NHL Rumor Mill – November 30, 2018

by | Nov 30, 2018 | Rumors | 74 comments

Latest on William Nylander, Mitch Marner, Scott Darling, and more in your NHL rumor mill.

NYLANDER AND MARNER

TSN: With the 5 pm ET deadline on Dec. 1 for signing restricted free agent William Nylander fast approaching, Pierre LeBrun reports the Toronto Maple Leafs have sent feelers to teams with interest in the young winger to determine how serious they are in acquiring him. This doesn’t mean a trade is coming, as the Leafs still hope to re-sign Nylander. LeBrun believes this is the Leafs “Plan B”. He also suggests this impasse could carry on toward the Feb. 25 trade deadline or the offseason.

The Toronto Maple Leafs are circling back to teams with interest in winger William Nylander. (Photo via NHL Images)

Bob McKenzie said the trade market for Nylander’s been shrinking because of the high cap hit for this season if he signs before the deadline.  “So if Nylander gets a contract in the high-sixes from the Leafs with an AAV (average annual value) of $6.8 or $6.9 million. The first-year cap hit is going to be up around $9.5 million. The Leafs love that because a high cap hit doesn’t hurt them and then you get lower cap hits in the remaining years.  For teams like the Los Angeles Kings, Anaheim Ducks and Minnesota Wild that have interest in Nylander, they can’t afford a $9.5 million cap hit this year.”

SPECTOR’S NOTE: The Leafs want to cover all the bases here. They don’t want to find out after the fact that a team was willing to pitch an irresistible offer for Nylander if they’d only asked. Contract negotiations are expected to go down to the wire.

Teams with available cap space, like the Carolina Hurricanes, could remain interested in Nylander and they’re said to be monitoring this situation. Whether they’ll make a significant pitch for him remains to be seen. 

Speaking of the Leafs, LeBrun reports Mitch Marner’s representatives are considering the merits of pursuing a four- or five-year contract instead of seeking the league maximum. He speculates it could cost between $9-$10 million per season to re-sign Marner, based on the season he’s having. A four-year deal would bring Marner up to his eligibility for unrestricted free agency.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: The Leafs and Marner won’t open contract talks until season’s end. Management probably prefers locking up Marner for seven or eight years. If he keeps producing at his current rate over a four-year deal, it could cost considerably more to keep him off the UFA market.

DARLING AND THE HURRICANES

THE HOCKEY NEWS: Jared Clinton noted the Carolina Hurricanes placing goaltender Scott Darling on waivers yesterday. If he clears at noon ET today, he could be demoted to their AHL affiliate as his $4.15-million annual average value makes it unlikely he’ll be claimed by another club.

However, Clinton wonders if a rival club might flip “a low-level asset or two” for Darling, provided the Hurricanes agree to pick up part of his cap hit. He points out the Philadelphia Flyers, Florida Panthers, and St. Louis Blues are desperate for help between the pipes.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Anything’s possible, but I’ll be surprised if any of those clubs take a chance on Darling. He’s been a significant disappointment during his tenure as the Hurricanes’ starting goaltender. 

THE ATHLETIC: Sara Civian recently listed defenseman Brett Pesce as the Hurricanes’ most likely player to move if they make a pitch for Toronto’s William Nylander. “It just makes the most sense when you think about it — a 24-year-old, solid defenseman on a six-year, $4.025 million deal. The Canes are one of the only teams in the NHL with the luxury to give something like that up to a team that’s desperate for some top-six defense.” Other possible trade candidates include defenseman Haydn Fleury and forward Valentin Zykov.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Pesce could also be a trade chip if the Hurricanes pass on Nylander and look elsewhere for scoring help. Fleury is currently on IR but when healthy could be packaged in a larger deal. Zykov made be tradeable but his struggles to stick in the NHL full time hurt his trade value. 

LATEST ON THE PENGUINS

NICHOLS ON HOCKEY: cites Darren Dreger’s appearance yesterday on Montreal’s TSN 690 discussing the state of the Pittsburgh Penguins’ goaltending. With Matt Murray struggling when healthy this season and the inexperience of Casey DeSmith and Tristan Jarry, Dreger noted there have been quiet mutterings suggesting the Penguins could make Murray a trade commodity down the road when he’s healthy.

Dreger also pointed out how much the Pens are missing sidelined defenseman Justin Schultz. “I wouldn’t be surprised to see Rutherford and the Penguins try and acquire some form of puck-moving defenseman in the future, but it’s difficult to do.”

PITTSBURGH POST-GAZETTE: Jason Mackey reports it’s extremely unlikely the Penguins will seek outside help to address their goalie issues. While they’re by no means happy with the current state of their goaltending, “there’s little they can do when you look at acquiring cost, the team’s salary-cap situation and the quality of netminders available.”

SPECTOR’S NOTE: In other words, they’re not making a pitch for Scott Darling. 

 







74 Comments

  1. Just spitballing here…Jason Botterill has knowledge of prospects in Pittsburgh’s system so mattering how he feels about Sprong or someone else in the Pitt system and his smooth skating defenseman Brendan Guhle who is playing in Buffalo’s Rochester AHL team, could there be a connection? I think Lawrence Pilut makes Guhle expendable. Pilut should be in Buffalo’s starting line-up either later this year or next year for sure.

  2. WW for Jake? Flyers retain 2mil/year?
    WW for Ghost? Keeping Sanheim…

    • Why would the Leafs trade Nylander for a soon to be 30 year old? He’s a nice winger but hardly a difference maker … Leafs need a young stud d-man back in return, not an aging winger. Think Seth Jones/Johansen … so yes, Flyers would have give up Ghostibere or Sanheim … sorry.

      • The LEAFS SHOULD NOT AND WILL NOT trade

        Nylander to a divisional rival …obviously things happen but I think Dubas is way smarter than this …this is not a lower level deal here …Nylander can come back to haunt the Leafs …he SHOULD NOT trade with the Canes or the Flyers … IMO !!

        Penguins Matt Murray

        I don’t see an equal trade here …especially with money coming back if you look at comparable upgrades ..that’s why they got rid of Fleury ..FUTURE CAP issues.

        I dont see how the Penguins can upgrade in net trading Murray …the ONLY goalie I would take a chance on IF AVAILABLE is Jonatahan QUICK!….and thats a big…If… he is available @

        5,800,000
        5,800,000
        5,800,000
        5,800,000
        5,800,000
        UFA ……2023 / 2024

        Biggest mistake Rutherford made was keeping Kessel over Fleury…I will go on the record saying that I was never happy they let Fleury go….he was a corner stone player!

        Iam not saying this 50 / 50 hinesite either ..have always been a HUGE Fleury fan as the Pens are my defacto team.

      • I was thinking the same thing about the Pens and Fluery. At that time Murray already had missed some significant time due to injuries. IMO they should have traded Murray and protected Fluery. I always liked Fluery and his team first attitude. Always giving credit to his teammates and taking non for himself. Been a fan of him ever since the WJHC.

      • Kal, neither Philly or Carolina are in Toronto’s division. Even if they were, the Leafs should get the best return regardless of who pays it

      • Kal El

        I advocated many times that trading Phil in July would have brought the Pens the greatest return as he was at his peak.

        He still has value but not as great as what it would have been in July.

        He also has a contract that must be protected (at the expense of a younger player) in the expansion draft; so that lowers his return as well.

        I was a fence sitter on my feelings w.r.t. keeping the Flower at the time as that meant protecting him and exposing Murray (who at the time I thought was going to be solid and the future of the team).

        If they could have traded PK for assets, brought in a goalie for exposure; and kept both MM and the Flower— yep.

        all hindsight now.

        The bone-head acquisition of JJ and the absolute atrocity of how they are player/not playing Sprong; and poor play and injury status of of MM; plus the costly injury to Shultz; are collectively having quite an impact on the Pens right now.

        Like the Pearson/Hags trade.

        Healthy and re-invigorated MM; Shultz back; sit JJ; play Sprong more and with better line-mates…. Pens should be fine late in year.

        next 8 weeks are going to be tight.

      • So, Kal el, IF the best offer by far comes from the Hurricanes or Flyers, Dubas should avoid this and take a lesser offer from a western division team just in case Nylanders ‘comes back to haunt him????” That would place him among the idiots of GMs. They play division/conference “rivals” what – 4 times a year? And western division teams 2 times a year? Big deal. A GM MUST – if he’s going to trade someone – take the BEST offer on the table.

      • Taz,

        Re: trading within div and getting best trade possible regardless of div….

        I’m with you almost in entirety.

        Yes– get the best offer you possibly can…. with a codicil.

        That being— you need to be absolutely certain you win any trade within your division if it is to a team that is competing with you for Div lead… trading with TBay or Bos not impossible but should be only dealing with them if they (Leafs) are certain they have won the trade in the here and now and in the future.

        Could a trade with TBay and Bos happen— yes. The likelihood of it happening, IMO, is very slim.

        I’m all for a trade with FLA, Mon or Ottw if there is a workable one available.

        I’m prob OK with a Buff trade.

        I would avoid if at all possible a trade with TBay and/or Bos

        That’s just me. Others would do so

      • Right on Georgie.
        If the sens make the best pitch or the Habs – the leafs should take that, I don’t care about seeing willy X times a year

        I was of the opinion that if the Leafs had the best offer on the table for Karlsson, then that’s where he should have gone.

        Fans have short memories, I live in Ottawa, as you know and so many of my friends who were so frustrated in the months before the season are genuinely excited.

      • Yeah they should have traded a guy who got 92 points last year and held onto a mercurial, aging goalie that cost the team more games than he ever won for them. Do you not remember 2010-2017 and MAFs multiple playoff meltdowns? He should have been gone long before he actually was. This is such a ridiculous comment. Yeah Fleury would be saving the day right now if they kept him. Maybe if you were actually a fan of the team and they weren’t just your “de facto” team(aka they were the team you followed in the playoffs because the leafs didn’t make the playoffs for a decade.)

      • @ Goerge ” O ”

        First off ..No trade is a HOME RUN …the old saying is who gets the best player in the deal wins the trade !

        Just because a player translates well on one team DOES NOT mean he translate well on another team !

        I DO NOT see any good deal that would rival a deal that can be had out West….and this is my firm Belief …

        Iam sorry ….I dont see the likes of a Pesce.. Slavin….Sanhiem or any Philly D player being a difference maker on the Leafs for what the position of need is for the leafs at its pinnacle!

        Are they good players …sure they are. Due to this hole Nylander fiasco ..LMAO ..I went out and got the Hockey package on TV to watch as many games as I could because I really wanted to see what other teams were playing like and watch more intently.

        In saying that and watching where the leafs are really struggling on a nightly basis against the younger more physical teams like the Blue Jackets The Bruins and Stars and Caps in the future for conversations sake….the Leafs STRUGGLE !!

        And YES …I will stick by my comment and belief in what I see and feel …I WOULD NOT TRADE with the Canes and Philly inter Conference as not to help them be a road block for me down the road with more talent just so I can get 1 average quality D top plug 1 hole !

        I think Nylander on the Canes is a HUGE mistake the way they have been playing and they look really good …why ma I going to do them the favor of making them better just to take a chance …because I know what Nylander wil bring them …what is Pesce or Slavin going to bring me ….is a more debatable outcome !

        thats just my opinion ..I TOTALLY understand your opinion …I just would not do it !

        I personally feel it would be a mistake with all the options available !

      • Kal, let me explain this again.
        Say they sign Willy but for that reason lose Marner, Kapanen, Johnsson and *gasp* Matthews as cap casualties? They simply cannot keep everyone.
        What happens to Gardiner and Hainsey? Who’s replacing them?

        Yes, Nylander for Parayko, Manson/montour, dumba would be great but those deals arent available.

        Would you rather have Pesce plus Marner and one of kapanen/Johnsson or an overpaid Gardiner plus Nylander?

        Get the best deal for this year and next year. If that is Pesce plus some additions that great. Or sign Willy, trade him at the draft.

        I agree that they should exercise caution with Boston & Tampa and to some extent Buffalo

      • Hahahaha, Nylander would never, EVER land a Seth Jones type player. Dream on!

      • Kal-el – I did NOT purposely name any player who might come to Toronto in a trade for Nylander. What I’m saying is, if a GM sees no option but to trade a certain player, who he deals with should NEVER be a reason not to trade – he MUST take the best offer if that’s seen as most beneficial to his team regardless of who he’s dealing with. Any other decision makes him a bad GM who will ultimately fail.

    • My guess is Ghost for WW is more attractive to Tor

      They are rumored to be looking for D, Ghost is young and under contract (unlike WW).

      And the Ghost contract is affordable which will help them resign Marner and Matthews

      • Deedee is turning into another bigbear…..ahahah

      • @ DEEE

        Why are you so angry dude !!

        Iam a HOCKEY fan first a foremost !!!

        What difference does it make what teams I like to see do well to make a difference on what I think about quality or reality !!

        JUST TO LET YOU KNOW …..

        IF IT WERE NOT FOR FLEURY IN THE LAST 2 SEASONS PITT WOULD NEVER HAVE WON THE CUP …HE SHUT OUT WASHINGTON IN GAME 7 AND WON THAT SERIES ALL BY HIMSELF …AND MURTRAY PLAYS 2 SERIES AND WINS BIG DEAL …THE YEAR BEFORE THAT FLEURY WAS UNREAL ALL SEASON LONG AND IF IT WEER NOT FOR NIM ….THEY WOULD NOT EVEN HAD MADE THE PLAYOFFS …HE WAS SENSATIONAL IN A CAREER YEAR ….

        GO BACK AND WATCH TEH LAST TWO SEASONS PITT WON THE CUP …IT WAS ALL FLEURY ALL YEAR LONG …NOT MATT MURRAY FOR 2 PLAYOFF SERIES ….GIVE ME A FRICKEN BREAK.

      • @ Pengy …Taz …and George O

        Iam sorry …it all sounds good on here to talk about the so called…. VALUE ….

        This deal is NOT about just the VALUE …

        Its ALL about the NEED …

        The need to fill a gapping hole that they are wayyyy to soft on the D side of the puck ….plain and simple …

        I can not stress this enough other than to say …just look at what Washington did to the offensive juggernot in Vegas last year ….they wiped the ice with them because Vegas back end got there asses handed to them …Iam sorry but Matthews Marner Nylander an aging Marleau and a Tavares are not going to go out there and grind a tream down in a playoff series ….that responsibility is SOLELY based on the back end and 1 power forward in teh top 6 …
        aka a player like Tom Wilson or Brad Marchand !

        If you do not have an answer for these guys every other shift and on a short bench come playoff time in a long series …GOOD FRICKEN LUCK …I dont see Slavin or Pesce as those guys …but as I say thats just me.

        As stated the leafs have all ready shown this fault against bigger faster teams !!

      • Easy kal el. Deee is very much in the minority of real pens fans. The city of Pittsburgh, according to local media, fans, etc, all agree with what you just said.

      • Hi Kal El

        I’m with you w.r.t. what they do need. You are bang on.

        That said, if the only returns offered are D upgrades with puck movers who are in their mid 20’s and under good contracts; and I’m comparing that to keeping WW and his Cap hit[ that affects future contracts and who Leafs can sign]— yes lesser of two evils; I’m taking the upgrade in D (with a mid 20’s puck mover and reasonable contract).

        I’d love for a more solid D to come in the trade but there are fewer of that ilk around in a viable trade.

        I love Muzzin and would be a huge upgrade this year and next.

        I’m just looking/hoping for D upgrade that is in his prime years from about June of ’20 to June of ’26 where I feel that Leafs do have a shot at a couple of cups.

        Muzzin a fantastic add now but would be in UFA in June of ’20 and 31 then, and could be costly to re-sign for out-years; especially if Leafs win a cup in ’20.

        Manson would be 28 in June of ’20 and still have 2 more years under contract at $4.1M cap hit— so I would like to have him over Muzzin in a trade (again I go back to my penultimate — Parayko — but that will not happen …. 🙁 ).

        For a trade to get Manson, with An right now butt up against the cap— would mean some fancy schmancy wheeling and dealing and/or multi-team trading.

        A Leafs/An straight up deal would need Leafs taking on a heavy contract (Perry-like) and that is very very unlikely to happen.

        Fingers crossed that GMKD throws out (pushes aside) the pressure from fans and media and makes a decision that is solely about Leafs’ future.

        He will not make everybody happy no matter what he does. He’s going to get flack signing or not signing (sitting) ; trading or not trading; long term or short term. Leafs fans almost as divided as the state of FLA (well not really- LOL).

        Fingers crossed 🙂

      • Kal, what are you talking about here? Who did Pittsburgh out muscle in their last two championships?
        When it comes to Washington, they were the bigger and nastier team but that was due to their forwards. Orpik, Orlov, Niskanen and Carlson weren’t exactly laying people out.

        I can’t believe you are differentiating Value and Need. Your needs create the biggest value. You are also saying that they shouldn’t trade within the division/conference and then saying that they need to fill needs?

        Since when is Brad Marchand a power forward?

      • I’m not angry and I don’t care as much as you should. You are a leafs fan that cheered for the Pens when the leafs didn’t make the playoffs for a decade. I get why you did it, they are more when you have some investment in the team. Saying they don’t win either cup without MAF is fine but you can apply the same logic to Murray. Fleury played one game in the 16 playoffs and he played pretty bad. Murray won every other one as a rookie. Murray came in for the stretch run that year as well when MAF went down to a concussion and Murray was a force of nature for that run. The next year the roles reversed and MAF started the playoffs and played well for 2 series but Murray was phenomenal against Nashville and strong most of the time against Ottawa. When the expansion draft happened the keep Fleury crowd was a tiny minority. MAF was older, paid more, and at the time had the least upside. Saying Kessel should have been traded to keep MAF is absolutely ridiculous. There is no way they could have gone another season with both Murray and Fleury splitting time and if they traded Murray after b2b cups and he went on to become a superstar with another team they would have been crucified. My point here is that you keep making statements and qualifying them with this “de facto” title justification. I have been an actual fan of this team since their second best player was Rob Brown. I have a long memory and I remember MAF against the Islanders in round 1 when Vokoun had to take over because MAF was a disaster. The next year against Columbus where you actually saw him break on a very bad OT goal. The next year against the Rags when the Pens were up 3-1 in the series and then crumbled after Martin StLouis mother past away. MAF was great in 2008 but they won the cup despite him in 2009. Murray is still really young and has had a lot of adversity that followed a lot of extreme success. I’m 6’3 and a half and I am super injury prone, partly because the world is built for people that are 5’8”. I’m just not ready to close the door on Murray yet. Like I said yesterday, let him take as long as he needs to get healthy as long as he’s there for the playoffs because he’s a high pressure player that thrives when it matters the most.

    • Without hindsight maf move to Vegas was absolutely the right call. I don’t know how that ties to kessel at all though. But the pens had to chose between a future hall of famer and a young up n comer. Age money coaches comfort level all leaned towards Murray. Hindsight it may end up being the wrong call. Last season and this season maf has dramatically outplayed Murray. Could have pens got past Washington last year with maf? Maybe. In his career maf never had stretches of mediocrity (being generous with term for Murray’s sake) that Murray has had past year and a half. As a life long fan of the team and not just certain players on the team I appreciate your opinion of the situation. I won’t give up on Murray and advocate trading him. But it’s impossible to say the team is better off with him now than maf. That’s just objective fact.

  3. Just spit balling here…Jason Botterill has knowledge of Pittsburgh’s prospect pool so mattering if there is a player he likes there and his feelings on his own prospect, smooth skating LD Brendan Guhle could there be a connection for a trade? With the development of Lawrence Pilut who should be in Buffalo’s starting line-up either later this year or at the start of next year which to me makes Guhle expendable. The Sabres need a young forward that has a scoring touch.

    • Young, smooth skating defensemen are coveted like no others in todays nhl, why would Botterill trade one??? Pens need to win now, no interest in the future.

      • Len and Ed

        JJ for Guhle…. can we shake on it?

        Joking aside; Pens could use a tweak at D but I do not want them to give up on Sprong.

        There has to be more to the whole story.

        Outside of the Winn game where he played very well; ZAR is not the player that Sprong is.

        Sprong should have been on 3rd line with a couple of shifts a game experiment with Crosby.

        Sprong in the press box is doing neither the Pens or Sprong any good.

        JJ as played a bit better but he is still the 6th best D that they have been putting out there and is being given minutes much greater than that.

        Riikola (can’t blame him for the weird bounced shot off him for game winner in Col) has been playing very well.

        Shultz return can’t come soon enough.

        Would love to see:

        Letang/Dumo
        Shultz/Big Rig
        The Finnish connection
        sit JJ

        Any tweak now in the very short term; by GMJR just might be for another winger flip to tweak /instil some scoring in both traded wingers (see his move re: Pearson).

      • Pengy, you and your JJ posts remind me of that guy that kept bringing up Brendan Smith, but just a lot, lot worse

      • Taz,

        absolutely correct… that is because JJ is a much much worse contractual headache than Smiths.

        I’m just a bitter old man. 🙂

    • @ DEEEEE

      SO… reading between your lines and your mocking me of my defacto comment …it would seem that you ONLY watch hockey when your favorite team plays ….and NEVER watch a full game of quality hockey when its on without your favorite team…..so your actually a Football fan that watches hockey once a week…NICE!!!

  4. Slavin not Pesce ; Necas and an exchange of firsts would be my ask for Nylander. Otherwise no thanks.
    A lot of teams can’t afford this year’s cap hit but some salary would need to come back and a lesser side deal should boil it down to 4-5m additional hit
    Second intermission on Hockey Night should be interesting this Saturday.

    • NO THANK YOU on any trade with the Canes…

      Its Jake Muzzin or Josh Manson in any deal or BUST… IMO ..

      Its just staring you in the face that the Leafs need a BIG D man to wear an opponent down in the playoffs for the next 3 to 5 years.

      Its the Only piece they are really missing!

      A healthy Boston and Tampa team will grind the Leafs D core into submission in a playoff series and have there way with this D core ..if the Leafs do not get bigger and more serious on the back end …they will not out score every opponent 6 – 5 every game ..

      • Kal El

        Yes please — D upgrade

        WW ++ for Parayko– then we can have a parade— LOL — yes a man can dream

        Manson yes— but if push came to shove; I’d still go for a deal that included Montour instead of Manson

        See my earlier post w.r.t. take backs on WW and player coming in— do you know if this can work?

      • The issue with trading with Anaheim and LA is that those two teams don’t have the cap space to sign Nylander. Even after the trade and losing the 4+ million cap hit of each player. Both teams have less than a million in cap space so they will still need to find 3 to 4 million in cap space after the trade to even try and sign Nylander.
        The biggest obstacle in trading Nylander is Nylander’s asking price is way to high.

    • Silver Seven

      Fair offer; but I’d still like Pesce and I believe that GMKD would push for a Pesce over Slavin deal.

      Yes 2nd intermission will be a gong show.

      Friedman will be pouring sweat and speaking faster than he thinks; and of course Kypper will spout non-sensical garbage. Don Cherry will have clowns on his suit. Ron will reign them in.

    • Slavan, Necas and an exchange of 1sts for Nylander?! That’s ridiculously lopsided in Toronto’s favour. Even Waddell wouldn’t do that trade. I don’t think you’d get Slavin straight up given the contracts.

  5. Had some casual banter with one of my Director’s this morning regarding a sign then trade of WW (as TSN had suggested as an option).

    The issue arose w.r.t. available teams to fit WW in this year due to the higher cap hit (18/19)…. say a 6 year $7M is somewhere in the range of $9.5 M (18/19) followed by 5 years of around $6.5M

    His idea (asking here to anybody if there is a Cap circumvention issue) is to sign/trade WW and take back 50%; and as part of the mutli-players coming back from trade partner, get a player who has equal or greater term left and at least an AAV of $6.5M; and have that team take back 50% of that player.

    The out-year net in contracts is nil but the team accepting this year is getting WW for about $8M instead of $9.5M in 18/19( 50% of $9.5M [$4.75M} and 50% of current player at $6.5M or greater)

    Does anybody know if this CAN be done under CBA?

    This Director is a huge Doughty fan and was trying to come up with a “miracle” trade that had 50% of WW and Doughty retained and many other moving parts plus a first rounder going to LA…. but I just wanted to find out if anybody here knows whether this kind of trade is viable under CBA and whether the 50% take back of WW would mean $4.75M for each team THIS year and $3.25M for each team in out years.

    I still am hoping for sit— wait to see if there is a spectacular offer come TDL but more than likely deal when there are 25+ teams vying come off-season.

    D upgrade please

  6. I realize that signing WN to a contract now increases his cap hit for the year. Instead if the Leafs were to pay him a signing bonus and reduce salary for this year then the cap hit is significantly lower for this year.
    If a trade has to be made to Minny, Anaheim Etc, couldn’t the leafs simply pay that signing bonus and then trade him?
    I don’t see this year’s cap space being a stumbling block.

    • Hi Taz,

      The SB will decrease the Cash paid by the other team but I’m not sure if it affects the Cap hit.

      The weird formula skews RFA contracts signed after season opener to more Cap hit in first year.

      I thought they would still include the SB to determine first year total outlay and then apply the formula— does anybody know if that is the case.

      The quick math (using that weird formula) on a 6 * $7M (all years equal, no SB) signed now looks something close to $9.7M (18/19) and $6.6 for last 5 years

      If SB this year not included and say $5M and I plug in $2M Sal followed by 5 * $7M then it comes out $8.9M and $6.1M in out-years… but the total added Cap is less than total contract value and I don’t think this flies with the CBA– not sure but I don’t think it does— anybody here know?

      If valid— then your idea is great– heavy SB now; sign 6 year; trade— good to go

      Nice idea— fingers crossed

  7. As a Leaf fan I think Dubas should be sure he has a fair (maybe small edge to generous) on the table….don’t budge from it…no time to panic

    Ditto on a trade now..fair trade in his eyes or no trade…don’t budge from what you think is fair and serves your 5 year plan

    Don’t engage in any thought process this is about you winning or losing your first big trade…that is media rating BS

    Nylander or what he gets in a trade are long term assets…don’t jump because the fans, the media, the players, the coach or anyone else are fretting for closing in of a short term deadline

    After the season ends many teams will have just been disappointed with how their season ended and more of them than now will be looking for momentum making changes…like a Nylander..there will not be a lot of better options for them

    This a strategic, multi-million dollar decision…

    Carry On And Keep Cool Kyle….

    Cuddle the wife and kid

    • Well said friend and agree on all counts considering the stage we are at right now with Willy.

      Btw the league needs to do something about these young players and their stupid stats that will lead to Willy demands next year on account of rule changes and smaller goalie equipment…these players did NOT get that much better over 1 year.

    • Wise words OBD

  8. Every time I see a quote from Babcock, it sure seems like everyone fully expects Nylander to sign. Seeing how the cap breakdown works definitely explains why they would wait till last minute. Having the high hit this year and lower hits for rest of contract works perfectly for Toronto. Maybe this was plan all along. League needs to investigate cap circumvention!
    As far as Canes, Zykov was also placed on waivers yesterday, so if anyone has interest they can just claim him.

    • Hi Slick

      I was also in the mindset that Leafs waiting longer did save them in off years’ Cap; and a potential reason for the wait to sign.

      However, waiting until the very last minute can’t, IMO , be using the same rationale.

      Signing him to the same contract last weekend vs. waiting until Sat to sign would only add about $35K ($0.035M) in Cap space in the out years.

      With a likely $84M Cap max next year that is about 0.04% of Cap. I can’t think that GMKD is that concerned about that small amount of Cap space. No team should be planning that tightly.

      Yes every cent counts but I think the delay to the last minute must have more to do with either hammering out the very best deal at the 11th hour; or best trade at the 11th hour; or just sitting firm on the max he was going to sign WW for anyway; and willing to make him sit if WW doesn’t accept.

      Just my thoughts— I could be way off on this.

      Still hoping for a sit and better trade (D) down the road.

      • Hi Pengy, I was going by stuff I read when looking on Leafs pages. Saw quotes from Babcock and Matthews and there doesn’t seem to be any animosity with team and Nylander. ( maybe Dubas and pops)And they talk like they expect him to be playing soon. As far as waiting till last minute, at this point why not maximize savings, no matter how little. They’ve played well without him. And as you said, doesn’t hurt to listen to offers. Maybe Dubas gets one he can’t refuse. But boy does that cap breakdown sure work perfect for them.

      • @ George O …Pengy….Taz

        I’am going to…. EAT CROW…

        you guys are correct and i agree…

        you do have to go after the best player…. regardless of division or conference.

        I think my mindset overall is I got stuck out West because i dont see the players on Philly or the Canes as filling the needed hole that the Leafs need to fill in those deals.

        But where I came around after reading your well said posts and they were well said ..is that I would really think long and hard if Buffalo had asked for Nylander for Ristolainen and that would fill the NEED of position for they are looking for.

        So you guys are correct …democracy is still alive …lol 🙂

        Cheers

      • Kal el…. I think you where both right. George O said if it was “best offer by far”. I agree that Dubas would be more inclined to send him out west. If you look back at E Karlsson trade, it seems Ottowa went out of their way sending him west… even including them getting another 1st rd pick if SJ trades him back east. ( or something like that)

      • Slick, the full details opf the “conditions” are:

        The difference between a 2019 or 2020 first round pick is if the Sharks make the playoffs. If they miss, it’s the 2019 pick. If they do, it’s 2020. Neither would be lottery protected. The 2019 2nd rounder is the higher of San Jose’s pick, or Florida’s pick which is held by San Jose.

        There are two conditional picks as well. First, if Karlsson re-signs with the Sharks, the Sens will receive San Jose’s 2021 2nd round pick. If they also reach the Stanley Cup Final in 2019, that becomes the Sharks 2021 1st round pick (with no lottery protection). Second, if Karlsson ends up on an Eastern Conference roster during the 2018-19 season, the Sens will receive an additional first round pick from the Sharks, no later than 2022.

        As for ensuring he went west, I doubt that entered into the picture. I still have the feeling that they were quite prepared to deal with TB, but ownership balked and that eventually led to Yzerman’s departure. I know, I know – he said it was all about being closer to family, yadda yadda, but as far as I’m concerned that is twaddle. He didn’t just suddenly, during training camp, decide he needed to go closer to “home” – if that were the reason he would have made the decision in the summer.

      • George O. Thanks for breakdown. As I said though, wouldn’t fact that clause about trading him back east exists, that Ottawa preferred him out west? All things being equal, I think a team in east would have to come up with better deal than a western team to get Nylander…. although I still think he signs in next 24

      • I doubt that clause in the deal was front and center – seems more like an add-on by Dorion after umpteen other “conditions” and note that it only applies to a trade back east in the current season. Likely wanted to avoid what happened in the Hoffman deal, at least for this season, with all the hand-wringing angst among the fan base and local media that following the Hoffman yo-yo deal.

    • Edmonton claimed Zykov.

  9. Pengy, question. You mentioned above Pens getting Shultz back. As a Ranger fan I’m looking at Pens as a possible trade partner for Zucharello. Looking at cap friendly, they’re only showing 3.9mil in cap space. Shultz and his 5.5 are listed as long term IR. Would his return put them over? I don’t see how they make any deals to improve. Trading Kessel would free up space, but I don’t see that happening. Trading Murray frees up almost 4, but I can’t see them giving up on a guy that’s only 24 and has been hurt. So, again, what is cap if Shultz comes back

    • Pro rated his cap hit now is less I believe. About 25% into season so 25 percent less?

  10. Hey Lyle, just to follow up. Zykov was placed on waivers yesterday and Edmonton claimed him today

  11. Looks like Kyle Dubas learnt a thing or 2 from Lou. Smoke n Mirrors boys

  12. Zykov can’t hurt the Oilers
    Mcdavid’s next winger until the next one

    • From what I read about him, not much of a skater. Doubt he plays with McD

      • Might get a shot with McD on the PP.

  13. Nothing to do with today’s topics, but a quick glance at the points leaders in the NHL reveals one with a double-take glare – Patrik Laine leads the league with 21 goals – but has all of 3 assists! What the hell – doesn’t he ever pass the puck to his linemates? You’d think he’d have picked up a few more just by osmosis

    • Cy Young numbers for the kid.

  14. George, 26 assists last year is no waste but, his shot is his bread n butter.

    • Oh I realize that – but Jaysus – people get assists when the puck hits them on the butt before deflecting to a goal scorer, especially players who get the ice time he gets. One assist every 7 goals leads to 7 or 8 in a 50 goal season. Now THAT would really stand out. Who does he play with mostly?

      • Haha. I’m sure his assists are all rebounds too!

      • Oh I agree

  15. Kal El

    Was out of the loop in meetings.

    Just did a quick scribble and calc to scratch out a deal that nets Manson and does not compromise An Cap situation

    It’s a crazy one so no way it happens …, but for ships ‘n giggles:

    Today , Leafs sign WW $42M including $7M SB paid today

    Cap this year about $9.3 M and $6.4 M out years (rounded of course)

    After cutting the $7M cheque to WW…. flip to An in multi-player swap:

    WW + Holl + 3rd rounder

    For

    Manson + Ritchie + Perry (An retains 50%)

    An saves a small amount in cap over-all THIS year; gets WW (including the remaining 50% owed to Perry) for around $43M cash but out year cap hit only around $6.4M

    Leafs trade Perry before next season (TDL or off-season) for a 3rd rounder (which they already gave up in trade) … should be worth that for two seasons for receiving team getting him at Cap of $4.3M (and less than that per year in cash)

    Leafs Cap next year for BOTH Manson and Ritchie total at $5.6 M ….less than what they would have been hit for WW

    NET for Leafs …. Manson and Ritchie (plus if wanted ; use of Perry for this playoff season) with Cap savings …. in exchange for WW + Holl …. they’ve not been using either player …. so basically gaining a top 4 D and a top 9 fair sized winger. Worst case he plays 4th line.

    Net An: save slightly on Cap this year; get WW for $43M Cash for 6 years but at $6.4M cap hit out-years ; rid Perry contract; gain a 3rd; for Manson and Ritchie

    Does the math work… yep

    Does it benefit both teams …. yep

    Happening ….. not a chance

    … it’s just a ships ‘n giggles arm-chair GM deal with no pressure on the arm-chair GM

    🙁

  16. Here’s what I’d like to see. Toronto trades Nylander to Vancouver for Edler and Tanev as well as Goldobin and a 1st Round pick. Then you have two D that have played into a Stanley Cup final and maybe they don’t get knocked out in the first round. This helps to give Vancouver a guy to play with Horvat Boeser and Pettersson, while allowing Canucks to also go after Erik Karlsson in the Summer

    • Dubas. That you?

      • LOL. Unless Erik starts producing like he did in past years (he has 2 goals 13 assists 15 pts and is a -9 in 26 gp). I sincerely doubt he’s going to get $12 mil anywhere – let alone Vancouver. With their travel schedule I would imagine that would be among his last choices anyway. Right now, his upcoming game in Ottawa appears to be a touchy subject judging by his walking out of the media scrum in Toronto when someone pointed out that his return to the capital was “nigh” – who the hell uses “nigh” anymore?

      • I think you were a strapping lad when that was last in vogue

  17. I proposed something very similar about a month ago…the negative reaction was along the lines that Perry was a no touch….or no way Anaheim would hold back money….

    I still think it a reasonable idea

    • Sorry OBD

      Perhaps I read your post and forgot it; and it’s rattled around in my little noggin until now and I then posted it … dang … thought I’d come up with a creative solution (that they obviously won’t use) all on my lonesome.

      Sorry for the skullduggery and thievery

      Humblest of apologies

      I’ll have to put my thinking cap on to come up with a 7 team, 15 player mega deal that nets Doughty … LOL

      😂

      • Pengy I didn’t that way at all…in these situations there are limited number of combinations and ideas that have a semblance of credibility….I was in fact surprised at the negative reaction as I think teams trying to increase their flexibility have to put more value on capspace….at the time I proposed the Ducks were suffering a bit….and I see Perry summer training at the same rink I play at….

      • I also put a Doughty idea out there that Canadian King rightly put down…but I am still not sure whether the Kings can rebuild and keep Doughty, Kopitar and Quick…they are complex situations….we are having problems signing a RFA…

  18. Konecny and Gudas for Nylander