall short of the most recent 100 list says it all! In fact, there are too many players to even create a list that small. By the time you divide it into each position somebody is bound to be left out! How about a top 100 list for each position! Maybe 50 for goalies. Or better yet, why bother? Ha!Ha! (Can’t forget to lighten up:))

      • I’m still shocked and partially and partially mad that Malkin isn’t on that list. To produce points so consistently, playing second fiddle to Crosby in the era of massive goalies is nothing short of extraordinary. He should have been there, don’t care who they had to drop from that list

      • Agree with Taz. Malkin should be on that list. What did they say his points average was when Crosby is not in the line up…1.3 points per game. no active player in the league produces like that but Crosby.

      • Absolutely Taz. Not an easy list to compile & I would prefer we don’t just try to pigeon hole them but group them by era as the greats of their time.

        Gretzky is the best for me. Had Mario not been injured for significant portions of his career & not cut short maybe he would be my #1. Having the opportunity to watch both their entire careers was a pleasure. As has it been for most on this list.

        Being 54 I saw many of the greats but not all. I didn’t really become a serious hockey fan util 1980, the year I started my 1st draft pool. A casual fan prior.

    • Toews, I been hearing this debate for a few years now. (not referring to you bcola or your question.) That Toews is better then Crosby and who would you rather on your team. I’ve listen to media type proclaim Toews better then Crosby and point out Toews has 3 cups and Crosby 1 (Crosby has 2 now). With that point of view your saying Jhonny Oduya is better then Erik Karlsson. (get real…right).
      I’ve always said if you want to compare Toews his comparable is Patrice Bergeron (and before you snicker and laugh) compare their stats and list of awards they are very comparable and they both play the same style of game and Bergeron has one more Selke but two less cups, if that’s what you want to debate this on.
      Bergeron is a terrific hockey player and like Toews will be in the HHF but, he like Toews are not in the same level as Gretzky, Lemieux or Crosby.

      • That is my opinion exactly. I like Toews and all, but IMO he is overrated. Toews maybe the better leader, but Crosby is an above average leader as well and I will always take skill and goal scoring above leadership any day. You can always find good leaders, but gifted skilled players and goal scores are a lot harder to find.

      • This is a no brainer. Crosby is on a different planet.

      • Exactly …how many cups would Crosby have if he had Keith AND Seabrook as his 1-2 Dmen as opposed to Letang for 1 year and an injured KL for the 2nd and possibly not at all for this year the 3rd

      • I agree fully, it’s what’s your criteria. Toews is an amazing player, leader & winner but Crosby has those & a world class offensive player. Toews is nominally above average offensively but his contributions very timely & important. Hard to properly compare these 2 players as we are talking apples & oranges. Their not the exact same players except both being #1 C’s but elite for different reasons & points offense will always out weigh defense for forwards. Really even at D with a few rare exceptions.

  8. Chicago needs cap space and a scoring winger for Toews.
    Buffalo needs a top 2 D-man.

    to CHI: Kane and 4th rd pick
    to BUF: Seabrook and 2nd rd pick

    • Don’t see Seabrook waving his NMC to go to Buffalo.

      • Also can you imagine both Kane’s get into a cab together and go out for a night on the town?

      • Love that one Taz. Very funny. Can just imagine the sex crime headlines

  9. Kane or Eberle are going to get you one of those Dmen if a team is looking at losing them in the expansion draft. Right now GMs are playing chicken with each other. Wait until the 24hrs before the lists have to be in to see some action.

    There are also some good UFA Dmen available. Stone, Kulikov, Russell, Smith, and Davidson come to mind. Because I am a Leaf fan I weigh these against the trade market. Right now they need a partner for Reilly. I like Manson, Dumba, Pullock, Montdour, or Gudbranson from the trade market and failing one of them Stone, Smith or Kulikov. Then they need to draft Foote or Hague? There is also a couple of UFAs from junior or Europe. It will be interesting. If I could pick out of the guys mentioned above I like Manson or Dumba.

  10. It has been a year. How long do “previous off-ice escapades” stay on a guy’s record?

    • When you’re talking a player worth millions annually to your salary cap, they stay for a while until that player proves he’s put those issues behind him.

      • So, about 5 years? Patrick Kane had his incident with the cab driver in 2009 and got his huge contract with Chicago in 2014.

      • Don’t think that;s the only incident Patrik Kane was involved in

  11. Tanev for Kane straight up? Maybe Benning would do it. Has Kane matured off the ice is the bigger question