Should the Maple Leafs Trade Marner for a Defenseman?

by | Jun 26, 2019 | Soapbox | 46 comments



  1. “A” defenceman signifies Marner even up for what would be considered a single Top 2 either from a GOOD team, or from a middle-of-the-road or even mediocre re-building teams where such an animal exists.

    And that pre-supposes that such a team would be willing to put a severe dent in their D-corps and take on a contract demand which, if rumors are accurate, would be in the $11+ range. Other than Doughty filling that bill – and perhaps Burns in SJ – I can’t think of one situation where that could be a reality.

  2. Please don’t take anything Howard Simon says seriously. He’s just a parrot and should be named Captain Obvious. The only reason he has job is because there is only one sports radio station in Buffalo.

  3. Lyle, I was reading this until you said that trading Marner shouldn’t adversely affect the Leafs’ offence.
    C’Mon Man!

    • In 2017-18, before the Leafs signed John Tavares, they tied with Pittsburgh for the third-best offense.

      Last season, they had the fourth-offense.

      Since they did well enough without Tavares, it stands to reason they’ll do well enough without Marner if they were to trade him. Such is their offensive depth, especially with a healthy Matthews and a full season with Nylander in the lineup.

      • You are correct and offence is not our problem.

        Our offence will be just fine without Marner or Nylander and contrary to what George said there absolutely is a deal out there centered around one of those 2 forwards.

      • You may be right Gary – but I’ve scoured CapFriendly from top to bottom and, if the Leafs expect to receive a Top 2 D-man back, point to one team where you think it’s plausible they would relinquish that while taking on an $11 mil + cap hit. And would the Leafs be happy with just the one D coming back even up.

        Then we can discuss the pros and cons of it actually happening. Would certainly make for an interesting exchange of views you can’t deny.

  4. TO LA: Marner & Zaitsev
    TO TML: Doughty & 2nd

    LA brings up Vilardi and trades off Tiffoli for picks to free up cap space.

    TML gets thier partner for Reilly or Muzzin. Slize Kapanen with Matthews and Nylander up with Tavares

    • Trading a 29 year old D for a 22 year old just hitting prime winger is a tough one without MORE

    • Marner and Zaitsev for Doughty and 2nd and 1st.

      But I still think Marner will sign for 8×10 (okay,10.5).

  5. Oh Wow so much BS about Marner. Look, had enough of this MoFo.

    He’s not Kucherov and Kucherov won the MVP and The Hart and all at $9.5 million per year for 8 years.

    Factoring in Florida no tax and all, Mitch $10-10.5 per season. Doesn’t work for you? See ya.

    I’d trade some combo of Nylander, Zaitsev, Brown for defensive help and see what you have left after doing that. If you can dump Nathan Horton’s contract, do that too.

    Marner is a separate nightmare. U know what? If he is not signed my mid July, after all the July 01 avalanche of contract signings are over with, then let him sit for the entire year.

    Know what Kyle. He’s a great hockey player but he’s not Kucherov, McDavid; I’m not even sure he measures up to Draisaitl; and all these aforesaid players seem ok with the contracts they have.

    After all, all rock stars know that if you’ve got no band to lead to glory, you’re merely a legend in your own mind.

    • Really……and you dont have a problem with Matthews who held the leafs hostage because he wanted to be the highest paid player with one year experience, thanks to Marner! Then you got Tavares, that gets the highest contract hes ever gotten, has a record season, again, thanks to Marner, and Marner, highest scorer on the team….should take less? Really dude? Marner should sit for the entire year? would love to see that, then you will know how great the other 2 contracts signings will have been…….The great Kyle Dumbass will come back to haunt SHANAHAN

  6. Like Justin Bieber?

    • @ George: Ha Ha: U hear what I’m saying though?

      • Oh I hear ya Joey. Unless something opens up in a hurry either Marner or Dubas could either be facing a classic Hobson’s Choice in the next week or so – or you’re looking at a second consecutive hold-out – freeze-out – take your choice which could drag on to the magic must-be-done date early in the season. And if it did drag out until then, would Marner suffer the same adjustment problems faced by Nylander after missing camp and the more wide-open portion of the season? With the way he approaches the game, I’d say no – but that’s something neither the coach nor GM would want to risk. Especially if Dubas blinks first. Again.

    • @George: My point is, Marner believes his comparative value and price point is Matthews.
      Problem with that thinking is Matthews only plays for one team; so in effect, the other 30 teams GM’s would say ” Who gives a s**t” he’s not my player. Their price point is based on their top player. Not Matthews

      Therefore Mitch, ask for the Earth, but if you only get desert, remember, you had a chance to thrive in middle ground as George would say but you ego was too big for your shoes

      • Joey I’m sick of people saying that marner shouldn’t get as much as matthews, everything stats,games played, plays the pk! Marner drives offense I don’t think Tavares has the year he had without marner, he might not be a Center but like a Center he makes ppl around him better

    • Who? You are so old 😉

  7. Trade Marner to the Sharks for Vlasic & a pick.

    • That’s what I meant above in my response to Gary. Looks fine on the surface – but Vlasic has a cap hit of $7 mil for 7 more years. Assuming Marner is seeking around $11 mil (they’d keep him if it was closer to $8), that means SJ takes on an additional $4 mil which means their cap space of $14,842,563 to sign 8 is suddenly down to just under $11 mil. And they have 7 UFAs (Donskoi, Haley, Pavelski, Thornton, Nyqvist, Ryan and Heed) to either sign or replace, along with 3 RFAs (Labanc, Meier and Gambrell).

      Suddenly not doable – unless SJ would deal Karlsson even up. And that’s not happening.

  8. Holy crap why waste time on this? Has history shown you anything?hindsight in general 20/20 what on earth did we learn about the Hall – Larson trade tell us other than the oilers being a hot mess?

    Oh can someone site a case where a team loses their top point producer to an offer sheet or doesn’t get re-signed or is successfully traded for a defenseman.

    • Tell us one and done, what’s going to happen

      • Isn’t that the point?

        PS I don’t reply to posts in general, ones like the one above, I want you to know, I ignore them as in not worth my time. No offense.

      • No worries it’s just you don’t reply when you realize you’re wrong, you said they have to wait to pay zaitsev bonus and I said they traded Marleau before his was paid and there was no difference

      • Ok the reason they had to trade before July 1st is that the buyout period ends the 30th of June. June comes before July – follow?

        Ok the part I’m not 100% on but I think the second buyout period Marleau couldn’t be bought out until after the new year and regardless that, he agreed to waive only if he would be bought out this summer.

        We can agree not quite the same thing and also when your hands are tied, they really are.

  9. Marner’s camp would have been better suited to just have kept quiet with the negotiation process – like Auston Matthews camp and just announce nonchalantly for the Leaf fans so we can root and holler, when pen meets the paper and deal done, but instead, it is becoming vitriol and debated with continual news cycle through the Media and talk tv, radio, social media etc. for rabid fans to digest daily and hourly.

    It’s simple mathematics; Kyle Dubas simply cannot ice a competitive team composed of 3 players potentially being paid 41-44 percent of Hard Cap space!

    Marner’s camp knows full well and would appear in whereby formulating a plan, by using the MSM to conflate/muddy the water to disrupt the market for himself and other RFA’s.

    For those that mention repeatedly goading that The Toronto Maple Leafs cannot win a first round; that’s true, however the same has happened to the Toronto Raptors in the last several years.

    Masai Ujiri of the Toronto Raptors has had to make a very difficult calculated risk by trading fan favourite DeMar DeRosan (Equivalent of Mitchell Marner) best friend to Kyle Lowry (pulse of the team) and are now World Champions.

    It sucked when it happened – “for me, his teammates and Millions” of other fans, but Masai Ujiri had to make an adjustment to his vision and decided to mould and change some of the pieces to achieve a result for a different outcome.

    The same blueprint is available for Kyle Dubas to replicate by changing some pieces and personnel. It’s worth a try…

    Mitchell Marner is a very good to even great player, however he and his handlers cannot dictate and hold hostage a club and especially the very organization that developed him.

    I apologize if I seem bitter.. How’d you feel if you are Morgan Rielly, Nazem Kadri and Frederik Andersen. Total current salary amount of $14.5 million (which is 18 percent of current $80.5 million CAP) between the three added together and they are core veterans. However, Marner’s camp is leaking through MSM that a certain organization is willing to pay him upwards of $13-14 million (17 percent of CAP).

    Leon Draisaitle, Nikita Kucherov; Mark Stone, Rantanen, Pasternak etc.. are all on lucrative deals (lesser than what he’s demanding) and much more deserving and the key is, they all did not negotiate though the media.

    Based on current situation, I truly feel bad for the Club and fans like myself looking forward to a harmonious team that can grow and play together so we can experience what the Toronto Raptors was able to achieve and have a party/parade of mass proportion but I digress.

    Two step forward and five back and before you know it we will be a 7/11 (standing) Team again and time for wishing what could have been.

    I sense that some of the posters want Toronto to rebuild judging from some of the comments. It’s very hard to do even one deal but some are suggesting a multi-player-and teams.

    • @Antoni: Yep bang on: I get Marner’s right to negotiate and stick up for him; but sadly negotiating thru the media via his agent; or whatever source is being utilized; could be seen; at least how its being presented by media as bullying the drafting franchise.

      Mitch, U are a great hockey player: When you’re playing career is done; you will likely have some pretty impressive numbers.

      Thing you have to decide is do you want those numbers and accolades to be associated with your draft and development team, or the team who paid way too much to poach you from that very development team ?

      • Lol when he is retired with everything he wants to buy and relax at, he will be thanking the offer sheets to get him the money early so he can build his bank from high interest! Lol people seem to forget that this is his job, if a rival company came to you with a lot more money you would be lying if you said you wouldn’t take it

    • Great post Antoni.

  10. Boy , I thought I was opinionated . Marner has a right to see what is out there. If he finds something better good for him. Everyone expects him to be loyal and in the next breath we’re saying trade him. Teams for years dictated to players. I know myself when I went to work I looked what was going to benefit my family the most. One thing I know for sure there will be hockey in the fall, and I will be excited whether Marner is in Toronto or Kalamazoo

    • I can’t resist… I didn’t realize that there were so many fluffer jobs available? Lol

      • Fluffer jobs pay well. The best job ever is a nipple tweaker for the models. Lmao

      • 😂🤣

  11. Kadri to Montreal for Juulson and a 3rd. Montreal gets grit, Toronto gets a RD and cap space.

    • I don’t get why people want to trade Kadri. Toronto needs more players with intensity like him.

      • I don’t think the leafs trade him at 4.5 especially for a dman that missed a lot of games due to an injury that wasn’t really released aside from the obvious head injury

  12. Any team that has a D man good enough to trade for Marner is not trading that player.

    Which team has an elite D man to spare?

    • Car. Maybe?

      • The Canes have a bunch of Nylander level D man.

        None of them are a good enough return for Marner.

        Which…of course…is why the Leafs should trade Nylander and keep Marner, but…whatever. Boy Genius got a plan.

    • That’s the problem, the leafs would have to trade for a young grade A prospect and picks and use the saved money for FA dmen

    • La for Doughty a protected 1st there in rebuild mode

    • Maybe Nashville, they tried for a few years with 4 or more top 2 men.

      Maybe now they try with 2 top level dmen and grab another scorer for up front.

  13. TML won’t trade Kadri unless an offer blows their socks off because if they did, they would only have to go out and try and find another 2x 30 goal centre who plays on the edge with some grit. Hard to find.

    I think Naz embarrassed himself badly; at the expense of his teammates, and Naz deserves the right to judge himself first and foremost instead of you and me. I also think Naz is choked at himself; first and foremost; and I believe TML gets this.

    Moving forward, should Naz embarrass himself; and/or his teammates he can expect a quick shuttle to saddle sore bus trips to the minors or to some crappy NHL city where the only fans who show up are the ones that BOOOOOOOO.

    In short, TML will not trade him unless either (a) the offer blows their socks off or (b) Hes become such a pain, even they can’t stand him

    • We saw what Kadri did in scoring goals last year when he wasn’t with top 6 wingers, he doesn’t make his wingers better

      • Ahh, but to be fair Bigbadbruins, Babcock switched him from a two-time 30-goal scorer as a Top 2 C to 3rd line C with the resulting reduced minutes and almost no pp time … missed 9 games and he still scored 16 goals. Hard to find many 3rd line C with 16-goal seasons.

  14. I think all here agree that status quo in Leaf land doesn’t work and even if it did; signing roster from this year is way over Cap

    Improve D a must

    Re Marner …. if he moves on via 4 first rounders non matched offer sheets …, Leafs worse off now… that production must be replaced

    A trade for a D upgrade does work but for me ; the best strategy should be via moving WW after Monday( signing bonus day)… when receiving team gets him for $700 K for 19/20 season and balance of contract at less than $5M AAV (Cap still $7M)

    His recent performance in the worlds along with very attractive contract (after Monday) should be able to garner a top 4 D (mid 20’s) at less than $7M in Cap

    Do that; pay premium (puck or prospect) and move Horton contract; pay another premium (pick or prospect) and move Zaitsev for a bottom pairing D at $2M or less… Cap savings!

    Then sign MM ; Kappy and Johnson

    Leafs then left with somewhere in the $6M range (in Cap ) to fill the final 4 spots …. doable …. D improved ; loss of WW production …. reasonable offset to make D better and team better as a whole

  15. Kadri for a heavy d-man. Someone who can really make the opposing team pay in the corners. Zaitsev for a pick or prospect. Sweeten with Brown. Sign #16, Kappy and Johnsson. Bob’s your uncle. Play the crap outta those high paid players all the time! Bring in the kids to fill the defense in.