NHL Rumor Mill – August 26, 2020

by | Aug 26, 2020 | Rumors | 90 comments

What next for the Leafs and Penguins following yesterday’s Kasperi Kapanen trade? Check out the latest in today’s NHL rumor mill.

TORONTO SUN: Lance Hornby singled out the Maple Leafs’ acquisition of a first-round pick (15th overall) and prospect forward Filip Hallander while freeing up salary-cap space from shipping winger Kasperi Kapanen to the Pittsburgh Penguins yesterday. Leafs general manager Kyle Dubas isn’t ruling out shopping that pick if it would help his team. “If there’s another Jake Muzzin, we’d be interested, to put it mildly,” he said.

Dubas also suggested he might not be done dealing. “I don’t think this will be it for us,” he said. “We need to gain greater (cap) flexibility than what we have.” The Leafs GM pointed out they have to re-sign restricted free agents Travis Dermott and Ilya Mikheyev and he’d like more space to address other needs.

Could Frederik Andersen become the next player traded by the Toronto Maple Leafs? (NHL Images)

Hornby’s colleague Michael Traikos wondered if the Leafs will trade another third-line winger, or replace goaltender Frederik Andersen with a more affordable (but unproven) option, or break up their core. He feels they need a defenseman or two and a scoring forward who plays with a snarl like former Leafs Nazem Kadri is doing with the Colorado Avalanche.

Traikos suggested trading Kapanen opens up cap room to perhaps pursue Boston’s Torey Krug, Calgary’s T.J. Brodie or Travis Hamonic or Vancouver’s Chris Tanev via free agency. They could even pursue St. Louis’ Alex Pietrangelo if Dubas moves out another player like Andreas Johnsson, Alexander Kerfoot, or even William Nylander.

Signing Pietrangelo, however, could cost between $8 million and $11 million annually. Traikos also warns there’s no certainty those free-agent blueliners will sign with the Leafs. “After all, it’s not like the team has won anything lately.”

THE SCORE: Josh Gold-Smith cites The Athletic’s Pierre LeBrun reported the Leafs also spoke to the Anaheim Ducks, Carolina Hurricanes, Chicago Blackhawks, Minnesota Wild, Nashville Predators, and New Jersey Devils before trading Kapanen to the Penguins. The Leafs attempted to reacquire the pick they sent to the Hurricanes last summer but the Canes weren’t interested in parting with the 13th overall selection. The Blackhawks also balked on moving their first-round pick (17th overall).

THE ATHLETIC (subscription required): James Mirtle cites sources indicating Kapanen wasn’t the only player dangled by Dubas in the trade market since the Leafs were eliminated from the qualifying round two weeks ago.

Andersen could apparently be had in a salary-dumping deal, leading Mirtle to wonder if the Edmonton Oilers might be interested if they can find the cap room. Kerfoot, Pierre Engvall, and Johnsson were also mentioned. The Leafs could free up $17 million if they could move all four.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Dubas is not done making moves after yet another disappointing postseason performance. I concur with Traikos that the Leafs GM must bolster his blueline and bring in a physical scorer. Perhaps he’ll revisit talks with some of those clubs he spoke with regarding Kapanen. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Dubas shops that first-round pick. Their core players – Nylander, Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, John Tavares, and Morgan Rielly – will be between 22 and 29 when next season begins. The Leafs don’t want to waste their playing primes.  They’re in “win-now” mode and could use that pick to bring in a player who can immediately address a roster need. If there are no suitable offers, Dubas can retain that pick and perhaps use the prospect selected as part of a deal in the near future to bring in an impact player.

Signing any of those UFA defensemen listed by Traikos will require freeing up more salary-cap payroll. Cap Friendly indicates the Leafs have $73.7 million tied up in 16 players. Signing one of those blueliners will eat up most or all of that cap room, leaving nothing for Dermott and Mikheyev.

Landing Pietrangelo won’t be easy. Indeed, it might not be possible, as the Blues captain already stated his wish is to stay in St. Louis. And no, he’s not going to accept less than whatever the Blues offer to “come home” to Toronto. St. Louis is his home now and it’s where he wants to stay. If that’s not possible, he’ll seek a lucrative deal in the UFA market despite the flattened salary cap for next season. If the Leafs want him, they’ll have to pay a lot to sign him.

Krug will also be expensive, though nowhere near as much as Pietrangelo. Figure it could cost between $6-$7 million annually. Brodie, Hamonic or Tanev won’t cost that much but they’ll still eat up a big chunk of change, perhaps over $5 million annually. Assuming the flat cap hurts their UFA value, they could seek cap hits similar to what they’re making now.

Moving Andersen is dangerous unless Dubas intends to add a better option and that might not be readily available. He could pursue Braden Holtby or Robin Lehner via free agency, but either guy could cost more than Andersen’s current $5 million AAV. In Holtby’s case, it would be ponying up for what appears to be a declining asset.

It’ll be interesting to see what Dubas and his capologist have in mind. They proved capable of salary-cap gymnastics last summer, but those moves failed to improve the Leafs. He must do better this time around and that won’t be easy given the current economic landscape.

PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW: Seth Rorabaugh believes the Penguins’ addition of Kapanen rules out re-signing pending UFA winger Conor Sheary. He also suggests it clouds the futures of restricted free agent goalies Matt Murray and Tristan Jarry and forwards Jared McCann and Dominik Simon.

THE ATHLETIC (subscription required): Pierre LeBrun suggests Murray could be the next Penguin on the move. Rutherford already indicated he needs to trade one of his goalies and sources told LeBrun his focus is on moving Murray. His RFA status (with arbitration rights) is a sticking point. One source said they’re worried the goalie could command $6 million in arbitration, after which he’s eligible for unrestricted free-agent status.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Murray’s injury history and inconsistent play could also be a concern. Rutherford might have to package him with a draft pick or prospect if teams are worried about his contract for next season.


  1. Pens fan here in the minority, I loved that trade … no way the Pens get an impact player at #15, KK has speed & a little grit, exactly what the Pens need … what most fans don’t understand is that Mario & Ron Burkle want to win NOW … Crosby’s & Malkin’s don’t fall off of trees very often and they both still have chops … Rutherford could care less about the future or how he leaves the team when he retires, Pens want to win more Cups today …he needs to turn to his putrid blue line next and fix that sewer …

    • if TML was changing their goalie they would of probably entertained murray from the pitts—so luckily they didn’t do that with kap trade

    • Hi Ed

      Trade to me was fair … like it as a Pens fan; like it as A Leafs fan

      The 4 other players are saw offs

      Basically it is ER and 15th overall for Kappy… fair

      From Pens view… Kappy in Sheary out …. cost extra 200 K in Cap… Kappy faster; bigger; 4 years younger; better numbers ; and under contract

      Since Sheary and ER were Pens via trading out Kahun (who Maata was flipped for)….

      In reality (LOL) …. Maata & 15th to get Kappy ; save 900 K in Cap; faster; better for team; 2 years younger

      For Leafs

      They cleared $1.2 M in cap savings (if they qualify ER) ; $3.2 M if they don’t; and have the 15th to use in another trade (foolish to keep pick… window now … and that pick “may” be a depth forward or 7th D; 3 years from now)

      Leafs needed space

      Kappy on Leafs was flitted between lines and misused IMHO so his value to Leafs no where near value to Pens

      Win win

      I’d honestly flip in Kappy exactly where they had Sheary

      Laffy and WBS grad as 13th/14th

      Marino/ Pettersson
      Czuczman or P-O J as 7th D

      MM & TJ

      • Who is Soucy?

      • High Marko

        Carson Soucy

        Late bloomer D man… just turned 26 last month.. big (6’5”; 210) smooth skater; great presence; really played well for Wild this year…. AND he’s UFA …. a rarity to get an NHL quality DMan UFA @ only 26 years old …he did 4 years at University before Wild signed him that is why he’s UFA eligible at 26

        Was 7-7-14 in 56 GP and was +16 on a team that had just as many GF as GA. His +16 was highest on the team and he only played 55 games and averaged only 15:40 TOI

        Him on Pens is a dream of mine. Soucy in for JJ all but guarantees 5 – 7 extra wins and saves Cap and cash

        Would also love him as a Leaf

        I’m sure Oil have their eyes out for him (he’s from Viking Alta)

      • Pengy

        Could your affinity for two competing teams be having the same effect as the proverbial house divided against itself?

        The Leafs, in their present position, are forced to value cap room more highly than they value player assets. For instance, on June 22, 2019, the Leafs traded their first-round pick, a seventh-round pick, and Patrick Marleau to the Hurricanes for the ‘Canes sixth round pick. The Leafs paid player assets for cap space.

        The Kappy trade shows that the Leafs still aren’t out of the hole. The first rounder they got from the Penguins compensated for the one they gave the ‘Canes, but the player assets they received, including the “B’ grade prospect, may never skate for them. They’re still without the defenseman they desperately need, but they’ve gained cap room. The Pens, on the other hand, by taking advantage of the Leafs’ plight, gained an assured NHL starter, not future possibilities, one of which could be a Nail Yakupov. The Penguins may have made out better than the Hurricanes.

        The Penguins were in the same position when they traded Maatta. The trade was mostly a salary dump made to gain cap room, so it can’t be said that the Penguins got zilch for Maatta.

      • Francis really should post more often.

      • Hoo ya, I second that

      • Hi Francis

        Nice analogy 👍

        Both Pens and Leafs have Cap issues…. Pens Technically much easier to fix ; but GMJR refuses to do the most obvious

        The frealy thing re the Marleau deal wasn’t from Leafs side but from Canes side

        Leafs loaded with cash so money never an issueand they work things in any way they can that costs cash premiums but works to get deals done … massive SBs are ine example

        Canes not a rich team ; but effectively $3.8 M (to Marleau) cash to buy a first rounder; when at that time they should have at least expected Leafs to make playoffs and possibly win a round… so likely thinking a pick in the 20th-25th spot…. $3.8 M !!!!

        They lucked out to get the lowest possible pick (16th as highest ranked non playoff team)…. but $3.8 M is a big chunk to pay for a pick that may not yeild anything; and at best gets a player on Leafs in a bottom 6 or bottom pairing slot in ‘22-‘23

        I’m not happy with both GMJR and GMKD

      • Thanks, Shoreorrpark and George O., and Pengy, too. With so much hockey knowledge presented here, this site can be intimidating. I’m sure that if I posted often, I’d say something stupid enough to get my head bitten off. Sometimes, I have fun just sitting back and learning.

      • Saying something stupid is a right of passage.

        Come. Join us.

      • Pengy… Bng here!!
        I think you arent looking at the defense clearly.. Marcus Pettersen needs to be on the third defense pairing. We must find a top 4 dman [lefthanded] to play with blossoming Marino. Defense wi s and we need that guy to make our top 4 strong.. Petterson with pierre Oliver Joseph a ufa or so.eone other than Johnson..

      • Hi BnG

        I do feel Pettersson is fine; really I do. He’s had some hiccups but if I look at the season as a whole…. Pettersson / Marino compliment each other well

        But if you insist… Soucy 2nd pairing; Pettersson 3rd pairing

        The absolute key is …. JJ must go; Ruhweedel to WBS is fine

        I’m so confused why they keep Ruhweedel up…. Czuczman younger; much bigger; much faster; far superior player; same cap hit 😡🤬🤪😭

    • Agree with Ed, Pens won that deal.
      If the Leafs actually draft a player with Kapanen’s production it won’t happen for 2-3 years. If it happens which is still a maybe.
      Pens in win now mode, so are Leafs. Leafs are desperate to shed cap space and fix blue line so couldn’t wait for a better deal. And still haven’t done what they need to in order to actually contend.
      We will see what else Dubas has up his sleeve.
      Carolina wouldn’t move 13? Taking Askarov?

    • You love giving up a first rounder PLUS prospects for a third liner?

      • Garth , laughing , Kapanen plays RW on Crosby’s line and chance plays left circle on PP !!

    • Erik Karlsson was drafted 15th? was pretty impactful

    • Hey Ed,

      Couldn’t agree more. I thought the trade was a fine get for a team with a couple more shots at the cup.

  2. Am I reading that right? F Anderson has had a .922 and .936 SV% over the last 2 playoffs, both times elevating his SV% over his regular season play?
    WOW! Put him in front on a Team with any sort of Defense and he is going to be incredible. Guy would look really good in Chicago. If Tor trades him someone is going to get a solid goaltender.

    • OEL, Raanta for AM 34

      Solves problems for both teams. Won’t happen though

      • No that definitely wont happen.
        34 is one of the best young players

      • Everyone counts Rosen and Marincin in there cap hit of16 .That’s another 1.5 million available

    • Anderson being the scapegoat not the young forwards or the swiss cheese D

    • no you are reading it wrong and making assumptions—andersson isn’t the problem–its the D—i am glad they didn’t bring in murray
      ASSUME makes an a** out of U and ME

    • Frederik Andersen – playoff
      series deciding games:

      Year – SA – SV – SV%

      2014 – 12 – 8 – .667
      2015 – 27 – 25 – .926
      2015 – 19 – 17 – .895
      2015 – 26 – 21 – .808
      2016 – 20 – 18 – .900
      2017 – 36 – 34 – .944
      2018 – 35 – 29 – .829
      2019 – 30 – 27 – .900
      2020 – 21 – 19 – .905

      Total – 226 – 198 – .876

      Far from solid when it counts.

  3. Interesting to read Leafs had many conversations with many teams. More deals coming? While a lot of folks here have speculated about waiting for better deals when playoffs are over, I’d say with so many teams up against the cap, now is best time to get the jump on teams still in playoffs. Snooze you lose!

  4. There is a Russian goaltender in this years draft . The read on him is totally outstanding. There is also a can’t miss prospect in a defenseman – Sanderson – both will go higher than the 15 position , Leafs will have to trade up to obtain one of those players .
    I think the Leafs are in win mode now .
    I am sorry , I disagree ; therefore Dubais might very well trade this pic , part of a larger deal, for a defenseman .
    This is a very strong , deep draft . I feel they might have to break up their core, not a rebuild , but tweaking their present lineup is mandatory .
    A scoring winger is in demand .
    Leafs can afford to trade a Marner , or Nylander .
    Obtain another first round pick in this years draft , as Sanderson and this Russian goaltender are almost NHL ready from what I am reading , researching .
    What will Freddie Anderson bring in today’s market , as per the above mentioned article, I am not sure . I like Anderson, but he will want an increase , as per his present 5 million per season , and I honestly don’t believe he is the guy to take them over the top .
    I also don’t believe Kyle Dubais has the vision to build a Stanley Cup contender , hopefully, I am
    Wrong .
    The Kapanen trade was an awesome trigger pt, moving forward , but don’t blow it buy obtaining – just an average , older defenseman , whom they might think otherwise – a panic trade move in my opinion .
    Muzzin is not a top 4 defenseman , he is slow, older and injury prone .
    I can’t emphasize more, as per this years draft and the “2” above mentioned players, Sanderson and the Russian kid- elite goaltender prospect .
    Leafs same old , same old , most likely won’t see it this way !
    If they mess it up this time , there will be a tear down and rebuild ahead in the near future

    • Ken, when you say “Leafs can afford to trade a Marner ($10 mil) , or Nylander (almost $7 mil)” I have to repeat – trade them where? Three-quarters of the league are in a cap bind so any of those teams would be in the same bind – finding someone to take the cap hits they’d need to shed in order to take either of those on. The other quarter of the league have cap space ranging from limited to modest to lots (about 4 of them) but what would the Leafs expect from them even if they were amenable to taking either?

      Yes, trading either would go a long way to alleviating the Leafs’ cap woes – but they’re not going to get anything from any of those teams that would solve their D problems. Nor do I see any of them wanting a 10 million dollar man.

      • “Three-quarters of the league are in a cap bind so any of those teams would be in the same bind”

        Well then, I guess that leaves 25% of the league who could afford to trade for him, eh?

        Do you need 30 teams to be interested or do you just need one team to make the right offer?

      • Garth, instead of just reactionary sniping on an observation, go into CapFriendly and look at each of those teams with cap space ranging from limited to modest to lots – check out their RFAs they need to sign themselves plus the odd UFA here and there some may like to keep, do some basic calculation and then see what’s left and how many players of the usual 23 they’ve committed to – and THEN point to ONE you think could take on a Marner or even a Nylander while at the same time relinquishing something the Leafs could actually use.

        Not interested in the ambiguous “they’ve always found a way and will find a way again” which doesn’t fly in a sudden flat cap era with no convenient buy-outs.

      • Would Ottawa entertain moving someone like Brannstrom to Toronto for the 15th and Nylander. Ottawa can always draft Drysdale or Sanderson. Perhaps Toronto won’t see Brannstrom as a solution but. Is there another building team with cap space that may be interested by that 15th pick and Have a D they could possible move. I am not sure myself if Brannstrom will pan out. Oh an yes if you feel the trade is lopsided of coarse add peices to balance it out.

    • @George every team has the cap space to trade for those players if they are trading from a place of strength to fill a weakness. If they want Marner and I can promise you most teams will I’m sure the leafs would start with a high salaried top defenseman and the teams would find a way to make the trade happen. Money can be balanced out between the teams. Just takes a bit of creativity. Don’t forget Marner is still years away from his prime and is an absolutely special player. Example. Arizona who’s in cap he’ll would start with oel and his 8.5 cap hit then toss in a 1 or 2 million winger. Problem solved cap works and both from teams in supposed cap hell. If there’s a player from each team that they want they will make it happen.

      • Roger, your Marner for OEL and a $1 or $2 mil player to even things out may get Marner moved … but when the dust settles both teams still need to clear cap space because, in that regard, nothing has changed. Neither still has enough to re-sign their RFAs/UFAs they wish to keep

  5. I agree DS….the visual symbol of this to me was Maricin on the icing line waving his stick at a rookie Foudy refusing to close the space on the kid….the goal goes in…..the conclusion another weak goal against by Anderson….

    Look at Colombus and Boston….they make goalies look better than they are…look at the Leaf and Oilers…they make goalies look worse than they are….there are other examples of both

    IMO….goalies and D should be judged more as a unit….in the case of the Leafs ….the weak part of that unit is the D

  6. Re Leafs

    “Leafs general manager Kyle Dubas isn’t ruling out shopping that pick if it would help his team. “If there’s another Jake Muzzin, we’d be interested, to put it mildly,” he said.”

    I fully agree that there is a strong prob that pick is moved. A Muzzin type available under contract…. will cost more than that pick

    Re “Dubas also suggested he might not be done dealing. “I don’t think this will be it for us,” he said. “We need to gain greater (cap) flexibility than what we have.”

    Sorry have to say it…. yes Captain obvious… Leafs cannot field 23 man roster and expect to compete w/o another move

    Re Traikos “They could even pursue St. Louis’ Alex Pietrangelo if Dubas moves out another player like Andreas Johnsson, Alexander Kerfoot, or even William Nylander.”

    Pursuing Petro is impossible if they are only moving one of Johnnsson or Kerfoot…. there is just not enough Cap freed up. Dubas would need to move both Johnnsson AND Kerfoot AND likely another player; replace their roster spots with League minimum players; just to have the space to fit in Petro; OR move out one of WW or MM . Petro as a Leaf is a substantial long-shot IMHO

    • If you read that tool on the Ottawa Sun, Don Brennan, this morning Pengy you’ll see he thinks the Leafs can pursue Pietrangelo NOW, citing the $3.2 mil freed up of Kapanen’s cap hit as a first step. What he doesn’t mention is the $2 mil it will take to qualify RFA Rodrigues which leaves them with barely enough left over from Kapanen’s hit to sign one of their lesser RFAs, never mind Dermott and Mikheyev.

      I agree, Pietrangelo is the longest of long-shots bordering on a pipe-dream, and to get anywhere near what it would take to land him Dubas would need to deal either one of his big big cap hits (Matthews, Tavares or Marner) or, if Nylander – whose almost $7 mil STILL wouldn’t be enough – combined with a Johnsson or Kerfoot.

      • George,

        Peitrangelo will likely sign with the Leafs for the league minimum.

        Because evvvvvvvverybody wants to play in Toronto.

      • Hi George

        Brenan either is imbibing or can’t figure out how to use a calculator

        With you…. no chance Petro a Leaf unless multiple players are moved (with no retention and/or very small cap or picks inly coming back) OR one of WW or MM are moved

        …. so lets just call it …..mmmmmmm …. nigh impossible

    • Would you take a risk and swap with Habs for Petry?

  7. Re Pens and Rorabaugh : “ the Penguins’ addition of Kapanen rules out re-signing pending UFA winger Conor Sheary.“…. in the words of John Winger in Stripes…”that’s a fact Jack”

    Bigger; faster; 4 years younger; and better numbers than Sheary ; for only 200 K in Cap difference !

    Re “ Pierre LeBrun suggests Murray could be the next Penguin on the move.”… possibly; but I’d keep both (and it can be done) as the result would be (1) an insignificant trade return (flooded available goalie market) while leaving (2) the precarious scenario of any prolonged injury to TJ resulting in DeSmith as starter and Larmi (no NHL experience ; more ECHL games than AHL; poor stats) as back-up

    Keep both MM & TJ and either trade on at TDL or expose in expansion draft. Trading at TDL gets a bigger return then IMHO

    Next Pens logical move can’t technically happen until BO window opens…. from the public maniacal position GMJR is espousing on the horrific #3 …, this purely logical and completely beneficial move by Pens is unlikely to happen unless Mario fires GMJR; then any new GM would do it in a heartbeat:

    owners already publicly stating cut costs…. BO # 3 and replaced with any of Riikola (I recommend) or Czuzman or P-O J… at least $1.3 M net cash savings ; and at least $1.2 M net Cap savings in EACH of next two years…. team younger; faster; waaaaaaaay better; all remaining Pens players stats improve …. there has never been a more logical move

    • “I think he’s a solid third-pairing defenseman,” Rutherford said. “He kill penalties well for us. He blocks shots. He’s heavy down low. He’s one of the few heavy guys we’ve got. I think that’s he’s a lightning rod here. He gets criticized when it’s not necessarily his fault. Now, I’m not suggesting he’s the perfect player. Not many third pairing defensemen are. But what I’m suggesting is that’s it’s unfair. The criticism of him is a little over the top based on how he’s played when some of the times that he’s being criticized, when it was actually somebody else’s doing.” -jmjr.

    • Hi Chrisms

      It hurts even more reading the second time

      Even if we change everything after

      “ “I think he’s “


      “Misjudged” … that would still be a massive lie

      Jimbo wake up; here is but 3 facts (just 3)

      Every single Pen who has played at least 5 games with JJ ; has tremendously worse stats when he is on the ice vs when he’s on bench

      He has individually cost Pens 3 of the last Playoff/Play in games; and was co-cause on another; and the only game he was ever sat as a Pen was the best playoff game Pens have played over the last two years.

      In 18/19 he individually cost Pens 11 regular season game points (Which would have put them in 2nd in the league [and home ice opening round]instead of minimal points from being out of the playoffs) and 2 shutouts

      There is so very very much more; but those 3 statements will then suffice for the statement

      “JJ is absolutely the worst player in the NHL”

      I stand by my statement

      “JJ is the most detrimental (to teammates, coaches, fans) hockey player In any league, anywhere, anytime.”

      • I will not go so far as you pengy. I’m not jprejjudjous. But. It’s not good. Not good at all.

  8. While I still believe Dubas won the trade (by a small margin), I don’t see how a 15th overall moves the needle on a win now to five years from now team. All I can think is that the 15th pick is on the block for that Dman they need. Otherwise thw Kapanen move was a wasted asset move to help this team now – the cap savings, while nice, is not a game changer. I think Nylander and that pick are moving to a rebuilding team with #1/2 Dman they don’t need for the rebuild.

    • Hi Kevin

      Re “ I think Nylander and that pick are moving to a rebuilding team with #1/2 Dman they don’t need for the rebuild.”

      I’ve been begging for similar for over a year… I had been calling for WW flipped for 22-25 year old 2-3 D(or trending there) at a much lower cap and under contract

      Doesn’t have to be a re-building team but is more of a likliehood

      As a team way down the ranks on GF you’d think a key candidate for flipping D for scoring would be Isles…. would have salivated for WW & Holl for Pullock and Pelech; but alas in Isle country there is a GM who likes to build a boring game roster geared to win 40 games 1-0; 2-1; or 3-2…. scoring irrelevant to him 🤨

      • Hello Pengy,
        I was thinking both Anaheim and Minnesota might be the targets for this type of scenario. Hurricanes don’t necessarily need the pick but might be another target.

      • Hi Kevin

        Not sure Minn would want to move a D that Leafs would want in trade

        Ducks are always budget – wise cash constrained and WW’s SB laden contract may be crappy to them but in reality after Leafs pay his SB this year he is technically only cash AAV ~$5M per for balance of contract so good for them

        Manson would be awesome but 28 and only two years left… Ducks need to pony up more….

        Manson and the big gritty Delauriers for WW…

        Ducks save $2.9 M in Cash next year; and with Delauriers basically taking over another roster spot… Leafs net clear of $2.8 M in Cap


      • Pengy
        That deal looks similar in thought to a trade a couple years back that continues to be scorched . Trading a young scoring forward for a young d man,cost controlled growing in to a top 3 role,top 2 ideally.that winger had 1 60 pt season (80pts), zero 30 goal seasons in his first 5 years in the league , and the last year prior to trade was 26-39-65pts over 82 games .
        Willie has two 60 pt seasons , 1 30 goal season in his first five in league and last year prior to this would be trade he went 31-28-59over 68 games . Would you see Willie and this winger as comparable seeing the numbers over first 5 and last and do you know the trade I’m referencing right away?

      • Hi Craig

        Similar in idea yep

        WW is not Hall agree; and contract make up different (Hall all Sal and was $6M per ; 4 years ago; Sal’s have increased since then, through 19/20 ; and WW’s massive on the SB

        After Leaf’s pay this year’s SB; WW is only owed about $5M per AAV

        Was against the Hall/Laarsson trade then not because of Fwd for D; I just wasn’t keen on Laarsson then

        Oil were somewhat in need of Cap space and were hoping to get D better

        Leafs on the other hand MUST make Cap room; have a flat Cap (Covid) to deal with; and MUST improve D

        Oil didn’t have 1/2 their cap spent on 4 fwds

        Few options (teams ) but it’s something I truly believe Leafs need to explore

        IMHO they have zero chance at a Cup with 1/2 cup on 4 fwds

        JT (full control) and AM , highly highly unlikely to be moved…. so MM (almost $11 M Cap ) and WW($7 M Cap) only options

        The teams viable to take in $7M far outnumber those who can take in $11M

    • It won’t be Chabot, Ken.

  9. The Leafs in “win now” mode? The only core players whose age is a factor is Tavares, at 29, and Muzzin at 31. None of the other core guys are older than 26.

    Speculation is just that but if all this nattering about win now truly is the Leafs’ mind set then good luck. The rumored moves have them dumping solid bottom 6 guys, which would leave them with 2 effective lines. Further, they are more than one more D away from having three solid defensive pairings. Good luck with that in the playoffs.

    Yes, the Leafs have to take some pain to gain cap flexibility but they have a few years to get better before age becomes a factor. If Dubas can truly come up with a balanced line up in one year I will be extremely surprised. Shocked, in fact.

    • LJ, its not age per se, its contract life. The big four start rolling off in 24/25, with a stunted payroll even then It will be tough to keep the band together.

    • “Win Now” refers to a playoff series……

      • LOL. If I had said that Ron Moore would be chirping again. I guess it’s only when I take a dig at them that he gets back on his high-horse.

      • Or play in round….. sadsack Leafs couldnt even do that.


      • You and Kevin are correct. Heck, they went into “win now” mode when they signed Tavares.

    • Right on LJ. Pietrangelo, as part of an overall D that is infinitely better than what the Leafs could ice if he joined them, couldn’t hold off a speedy Canucks bunch. What makes anyone think that that would solve all their D problems?

      And please, anyone reading this, don’t come back with Sandin and Liljegren as being major factors going forward. Right now both are prospects who haven’t shown that they can play consistently well at the NHL level. Period

    • Hi LJ

      The win “now” window is hoping for a cup between ‘21-‘24.. AM will be gone in July of ‘24; possibly traded before to get something of value instead of him walking out at 26 on 1/7/24

      They still have cap issues for next year w/o any further acquisitions and their roster as is; will not get them a Cup IMHO

      They have Reilly; Muzzin; Sandin; Rosen; Marincin and Holl under contract for next year …. that is not going to cut it… keep those only…. that’s not even a playoff bound D IMHO

      Dermott is RFA… and is definitely worth more than Holl

      Leafs need to fill 7 spots with less than $8 M in room

      Let’s say somehow Dubas gets Dermott for $2.5 M

      That leaves $5.4 M for 6 spots… $900 K per…. that’s not a Cup team

      One or more moves still must be made

  10. 2000 Artern Kryukov Buff
    2001 Igor Knyazev Car
    2002 Jesse Niinimaki EDM
    2003 Robert Nillson NYI
    2004 Aleander Radulov Nash
    2005 Ryan O’Marra NYI
    2006 Riku Helenius TB
    2007 Alex Plante EDM
    2008 Erik Karlsson OTT
    2009 Peter Hollard Ana
    2010 Derek Forbort LA
    2011 JT Miller NYR
    2012 Cody Ceci OTT
    2013 Ryan Pulock NYI
    2014 Dylan Larkin Det
    2015 Zack Senyshyn Bos
    2016 Luke Kunin Min

    Above is a list of players Taken with the 15th overall pick.

    A couple of elite, some good and a bunch of who?

    What i was looking for is what type of player is usually taken at the 15th overall pick. If Toronto lands a JT MIller, Alxander Radulov or an Erik Karlsson, then they will do very well for themselves. Dylan Larkin would also be nice, but any of the others then it’s a bust for the player they gave up.

    Also of note it seem the drafting and or player pool is better and deeper as of late.

    • Good list Caper – puts things in their proper perspective. Picks in that range are often more a reflection of the caliber of the various scouting departments. Just go through each of those draft years to see what was taken after the busts as well as what was taken before the few gemsz.

      In 2008, for example, Zach Bogosian went 3rd to Atlanta. Lukje Schenn 5th to Toronto, Nikita (I Don’t Do Rebounds) Filatov – 6th to Columbus, Mikkel Boedker – 8th to Phoenix, Colteen Teubert – 13th to L.A.

      So, was it blind luck or good scouting? The arguments and opinions will go on forever.

    • Thanks Caper

      Excellent research and gives good snapshot

      Don’t forget Pullock… he is very good

      Let’s call it 3/17ths …18% chance of pretty dang good player; maybe 5/17ths ~29% chance of depth /Ok Players… but 53 % chance of getting a player that at best plays 100 total NHL games but of that 53% …. 29 % (5/17) … getting players that never see the NHL ice

      This years draft panned as very good so odds are more in favour… but still an unknown and much more likely to be a depth player 3 years from now than anything else…. move the pick

  11. I wonder if playing young righties like Liligren and Sandin is possible to mentor with guys like Reilly and Muzzin

  12. Im actually quite surprised the Leafs didnt fare much better than they did. The “play in” games were all in August the off season usually.

    July and August are when the Leafs shine best. Sign all the free agents and declared off season champions by all major sports entities like TSN, Sportsnet etc.

    Toronto Maple Leafs….. the NHLs longest running joke.

    Fun fact: when the NHL declares a champion they will need to remove a ring from the Cup to add a new one for engraving. Once the oldest ring on the Cup is replaced there will be a total of zero Leafs with their name engraved on it.

    1967….. too funny.

    • Reality check…reality check…

      Andersen is 0-9 in potential series elimination games.
      ….let that sink in a minute 0-9. No other stats matter.

      Would anyone in their right mind have any confidence following a person with that record into any battle or competition of any kind???

      4 of those 0 fers were with ANA with a D including Fowler, Lindholm Manson , Beauchemin, Montour etc.

      The Leafs outchanced every opposing team in the last 3 years of 4 and Andersen was outgoaltended every series he has played with the Leafs.

      He basically scored the backbreaking 2-0 goal on himself this time.

      Leafs don’t need snarl upfront as the phantom hooking call league has basically outlawed intimidation. I wish it wasn’t that way as my moniker indicates combining the names of the 2 meanest Leafs in history , with apologies to Tiger.

      Yes the Leafs need a couple of quality RHDs to improve their chances but getting a new goalie, unproven even as that is better than a proven loser like Fred, or just trying Campbell is a must or they will go into another series knowing when it counts Andersen will fail as he always has. It is not just likely, the record shows it is as close to a certainty as there is. The team has zero confidence in him in playoffs which is in step with his zero record of success.

      I believe Dubas will move him out at his earliest opportunity.

      • Wendel17, that 0-9 stat is eye popping.
        What do you mean by elimination games? Is it if the team Anderson is on loses they are eliminated or does it include the opportunity to eliminate the other team?

      • Both ways. Last year leafs were up 3-2 losing a game that would have eliminated Boston. Then he lost game 7. So not only does he lose all the most critical games he also can’t win them even when it isn’t do or die.

      • Rask for Andy straight up.

      • Shoreorrwhynotbourque,

        I tried to tranquilize Freddy to stuff him in my trunk for drive to Beantown, but alas the dart missed him …5 hole.

      • Park was there first. I could have added Ray and Chara, but there’s only so much room.

        You probably forgot to factor the wind and gravity into the equation before attempting your shot.

        Someone mentioned earlier that Leaf fans ignore those kind of things

      • I associate Park as a Ranger. BTW though Orr.is.best.player.ever.

  13. In order to speed their rebuild, do you think Ottawa would consider trading picks 3 & 5 with the Leafs for Marner?

    Leafs create $11M to go after defence in the free agent market, while having 3 picks in the top 15 to trader or provide future low cost talent. Ottawa adds a dynamic forward to pair with Tkachuk.

    Who says no?

    • That would be great for Leafs Chris but Dubas is keeping his core 4 intact. MM is the one to move if he changes his mind, which he won’t.

      • I suspect you are right – Dubas wouldn’t do it.
        Do you think Ottawa would?

      • But would Ottawa do it?

      • Chris, I believe if Ottawa didn’t have an owner who can’t afford to properly operate an NHL team they would consider it strongly but with current cheapskate owner no chance.

    • That will never happen. No way in Hell Ottawa takes on a $10 mil F who isn’t going to propel them anywhere near the playoffs. Not when they’re in full re-build mode with two top 5 picks in a deep draft.

      • Logic says you are right. But a crazy, impatient owner might say something else – he wants the team to be relevant now….and might be a bit delusional.

      • That $10 mil would snap Melnyk out of any delusions like a back-handed slap across the chops.

  14. I don’t believe I’ve ever been as “cap”tivated by the offseason as I am this year.

    – Teams up against the cap….I’m so interested to see how you weave your ways outta this pandemic web.
    – F/A’s wanting/expecting/deserving pay increases AND to go to Cup Contenders….how???
    – I can see quite a few big names/big paycheck players changing addresses just so their current team can fill the NUMEROUS holes that need to be plugged (no need to mention team name).
    – Are teams going to change their Shanaplans…er…plans due to 2 years of stagnant salary cap/possibility of no fans (income) in the building?
    – Is it just me, or are the Avs and NYR gonna be bouncing the Stanley Cup between each other for the next few years?
    – OTT, DET and NJD and their cap space are sitting pretty and grinning like Cheshire Cats.

    Just my musings for the day!

  15. Leaf Fans
    Somewhere in the comments someone suggested Nylander for Ducks Manson. Not going to happen, Nylander is soft and Duck have no one to to keep the heat off him. Leafs have AM, MM, JT that teams zero in on so Nylander can have more freedom, with Ducks every team would focus on him as the number one target. Second, Ducks are trying to get rid of large salaries and rebuild.

    Suggest that Leafs look at San Jose, a Burns for Nylander trade could work out. Yep, the Leafs would be trading away 6-7-8 years of hockey life but since they are going for it now, it might be worth the risk. Yearly salary is close but Burns shelf life may bite them in the butt. SJ would love to move a older players contract and start the rebuilding there. Burns is still a big hitter and still can produce on the offensive side.

    • B/B, how those Ducks doing these days? I’m thinking they might want to make some moves. Some good teams in Anaheim are further and further in the rear-view mirror.

      • BC
        They are rebuilding and it will get worse before it gets better. They have done a decent job of clearing away the bad contracts Eaves & Perry.
        Geztlaf’s 8 million one year disappears next year. They have started to collect younger players but it is a long process. They have the #6 pick in the draft and Boston’s #1, and I do expect them to be very active at the draft, with one of their 3 D-men being moved for picks and prospects Manson, Fowler, or Lindholm.
        The next year or two will see a complete change over which of course means losing for awhile, but would rather lose with new young players than old over the hill ones

  16. Win now mode since 1965.
    Leafs should take the pick and select Schneider from Brandon. Team Canada last year and likely next. Develop him for a couple of years and put him in the lineup or move him at that time.

  17. Would it be a win for both DET & TML to pull off

    to DET: Nylander & the 15th overall

    to TML: Perlini and 3 2nd rd picks 2020

    DET has cap space. Needs youth upfront who can score besides Larkin, Bertuzzi, Mantha & Fabbri. Those 3 2nd rd picks may not pan out at all. Nylander is reasonable and locked in for years.

    TML gets cap relief and picks to package away or rebuild with.

    • For the right to give away Nylander, the Leafs also get to give away a first round pick?

      Not everyone may love Nylander, but he is a young 30 goal scorer on a fair salary. TML wouldn’t do that trade even if they didn’t have to give away the first round pick.

  18. Leafs will not trade Nylander and they wouldn’t even trade the 15th for 3 2nd rounders by themselves unless they were 32,33, and 34th picks

  19. Would you guys take Fleury at 3.5 mil for next two seasons – Pitts picks up the other half and Leafs give up 2nd and prospect low?

    Clears 1.5 Million if you can move Andersen.

    • Leafs can probably dump him easier and have more selection of younger goalie but in absence of that , absolutely. Anderson must go one way or another.

  20. As I understand it the Leafs do not have to qualify Rodrigues at all..but if they do, its 2 million. I don’t think anyone in the league would qualify him for that after last year. But if they do not qualify him he becomes a free agent. That’s where the Leafs could sign him for a lesser amount on a “show us what you can do deal”, unless they package him in another trade.. I am not a fan of paying Dermott anything over a million. On this team he is a stopgap on the left side for Sandin, who I would rather see play, especially with someone who would be a solid partner on the right side for a year or two like Anton Stralman (some salary retained). With Reilly I would love to see Ristolainen. Need Kerfoot and Johnnson to go as part of trade or for picks to make it work. Joe Thornton to centre Nick Robertson and Barabanov. Engvall to centre Spezza and Clifford ( or some other nasty piece of business). Its a start.

    • If he wants to play in the pros he’ll sign for 1mil or less.