NHL Rumor Mill – September 10, 2020

NHL Rumor Mill – September 10, 2020

Golden Knights reportedly talking contract with Robin Lehner, plus the latest on the Bruins and Penguins in today’s NHL rumor mill.

REPORT: GOLDEN KNIGHTS HOLD CONTRACT TALKS WITH LEHNER

THE ATHLETIC (subscription required): Jesse Granger believes the Vegas Golden Knights intend to sign goaltender Robin Lehner to a long-term contract extension. He cites sources suggesting discussions between management and the Lehner camp might have already begun. Lehner, 29, is due to become an unrestricted free agent on Oct. 9.

With the salary cap remaining at $81.5 million next season, the Golden Knights only have $6.375 million in cap space. $3-$4 million of that could be taken up re-signing restricted free agents Chandler Stephenson and Nick Cousins. Granger estimates it could take a five-year deal at $5 million annually, possibly more, to keep Lehner in the fold.

Re-signing Lehner could mean parting ways with Marc-Andre Fleury, who has two years and $14 million remaining on his contract. Granger feels Fleury’s relationship with management has soured since Lehner’s acquisition at the February trade deadline. They could retain part of his cap hit to trade him, though he carries a 10-team no-trade list. They could also buy out the remainder of Fleury’s contract.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: It’ll be interesting to see what transpires, but I don’t think anyone would be surprised if Lehner is re-signed and Fleury traded or bought out. That’s been percolating in the rumor mill for some time, especially when Lehner got the bulk of the starts in the playoffs. It went to a full boil last month after Fleury’s agent tweeted an image of his client with a sword through his back and coach Peter DeBoer’s name on the blade.

Lehner or Fleury could draw the attention of the Colorado Avalanche. The Denver Post’s Mike Chambers suggested the Avs could pursue either goalie if they become available.

LATEST ON THE BRUINS

NBC SPORTS BOSTON: Joe Haggerty reports Bruins general manager Don Sweeney intends to explore ways to improve his club between now and the start of the free-agent market on Oct. 9.

The toughest decision could be deciding whether to re-sign Torey Krug. Haggerty believes the Bruins would love to keep the 29-year-old pending UFA defenseman, but he doesn’t feel they’re in a good enough salary-cap place to do so.

Haggerty speculates Sweeney could look to within to bolster his lineup by promoting Trent Frederic and Jack Studnicka into full-time roles next season. Making room for those two could mean moving out a winger like Jake DeBrusk. He’s a restricted free agent due for a significant raise but also an inconsistent scorer who managed just two points in 10 playoff games last month.

Haggerty wondered if Sweeney might consider shopping David Krejci. The 34-year-old center has one year left on his contract with an annual average value of $7.25 million who can be dealt to half the teams in the league based on the no-trade language in his contract.

Sweeney also said the Bruins have no reservations about goaltender Tuukka Rask after he opted out of the playoffs for family reasons. Rask and backup Jaroslav Halak both have a year left on their contracts and it appears the Bruins plan on continuing next season with their current goalie tandem. Sweeney pointed out Rask is up for the Vezina Trophy this year.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: If Krug seeks over $7 million annually, he’s probably played his final game with the Bruins. He’s indicated he’s not taking a hometown discount or a one-year deal. Boston Hockey Now’s Jimmy Murphy reports Sweeney said the two sides “haven’t found a landing spot yet.”

The Athletic’s Fluto Shinzawa (subscription required) also suggested DeBrusk could be a trade chip. However, he felt defenseman Brandon Carlo was more likely to move because he didn’t play up to his capabilities in the playoffs. However, if Krug departs I doubt they’ll trade away Carlo.

As for Krejci, his age, cap hit and modified no-trade make him difficult to move under the current economic conditions. He could be traded, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s still suiting up with the Bruins next season.

UPDATE ON THE PENGUINS

THE ATHLETIC (subscription required): Josh Yohe reports sources around the league have spoken with Pittsburgh Penguins GM Jim Rutherford regarding defenseman Kris Letang. However, this isn’t uncommon and there’s no indication Letang is being actively shopped.

Yohe also reports all indications suggest the Pittsburgh Penguins will trade goaltender Matt Murray. Rutherford had little interest in moving goalie Tristan Jarry. The Penguins GM is willing to move center Jared McCann and perhaps Nick Bjugstad, though Rutherford isn’t opposed to keeping him. He also doesn’t sound interested in moving defenseman Jack Johnson.

TSN: Darren Dreger isn’t sure the speculation about Letang is legit, pointing out his agent said his client doesn’t expect to be moved. Dreger acknowledged the 33-year-old defenseman might still be traded, but it’s not his expectation. Other Penguins who could hit the trade block include Johnson, Patric Hornqvist, and Zach Aston-Reese.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: There was speculation yesterday claiming Letang was expecting a trade, but now his agent says otherwise. Damage control, perhaps? Or merely some confusion emerging from multiple sources on Letang’s status. Whatever it is, it seems likely Rutherford was talking to other clubs about the veteran blueliner but doesn’t appear close to considering a trade.

No one’s surprised Murray is the most likely of their two goalies to move. He’ll be more expensive for the Penguins to re-sign plus he’s also struggled with injuries and consistency over the past two years.

Hornqvist has a $5.3-million AAV through 2022-23 but his full no-trade clause becomes an eight-team no-trade list at the end of this season. He’s 33 and his style of play frequently leaves him banged-up but his experience and gritty style around the net could be enticing to other clubs.

McCann could also draw some interest. Bjugstad’s been hampered by injuries the past two years, appearing in 64 games last season and just 13 this season. That will put a damper on his trade value.










NHL Rumor Mill – September 8, 2020

NHL Rumor Mill – September 8, 2020

Are the Oilers shopping for a goalie? Will the Blue Jackets get into the market for a center? How could the Blackhawks shed salary? Check out the latest in today’s NHL rumor mill.

OILERS SEEKING A GOALTENDER?

EDMONTON JOURNAL: Jim Matheson reports the Oilers seek a goaltender to share the duties with Mikko Koskinen. While they’ve kicked the tires on Pittsburgh’s Matt Murray, the Oilers would prefer adding a younger version of Mike Smith for around $2.5 million who can play 35-40 games with Koskinen.

Matheson points out the Oilers only have around $9 million in cap space. He also notes it’s a buyer’s market for unrestricted free agent goalies with such notables as Braden Holtby, Jacob Markstrom, Cam Talbot, Anton Khudobin and Thomas Greiss potentially available. Trade options could include Murray, Arizona’s Darcy Kuemper, or maybe Columbus’ Joonas Korpisalo.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Bolstering the goaltending should be the Oilers’ priority. Koskinen cannot be relied upon to carry the bulk of the starts and Smith is clearly past his prime and must be replaced.

Kuemper would be the best trade option if available, carrying a reasonable $4.5 million annual average value over the next two seasons. Korpisalo would be even more affordable ($2.8 million AAV for two years) but has a limited body of work as a starter.

The Penguins are trying to cut costs by shopping Murray. The asking price won’t be expensive but his new contract will be, perhaps over $6 million annually. Factor in his injury history and inconsistent play over the last two years, and the Oilers would be wise to look elsewhere.

Perhaps the Oilers will move one of their defensemen to free up cap space for other moves. Matheson’s colleague David Staples suggested shopping veteran defenseman Kris Russell to free up some cap space. He’s got a year left on his contract with a $4 million AAV and a 15-team no-trade list for 2020-21, but his actual salary will be $1.5 million once the Oilers pay his $1 million signing bonus for next season.

WILL THE BLUE JACKETS SHOP FOR A CENTER?

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH: Brian Hedger reports the 2020 playoffs showed the Blue Jackets need an upgrade at center, specifically on the second line. He indicates there’s a “glaring void” between first-line center Pierre-Luc Dubois and third-liner Boone Jenner.

Hedger lists free agency, the trade market and developing from within as the ways general manager Jarmo Kekalainen can address this issue.

The free-agent market is bleak, with Nashville’s Mikael Granlund topping the list with 30 points this season. Kekalainen will explore the trade market as they can draw upon their blueline depth, young forwards, and a pair of goalies in their mid-20s who performed well this season for trade bait. Hedger suggested the Edmonton Oilers’ Ryan Nugent-Hopkins as a trade target, though he’s slated to become an unrestricted free agent next year.

Options from within could include Alexander Wennberg or Alexandre Texier.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: The UFA market is very thin for center. Granlund, Carl Soderberg, Tyler Ennis, Joe Thornton, Jason Spezza, Mikko Koivu and Erik Haula are the best of the bunch. Thornton, Spezza, Koivu and Soderberg are past their prime, Granlund and Ennis are used more as wingers while Haula’s been hampered by injuries in recent years.They could try Wennberg and Texier, but I don’t think that’s going to work. Wennberg is inconsistent while Texier is used mostly on the wing.

The trade market is their best option to address that need, but I don’t think the Oilers intend to part with Nugent-Hopkins. He’s a key versatile part of their forward lines, able to play second-line center or skate at left wing on Connor McDavid’s line.

HOW WILL THE BLACKHAWKS CUT SALARY?

NBC SPORTS CHICAGO: Charlie Roumeliotis recently examined how the Blackhawks can free up salary-cap space to re-sign restricted free agents Dominik Kubalik, Dylan Strome and Drake Caggiula and unrestricted free agent goalie Corey Crawford.

The Blackhawks can free up $5.56 million if they buy out Olli Maatta and Zack Smith. A more ideal solution would be moving one or both via trade, but that would involve packaging them with sweeteners.

Trading Brandon Saad would shed $6 million. The 27-year-old left winger is slated to become a UFA next summer. However, Roumeliotis argues that move would subtract a top-six forward merely to shed salary. Given the current economic climate, he doubts a rival club would take on that full cap hit.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Buying out Maatta and Smith could also leave the Blackhawks with over $1.7 million in dead cap space for the next two seasons, followed by two more seasons of $680K annually. Nevertheless, that could become their best option to re-sign their key players.

I doubt Smith will have any more trade value. Maatta’s performance in this year’s playoffs might make him enticing for clubs seeking a puck-moving defenseman.










NHL Trade Market Returning to Life

NHL Trade Market Returning to Life










NHL Rumor Mill – September 4, 2020

NHL Rumor Mill – September 4, 2020

NHL Rumor Mill – September 4, 2020

A Big Offseason Goalie Market

NOTE: We continue to experience issues with publishing our posts and are working to rectifity the situation. We appreciate your patience and ongoing support.

TSN: Following the St. Louis Blues trading Jake Allen to the Montreal Canadiens, Frank Seravalli listed a number of goaltenders potentially available in the offseason.

Free-agent options include Vancouver’s Jacob Markstrom, Vegas’ Robin Lehner, Washington’s Braden Holtby, Dallas’ Anton Khudobin, the New York Islanders’ Thomas Greiss, Chicago’s Corey Crawford, Calgary’s Cam Talbot, Edmonton’s Mike Smith, Philadelphia’s Brian Elliott, Detroit’s Jimmy Howard, Anaheim’s Ryan Miller, and Ottawa’s Craig Anderson.

Possible trade chips include Pittsburgh’s Matt Murray, Vegas’ Marc-Andre Fleury, Toronto’s Frederik Andersen, the New York Rangers’ Henrik Lundqvist, Arizona’s Antti Raanta, and one of Columbus’ Joonas Korpisalo or Elvis Merzlikins.

Among the trade options, Seravalli reports the Penguins are believed to have an offer on the table for Murray. He speculates the Leafs, Oilers, Flames, Senators, Sabres and perhaps the Avalanche could become suitors.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: This summer could be a buyer’s market for goaltenders. Plenty of options to choose from here.

Of the UFAs, I believe Markstrom, Lehner and Crawford will re-sign with their current clubs. The Stars could stick with Khudobin as Ben Bishop’s backup depending on what he seeks in his next contract. The Flyers could bring back Elliott for another year backing up Carter Hart.

Holtby, Greiss and Talbot would be the best available options. However, finding new homes and lucrative deals could be difficult to come by depending on what happens in the trade market.

The trade candidates are a mixed bag. Andersen could be the best of the bunch. He catches a lot of flak from some Leafs fans over his playoff record, but he’s not to blame for his club’s porous defense. It’s to his credit he’s posted up the numbers he has given his heavy workload.

Murray has two Stanley Cups on his resume but he’s also struggled with injuries and consistency over the past couple of years. Raanta is an outstanding netminder when he’s healthy but he’s often sidelined.

Korpisalo and Merzlikins both played well this season, but are they truly ready for full-time starter’s work? Either guy could be a bit of a gamble.

Fleury turns 36 in November and his play during this season in part prompted the acquisition of Lehner at the trade deadline. Lundqvist is past his prime and carries an $8.5 million cap hit next season with a full no-movement clause. I doubt the Rangers will find many takers for King Henrik unless he waives his NMC and the Blueshirts pick up a healthy chunk of his cap space.

Smith, Howard, Miller and Anderson are well past their prime. Maybe Miller returns with the Ducks for one last season. Otherwise, he and the others could face retirement.

THE EDMONTON JOURNAL: David Staples cited Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman including goalie Darcy Kuemper among the Arizona Coyotes’ trade chips. Staples feels Kuemper would be worth pursuing by the Oilers if they can clear out some money on defense. The Coyotes are without a first-round pick in the 2020 Draft, leading Staples to wonder if it would be wise for the Oilers to give up a first-rounder when other goalies could be more affordable in contract and return.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Based on Kuemper’s performance this season, the Oilers should definitely look into acquiring him. I’m not saying they should overpay, but if what Kuemper did over the past two seasons is an indication of what lies ahead, he could be a big upgrade between the pipes in Edmonton. His performance in this year’s postseason will likely draw lots of interest from other clubs if the Coyotes shop him. As Friedman noted, however, that will depend upon what the next Coyotes’ GM wants to do.

THE ATHLETIC: James Mirtle examined the Leafs options to replace Andersen if they decide to trade him. While acknowledging there’s no guarantee they’ll move Andersen, Mirtle believes they have a legitimate interest in Robin Lehner and could be among the bidders for his services when he becomes a UFA.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Lehner will cost a lot more than the $5 million AAV the Leafs are paying Andersen for next season. He’s already making that much on a one-year deal. Yes, the flattened cap will have an effect upon Lehner’s next contract and those of his fellow pending UFAs. Nevertheless, I wouldn’t be surprised if he got offers between $6-$7 million annually on a four- or five-year deal. The Leafs will have to shed more payroll if they hope to land Lehner.

Kevin Kurz recently observed the San Jose Sharks need a goaltender to pair with or supplant starter Martin Jones. He wondered if Andersen might be a better fit with the Sharks, noting he played his first three NHL seasons in the Western Conference with the Anaheim Ducks. If the Carolina Hurricanes decide to pursue a top-flight netminder, perhaps the Sharks could bring back James Reimer. He likely wouldn’t cost much beyond a mid-round pick.










NHL Rumor Mill – September 3, 2020

NHL Rumor Mill – September 3, 2020

We’ve been dealing with a publishing problem since September 2. We’re working on the issue and hope to have it resolved soon. Here’s a brief look at the latest notable NHL trade rumors.

MURRAY AND ANDERSEN: TSN’s Darren Dreger believes Toronto Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas has had a lingering interest in Pittsburgh Penguins goaltender Matt Murray going back to their days with the OHL’s Soo Greyhounds. Dreger believes Penguins GM Jim Rutherford has an offer on the table that he would consider for Murray, but he doesn’t believe it’s from the Leafs. They would have to find a landing spot for current starter Frederik Andersen.

The Athletic’s Pierre Lebrun cited sources saying the Leafs have had some inquiries about Andersen, who has a 10-team no-trade list. However, he thinks some teams could consider the free-agent market before going the trade route.

TAYLOR HALL: Dreger reports the Arizona Coyotes are expected to make another offer to pending UFA winger Taylor Hall. It sounds like there was good discussion between Coyotes brass and Hall’s agent but the lure of free agency is tempting. The Coyotes search for a new GM could complicate things.

PATRIK LAINE: The Athletic’s Pierre LeBrun reports the Winnipeg Jets aren’t shopping Patrik Laine and he doesn’t think there’s a strong possibility the winger will be traded. Nevertheless, LeBrun suggested the Carolina Hurricanes as a possible trade partner because of their blueline depth. Just for fun, he proposed a package of Brett Pesce and Vincent Trocheck for Laine.

The Winnipeg Sun’s Scott Billeck is the latest Winnipeg pundit against the idea of the Jets trading Laine and Nikolaj Ehlers to address their blueline and second-line center needs.

ALEX PIETRANGELO: The Athletic’s Jeremy Rutherford reports the St. Louis Blues trading Jake Allen to Montreal yesterday could foreshadow the club’s effort to re-sign pending UFA Alex Pietrangelo. The Blues need to shed cap space to make it happen, but Rutherford cites league sources saying the two sides aren’t close to an extension and nothing is imminent.

BRUINS: ESPN.com’s Greg Wyshynski believes the Boston Bruins must decide if they’ll re-sign pending UFA defenseman Torey Krug. Both sides have said they’d like to work out an extension. Several of the Bruins’ stars are on cap-friendly deals, but Krug could get some big offers on the open market. He also feels the Bruins should take one last run at the Cup with their current core, but advocates more roster tinkering. They should also determine if goalie Tuukka Rask still intends to return for the final year of his contract.

NBC Sports Boston’s Joe Haggerty believes the Bruins could have a different look next season. He feels they must begin transitioning from their aging core toward a young one build around David Pastrnak and Charlie McAvoy, and they must get bigger up front.

HENRIK LUNDQVIST: New York Post’s Larry Brooks reports Rangers goalie Henrik Lundqvist has returned with his family to start the school year in New York. He has a year left on his contract. However, he faces an uncertain future with the Blueshirts as the club transitions toward young goalies Igor Shesterkin and Alexandar Georgiev. It’s unknown if he might retire or seek to continue his career with another NHL team.

MAX DOMI: The Hockey News’ Matt Larkin suggested the Buffalo Sabres, Minnesota Wild, Columbus Blue Jackets, Winnipeg Jets and San Jose Sharks as possible destinations for Max Domi if the Montreal Canadiens decide to trade him. Those clubs all need depth at center.

BLUES TRADE ALLEN TO MONTREAL: The St. Louis Blues traded goaltender Jake Allen and a seventh-round pick in 2022 to the Montreal Canadiens in exchange for two picks in the 2020 NHL Draft.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: The picks are the Washington Capitals third-rounder and the Chicago Blackhawks seventh-rounder.

Moving Allen wasn’t a surprise. The Blues must free up salary-cap space if they hope to re-sign captain Alex Pietrangelo and fellow defenseman Vince Dunn.

This deal sheds Allen’s $4.35-million cap hit for next season, giving the Blues $75.1 million invested in 20 players for 2020-21. That won’t be enough to re-sign both blueliners, assuming that’s the intent of Blues general manager Doug Armstrong. More moves could be coming.

The Canadiens, meanwhile, land a reliable backup for starter Carey Price. Allen, 30, had his struggles as a full-time starter in St. Louis but put up solid numbers backing up Jordan Binnington this season.

Allen is an unrestricted free agent at the end of 2020-21, so it’ll be interesting to see how well he fits in with Price. In the meantime, his presence should buy promising Cayden Primeau some time to develop his game with their AHL affiliate in Laval.

Acquiring Allen leaves the Canadiens with $67.4 million invested in 17 players. Depending on how things shake out with restricted free agent Max DomI, there’s enough room to make another significant addition or two.










NHL Rumor Mill – September 2, 2020

NHL Rumor Mill – September 2, 2020

A look at the latest TSN “Trade Bait” board in today’s NHL Rumor Mill.
TSN: Winnipeg Jets winger Patrik Laine is No. 5 on Frank Seravalli’s latest NHL ‘Trade Bait’ list. He believes Laine will be in play as the Jets explore options to address their depth on the blueline and at center. The 22-year-old sniper has a year left on his contract and will be due for a hefty raise next year over his $6.75-million annual average value.
Seravalli cautions Laine is not a lock to be traded, as the Jets could look at free agency to address their defensive needs. That could be challenging as few true standout players reach the market. He also suggested winger Nikolaj Ehlers could be a trade chip, listing him at No. 12.
The Carolina Hurricanes could be a trade partner with their depth in blueline talent. Seravalli considers Jaccob Slavin untouchable but placed Dougie Hamilton on the trade board (No. 20) because he’ll be an unrestricted free agent next year.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: The Winnipeg Sun’s Ted Wyman and Sportsnet’s Ken Wiebe aren’t keen on the notion of the Jets moving Laine or Ehlers. Wyman believes there isn’t a single center on Seravalli’s list worth trading for, suggesting the return for Laine should be massive. “Think Jack Eichel, if he wants out of Buffalo,” though Wyman acknowledged it would take more than Laine to pry Eichel away from the Sabres.
I wouldn’t fault Jets general manager Kevin Cheveldayoff for considering all his options, but you don’t move guys like Laine and Ehlers unless you’re doing a roster tear-down. I don’t believe Cheveldayoff is entertaining that option.
Pittsburgh Penguins goaltender Matt Murray tops Seravalli’s list, followed by Philadelphia Flyers winger James van Riemsdyk, Columbus Blue Jackets winger Josh Anderson, and Arizona Coyotes defenseman Oliver Ekman-Larsson.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Murray’s status has been well-documented. It’s expected he’ll be traded at some point in the offseason. Same for Anderson, who’s a restricted free agent with arbitration rights.
“JvR” has struggled this season under Flyers coach Alain Vigneault and managed just one goal thus far in the playoffs. He lacks no-trade protection but the 31-year-old winger carries a $7 million annual salary-cap hit for three more years.
Ekman-Larsson recently surfaced in the rumor mill when Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman reported the Coyotes would like to test their captain’s trade value. Arizona Coyotes insider Craig Morgan reports the club’s offseason plans are uncertain at this point because they don’t have a general manager yet. Steve Sullivan is filling in on an interim basis.
Morgan also points out Ekman-Larsson has a full no-movement clause and loves living in Arizona. Perhaps he might change his mind if the club decides on another rebuild. Morgan suggested the Edmonton Oilers and Toronto Maple Leafs as two clubs that need blueline help.
Flyers defenseman Shayne Gostisbehere, New Jersey Devils winger Kyle Palmieri, Montreal Canadiens center Max Domi, Vegas Golden Knights goaltender Marc-Andre Fleury and Penguins defenseman Kris Letang round out the top-10.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Gostisbehere, Domi and Fleury have also recently popped up in the rumor mill. The Ottawa Sun’s Don Brennan suggests the Senators take a run at acquiring Domi and reuniting him with former Coyotes teammate Anthony Duclair. What say you, Senators fans?
In a recent mailbag segment, The Athletic’s Corey Masisak was asked about Palmieri’s future. The 29-year-old winger becomes a UFA after next season. He’s said he wants to stay in New Jersey but Masisak felt dollars and term will determine if he has a long-term future with the Devils.
Letang was briefly mentioned as a trade option following the Penguins’ elimination last month from the playoff qualifying round. GM Jim Rutherford, however, insists he’s keeping his veteran core intact, and that includes Letang.
Hurricanes winger Ryan Dzingel. Blues defenseman Vince Dunn, Lightning winger Alex Killorn and Oilers blueliner Adam Larsson join Ehlers in the 11 to 15 spots. Seravalli suggests Dunn could be moved if the Blues re-sign Alex Pietrangelo, while Killorn could be among the options for the Lightning to clear cap room because of his limited no-trade clause.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Dzingel hasn’t been the same since getting traded by the Senators to the Blue Jackets at last season’s trade deadline. He has only 29 points this season after netting 56 with the Sens and Jackets in 2018-19.
Dunn could get moved if the Blues can’t free up sufficient cap space after re-signing Pietrangelo. The Lightning must re-sign Anthony Cirelli and Mikhail Sergachev so Killorn seems most likely to go. Larsson’s been mentioned as a trade chip to bring in a top-six winger. Sportsnet’s Brian Burke suggested he’d be a good fit with the Leafs.
Penguins center Jared McCann, Leafs forward Andreas Johnsson, Buffalo Sabres defenseman Rasmus Ristolainen, and Leafs goalie Frederik Anderson join Hamilton in spots 16-20.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: McCann, Johnsson, and Andersen have turned up in recent media trade chatter. I don’t see the Leafs moving Andersen unless it’s for an upgrade between the pipes.