NHL Rumor Mill – September 11, 2019

by Sep 11, 2019Rumors83 comments

Update on the Justin Faulk trade rumors plus the latest on Mitch Marner, Patrik Laine, Ivan Provorov, Brayden Point and more in today’s NHL rumor mill.

WILL FAULK ACCEPT A TRADE TO THE DUCKS?

SPORTSNET: In his latest “31 Thoughts” column, Elliotte Friedman reports the Carolina Hurricanes and Anaheim Ducks have a deal in principle but it’s up to Justin Faulk to decide. The Ducks are among the clubs on Faulk’s “no-trade” list. The deal would send the 27-year-old defenseman to the Ducks with winger Ondrej Kase as part of the return to the Hurricanes. 

Will Justin Faulk waive his no-trade clause for the Anaheim Ducks? (Photo via NHL Images)

The Hurricanes interest in Kase stretches back to last season. Friedman notes several clubs expressed surprise over Kase’s availability. He speculates the Ducks could be concerned about his health.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Reports last evening by Pierre LeBrun, Eric Stephens, and Sara Civian indicate a deal still wasn’t done. LeBrun said there still wasn’t a contract extension between the Ducks and Faulk, who’s slated to become an unrestricted free agent next summer. He believes a trade is contingent on a new contract for the blueliner.

In his three NHL seasons, Kase was sidelined for a total of 28 games by concussions and 34 games last season to a shoulder injury. That would explain why the Ducks are willing to part with him.

RFA UPDATES

Friedman believes talks between Mitch Marner and the Toronto Maple Leafs are “tense and personal.” He feels the Leafs are willing to pay $11 million annually if he agrees to a seven-year deal. Sources dismissed rumors claiming both sides would accept a two-year deal. The Leafs and the Marner camp discussed a three-year deal with the third season going as high as $15 million in actual salary, but that was months ago and no longer relevant.

He also reported the Vancouver Canucks and Brock Boeser discussed different contract lengths. It is difficult to get a read on their negotiations…Winnipeg Jets winger Patrik Laine prefers a three-year bridge deal.

NBC SPORTS PHILADELPHIA: Jordan Hall wonders how defenseman Zach Werenski’s new contract with the Columbus Blue Jackets could affect the Flyers negotiations with blueliner Ivan Provorov. Earlier this week, Werenski inked a three-year, $15-million contract. Hall suggests $6 million annually for five years seems reasonable.

THE SCORE: Matt Teague recently cited The Athletic’s Joe Smith reporting contract talks between center Brayden Point and the Tampa Bay Lightning remain at an impasse.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Lots of speculation but nothing to suggest those notable RFAs are any closer to new contracts with their respective teams. Still, that could change with training camps opening later this week.

All eyes are on Marner as it’s believed most of his fellow RFAs are waiting to see what he gets before signing with their respective clubs. However, if his impasse looks like it’ll drag into training camp and preseason, most of his peers could be unwilling to wait that long.

NO MARLEAU IN EDMONTON?

Friedman cited reports out of Edmonton last week claiming the Oilers had interest in Patrick Marleau. He doesn’t think that’s going to happen.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Marleau turns 40 on Sept 15 and his performance noticeably declined last season. An aging winger in decline isn’t going to help the Oilers.







83 Comments

  1. Is it me? I think some of these guys are ok to miss some of Training Camp. The season is a marathon anyway… Keeps them a little fresher for when it matters most.

  2. It would appear that Kyle Dubas and the TML organization are more than generous in the purported money and terms being presented to the Marner group.

    It’s time to cut bait and end this nonsense.

    8 years $90 million final offer.

    • Agreed. I think it’s time for GMs to take a stand and let some of the more frustrating RFA sit for the season. Balance needs to be restored. The whole concept of RFA vs UFA needs to be re-established.

  3. A couple of days ago I listed the 19 RFAs then still awaiting contracts, dividing them into 2 groups – the first listing the 7 I thought would sign this week or early in camp, and the 12 that could miss camp and even part of – if not all – the season.

    Since then it’s been whittled down by two, first Comrie in the ‘Peg and yesterday NJ’s Zacha who apparently went from Jersey to Omsk and back to Jersey in one day.

    Here’s the revised list showing the cap situation of the team concerned, the number of players shown at the ML level by CapFriendly and availability of LTIR funds). After the announcement by Brooks (is he right this time??) that Beleskey will be assigned to the AHL, I decided to move Lemieux and DeAngelo up to the first grouping of those who will soon sign since, as Slick62 points out in the Headlines thread, they have almost no leverage and Gorton now has $2,085,201 to work with as he only has to retain $825,000 of Beleskey’s $1.9 mil cap hit

    Fiala – Minn – $7,958,911 – 20 – no LTIR available
    Rantanen – Col – $15,615,239 – 23 – Cole’s $4,250,000 LTIR available to late Dec
    Mangiapane – Cgy – $7,756,625 – 20 – LTIR of $894,166 for Valimaki available;
    Connor – Wpg – $15,450,836 – 20 – no LTIR available
    Konecny – Pha – $13,417,421 – 19 – no LTIR available
    DeAngelo & Lemieux – NYR – $2,085,201 – 21 – no LTIR available

    These 12, however, could either miss all of training camp and sign on Day 1 after LTIRs become available or, drag on well into the season as did Nylander last season
    Marner – Tor – $2,897,199 over the cap – 24 – LTIRs – Horton’s $5,300,000. Clarkson’s $5,250,000, Dermott’s $863,333 to late Nov & Hyman’s $2,250,000 to late Oct
    Point – TB – $8,476,669 – 22 – no LTIR available
    McAvoy & Carlo – Bos – $7,294,167 – 23 – no LTIR available
    Boeser – Van – $4,158,461 – 25 – no LTIR available
    Provorov – Pha – $13,417,421 – 19 – no LTIR available (see Konecny in the first list)
    Pettersson – Pit – $157,500 over the cap – 23 – no LTIR available
    Tkachuk – Cgy – $7,756,625 – 20 – LTIR of $894,166 for Valimaki available (see Mangiapane above)
    Honka – Dal – $970,001 – 22 – Hanzal’s $4.75 mil LTIR available
    Laine – Wpg – $15,450,836 – 20 – no LTIR available (see Connor above)

    • “These 10, however, …”

    • Vancouver has Roussel ($3 million) to put on LTIR. He’s recovering from knee surgery and won’t be available untIL after Christmas.

    • Fiala just signed for 2 years at $3 mil per

      • Thanks for this update buddy. I was curious what was going on with him.

        (He’s on my fantasy team ha!)

  4. When is Toronto going to stop being stubborn and give Marner the term he wants to take him right to ufa?

    • Day 1 of the season

    • When’s he gonna stop being a spoiled little boy and takes what’s there for the sake of the team? You know the guys who help him pad his stats….see it goes both ways

      • You’re silly.

      • Not sure I would use the same wording as AZ, but I think I get what he is saying.
        The players (not just Marner) know the impact these salaries have on their teams ability to fill out the rosters with better players. To suggest otherwise is would be foolish. That does impact their team mates, and it does impact the fans. Is that a spoiled brat?
        Nah, but you could go with greedy or self centered.
        Yes, ownership maximizes their profits and the players are simply doing the same. But they share revenue now and there is a cap. Almost every team spends close to it where they are profitable and Toronto definitely does. So the you aren’t getting more out of the owner, that has already been negotiated. Simply taking away from available $.
        But, if the reporting is accurate and Marner is walking from $11M, then the team is negotiating in good faith and that is not a low ball offer, but more than fair IMO.
        Is this about ego and winning the deal or …..?
        If you turn down $11M, after seeing your numbers jump playing with a great center, you don’t give a crap about winning.
        I am guessing I may get roasted as naive, so have at ‘er.

      • I’m not even looking at the dollar amount. I believe he wants to get to ufa. Who wouldn’t? To be able to sell your marketable skills on the open market is a right almost every working man has. If this is being delayed cause he wants term designed to allow that then he’s not being the selfish one… Kyle and the leafs are.

      • Chrisms, then take the bridge, which from the reporting, has been offered. With $15M being offered at year 3, but that was months ago and no longer relevant as stated above. He can be a UFA just as fast. So no, it isn’t term it is the money.
        $15M is ridiculous so not sure how accurate that is, but that is what we discuss on here.
        A few million over their career is a big difference for a player in the mid to lower range but when you get into the 8 figures, well, come on man. You’re set for life and so is your family.
        Comparing professional athletes and the NHL to the rest of the business world is a waste of time IMO. Apples and oranges.
        Kyle gets paid to ice a winning team, Mitch gets paid to play and help that team win.
        Can we agree on that?
        Kyle is doing that. Mitch is not.
        The Leafs aren’t being selfish, Mitch is.

      • Sorry bud. My understanding and I’ll be happy to be wrong is Marner offered the 15 mil at the end deal and Kyle rejects. And no. It is completely relevant to compare professional athletes to every one else. I hate to bring politics into it but that’s the way our “wonderful “ system of capitalism works. They, and their family (as I see posts disparaging his father) worked their asses off to get to this point. They owe dick to Toronto or their teammates. Kyle could set up three years of cup competition by working with this guy (and it’s been… 50?) but he is digging in on this ludicrous shanaplan that has already cost them one year of potential cup competition and likely more

        Sigh

        Yup

  5. All this time had no idea Vancouver had such little cap space left for Boeser

    • Amazing that cellar dwelling bottom feeders like Vancouver and Buffalo have zero or very little cap space to work with.

      Clearly a result of the superior management teams they have in place.

      • @Ron
        I know you are not a happy Canucks fan but their moves for JT and Ferland made a lot of sense. Louie and Sutter salaries handcuffing the team already….

      • The $3 million hit from Luongo doesn’t help either.

      • ds,

        Trading a 1st round pick for Miller was a horrible trade. If anything the Lightning should have given up their pick. Benning got fleeced on that deal.

        Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, Sutter and Myers are all vastly overpaid for what they bring to the table. Benning always comes across as willing to overpay just to look like he’s doing something.

        I dont mind the Ferland signing. Canucks need some sandpaper.

        Im a Flyers fan in Vancouver.

  6. What the Faulk !
    I would live in Anaheim. He is probably not sure of the dollars for the next contract. I would be leery of Kase. Have the Canes management confirmed they on moving on ? If so there are no better offers than Kase ? Maybe there is more to add from the Ducks.

    • It’s not uncommon for professional athletes to include the teams they deem most likely to trade for them on their “no trade lists” rather than, or alongside, teams they do not want to play for.

      It’s quite possible Faulk does want to play in Anaheim, but he and his agent identified them as a team likely to trade for him. This gives him the power to negotiate a favorable extension before agreeing to the trade.

    • Anaheim? Why when LA is next door and San Jose is not far away!

  7. Nature, so it is said, abhors a vacuum…..with Kypreous gone someone has to be the village idiot…Elliot Friedman come on down, there is more air time than used to be available to get some of it just exaggerate more

    Somewhere up there it says $15 million and Marner in the same sentence and it also says it is no longer relevant…..it seems a little low to me if he waits to Dec 1 thereby guaranteeing a bad season he should get 50% more than McDavid say 18.75 ….after all it is Toronto…and he did score 23 goals alongside of Tavarres ….he deserves it….he blocked 2 shots on national TV…..how many players do that….

    Elliot things are not getting “intense and personal” ……they are getting insane….

    I love hockey first ….the Leafs second….and like Marner somewhere down the list….I can enjoy the game without him…..and am perfectly ready to do so…

    If Marner gets over 10 ( he is just a symbol) we have come to the place in the unfolding of the hockey universe past redemption….we are probably there….

    Except Werenski signed for 5+ million and Timo Mier 30 goals for 6…so someone is getting it right…but they are free of the Toronto media needs for stories everyday

    Be careful Elliot you are coming upon the point of losing your credibility if you have not already…thank God you are not a journalist

  8. I’ve read several tweets from different talking heads that all are saying the same thing Marner was offered 7 or 8 years at 11m. This is obvious that the leaf camp released this information as a way to gain public support.

    An $11m per looks like an overpayment imo but not based on JT and AM contracts.

    The concern I guessing is were will the cap be in 5 or 6 years, there is a feeling that the cap will rise with a new TV deal hence making the $11m down the road look like Patrnak, Scheifele and MacKinnon deals of today.

    The new bridge deals leaving one year before Ufa status have added a new twist making the last year higher therefore guaranteeing themselves a much higher contract thru arbitration that can be no lower then the last year of the contract.

    Bridging Marner at say 3yrs $33m but a salary structure $9m yr1, $9m yr2 and $15m yr year would mean he would have to be resigned at a minimum of $15m with arbitration rights.

    conspiracy theorist say it’s the agents that are getting their players to hold out and trying to have the bridge deal done away with and leveraging and demanding more money.

    I don’t buy into that but it is interesting to see so many unsigned rfa’s.

    When we anyone sign? are they all waiting on Marner? Did Dubas do this to himself?

    We should start a poll who of the top forward RFA’s will sign first and who will sign last?

    For no reason once so ever i’ll take Rantanen first and Connor last.

    Werenski signed and I’m still waiting for the reported dominos to fall. Or maybe one deal doesn’t make another deal happen.

    • Point first, Marner last.

    • Hi Caper

      My post below took a while to send and was interrupted a couple of times with calls … so posted after yours and because it was mid-post on my phone ; I couldn’t see your post … so I unfortunately have duplicated some of your thoughts …. not intentionally … so sorry

    • Collusion, you say?

    • Caper, well I guess it all depends on the game of dominos. Since Sept 1 the following RFAs have signed

      Barbashev – St.L – 1st
      Adrian Kempe – L.A. – 4th
      Goldobin – Van – 4th
      Perlini – Chi – 6th
      Comrie – Wpg – 7th
      Werenski – Clb – 9th
      Zach – NJ – 10th
      and today, the 11th, Fiala signed in Minnesota for 2 years at $3 mil per and is a UFA again for the 2021-22 season

    • It doesn’t matter where the cap is in 5 years, its what the cap is today and the players percentage of said cap, as well as comparables.

      The Marner camp is beyond reasonable and any sane person should be able to agree on that, even the Leaf haters.

      I’m done with Marner, come back or leave don’t care but will always have a different opinion of him now.

      • Agree Gary. Unless of course all the reporting is not accurate and he signs for a long term reasonable deal for less than the rumored amount.
        Not sure how the teams get a handle on this, but sooner or later the mid range guys are gonna get squeezed, you would think they may have something to say in a year or 2. Are they going to start missing camp too?

  9. The one thing sensible about the Matthews contract is that ( I think) it ends the same time as does McDavid’s contract….that might be the long term plan behind that…

    I think the Nylander contract I think is reasonable. His fancy stats. the kind Dubas likes are better than Marners….I am not a fancy stat. guy but my eye tells me NYlander will have a good year…..my eyes have been wrong many times

    Marner’s tires have been pumped by so many talking head tweets and agent & Daddy talk , I am surprised he not orbiting the earth

    • Trade him for best offer that includes a RD that can play 1st pair minutes with Rielly

      • Snap! Just like that eh?. I can just see some teams pushing each other out of the way to dangle a valid and recognized as such 1st pairing D-man (among other goodies??) for the privilege of having to deal with a hold-out reportedly asking for what many in Toronto have declared as totally unreasonable and selfish. Which sucker …. err, GM – did you have in mind for this display of legerdemain? Come on, man stay reasonable.

    • OldBlueDog, the thing to watch closely with Nylander will his early season stats vis-a-vis how he does when mid December rolls around and the checking (and hitting) gets a lot more intense as teams begin to vie for position,

      The stats history is full of players who scored often while allowed to free-wheel – the Mr. Octobers, somewhat similar to the Mr. April-Mays of baseball before the hitters starts seeing a bigger dose of the breaking ball.

      If he’s still producing at close to the same pace he does in the early months, then he’s changed his approach and will have a very good year. If not …

    • LOL, I agree.

      If I am the Leafs I tell Marner , Daddy and his Agent, “Heres how this is gonna go” We will offer you 11 for 7 or a reasonable Bridge Deal and you accept by Tomorrow. If this is still ongoing by Opening night the price goes down. 1 million on every offer. If no resolution by November 1st we ask you the Teams you would not like to be traded to and start negotiating with them. If by December 1st, no deal, then no play and no paychecks. See how valuable you are for a full season without any points, how many endorsements you are offered, and see how many players will be willing to score goals on Tavares Wing. Lots of money here for you Mitch, and remember its US, not Canadian Dollars.

      • Murph, Marner benefited from Nylander being out of the lineup thus increased points…

        Truth be told my sense is Marner’s camp is most likely upset that “TML and management ” will not trade William Nylander to sign him for whatever money and term.

        William Nylander will immediately impact negatively in his point production as demonstrated last year lining up with John Tavares and skating extra minutes in the Special Team. Easy enough to prove: https://www.nhl.com/player/mitchell-marner-8478483?stats=gamelogs-r-nhl&season=20182019

        Mitch Marner had 36 points prior to William Nylander signing.

        Mitch and handlers must know that the gig is up! There’s simply no putting the genie back in the bottle in this juncture. Kyle Dubas having no choice and is now being transparent through the media and he and Management are just being polite for the optics.

  10. I agree with OBD on his take of EF…. “intense and personal “

    Was he in the room/in the negotiation teleconference

    Methinks term is key for MM and not necessarily more important than dollars

    I have absolutely no challenge to any player negotiating for what they are worth (term as well as dollars) especially if he was the top point getter in the team and much much better IMHO than the player who held out last year

    I’m sure he would love to have a term that puts his next contract negotiations at the same time as the other two …. expiring 1/7/24

    That is the fairest IMO

    Dubas obviously doesn’t want to make the same mistake …. taking another player straight to UFA status ; unless it is for 7 or 8 years…. risky for both sides

    Bridge (2 or 3)

    I posted yesterday wrt the model now in place by Werenski

    I don’t believe there will be anybody here who balks at an AAV of 3 years just shy of $9M which the media has reportedly stated the Leafs have offered

    $8.8 M AAV for 3 ($26.4 M):

    1) $8.8 Sal each year
    2) $8 M SB ; $6.1 , $6.1; $6.2
    3) $12 M SB; $700 K ; $1.7 M; $12 M

    All three identical $26.4 M contracts and Cap hit of $8.8 M

    Diff is the Qualifying offer after 3 years (see Werenski contract) to resin rights:

    1) $8.8
    2) $ 6.2 M
    3) $12 M

    So it’s not all in the raw number AAV/Cap

    🤞🙏🤞🙏 that this gets done

    • 2 year bridge at $8.8 M AAV/Cap

      $8.8 , $8.8 … QO $8.8

      $6M SB; $5.8 M ; $5.8 M ; QI $5.8 M

      $4.9 M SB ; $700 K; Yr 2: $ 12 M; QO … $12M

      Big diff for same Cap hit

  11. Perhaps, Kyle Dubas’ plagiarised his treatise “How Analytics has Limited the Impact of Cognitive Bias on Personnel Decisions.” Perhaps, his analytics are flawed. Perhaps, he needs to review both before continuing to negotiate contracts.

  12. I will be truly happy when this Marner situation is done. Hopefully with a reasonable 7.5million per deal. Otherwise traded away. At this point he’s telling his team “I don’t care about the team”. Trade away as many teammates you have to, so I can get the money I want. Besides if he thinks he’s that great, in 3 years he’ll be able to get 15-17 million a year.

  13. As a Leafs I am so tired of the Marner BS- just trade the guy already- yes he is a great player- he isn’t worth the same money as a Matthews I don’t care what anyone tells me. I can point out that he has had prime powerplay time for 2 years for 2 years while Matthews just last year- that he had steady linemates for 2 years – that he was centred by John Tavares last year while Matthews had marleau and Kapanen at times last year. I cant point out 5 x 5 numbers but wont matter – marner guys are marner guys.
    Stop- it isn’t close- its silly – we know where franchise centres rank in terms of value. Ask the penguins how it has worked with an rotating slew of wingers for Malkin and Crosby- just fine. Would love to have but the kid is an egomaniac- I believe nothing until Mckebnzie reported it and Chris Johnson as well- time to move on. Something tells me Marner will be playing the role of Demar Derozan in the spring-

    Toronto fans have come full cirle- they would rather trade him then over pay him- never thought it could happen.
    Time to move on

    • Yup. I’m ready for Marner to go. Would LOVE to see an offer sheet come our way.

  14. Bruins are in big cap hell they need to sign Carlie and Carlo and next year they have Jake how much will he get? If Marner gets 11million with 26 goals and zero playoff rounds won and Debrusk had 27 goals with plenty of playoff success he may want 13

  15. If I’m Mitch Marner I be pissed at the leafs for leaking the contract offers that were made to him.

    Pierre LeBrum, Elliotte Freidman, Darren Dreggar and Bob McKenzie have all now tweeted and retweeted what the leafs offered Marner as far back as June.

    Not sure what Dubas game plan is but obvious it didn’t work and now trying a new strategy.

    Here is what we do know Nylander held out until December 1st got his money and was paid a full season no penalty for holding out.

    Why would Marner think it will be any different for him as GMKD has previously shown his hand. With the Nylander and Matthews negotiations.

    I might have to change my opinion on who will be last to sign.

    • Kyle Dubas cannot replicate the same and or similar deal of William Nylander.

      Team will not have the $$ to pro-rate the contract on the first year.

      If Marner does not sign by tonight or end of cap, Us TML fan might as well consider him persona non grata.

    • Caper, the agent could be leaking offers too.
      Can training camp start, like, yesterday?

  16. Marner is a baby! Crying over some rookie bonus three years ago, the guy makes millions with endorsements in Toronto, if he seriously is turning down 11 million over 7-8 years then he is a jerk

    • Outside of Matthews and Tavares name ONE current Leaf you see as capable of producing 94 points. Just one.

      • I’ll bite, William Nylander full time right winger for Auston Matthews and either Johnsson or Kerfoot playing left wing.

      • Nylander, believe it or not.

      • Doesn’t matter. You need players committed to their team and teammates. Not there bank account

      • OK. Well, we might just find out how accurate that is. Gonna be an interesting season all across the board.

    • I love how people talk about leaving millions on the table! And all this “team : teammates bs.

      Stop! Not one of you would leave a dime on the table for “the good of the (successful) company” or coworkers.

      Not ONE!

  17. I would take Matthews any day of the week over Marner. To suggest Tavares benefited more to have Marner on his line is a complete insult to Tavares. Tavares has proven over the years that he makes his line mates better. Marner is a very good player but is letting his ego get in the way. Trade him to Carolina for Faulk and svechnikov. Sign Barrie , Muzzin and Faulk to extensions and you have you top 4 D for the next 5 years.

    • Jeff, if you could extend Faulk at a reasonable #, that isn’t too bad.
      Not sure Carolina, is lining up to sign Marner for 5 years at $11M.

      • This doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense. Why trade Svechnikov, who is making ~10% what Marner will be making?

        Is Marner the better player now, sure – I won’t argue that. But is he 1000% better? Uh, no. And it seems to me that the whole Hurricanes front office is focused on value (and doing a pretty good job at it right now). This isn’t value.

      • You can bet on that Ray! What gets me is that many in here who have labeled Marner as selfish, greedy, over-rated, too small, unreasonable, out of touch with reality and worse, then turn around in the same breath and say trade him for quality returns. If they think they truly have an accurate picture of the kid, what the hell makes them think someone else doesn’t think the same way? Such as GMs?

        I get the frustration, especially following on the heels of the Nylander fiasco last year, but come on! Let’s at least be realistic.

      • Standing ovation George!

        Preach!

  18. Trade Marner to the furthest place away from TML..sooner the better-overrated, undersized and not worth more than 7-8 at the most.

  19. Marner is a better player than Matthews, regardless of position played.
    You can twist stats and antiquated position importance all you want.
    He’s better than Matthews and close to Tavares at the game.

    Trade Nylander.

    If Matthews is so great, it shouldn’t matter who his linemates are.

    I wouldn’t want to settle for a lower salary than a colleague who doesn’t perform at or above my proven record.
    I don’t think any of the Leaf faithful would either. Especially just to do it for the team.

    • If Marner is so great then why did he not put up 94 points and have JVR pot 50 the year before last…if he is better than Taveras and Matthews.

      • Because he just finished his 3yr entry level contract and each season he has more goals, assist and points then the previous season. Question is what is his ceiling or did he reach it?

  20. Yup. I’m ready for Marner to go. Would LOVE to see an offer sheet come our way.

  21. ??? Reach his ceiling???? …..

    He has had stuck right through it as he is being pushed from beneath by current players who want to set precedents and cause problems on another team (Marchand)…he is being pumped by ex-players with NHLPA shills who don’t care about the fans just contract levels (Kypreous)…..commentators on the sidelines that could never make it in hockey and are not interesting in of themselves unless there is an apparent issue more interesting than they are ( Friedman/Dreger)

    One of these guys had a 15 million number in one season for Marner….fair really….only 25% higher than McDavid after all who is generational here McDavid or Marner??

    Anyone out there capable of seeing Marner and lots of other small light as well) pushing through the Saint Louis defense in April

    Act in the best interests of your team Dubas…..no more no less…..

    • Marner generates the 24 most scoring chances of all NHL forwards.
      Marner generates the 4th most scoring chances on the Leafs behind Tavares, Matthews and Nylander (22nd overall).
      His numbers jumped (24 pts) playing with Tavares, Tavares improved by 4.
      And if you are going to trash analytics as trash or “fancy stats” then please also explain why every professional sports team now has a full analytics department and continue to invest more $$ in improving it and gaining an edge.
      Marner is better than Nylander as he plays a 200′ game and is excellent on the PP, and even killed penalties starting part of the way through the season.
      He isn’t better than Tavares or Matthews. And yes high end centers are harder to find and deserve more.
      If Marner was that great he would be one and make more $$, but he can’t.
      He deserves more than Nylander and less that Tavares and Mathews.
      $9M for 5 yrs to get him to UFA, and see ya.

      • Ray ….I did not try to trash “fancy stats” but tried to say I don’t understand them….I also acknowledged the eye test which I use….has failed me many a time..

        As to the points you make regarding the comparative and absolute value of Marner I agee with almost all of them….more $ than Nylander less than Matthews….my own biased opinion based on my fallible eye test is closer to Nylander than Matthews….

        A good response Ray “Borque” …I respect and appreciate it…

  22. I am a die hard fan, Marner is not worth more than 8.5 to 9 million per year. I would be looking at trading him to the west or let him sit. Enough is enough he is good but not that good.

  23. Wow

    Stepped away for a few hours and back to see many dump on MM

    Again , I have no challenge for any player negotiating for what they think is fair and especially if they are the point leader on the team

    When my VP came to me last year to work out his new contract it wasn’t what I was willing to renew him at. The negotiations and meetings were lengthy and productive and I believe we are both better off for the process. The final agreement was off from both of our original positions. I’m ecstatic that he is still with us. We have a great relationship.

    It’s all part of the negotiation process

    We’ve heard (potentially) what was offered (part of this I’m sure is speculation on part of reporters and stringing together bits and pieces of “secret “ information they have been given) but not much (if anything at all) wrt any counter proposals from the MM camp

    I’m speculating here; but my sense is that he would like the same term as AM so that he is in the same negotiating window as AM and WW …. able to re-sign/extend as of 1/7/23.

    Leafs , from all I’ve seen, absolutely do not want that scenario.

    Putting $’s aside ; shouldn’t MM have the right to the same term as AM? I believe so

    With my assumptions above; there is the possibility that every offer listed to have been given out by GMKD …. 2 year; 7 year; 8 year is immediately countered with a 5 year term proposal … who knows?

    WW didn’t get dumped on anywhere near this level last year; and MM is the top point getter for the team and IMHO a far better player at every point in the rink and every situation, than WW… just my opinion

    Setting aside my talent bias in favour of MM over WW; the MM camp has every right to negotiate for what they believe is fair (as I’ve said; I believe 5 year is likely much more important than the actual Cap)

    I have no right to judge if he is asking too much unless I hear what he is actually asking for

    If the few reports out there of truly high demands on AAV (note very few speculating what his camp actually asked for; mostly reporting what he turned down) are true ; we’ve no idea if these were response demands to offers (term most likely) that is unacceptable to him:

    Let’s say an offer reportedly was $11 M ; and MM felt is was certainly more than fair years 1-3; about right yr 4; but progressively low years 5-7 when Cap is expected to be nearing $100 M (after the many times claimed big US TV deal is in full swing)…. he doesn’t want this deal ; so counters with a 5 year deal say at 10…. Leafs reject as it is 5 years which they don’t want …. the public hears that MM rejected 7 @ $11M and not his counter; and deem him greedy and not worth $11M

    It is all speculation right now

    The one piece of information that I just can’t buy is the claim of bridge offer with final year at $15M…. and therefore QO has to be $15M…. want to buy some swamp land ????

    This biased poster hopes for MM to be on the roster as soon as possible

    🤞🙏🤞🙏🤞🙏

    • One thing for certain, Pengy, if Marner gets that kind of 3rd year deal and Provorov gets anywhere NEAR the $10 mil he’s reportedly seeking from Pha, a work stoppage at the first opportunity is in the cards. Bank on it.

      • Drouin and 2 1sts from MTL for Marner

        Domi with Marner =)

        make Price happy

        done!

      • Hi George …. your right

        But absolutely no one is getting $15 M in a 3rd deal bridge

        I don’t know where they got that from

        $12M in the third year ; however hard to swallow; would absolutely have to be the max ….. whoever was coming up with $15 M in yr 3 must have been partying with the real Timothy Leary

      • Hi IHC

        again ; I don’t want any trade of MM

        However any trade of Leaf forwards has to be for a young D with top 4 potential (or already at top 4)

        …. and … I reiterate it has to be WW traded first

        Now ur trade from a Habs perspective … of course GMMB would take that in a heartbeat

    • Regarding WW not getting dumped on like Marner is now. WW did not ask for over 11 million, or in 3 years to qualify for 15 million. If Marner got that 3 year deal where he ends up having to qualify at 15 million and Willy is still at 6.9, then we are saying Marner is more than twice as good. As for MAtthews he did not have consistent line mates all year and was injured. I cannot wait to see what he and WW and a decent LW could produce. Marner had the benefit of more ice time, consistent line mates, one being JT who only scored 4 more than he did the year before without Marner. Marner got 20 more points playing with JT. How many points would MArner have gotten if KAdri was the second line centre. Don’t get me wrong, tons of respect for Naz, but Mitch needs to be realistic. Supposedly Leafs have offered 11 million reasons for there to be no I in Team.

      • Murph, Marner benefited from Nylander being out of the lineup thus increased points…

        Truth be told my sense is Marner’s camp is most likely upset that “TML and management ” will not trade William Nylander to sign him for whatever money and term.

        William Nylander will immediately impact negatively in his point production as demonstrated last year lining up with John Tavares and skating extra minutes in the Special Team. Easy enough to prove: https://www.nhl.com/player/mitchell-marner-8478483?stats=gamelogs-r-nhl&season=20182019

        Mitch Marner had 36 points prior to William Nylander signing.

        Mitch and handlers must know that the gig is up! There’s simply no putting the genie back in the bottle in this juncture. Kyle Dubas having no choice and is now being transparent through the media and he and Management are just being polite for the optics.

  24. What makes the RFA’s think they can’t get hurt skating for UND or Switzerland or Minsk for that matter ? Brian Leetch broke his ankle stepping out of a cab.
    Risk tolerance would be on my mind. Unless they get low balled get the deal done. A lot of players let the agents rule . They will,step in eventually . One thing for certain is hockey players want to play

  25. Marner was my favourite Leaf last year. I would’ve liked to have seen the hometown boy in Blue and White for his whole career. If the rumoured rejection of 7 x 11 is true, trade the runt.