NHL Rumor Mill – August 17, 2020
It’s been over a week since the Maple Leafs were eliminated from the postseason but speculation persists over their offseason plans. Check out the latest in today’s NHL rumor roundup.
SPORTSNET: Luke Fox reports Frederik Andersen could face an uncertain future with the Toronto Maple Leafs. He’ll become an unrestricted free agent next summer and his stats in elimination games aren’t that good.
Toronto Maple Leafs goaltender Frederik Andersen (NHL Images).
Nevertheless, Fox doesn’t think there’s a suitable replacement for Andersen in this year’s free-agent market. Braden Holtby and Corey Crawford are past their prime. If the Vancouver Canucks re-sign Jacob Markstrom, Vegas’ Robin Lehner would be the best available free-agent goalie and expensive to sign. Fox doesn’t think Calgary’s Cam Talbot, the NY Islanders’ Thomas Greiss, or Dallas’ Anton Khudobin would be suitable replacements.
Fox notes the Minnesota Wild, New York Rangers, and Pittsburgh Penguins appear open for goalie trades, but he’s not sure what they have to offer would be an improvement over Andersen.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: With over $76 million invested in 17 players, the Leafs lack sufficient cap space to chase expensive UFA talent without shedding some salary first. I agree with Fox’s assessment of this year’s crop of free-agent goalies.
What might be available in the trade market isn’t that tantalizing. The Wild could shop an aging Devan Dubnyk or career backup Alex Stalock. The Rangers could peddle Henrik Lundqvist (provided he waives his no-movement clause) but he’s also past his best-before date. Alexandar Georgiev is another Rangers’ option but he hasn’t established himself as an NHL starter. Recent speculation tied Penguins starter Matt Murray to the Leafs, but he’s struggled with injuries and consistency since backstopping the Pens to back-to-back Stanley Cups in 2016 and 2017.
I anticipate the Leafs will stick with Andersen for next season and see how things unfold. It’ll give them time to assess next season’s trade market and see if there are better options among next year’s free agents.
TORONTO STAR: In a recent mailbag segment, Kevin McGran was asked about the possibility of the Leafs trading winger William Nylander. McGran feels Leafs general manager Kyle Dubas doesn’t want to go that route, but the coming salary-cap crunch could leave him little choice. He considers Nylander their most tradeable commodity.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: It’ll take some nifty salary-cap gymnastics for Dubas and his capologist to address his club’s need to bolster the defense without parting with a significant asset. Nylander could be the best option to land that elusive top-pairing, right-side rearguard.
TORONTO SUN: Steve Simmons reports the Penguins are looking to shore up their roster and have asked questions about Leafs winger Kaspari Kapanen.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: To which the answer should be, we’re not moving him unless you offer up a good, young, right-side defenseman or skilled two-way center.
Simmons also proposed how the Leafs could sign defenseman Alex Pietrangelo if the St. Louis Blues captain tests the free-agent market.
“I take Cody Ceci’s $4.5 million — he’s a free agent — and add it with Tyson Barrie’s $2.5 million. Both should be leaving. Now you take $3 million from either Alex Kerfoot, Kasperi Kapanen or Andreas Johnsson and you’ve got $10 million to play with in a soft free-agent class, considering the economics of all of professional sport.”
SPECTOR’S NOTE: As per Cap Friendly, the Leafs have $76.9 million invested in 17 players next season, leaving roughly $4.5 million in cap space. That’s with Ceci and Barrie off the books. Dumping Kerfoot, Kapanen, or Johnsson would give the Leafs around $7.5 million to spend in the free-agent market.
Assuming Pietrangelo is willing to accept a modest pay bump from his current $6.5 million annual average value to come to Toronto (and honestly, why would he?), the Leafs would have no money left to re-sign other players (like Travis Dermott, Ilya Mikheyev, and perhaps Kyle Clifford) and fill out the rest of the roster.
Clearly, Simmons has no clue about cap structure and the fact sites like CapFriendly show each team’s pending cap situations WITHOUT factoring in upcoming UFAs and RFAs.
George,
Looks like Simmons is on the everybody to the Leafs train.
lol
“Clearly, Simmons has no clue”
You needn’t have gone any further.
LOL – I deliberately left that open Garth
Thank you for stating the obvious that Steve Simmons, in his boundless stupidity, did miss.
May I suggest that future comments from an arsehole such as him, the kind of ‘reporter’ that shares private health info, be treated as it deserves- ignored.
I may have mentioned this on here before, not sure.
I ran into Simmons in an elevator during Grey Cup week in Edm.
My wife and I were heading up to meet some friends that were in town and then head out for the festivities downtown.
I talk to people on elevators as I don’t get why people just stare straight ahead. I think it’s weird.
Just tried to make some small talk that may last the 15 seconds it takes to get to your floor, and asked the standard “so who’s gonna win?”
Ignored me. We were the only 3 people in the elevator.
My bad because he is a known sports guy? Rude on his part?
Confused in Edmonton.
Ray maybe he thought you were trying to set him up with your question.
He might of thought whatever answer I give him, he will retort with ” I disagree, your wrong”
Next time try Hi, how r you or hi I enjoy your work. (Even if you don’t)
Or he just could be rude.
Thanks Caper.
Perhaps I am over confident in my own likability.
Most hockey guys I have met have all been “normal” guys. Like to have a laugh as long as you don’t act strange around them .
George O, that would require the journalist to do their homework, a forgotten aspect in today’s media. It all about getting that “first” sound byte out there so that they get followers and build up momentum. In the end I can’t blame the journalists either, they are just caving to mass public sentiment. And I should be clear, not all journalists have forgotten how to do their trade, but there is a growing amount that have. Its a sorry state of affairs.
Realistically, and I stress realistically… how do the Leafs get out of this jam ? Adding someone like Pietrangelo is pretty much not happening.
Today they have to fill 5-6 spots with 4.5. They move Nylander and Kerfoot now they need 7-8 spots filled. Total of about 14.5 million to sign Pietrangelo and 6+ players?
IMO, forget about moving Nylander. That just makes it sound palatable to fans. In reality, they need to move Tavares , Marner or Mathews. The problem with THAT reality Is finding a taker that has that cap space without having to bring back a good chunk of money themselves.
What is your thoughts?
Tavares is un-tradeable (if that’s even a word) … how can you trade Austin Matthews? He’s a special player … but if I were a Maple Loaves fan I would be calling for a change of decision makers … Shanahan and especially Dubas who looks like he’s in way over his head … that blueline is putrid, even worse than Pittsburgh’s … Pieterangelo is another Toronto pipe dream, forget it … the UFA market is terribly weak this year so trading is the only answer … Columbus needs skill and the Loaves have it up front … try and pry Werenski away, Jones isn’t going anywhere …
@Nyr4life, I think you summarized the issue well, this was much debated on the “maple leaf” postings about a week ago. My only solution is trade Marner at his about $11 million for a decent dman at a much lower salary. That gives cap room and solves for defense. The problem is, everyone wants a cheap Dman, and taking on a slew of salary in Marner makes little sense in my opinion. I do not see a way other than trading Nylander of the four to get a decent Dman. Then again I am not a GM so perhaps Dubas will work some magic – I am just highly skeptical and think we will be having the same conversation at the end of next season – minus Dubas….
I don’t believe you move Tavares or Matthews. First lets just drop Matthews out of the equation, because he is in the top 5 of NHL players you don’t move that talent.
If you move Tavares who contract would be hard to move and Dubas would have to admit he made a mistake by signing him. Then who is your second line C? Unless you have someone who can step in and play 2nd line C you don’t move JT
Marner is a really nice player but he is a cerebral player and not a 30 or 40 goal scorer and for me that makes his contract to high.
Nylander is good value and would be easy to move and bring a good return.
Toronto doesn’t need to bring in a stud Dman, if they could get a dman like Brandon Carlo of Boston, who has limited upside for scoring but is big, fast, strong and smart and play against any teams number 1 line. Also wouldn’t cost a lot because of his limited scoring.
Here the thing even though Nylander at $6.9m is a good contract if i’m Boston I’m still not trading Carlo and his $2.85m contract, straight up or at all and the leaf would be realistic in saying we want more then just Carlo.
This could be just me but I value the play of Carlo and his salary which still won’t go up to much is way to valuable to give up. But if Toronto could find a Carlo then they be that much better for it.
Kevin and Caper – you both assess well there, and for the most part I agree. Where I deviate is in my ongoing contention that teams in the same position as the Leafs – i.e., needing to shed cap in order to re-sign key RFAs and perhaps a UFA they wish to keep – with so few teams capable of taking on significant hits, are going to have to concentrate first and foremost on simply clearing the space. In other words, decent cap hits with term to teams able to take them on for nothing more than picks and prospects in return – commodities that won’t impact their cap right away.
Pure hockey trades – position needed for position needed money in money out will probably happen to solve that issue, but there won’t be many and even when they’re concluded that still doesn’t solve the issue of needing space.
Again, I say the 6 or 7 teams that have space will be limited as to what they can bring in simply because all of them have their own RFAs/UFAs upcoming they’d like to keep – and that will whittle down what they have on hand.
So it’s in their best interest to just sit back and wait for the best offers to come in from the cap-strapped teams, which will become better and better as deadlines near and they begin to panic. Which they will. For the limited cap-rich this is a buyer’s market like never before and they no longer need to take on albatross deals just to get a pick from a top team that would likely be well down the list.
No matter what road they choose, they pretty much have to admit a mistake. Is trading Tavares vs trading Nylander, who they not only mishandled…. but publicly stated “as long as I’m (Dubas) here Nylander won’t be traded” not having to admit a mistake?
IMO, it actually looks worse.
I did say it would be an issue finding a team with cap space. Probably near impossible given the current cap freeze without taking back a good chunk of the 11 million.
I’m not sure Nylander lands the type of dman Toronto will be seeking on his own. And as mentioned above, I think Toronto needs to shed more (without moving more roster players) than Nylanders 6.96 cap space.
Dubas appears to have cornered himself. To put it politely. My guess is that he has to move a large contract. I know, its not palatable for the faithful, but never the less. For all the obvious reasons. Tavares would be difficult to move, both politically and logistically (in my opinion). So its either Matthews or Marner. Nylander will be kept, due to his lower cap and his improving game and should be utilized at center. Marner will be less palatable at that cap hit, whereas teams will line up to take Matthews even with the ridiculous salary. His youth, size, promise and skill set will be too much for half the GM’s to ignore. In return, they could get a princes ransom in return. Potentially a top D-man, a great prospect and a good draft choice (minimum). I am not a Leafs fan, although I do like the team, and I still fell that a couple of key acquisitions will put this team over the top.
They get away with it by trading the future for now. That’s how Pens got into the corner they have painted themselves into, trade away draft picks the future for winning today, even shows more with San Jose trading and signing Karlsson for that monster of a contact and then tanking. TML have zero balance, they have too many dollars tied up in a few players. Somewhere along the line they will have to give up a high priced player and take back only picks and prospects, otherwise they will be just a one dimensional run and gun team with the ghost of Jake Gardiner back on defense.
Nyr4life… I agree pretty much 100% Toronto is in a worse pickle than the Penguins with cap issues (4 LARGE CONTRACTS) and players hard to move.
I think Anderson is gone.. A terrific goalie but he always seems to give up that one shaky goal each game and they haven’t won for years with him
I think Nylander is gone, he is talented, but too soft, and residents of the long previous contract stalemate remains…..he goes
I Think Tavares should go to….again like you said tough contract to move but there are some teams that would like him.
They need to build around these 4 Matthew Mariner Reily Muzzin.. These guys all play hard and Matthews really showed good compete level and tenacity…..unlike previous years..
thoughts?
There are probably a bunch of teams that would “like” Tavares … but name just one that you could see fitting him in cap-wise for another 5 years? That just is not going to happen in this flat-cap era which will likely be around for at least 2 more seasons.
The pandemic is only going to get worse. Here in Canada we’ve just learned that the Canadian Football League will not play at all for the first time since 1919. They probably won’t be able to next year either since they are primarily gate-driven and the government refused any financial loan. Indeed, this could be the death-knell for the league. Major Junior hockey – THE main NHL feeder – can’t function without a live gate either since what they receive from TV coverage is peanuts which wouldn’t even cover travel costs, and with the border closed indefinitely and Covid showing no signs of dissipating in the U.S. means a bunch of teams in the OHL and WHL have no league in which to play.
George come on man, you think you’re GM wouldn’t make room for either J.T., MM, or AM? I bet any GM would, like who wouldn’t add top ten talent to your team. How did SJ fit Karlsson? If there s a will there’s a way.
Ron, of course they would. That is NOT what I’ve been saying. What I keep trying to get across is that there are some 21 teams that MUST shed cap just to re-sign their key RFAs and a UFA they’d probably like to keep (e.g. Pietrangelo in St. Loo) and that there are only 7 with sufficient free cap to take on significant hits.
The problem with a Tavares, Matthews and Marner is that, in order to take any of them on, one of those 21 cap-strapped teams would need to shed the space to do that PLUS shed even more to re-sign their RFAs and a UFA they’d want to retain.
Where does all this cap money go? Even the 7 cap-rich are limited in what they can take on since they, too, have the same RFA/UFA situation. With the flat-cap it’s reached the saturation point and I believe there are going to be more UFAs without jobs this time around than ever before, and even some RFAs are going to find that the increases they expect to get just aren’t there.
On a soft team they need Clifford. But even he will want a couple . Stay with Anderson . The only solution is youth . Unfortunately that doesn’t work on the backend. To which I think they can only afford to add one veteran at about 4m
Next summer they have to resign Zach Hyman, the very type of player they so desperate need. What is his next cap hit gonna be worth???
Also next summer Freddie Anderson, needs to be resigned.
I believe most of Freddie’s problems lies in the lack of D his has in front of him.
The following summer Reilly is due for a new contract.
All of those contracts must factor into any decision made this summer by the Leaf brain trust.
My rap name in high school was busta Hyman. True fact.
How many?
A whooping zero! I’m pretty sure my wife wasn’t number one.
They had some sandpaper in Nazem Kadri but they chose to zero in on him as the reason they lost out two years in a row in the opening series and so sent him packing along with Rosen to Colorado for Barrie, Kerfoot and a 6th round pick this year.
Now, with Kadri up to 3 goals so far with 2 this afternoon, they’re parting ways with Barrie leaving them with Kerfoot and the 6th rounder.
They did get Rosen back for Hutchinson but he’s shown no signs he’s ready for prime time.
“They had some sandpaper in Nazem Kadri but they chose to zero in on him as the reason they lost out two years in a row in the opening series and so sent him packing ”
LOL another classic George. I recall seeing that drivel on here.
Ron, get another layer of skin. Every team – and I mean EVERY team – has left themselves open for criticism somewhere along the line.
If Shanahan and his GMs knew what they were doing over the past 6 years you’d think they might have won at least one series in that span (never mind not one in 16 years)
Question: I read a report that Edmonton doesn’t plan on qualifying Athanasiou but are hoping to resign him.
Would you resign with the team that just said to you “we like you but you’re not worth your money, we want to give you less.”
Nope.
Holland – at one time – liked him enough to give up two 2nd round picks. Now they don’t think he’s worth even what he was getting after what? 16 games? Hell, it often takes a player at least half that just to get acclimatized to his new surroundings.
Holland is going to look pretty stupid when Yzerman makes those two picks this year and next.
George O,
Detroit, Arizona (improving) Buffalo (could make it happen) San jose (can clear some contracts) could use him (they are looking at moving burns or karlsson) Anaheim has cap space they need a number one center…there are places George!!!
Sure
There was a pandemic , changes everything in this case .ray bark had it right.
I’m sure holland fully prepared to qualify AA when making the move for two picks, those cap projections and plans can now be scrapped with the new flat cap. Don’t chase a deal that didn’t pan out with a signing to save face . Every gm will feel the covid effects differently , don’t compound the problem.
Who do you see offering him 3.3 million off his last two seasons ?
No way Holland qualifies him, if another gm wants to overpay , let them , if that doesn’t happen then Holland can circle back and try to get him for less.
Unlikely he comes back, I agree , but not impossible.
Re Simmons
“ “I take Cody Ceci’s $4.5 million — he’s a free agent — and add it with Tyson Barrie’s $2.5 million. Both should be leaving. Now you take $3 million from either Alex Kerfoot, Kasperi Kapanen or Andreas Johnsson and you’ve got $10 million to play with in a soft free-agent class, considering the economics of all of professional sport.”
Right now… $4.5 M to sign 6 spots
Take Simmons treatment above…. moving one of Kappy; Kerfoot or Johnnsson … now $7.5 M to sign 7 …. and Simmons is saying one is Petro??
So completely with you on this Lyle… ain’t not happenen’ like that
Re McGran
“ He considers Nylander their most tradeable commodity.”
…. absolutely concur
He’s owed $2.5 M cash next year and basically a cash AAV of $5M per for balance of term
Yes he is the most tradeable
WW for a young ( 22-25) top 3 D (now or trending towards) that has term …. and at least $2M less in Cap
Leafs then improve D… raise space ; and now instead of $4.5 M to sign 6 spots (all would have to be league min) there is at least $6.5 M in room (for 6) … doable
Andreas Athanasiou is the type of player I can see Marc Bergevin taking a flier on.
Fleet of foot, can you imagine having him, not only on the same team, but possibly the same line as Paul Byron. Playing a bottom six forward position, both of them on the ice at the same time would give the opposing D pairings something to be very aware of & keep them backed off.
I can see Dorion taking a flyer on him as well if Holland walks away from his arbitration settlement.
Gorge shut up.
LOL. OK Kaz. But he done weirder things.
George O.
– Anaheim, Ottawa, Detroit, Arizona, New Jersey Devils all teams that have a lot of cap space.
Teams like Buffalo, San Jose can clear space (sharks looking at moving Burns /or karlsson/ and Martin jones goalie)
You don’t think the LA kings could package something for him..
Don’t think Coach Tortorella of the Blue Jackets wouldn’t want a goal scorer in his defensive Laden line up first. They could package one of their terrific goalies + to land him
Cmon George O your better than that and hopefully more creative….LOL
In the midst of the pandemic which you have pointed out the different effects on cap and dollars , you think Ottawa would be wise to give this guy a raise at this time?
He’s terrible in a Bottom 6 role , if he’s not scoring he’s not doing much of anything , no pk, terrible defensively. I honestly don’t see any team playing him 3+
Not at $3 mil I wouldn’t. Not a chance. But I see him choosing arbitration and if Holland doesn’t like the decision he walks away. In that event he CAN’T then sign him at a lower number. But another team – like Ottawa – could and who knows, he might just go there at around $1.5 on a show-men short-term deal if he believes in himself and is determined to show everybody they were wrong. Like Duclair did. Nothing ventured – nothing gained.
So you wouldn’t at 3 million , no chance, but you feel Holland will look stupid if he doesn’t extend a 3.3 million qualifying offer?
Again , the pandemic has changed this situation drastically, and he will not be alone. What numbers were going to work or be options at 84-88 cap have to be changed to fit the new flat cap . Overpaying to save face would be a terrible way to start that process
Why I used the term “stupid” is because he gave up 2 2nd round pick to get him – a player he clearly knew and liked since he drafted him for Detroit back in 2012 – and obviously knew that his cap hgit was $3 mil per – and then gives him a whopping 13 games – just 9 in this shorted regular season, to wow everybody??
Could the Oilers use those two picks heading forward??
Give me a freaking break.
Detroit also took the Gagner contract back which increased the cost a little bit.
Agree George, he gave up quite a bit if it was just a playoff rental so I don’t think that was the intent.
My only argument, and from reading Craig’s post, his argument as well – is that it didn’t work out so now what?
Qualifying him at $3M would make it two bad decisions instead of one. And now Holland knows the cap is flat, he didn’t before.
Admit the mistake (every GM makes them, even Yzerman whose previous team has to deal with), and move on.
I give him credit for doing that as many don’t.
And Holland was suppose to predict the pandemic and the flat cap that came with it ? After hearing Gary confirm the 84-88?
Of course they could use those picks back , but offering AA 3.3 million will not return them.
Give me a break .
If this is the covid pill he has to swallow , so be it , dont compound the problem to save face . Ever.
Without the pandemic and cap outlook immediate change I would agree all day, If your giving up two seconds, you best be sure you follow it up with a qualifying offer or signing, this is not normal circumstance.
Craig, I still don’t think 9 games was enough to come to a conclusion – not after just dealing for him – that he has nothing to offer or can’t improve. Had he played a full – or near full – season for them and still showed no signs of getting any better, then, yeah, maybe.
The thing here is, if Holland walks away from an arbiter’s award and some team gets him on a minimal show-me one year deal, that will raise some eyebrows in Edmonton. After all this is the same guy that gradually built Detroit into a doormat.
It doesn’t ever get to arbitration because ken won’t offer 3 million plus 10 percent . Like you said, not a chance . It has a lot more to do with the new cap outlook than it does the 9 games . Holland knows him better than the 9 game sample from Detroit . I just think with flat cap , every cap dollar counts, can’t afford to offer that QA. Like ray bark said , hard to imagine anyone offering him the qualifying amount . If that holds true holland can offer a deal at less than QA if he doesn’t like the open market offers from around the league. Which is why I see a return unlikely , but not near as unlikely as holland offering the QA.
I have no idea what AA is looking for, but if it is an opportunity to reboot his career and make some real $$ on his next contract, there are worse places than Edmonton to do that.
They need top 6 wingers, they have 2 elite C’s.
The rest would be up to AA.
Don’t know the guy, just throwing it out there.
Regarding Detroit now sucking – it isn’t the first team and won’t be the last to have long term success, draft late, trade young assets at the deadline to try and win now. And then have to tear it down and start over.
Det actually hung around the top longer than most.
Holland was there for over 30 years. 1 cup as asst GM and 3 as GM, as well as many years in scouting to help build that team.
HOF career IMO.
Oil were lucky he became available when they needed a guy.
Clearly, Craig, I don’t have a handle on the arbitration process – you say if won’t get to arbitration since Holland won’t offer $3 mil + 10 %. Is that the criteria for an arbiter? I just figured if he and his agent are offered, for example, a $1 mil deal take it or leave it they would automatically say no and choose to let an arbiter decide. If he/she awarded something Holland didn’t want any part of and walks away, Athanasiou becomes a UFA and in those circumstances he couldn’t re-sign with Edmonton. Have I been looking at that aspect all wrong?
The qualifying offer has to be 3 million, I read plus 10 percent sonewhere but further digging I only see 100%.
To get to arbitration holland would have to offer 3 million and have AA reject that in hopes an arbitrator rules in his favour , he would accept the QA in my opinion . Which is why I can’t imagine ken making that offer.
By not qualifying him he will be free to test the market , if no one is coming close to the 3 million ken could circle back to try to resign for less. Unlikely, but possible
Not splitting the atom here- Seth Jones imo best d man in the league. Jones/Werenski very good duo. Not for sale!
Seems like Mr Simmons failed Cap Math 101.
Grade 8 math more likely
Sports “journalists” like Simmons, Kypreos and Brooks pretty much create their own scenarios, throw them at the wall and hope something sticks.
Then they can call themselves a hockey “insider”.
Anybody else find the Flyers vs Canadiens game beyond boring? Like they were skating in sand?
Gm 1: Hart > Price
Gm 2: Price > Hart
Gm 3: Hart > Price
Mentioned other day. Saw a rumor on Florida blog. Ekblad for Marner. Gives Leafs a solid, young top pair right d. Frees up about 3 mil in cap. For Florida, creates a hole on defense, but,… they can allow Hoffman and Dadinov to walk by adding dynamic young winger. They also have a few forward prospects drafted very high that should be ready. Aquired collegiate stud Priskie who had a very good year in AHL and can help fill Ekblads spot. Look for bargains in ufa market to fill other spots.
Agree on this point, you have two sets of fans – trade Nylander and trade Marner:
Matthews is a non starter and if Leafs did that could you imagine the riots.
Tavares is your veteran and does a lot with faceoffs and has scoring touch still at his age. Regardless, no trade clause – why would he move it to leave his home – for which he turned down more money in San Jose.
I am of the belief they will trade Nylander – however, I wish it was Marner for the fact his money hit is gone and frees up a lot of options. For the camp against trading Marner – remember Kapanen scored 20 on Matthews line before Nylander returned.
I am a big Kapanen fan and they mis-use him constantly – no wonder he is not producing.
Put him with Matthews and Hyman and we will be forgetting who Marner is once we look at our defence we rebuilt with Marner money.
However, is Dubas the guy to do it lol!!!!
OK Bottom Line … fair enough. But as I keep asking when Marner’s name comes up as the player to trade … trade him WHERE? Show us one team that you think could manipulate their existing roster to take on an almost $11 million cap hit. Just One.
George – you are very correct. We can all sit here and say what should happen – we have to sit back and look at the situation realistically.
Would have to be money in and money out – I agree it is not likely. I guess we live in a “blue” sky world sometimes.
I never said Marner is not a great player or we should trade him. Given a perfect world I would – for what his deal would do.
I tend to think your saying Nylander cap easier to digest for other cash strapped teams.
In essence, yes. From my oft-stated viewpoint, a Nylander trade to a cap-rich team would be for one purpose and one purpose only – to free up the cap space needed to re-sign his 4 RFAs (Mikheyev, Malgin, Gauthier, Dermott) and one UFA (Clifford) who, collectively, accounted for $4,013,333 off the cap this season.
They figure to come in next season at a collective closer to $7 mil, with Dermott getting the biggest boost followed by Mikheyev. That, combined with Nylander’s $6,962,366 would give Dubas $10,975,699 with would cover that and leave him with close to $4 mil to spend on a D upgrade.
Obviously, what they’d get back for Nylander could only be picks/prospects that would not impact their cap for the foreseeable future.
A Marner and his close to $11 mil hit would have to involve a huge cap hit coming back because not even the cap rich teams could accommodate that without freeing up space of their own.
The only alternative to Nylander would mean two players whose combined hits matrch or almost match his – e.g. Johnsson and Kapanen – and that would just create two other key roster spots they’d need to fill. Do you think there any Marlies F ready to step in and replace those two at minimal cost and do the same job?
Goerge O – agree no I would move Nylander before Kap and John – more Kap I would keep because I think he can play alongside Matthews.
It’s a mess for sure!!!
Dermott and Clifford are my main targets.
Mekka hiney ho – give him 1 more year see what he can do.
I agree, of the top 4 salaries, Nylander is the easiest to move. By the way Tavares has a no-movement clause, so that anchor is strapped on the Leafs neck for 5 years.
A D man I’d like to see the Leafs acquire is Josh Manson, Anaheim. 28 years old, a stay at home D man, 6’3″ 224 pounds.
I have zero trust in Dubas as a GM in putting together a playoff roster, right now they have a good regular season roster. Overall they are too one dimensional, small & too soft for the playoffs.
Leafs off season needs include 2-3 defencemen with the emphasis on defence. 2-3 forwards with skill but grit as well, the ability and willingness to do the dirty work in the corners and defensive zone.
A head coach that can teach defensive hockey and the testicular fortitude to bench those that dont comply.
A general manager that understands the NHL playoffs are not the Ice Capades or glorified pond hockey.
A team president with an actually workable plan instead of a Shanascam.
Clear these simple issues up and the Leafs are good to go.
Re Simmons
“ reports the Penguins are looking to shore up their roster and have asked questions about Leafs winger Kaspari Kapanen.“
My two fav teams and I like Kappy… so him on Pens I’m certainly good with
Then Lyle’s response
“ To which the answer should be, we’re not moving him unless you offer up a good, young, right-side defenseman or skilled two-way center.”
Bang on Lyle….. 100 %
…. Marino for Kappy straight up isn’t happening unless Jimbo has a UFA move up his sleeve for another 2nd pairing RHD; even then Leafs would need to add me thinks
skilled 2 way centre….. Pens have but one… nope
I can’t fathom a successful Leaf/Pens deal that includes Kappy. If Dubas trying to free up space; so are Pens; picks alone (Pens prospect cupboard is bare) for Kappy…. nope not happening
Now if Jimbo is again delusional and somehow talking inclusion of JJ (that would kill me for a second but Leafs have buckets of money to buy him out)…. so the only way is Marino and JJ for Kappy and Dermott; with Leafs immediately buying out JJ. Might need an extra
Leafs pre trade … $4.5 M to sign 6; post trade and buyout… $5.6 M to sign 6; flipped mid 6 winger; bottom pairing RFA LHD; for top 2 RHD under contract
Pens net $1M in Cap space ; net a fast mid 6 winger; but now have to sign Dermott…. Holl got $2M ( 👎) so Dermott will need more…. the net effect on Pens would likely be crimping a further $1.5 M in Cap space ; improving the offence; but giving up an excellent young RHD 2nd pairing to rid the horrific JJ and replace JJ with younger; speedier ; far superior Dermott…. but still need 2nd pairing RHD. Pens bottom pair huge lift; mid 6 big lift; but lacking 2nd pairing RHD…. that is likely only filled via UFA… who
…. summary… Kappy on Pens….. methinks not
Pengy–Black and Gold here I hope you are staying safe.
Quick note Malkin had elbow surgery today he is out three to five weeks..
Everyone is dumping dirt on the Penguins and this is a retool not a rebuild.
Players gone: letting them walk/trade/buyout/release long term injury list
Schultz $5.5 M
Sheary $3.5 M
Murray $3.75 M
Bjugstad $4.1 M
Simon $850,000
ZAReese $ 1.0 M
What do we need
To rebuild the defense with defensive depth, grit, and skill. We don’t have Ian Cole, Ron Hainsey or Trevor Daley anymore to roll out there on top of Schultz Letang and Dumo like 2016-2017
UFA –
Signing defenseman T.J. Brodie 30, a lefthanded shot playing with Calgary. This guys is a perfect fit for the Penguins up temp, move the puck quick, mobile skating defense. He is making $4.6 and is a UFA. Give him the Schultz money (he was at $5.5) SAY three years $16.5!! He scored a beautiful slapshot goal the other night vs Dallas. When is the last time you can remember a Penguins defenseman scoring from the point.?? LOL
Now you have Letang – Dumo Marino-Brodie our top 4 is a lot better. You have a left righty combos in your top 4, you are replacing Schultz with Brodie….who is better all around defenseman. Pettersson can go to third pair where he belongs with maybe young Pierre Oliver Joseph or a free agent a Radko Gudas type. physical right handed d-man
– A 3rd line center
UFA Center Eric Haula 28, He is a valuable two way player. He is a fast, skilled, two way player that fits what we need. Goal totals the last 4 years 15, 15, 29, 12 pretty consistent. He is affordable, he was making $2.5 million, is a UFA, and we can move MCCann to wing where he is stronger. Can you imagine a third line of Haula, Mccann, and Tanev could be the fastest line in hockey. (all three can fly)
Or second option a trade with Carolina we kill two birds with one stone. we get a young lefthanded top 4 d-man and a third line center.
To Pittsburgh:
– Center Vincent Trocheck, 27, He is signed through 2022 at a $4.7 cap hit, he is a Pittsburgh born boy/native, slick playmaker, good shot. strong skater, his goal totals over the last 5 years 25, 23, 31, 12, 10 so he can score.
-Defenseman Hayden Fluery, 24. $850,000-lefthanded shot. He has size, hits, grit, skilled, a good skater, a good passer. Fluery is talented and scored a great goal versus Bruins the other night.
Pending RFA
Carolina is loaded on defense with Brett Pesche, Doug Hamilton, Jacob Slavin, Jake Garidner, Sammy Vatanen, Joel Edmundson, Brandon Skeji…After these playoffs who knows if he keeps playing well he may not be available. LOL Team injuries to Hamilton and Pesche got him in the line-up and now top 4
To Carolina;
– Goalie Matt Murray 26. $3.75 M, talented, young, 2 time Stanley cup champion. The Hurricanes definitely need a number one goalie because Reimer and Mirasnek are not it. Murray will be cheaper than Holtby, Crawford, Lehner and the other UFA goalies. pending RFA
– Center/Wing Jared Mccann 23. $1.25 pending RFA A highly skilled, fast, versatile player who fits in to the up tempo style that Carolina plays.
– A second round draft pick
money is almost identical…thoughts
Don’t forget the “draft and develop” part of the Toronto situation:
They have two young defence men, Sandin (20) and Liljegren (21), both on their ELC’s who are ready to play in the NHL.
In addition, the Leafs signed Mikko Lehtonen (26) who had an excellent career in Europe before signing with Toronto.
For next season at least, the Leafs have seven or eight defence men who can do the job.
They also have forwards like Mikheyev, Arabamov, Petan and Robertson who can make the decision to trade Johnsson and/or Kapanen somewhat more palatable.
It is not all doom and gloom for Leaf fans. And the Leafs’ top competitors, TB and Boston, have problems of their own:
Who’s in net for the Bruins next year? Can they re-sign Krug? How much more can they expect from Chara? Three of their top forwards – Krecji, Bergeron and Marchand are 34, 35 and 32 respectively. What’s left in the tank for those guys?
Meanwhile the Bolts have every bit as much a cap problem as the Leafs – eight players to sign to fill the roster and $5.3 million to do it.
I’ll be interested to see the offseason moves by all three teams.
Marner – I know there is some sentiment about moving him. I just looked at Cap Friendly, and in this new environment I do not see any team with cap room taking him on. His actual cash paid for next season is $15 million, his cap hit is still $10.9 million. He becomes a “bargain” in 21-22 when his actual salary is around about $8 million for rest of contract life, but his cap hit is still $10.9 million. So in this economic environment its not just the cap hit, but actual dollars out the door. I believe Pengy or George O have been trying to say this, but I just did not get it until now.
I’m not nearly familiar with the Leaf’s roster and farm system as you Leaf fans, but the general consensus I read here is that they need at least one, preferably two right side top pair d-men. So, let’s reverse engineer. Who are the rh d-men who make $4.5M or less or are RFAs that could, in theory at least, be trade options? Carlo, Deangelo, Gudbranson, Jensen, Larsson, Manson, Marino, C. Miller, Montour, Murphy, Pesce, Savard, Severson. Of those, Deangelo, Gudbranson, Larsson, C. Miller, Montour, and Savard are the only ones that IMHO could be available. IMHO only Deangelo and Larsson might be suitable for top pair minutes. And both of them are really better suited as 2nd pair guys.
The realistic UFA options are Bogosian, Demelo, Hamonic, K. Miller, Pysyk, Rutta, Schultz, Tanev, Vatanen. Again, a bunch of second and third pair guys.
Maybe some left shot guy better fits the bill? I suggested Kapanen for Zadorov a few days back. Just spitballing.
Pietrangelo as a Leaf is an absolute pipe dream.
I concur with several other’s thoughts from above that in a flat cap world Marner is not going anywhere. Simple math.
Dubas has his work cut out for him.
U dont need any grit in this shinny league of no hits no fights no intimidation. Leafs cant waste another season with Andersen. Georgiev may be unproven but Andersen is proven, a proven loser when it counts. I’d take my chances with him. Maybe kerfoot for georgiev and Andersen to flames with Gauthier or Brooks for Bennett.
Zadorov for Kapanen is interesting Cliff, but the Leafs need to shed $$, and only have Holl coming back as a RD. Which is crazy.
Avs have the room for a Nylander and some extra scoring on the 2nd line wouldn’t hurt, but they have Burakovsky now who seems to be doing pretty good in COL.
BUF could you a guy like Nylander, and have RD depth like Montour, but not sure they want to spend during the crunch. Plus gotta pay Dahlin in a couple years. The Skinner deal smells already.
Your right about Dubas having his work cut out.
“Clearly, Simmons has no clue”
You needn’t have gone any further.
Iv’e been wanting to say this for a long time – and Im just a kid but I would do Marner or perhaps Nylander for Parayko or Bertuzi from the St. Louis Blues.
Im also glad to hear that Cici and Barrie are free agents because Cici is a complete WRECK on the Leafs. And Barrie just isn’t the kind of d-man the Leafs need. We need a grinder.