NHL Rumor Mill – August 7, 2023
The Canadiens reacquired Jeff Petry from the Penguins but he might not be with them for long. Check out the latest in today’s NHL Rumor Mill.
MONTREAL GAZETTE: Stu Cowan noted the return of Jeff Petry to the Canadiens from the Pittsburgh Penguins in yesterday’s three-team trade that saw the San Jose Sharks ship Erik Karlsson to the Penguins. The Habs received Petry with a lower average annual value of $4.687 million through 2024-25 as the Penguins retained over $1.56 million of his $6.25 million AAV.
Montreal Canadiens defenseman Jeff Petry in 2021-22 (NHL Images).
The Canadiens traded Petry to the Penguins last summer, along with center Ryan Poehling, for defenseman Mike Matheson and a 2023 fourth-round pick. He had requested a trade during the 2021-22 season for family reasons after his wife, Julie, was upset over the COVID restrictions in Quebec and moved the family back to Michigan.
Cowan wonders how long Petry will be with the Canadiens. He believes general manager Kent Hughes will most likely be looking to trade him again. However, if the 35-year-old blueliner isn’t traded he’ll provide the Habs young blueline with a veteran right-shot presence.
SPORTSNET’s Eric Engels believes the Canadiens will trade Petry. “Not necessarily immediately, but likely before the season starts.” He noted that the Penguins have already paid Petry’s $3 million signing bonus for this season and the Canadiens can retain 50 percent of their share of his AAV ($2.34 million).
MONTREAL HOCKEY NOW: Marc Dumont also speculated the Canadiens could attempt to move Petry either before the season starts or at some point before the regular season trade deadline.
Dumont noted Petry still put up 31 points in 61 games with the Penguins last season despite his age and the decline in his performance. He thinks there would be some teams looking to add a top-four defenseman like Petry at a discounted price.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: There was some buzz on social media suggesting Hughes could flip Petry to another club in a matter of hours. That move hasn’t materialized yet but it’s possible the Canadiens GM ships out the veteran defenseman for a return that helps with their current rebuild. Retaining up to half of their share of his AAV would make Petry an affordable short-term option for contenders seeking an experienced right-side rearguard.
TVA SPORTS: Mylene Richard noted the Canadiens’ acquisition of Casey DeSmith from the Penguins leaves them with four goaltenders under one-way NHL contracts for 2023-24. The others included Samuel Montembeault, Jake Allen and Cayden Primeau.
Richard suggested DeSmith could be insurance for the Canadiens if Primeau fails to earn a spot on their roster and ends up on waivers before the start of the season.
TVA Sports analyst Patrick Lalime speculates the Canadiens could attempt to shop one of those goalies, suggesting it could be Allen or DeSmith who end up on the trade block.
SPORTSNET’s Eric Engels suggested it could be Allen who gets moved if Primeau should unseat him in training camp. He also speculated the Canadiens could start the season with three goalies.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Hughes could also move DeSmith if Montembeault, Allen and Primeau outperform him during training camp. One of these four probably won’t be with the Canadiens when the regular season begins in October.
No need to rush to trade Petry for pennies on the dollar right now. The young RDs- Mailloux and Reinbacher – need time to develop. Petry is still a useful defender and going with him, Savard and Barron on the right side would work. I’d ask for a 1st or a solid prospect who should soon be NHL ready. Otherwise, wait a bit. But it’s likely that he or Savard will be gone by next summer to make room for the young guys.
It’s possible the Habs try to trade Allen but I don’t see them getting much now. Well see how training camp goes but there’s a strong chance Desmith winds up in the AHL where most of his contract won’t count against the cap.
Hi Howard
Allen and Monty far far better than DeSmith. Not sure what return you can get for DeSmith
Re Petry… move him at TDL…. Retain another 37.5% (max now that can still be retained)…. To a contender….for a 2nd (or equivalent value in prospect(s) ).
Agreed. Habs won’t get anything for Desmith. He may stick as backup if Allen is traded. But I also can’t see the Habs getting fair value for Allen. Likely Desmith clears waivers and goes to AHL.
Your math is off, Pengy. Habs can retain half of Petry’s current cap hit.
Johnny, remember that the Pens are retaining 25% of Petrys hit. That leaves 75% for the Habs. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the Habs can only retain 50% of their portion. Which is 37.5% of the total. That’s how Pengy gets his number.
Hi JZ
Per CBA ….Habs can only retain 1/2 (50%) of what they (Habs) have on their books (which is 75%)
So the most they can retain is 50% of 75%….37.5 %
Hi JZ
Per CBA ….Habs can only retain 1/2 (50%) of what they (Habs) have on their books (which is 75%)
So the most they can retain is 50% of 75%….37.5 %
I don’t see the Habs moving Savard, Howard. He is one of three French speaking Quebecoise on the Habs and Harvey-Pinard is not guaranteed a roster spot. You know the issue.
That and Savard is good at his role, a shot blocking shut down d.
Petry AND Julie (wife) loved it in Montreal until the year of covid crackdown and she went home with the kids.
He had a poor season yet still had second most points on the Pens D last year playing 20 min a game.
He has had great years in Montreal, somehow getting better with age, I wouldn’t write him off and in fact he can mentor the young guys who really aren’t quite ready.
DeSmith is hot and cold, not able to be a starter but worth looking at as a backup since Cayden Primeau won’t stick with the team and its doubtful any team would take him on waivers.
Either Allen or DeSmith could be available for some assets.
Hi HF30
Hard to see any assets received for DeSmith…. If he’s put on waivers… hard to see him picked up
Allen with retention…. Yes will get a return
@Pengy….wow your thoughts on the Erik Karlsson trade?
I thought all three teams did well and accomplished what they needed.
Top 4 defensive pairi gs however you pair them solid..
Bas news chad rudwhedel is your third oair right side defy..uuggnnn
I think there is one more move coming whatever that move maybe.
.In
Riley Smith
Erik Karlsson
Adam Graves
Lars Eller
Noel Accari
Matt Nieto
These adds make us so much better…
Out
Brian dumoulin
Jan Rutta
Jeff Petry
Josh Archibald
Ryan poehling
Casey desmith
Drake cakilla
Penguins if they stay healthy jake already out and the play well the can challenge for seco d in the division
Agree BnG as a whole
I did like Poehling and what he brought to the Pens
Poehling …24, faster, bigger, stronger, better defensively….$1.4 M…. 82 G pace 11-11-22
Accairi 7 1/2 years older; 4” shorter; 5 lbs lighter …. smaller, weaker, slower….And costing $2 M vs $1.4 M (Poehling) for very similar 82 G pace numbers 15-10-25
Dooby should have re-upped Poehling and not signed Accairi
Don’t get me started on the acquisitions of the mini lads….
Johnston …..the “giant”of the trio…coming up 29) … 5’10” , 192
Nieto …..Coming up 31, 5’10” , 185
Hineztrozza ….29…5’9”, 173
Eller at 6’2” and 205 has size; but is 34 and full year last year (actually 84 GP) of 10-13-23; and not quite good enough for 3C and no way can fill in at 2C if either Sid or Gino get hurt…. So $2.5 M (2years)….. too much
Fingers crossed on Toews; space freed up by Accairi (some team will take him for future considerations)
I think a pro athlete could be playing for war torn Ukraine and still say “I absolutely love it here! “
It is preprogrammed on draft day.
I don’t believe Lyle has ever restricted topics on any given day to those his articles address.
Go police your own site and allow the rest of us the freedom to have starting topic of conversation travel to where ever it may lead.
Dang it I just policed the site…..now to answer the Harmonic question…..heaven forbid!!!
Huh?
Don’t think to hard about it. My reply isn’t where it should be.
What’s next for Pens
PHN yesterday put the situation in the same perspective/viewpoint I keep saying…. Another RD MUST be acquired as Sully so wrongfully favours Ruhweedel over Friedman….PHN says Dubas must make another move …. Because….
“The Penguins’ safety nets are gone. Ruhwedel projects into the daily lineup again. If Karlsson or Letang succumb to injury, Ruhwedel becomes a top-four defenseman”
Oh the Horror
That statement alone should have all Pens fans cringing
Gains by having 22 minutes per game of EK (instead of Petry) could very well be lost by having 10-12 minutes per game of Ruhweedel
This is easy for Dubas to overcome….
Available RD UFAs that are massively better than Ruhweedel and will come in at $1M or less… Bear and Foote
George and Other Sens fans…. What would Dorian want for Hamonic?
IP…. What does Army want for Bartuzzo ?
What does Bill Armstrong want for Stetcher?
What does Adams want for 50% retained on Lyubushkin??
Dubas can also force the issue and send Ruhweedel to WBS and bring up Friedman. That call is the GM’s, NOT the coach’s
Pens still need a 3C….. I’m hoping Toews isn’t retiring and will sign with Pens
Another UFA option for 3C is Pius Suter
Trade for 3C….Ducks…. Henrique
Gedderdone
Pengy. Subject is what’s next for HABS!
He really can not help himself.😂
Hi Slick
You’re correct that the main post is re Habs…. But the trade and Pens in the trade are brought up in the post
I felt that was fair to comment on
Certainly didn’t wish to shun or upset any Habs fans
Humble Apologies if I did
Does Pittsburgh not have a cap like the rest of the league?
We finally agree CO on your assertion that Pens are still not cap compliant
Dooby must be Cap compliant upon Guentzel’s return
Right now; barring a move…. His return would have Pens at only 22 on Roster and $80 K OVER ; let alone Any space for non LTIR injuries replaced by call ups
….. and no 3C; and 9 4th liners
According to CapFriendly Penguins now are over the cap by slightly under 80,000
80k with 21 under contract. Not sure how they even get 22-23 never mind improve the roster.
Pengy. Sj wasn’t willing to retain more for ek. Change your tune on granlund?
Hi Chrisms
You are wrong there…. Grier actually publicly stated several times he was willing to retain 20% (total of $7.6 M) and media had been consistent in their coverage that his public confirmation of 20% meant he was actually willing to accept 30% ($11.4 M)
Their were also reports (TSN, SN , THW) that he was willing to accept 39% (that’s $4.5 M in Cap and a total cash retention of $18.82 M; but wanted….
1st (with only top 5 protected)
2nd (that could become a first…. If Pens made SCF in EITHER ‘24 or ‘25 AND EK played 50% of playoff games)
and Poulin
No Granlund , no Rutta, no Hoffman, no giving up a 3rd in the deal
He ended up retaining only 13% …. $4.95 M…. But has to pay Granlund $11 M for a performance value of (at max) $1.5 M per…. $8 M wasted (at least)
$8 M plus $4.95 M…. $12.95 M thrown away
That’s not even counting on Rutta and Hoffman overpayments
No Granlund in deal (That meaning Dooby would have done the right thing and bought out Granlund)….. he (Grier) retains 25% (min) instead of 13% , and instead of giving Pens a 3rd; gives a 2nd to Habs [that they ended up getting from from Pens]
With the above… EK comes to Pens at $8.6 M cap (max) ….. saving $1.4 M in cap (from current); but has $800 K on books for Granlund….
A $600 K Cap swing (from current position) in favour of Pens this year ; AND ….. Pens have their second back
Don’t get me wrong…., I like the EK acquisition very much….I just abhor when s GM puts ego before team and costs them (in this case a minimum if $600 K in valuable Cap swing AND a 2nd)
Pens top 4 leaps and bounds better than last year:
EK replacing Petry; Graves replacing Dumo
Pens still vulnerable in bottom pairing unless Dooby sends Ruhweedel to WBS or acquires Bear or Foote or trades for a 3RD upgrade; as Sully completely discriminates against Freidman
Pens still have a gaping hole (for at least 6 weeks ) in top 6
AND still have 9 4th liners; no 3rd line
And must be cap compliant when Guentz returns….
Donby can’t stand pat…. He must make a move
“of $18.82 M; but wanted….”
sb
“of $14.82 M; but wanted….”
Fat, single finger typing; iPhone; bad eyes
I never say a direct quote from Grier he would hold 20. It was reported by various writers but we all know how accurate that is much of the time. What is a direct quote is Grier saying he didn’t want to hold more. Straight from the horses mouth. Your scenario was never an option.
Hi Chrisms
Grier actually did say he was “willing to retain up to 20%”
The rest, yes , is perhaps speculative by reporters…. But with so many in media reporting “inside sources” listing the Grier offer to Dooby (….1st, 2nd [that could become a first]; Poulin …. For EK @39% [$4.5 M in Cap] retained)…. Then it must have been close
We won’t know for sure…. Other than for sure he would have retained 20% (not 10)…. And proved to actually do so in the $4.95;M actually retained, plus the $8 M wasted on Granlund alone ….. that’s $12.95 M…. Which is 34% of what EK had remaining…. AND he took on more overpayment/wastage in Hoffman and Rutta AND gave up a 3rd
He ended up saving just over $33 M on previous commitment to EK; but actually took on $11 M (Granlund); plus $5 M (Hoffman); and $5 M (Rutta)…. Total $21 M extra in commitments…..So effectively he only saved $12 M in commitments
Even if at best Granlund/Hoffman/Rutta’s services were worth say $12 M in value (and that’s a grossly liberal valuation)….. that’s a $9 M overpayment…. Again at a minimum …. Total ~ $15 M ($4.95 M and$9 M)…. That’s effective retention equivalent to 39% of EK’s($14.95/$38 M)…. And he gave up a 3rd in the process
No logic would ever fathom that he (Grier) wouldn’t have retained at least 15% more on EK had Granlund not been forced upon him
Dooby for sure should have bought Granlund out
What is done is done
Dooby still must make a move (and that is outside of the horrendous no 3C, no 3rd line player; and Ruhweedel [because of Sully] likely to play 3RD situation)… because he has (at this point in time) not enough Cap space for Guentzel to return off LTIR
We can hope all we want for a Hossa “itch” to befall Carter and have him on LTIR…… but that just isn’t going to happen
I’d absolutely love for Toews to be healthy and sign with Pens at league min plus commensurate PBs
He for sure would be Pens best 3C, is fantastic on dots; even with lowly Chi last year and battling health issues was on 82 G pace of 24-26-50
Moving Accairi for future considerations creates the space
Ideally …
Toews centering Eller and Comtois (UFA) or N Ritchie (UFA) …. Either one at max $900 K
They won’t sit Carter….
So Carter would centre 4th line with two of Nylander, Poulin, Pitlick or OConnor as his wingers
Can you tell me where he said that? I don’t recall any direct quotes from Grier outlining any amount he would hold.
I ask pengy cause I followed the situation fairly closely. Lots of writers speculated 20 percent. But the only thing I’ve been able to find from Grier is that he would t hold 50 percent. I never saw anything from him about what he was willing to do.
Hi Chrisms
I didn’t READ that Grier said that…. I watched/heard him say that when he was interviewed…
The clips were played both on TSN and SN…. And showed him being interviewed on two separate occasions…. Both times with 20% statement
The 30% and higher is speculation by media…. But with absolute sound logic. No ifs ands or buts…. He would have retained at least 30% had he not had to eat those 3 rough contracts
No GM actually states publicly their bottom line…. Saying 20% meant more …. And his actions proved very true
The amount he effectively retained (actual on EK plus the massive overpayments on the 3 new additions)…. Is at least in the 35% plus range ;of the $38 M EK was owed… so his actions proved 35 % retention on just EK (no Granlund; no Hoffman; No Rutta) he was definitely willing to go for… absolutely!!!
I’m very glad that Dooby was able to maneuver all those pieces out
My bugaboo is that his stubbornness/Ego cost at a minimum $1.5 M less in EK retention; AND a 2nd
What is done is done
He still must do moves
No his actions proved he wasn’t going to take on any more. It’s pretty clear he wanted grandlund as part of the deal. Otherwise dubas would have bought grandlund out. It’s why the deal happened during the buy out period not before or after. Grier said I’m not holding more salary even if you don’t send grandlund. If the pens went your route karlson isn’t a penguin.
Sorry Chrisms
If Dooby had bought out Granlund…. They would have got EK and for cheaper
And it was not Grier asking for Granlund…. It was Dooby insisting on it…. Costing Pens more
Grier never wanted Granlund… I’m sure he still doesn’t
I have good circumstantial evidence in my corner pengy. You do not. I dare say your ego is getting in the way of acknowledging it.
Pengy, just stop. Buying out granlund was a dumb and short sighted idea. Give it up. Dubas made the right call.
I think Harmonic could be available. Though Ottawa is limited with right hand shooters. They actually only have 4 actual right wingers. Joseph being one of them. Though does Tarasenko shoot right even though he is a LW?
The only two Right shots on D are Harmonic or Zub. But waiting for a spot are Bernard-Docker and Heatheringron. Heatherington is a big guy who I felt did pretty well last year and I can see him stepping into Harmonic spots. Yet will Dorion feel comfortable losing Harmonic’s experience.
Moving Harmonic won’t help them sign Pinto he only makes 1.1 mil a year and signed for two. This makes me think Dorion won’t move him unless someone over pays or perhaps takes Jospeh with him in a package.
Time will tell but signing a guy and trading him
In the same summer period seems like something that isn’t normally done.
Thanks Jeff
Point taken re Dorian and space needed to re-up Pinto… Hamonic move not enough
Agree tough (at least perception wise) to signing and then trading the same player weeks later
Dorion (like Dooby) must make a move
Hi Pengy
Penguins D-man pairings
1. Letang/Graves
2. Karlsson/Peterson
3. POJ ? Ty Smith ? Rudwedel ? other ?
not necessarily Rudwedel plays Top 4 due to injury.
Hi SK
Per PHN that’s exactly what would happen if either EK or Tanger gets hurt unless Dooby acquires another RHD…. All due to Sully’s deep bias to Ruhweedel (grossly discriminating against Friedman) …. So Sully would play Ruhweedel nightly at 3D, then move him up if there is a Tanger or EK injury
Obviously right now the best option is
Tanger/Pettersson
EK/ Graves
Friedman/P-O J
With Smyth as 7th D… any injuries…. He slots into bottom pairing, others move up
With Sully’s blatant discrimination against Friedman (in favour of the far inferior Ruhweedel)….it’s
Tanger/Pettersson
EK/ Graves
Ruhweedel/P-O J
With Smyth as 7th D
This is all in Dooby’s control as he can send down Ruhweedel OR sign one of Bear or Foote (no way Sully plays Ruhweedel if Bear or Foote are available)
Letang and Peterson don’t mesh well together. Signing Graves was Dumoulin replacement.
1. Letang/Graves
2. Karlsson/Peterson
Season hasn’t even started yet, LOL. Penguins can make additional moves.
Hi SK
You may be right re Tanger/Graves as the Sully choice with the two Swedes together
But Actually Tanger/Pettersson did work well most times last year…. Small sample size but they looked to be working well together
The Dumo and Rutta exit will be a huge positive impact on number of shots and quality shots allowed
The third massively negative impacter (to Pens goalies)…. Ruhweedel…. Is still on team
Lars Eller is a strong 3rd line center..for that matter Noal Accari can do it as well both gritty, strong two way players can pop 15 goals each..
Hi BnG
Here we strongly disagree
Both can fill in at 4C; but both are in no way strong 3Cs
If Either Sid or Gino get injured…. No one on team to fill in:
Eller is the best of the remaining C possibilities…. Fair to poor 3C…. He just can’t fill in in top 6 as a C
Accairi…. No ifs, ands, or buts…. For him in top6
Carter….ummmm…. Cite last year….. ouch!
Healthy Toews 👍👍👍👍
Even perhaps Pius Suter better option than current 3
Trade for Henrique (who could fill in for Guentz until he returns then drops to 3C)?
Something must be done…. No space and 9 4th liners and no true 3rd liners…. Not good
@ Pengy…. i agree i did like Poehling younger, speed, and skilled..
But you talked about age and you want to sign Jonathan Toews ??
Lars Eller is a better player at this point in time
.
There is one more move coming not sure what it is..what right side dmen are left?
Although i believe a combi of Poj and either Ty Smith or will butcher can be a solid pair for 11 minutes a game..lol
Hi BnG
Eller only better than Toews as Toews yet to announce if he is playing this year
Toews only one year older…. Had superior 82 G pace last year on an Uber weak team
Toews top 3 in face offs
Healthy Toews…, leaps and bounds better than Eller; AND healthy Toews CAN jump up to play 2C if Sid or Gino get injured…. Not Eller
Toews better hands…. And of course…. 3 cup pedigree speaks for itself
Accairi moved; Toews in (league min Sal and commensurate PBs)…. The right move
Bear out till December, wants to resign with Canucks. Hamonic left Long Island cause he wanted to be closer to family, can see him not reporting if traded too far from home.
Am just glad the Karlsson deal is done. Now we will see if he a plus player or not. We will also see if Letang and Karlsson can actually play together. I am pretty sure Sid can play with anyone.
Now onto Calgary. I think they need to move Hanifin . Sooner rather than later. Work on the others. Offer to make Backlund captain .
WW for Hanafin still a possibility
dont speak of such a logical trade for two teams
the wild card is if Hanifin plans to be an UFA either way
Hi ds
You are on to something…. But the way WW is going and his proven track record of holding out…. And with Leafs (along with Sens and Habs) with the highest tax rates…. I’m thinking that WW is certainly moving towards wanting to be UFA next summer
Tax rates are a minor issue. Have read multiple discussions over the past several months. There was also an article in Forbes a few years back detailing the accounting issues. From these sources, I learned the following. The information may or may not be completely accurate.
1. All players pay tax in the jurisdictions of the road games. However, I don’t know how the percentages are calculated. Could be based on games played, could also depend on overnight stays. At any rate, this evens out the playing field somewhat.
2. Tax on signing bonuses is paid to the jurisdiction where the player resides on the payment date. AM stays at his residence in Arizona during the off season. In July, the Leafs paid AM a $7.2 M bonus. Federal and state / provincial taxes would supposedly be owed to Arizona and the U.S. No tax receipts for Ontario / Canada.
More on taxes.
Marie-France Dompierre of Davies Ward Phillips & Vineberg discusses how Canada taxes professional athletes who aren’t Canadian residents. For more, read Dompierre’s article, “An ‘Expensive’ Trade? Taxation of Nonresident Professional Athletes Playing in Canada,” in Tax Notes.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxnotes/2022/06/22/how-canada-taxes-pro-athletes/?sh=64abec0b4157
Suffice to say, it’s complex / complicated.
Julie:
“But with my Blue Jays example, usually the allocation will be 60/40. A Blue Jay player will earn 60 percent of his income in the States, and then 40 percent in Canada. And that really kind of has that kind of component where, there’s going to be a lot of debate about that allocation.”
Does Toronto Calgary do some deal around nander and Hanifan ?
As a penguin fan Personally while Karlsson is going to make the Penguins better..i would rather have had Hanifan…
Dubas has one more move coming not sure what that is…maybe he goes to Carter and asks him is there a place he would afree to go for this year..
Get draft pick and clear
$ 3.15 million
Dubas isnt done..
Hi BnG…. If by some miracle Dooby could convince Carter to waive…. Pens would not GET a draft pick…. They’d GIVE a draft pick…. and the ask is likely a 2nd
Very likely stuck with Carter
Is there any surgery he would like to get???….. LTIR….. then just stay there and retire!
An illegal and sneaky move….which won’t happen… but for ships ‘n giggles..
Have Pen’s owners pay his Sal into a Swiss bank account…. IF he agrees to be traded and immediately after trade retire … so nothing actually paid to Carter by other team ( of course the other team would have to be privy to this shenanigans and would want picks/prospects just for eating the Cap hit )…. We can dream though
We’re stuck with Carter 😢
Carter just fell off the table…
He glides to much he doesnt move his feet which he needs to do.
He has a cannon for a shot put him on the off wing on tge power play ala ovi them.him blast away…we have too many pass first players..lol
With all the crazy Pitt speculation, about “What is next” I sure hope they make a deal with St. Louis……Army sure does love him some Kyle Dubas trades!
Hi Brian
What’s your ask on Bartuzzo ?
If carter agrees to wave which he wont how much money do the Penguins save?
Mac comtois
Or tomas tatar
One of these two to fill out the roster..
Brian..st. louis has nofhing the Penguins need.
Hearing Trevor Zegras to Bruins rumors … anyone else hear them ?
HuGo calls Dubas regarding Carter, what’s the offer….
Carter has a full NMC and isn’t waiving to go to a rebuilding team.